FUENTE , Appology!
Now that we see what responsible recruiting of Virginia Is can we now acknowledge what a total incompetent recruiting strategy FuENTE had.
I am at an utter loss to believe how he cloud think he was doing the right thing. He should never be given a head coaching job again.
I defended that moron for years. I apologize to you all for my incompetence and inability to recognize how truely aweful he was at the job.
(yes its Uncle Hecklin and yes it has been years since I last posted)
162 Replies
He's a good OC and Group of Coach but was over his head as HC here
(In response to this post by Hecklin)
Crazy how things sometimes play out. We thought we hit the lottery with Fu
But to your point... yes just because a coach is good at X's & O's... he still has to surround himself with the right people, have the right vision and be able to sell that vision.... among other things.
No need to hate on the man now. He's long gone. I personally wish him well.
(In response to this post by Hecklin)
Everything looked great with the hire
Just didn't work out in the end.
(In response to this post by AirForceHokie77)
G
GOHOKEE
2y
Fuente gets a bad wrap to a degree. He was who he was though and didn’t represent himself differently. The Athletic Department failed in screening him and his plan when it came to vetting coaching philosophy, staffing, recruiting plan, etc. and how it fit at Tech. That combined with Athletic Department complacency, no vision and lack of appreciation of what modern college football had become. Tech Athletic Department had simply become too comfortable and insulated over the years. As far as the optics at the time of the Fuente hire, just because everybody from the outside lauded him as a great hire doesn’t absolve those within the AD/university from evaluating proper fit with the program, school, and culture. They failed.
(apologies AF77, meant to post this under original message )
** Edited by GOHOKEE at 6/27/2024, 9:10:21 AM
(In response to this post by AirForceHokie77)
No problem. Good post. Thanks
(In response to this post by GOHOKEE)
2y
But he had no business running a P5 program. He was a good X's and O's coach during his time doing that, but he had no strategy for recruiting, among other things.
(In response to this post by Hecklin)
2y
Was a presentation on how an athlete can market himself. As usual VT was late to the party and short sighted.
That said, he probably couldn't put a team together with a $20M budget to buy players with. Or, if he got em here they would promptly hate him and leave.
(In response to this post by Hecklin)
2y
Had he received the things he asked for.
Well, he got $10M…that was his priority, so the other things that he requested were on the back burner since he sucked the oxygen out if the AD football budget.
Can’t believe some are still sticking up for this guy … he wrecked the program… end of story.
(In response to this post by Hecklin)
Haha...uhh...he didn't get the buyout until after he left.
It had nothing to do with the football budget while he was head coach. And that still didn't stop the athletic department from increasing Pry's budget to a lot more than Fuente's was even while paying Fuente's buyout (which was $8.75 million, not $10 million, FYI...he agreed to take less than his contract promised, which he didn't have to do). They money was there...or at least it would have been there if they had started the Football Enhancement Fund earlier.
(In response to this post by VPI63)
2y
You know, like taking the cash value of the lottery payout.
That’s why he didn’t get the full $10M, but it was on the books and couldn’t be spent for anything else.
BTW, how does this compare with Pry’s buyout?
You and some others have a selective memory … this guy absolutely destroyed a half way decent football program … now you can blame it on this or that but he was in charge and if he wanted those changes so bad, he could have done what Beamer did and threaten to leave … but he couldn’t because no one wanted him as a head coach and apparently still don’t.
Good family man but not head coach material 🤔
Now one could make a good case that the structure of the football program was inflexible because Whit was solely focused on Olympic sports and just let FU do his thing until it was too late.
Whatever the case, it became a dumpster fire at the end and we had to start from scratch. 😵💫
** Edited by VPI63 at 6/28/2024, 5:43:24 AM
** Edited by VPI63 at 6/28/2024, 5:52:04 AM
(In response to this post by Chris Coleman)
2y
With him & didn’t really get upset until he “threatened to leave” for Baylor…which kick started the FEF. Fans were upset then because of “lack of loyalty” JUST because he was looking?!
He’s gone now but he did NOT “destroy” our football program. Let it go. We’re better off now BECAUSE he was here AND because he’s now gone & left Pry with better resources for a rebuild. Remember the bowl eligibility streak would’ve still been intact if not for Covid. I still don’t blame anyone affiliated for deciding not to go to a bowl that year which would’ve been a road game in isolation in an empty stadium without bowl week activities while taking Covid tests daily.
Facts are hard for people to remember I see.
Yes other facts include a loss of fan & alumni interest/trust as well as poor recruiting relationships in state. Those are good reasons for the departure, but his tenure didn’t “destroy” us…we’re in much better financial position to compete now because of the curtains he pulled back.
(In response to this post by VPI63)
2y
Build a statue of him and put it next to Beamer’s.
Good grief! 😵💫
(In response to this post by hokiepro)
2y
I don’t think he should still be our coach by any stretch
I also don’t think he was the worst thing that happened to our program ever either. There’s a WIDE gap in between
(In response to this post by VPI63)
2y
and if it wasn’t for him, Pry wouldn’t have a chance to succeed. 🙄
Here’’s the deal:
Long before he tried to get the job at Baylor, there were rumors that he wanted to get back to OK, TX and that was because he stopped recruiting VA and recruited TX.
I was sick to death of him since that ODU game and it really makes me just a little upset that you guys are trying to rehabilitate him.
Fact: He left Pry with a dumpster fire.
End of story!
(In response to this post by hokiepro)
2y
He’s gone
Our program is in better shape now 1) because Fuente helped get the funding going and 2) because he’s not here and Pry’s the right fit
The incessant need to bury the guy and make him out to be the devil is a bit much
(In response to this post by VPI63)
Actually, he did threaten to leave.
He interviewed with Baylor, and the result of that was the start of the Football Enhancement Fund, which is an extra $12.5 million from big donors matched by another $12.5 million from the university. That's the main reason why the "revenue" of the athletic department has grown by about $25-30 million over the last three years. It was a direct response to almost losing a football coach to Baylor. That dalliance scared Whit Babcock into action. As a result, Pry now has a lot more money to spend on staff than Fuente ever had.
(In response to this post by VPI63)
2y
(In response to this post by Chris Coleman)
2y
(In response to this post by TomTurkey)
2y
(In response to this post by NokieHokie)
2y
(In response to this post by NokieHokie)
2y
(In response to this post by TomTurkey)
2y
(In response to this post by NokieHokie)
2y
The man quit before the end of the year—he didn’t do that out of the goodness of his heart, he was mad that Whit wouldn’t guarantee that he’d be back the following year, even though any sane person would be able to see that he didn’t deserve it. Tech could’ve played hardball and told him to finish the season or get nothing.
Are you related to Fuente or something?
(In response to this post by Chris Coleman)
2y
Because he’s not winning enough
He left when he did for his family
(In response to this post by Planner_Hokie)
2y
to give him "nothing". That's hilarious. It's a guarantee that they asked him to leave before the end of the season. He was fired. He probably took the settlement to get all the money up front, but there is zero doubt he didn't have to.
(In response to this post by Planner_Hokie)
2y
Why would they fire him the week before the UVA game and have a makeshift coaching staff for a rivalry game? That makes no sense.
He quit on his team because his feelings were hurt because Whit wouldn’t guarantee his return the following year. He put himself and his ego before his players and staff. Do you know how many people with way crappier working conditions still suck it up and show up to work every day—screw this jerk.
Oh and by the way if he is such a good coach how come he isn’t a head coach or a coach at all somewhere else? You think he is still trying to decide between all of his attractive offers.
(In response to this post by reestuart)
No, that's not how it worked.
He knew he was getting fired before the Georgia Tech game. He coached three games as the head coach as a lame duck as his agent and VT negotiated the buyout. He didn't quit.
(In response to this post by Planner_Hokie)
2y
the story was Whit allowed to him coach until the end and Fu said no thanks.
(In response to this post by Chris Coleman)
2y
what you/chris/whit described. that is, post GT he was told "you're getting fired at the end of the season, but you're welcome to finish out the year". Fu coached 3 more games before deciding he didn't want to finish the season.
(In response to this post by NokieHokie)
2y
harsh given the situation
(In response to this post by NokieHokie)
2y
So I guess it depends on how you are defining quit.
(In response to this post by GusDaMan)
I'm not sure.
All I know was he knew before GT that he was getting fired at the end of the season regardless.
(In response to this post by NokieHokie)
2y
to finish out the season, then I would call it quitting. Coaches preach loyalty for the players, but never demonstrate it themselves.
(In response to this post by Chris Coleman)
Meh...if you got fired from your job today...
And were told "you get paid no matter what, but it's your choice whether you want to keep working for the last three weeks". You'd probably leave. Not only for yourself mentally, but for closure for everyone involved.
So yeah, I guess technically he quit if he was given the option. But it's the type of quitting that pretty much every single other person would have done.
(In response to this post by NokieHokie)
2y
wouldn't quit if they had a stipulation in their contract that required their employer to pay them $10 M if they get fired prior to a set date. If my employer is going to fire me anyway, I am going to get everything my contract says.
Seriously, Chris there was no rational reason for him to quit when he did, he did it because of his own ego and whether he purposely tried to sabotage Tech by quitting right before their rivalry game or he just didn't care about how it impacted his players and staff doesn't matter it still says a lot about who he is. There are a lot of people who, even if they are in a rotten situation with their employer, care enough about their job and the people who work for them that they would try to go out the right way.
Funny thing is, we beat UVA despite his antics.
Link:
Fuente wanted to move on
(In response to this post by Chris Coleman)
2y
Kids were getting bullied/teased by others that their dad was being fired, he sucks etc etc.
Once he left, he let his kids know what was up & that they’d be ok. It took the mystery out of it & the kids were treated much better when the reality was out of the bag & rational adults stepped in to stop it.
He’s not here anymore. He wasn’t a bad hire, but it became apparent later he wasn’t the right guy long term. He didn’t destroy our program; as CC pointed out he opened eyes of administration that we weren’t investing for success. We have the right cultural guy in place now. Let’s hope he can game manage & X&O us to the top of the ACC.
Fuente wasn’t some abject failure; he was merely the guy who followed a legend who didn’t fit long term but was a necessary step into the future evolution of our program. Y’all need to let it go; the hate for him is unhealthy. He was imperfect but he was not an embarrassment to our university by any measure if you look around the landscape of college sports.
(In response to this post by Planner_Hokie)
2y
It’s responding to the lame excuses from posters who continue to apologize for a subpar coach that’s not even here anymore.
Like the excuse the AD wouldn’t spend money on the football program when Fuente was here but for some reason will spend money with Pry here. After his 2nd year, Fuente renegotiated his contract, Tech would have given him any thing he wanted at that point, the sun, the moon, the stars. The onus was on him, not Babcock, to know what he needed to ask for in order to develop a competitive football program and the reality is, he failed. Pry, on the other hand, came in with a very clear vision of what was needed to overhaul the football program, adding key personnel, identifying a coherent strategy regarding recruiting. etc etc.etc. Because of Pry’s vision, the administration has made those investments. Time will tell if his vision will prove to be successful but so far there are encouraging signs re: player retention, portal and instate recruiting for example.
Also, I reiterate that Fuente hasn’t gotten a coaching job since so he went from being a big deal to now he has some sort of advisor type position at IU I think. I would call that abject failure but we can agree to disagree.
(In response to this post by hokiepro)
2y
Was not fully funded until near end of his final year
Fuente was getting SOME more support yes but the build up of the staff and increase of recruiting budget didn’t happen until the last recruiting cycle (we had one of our best classes committed on paper prior to his firing)
(In response to this post by Planner_Hokie)
2y
(In response to this post by hokiepro)
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RJHokie
2y
he left here. He’s apparently had some analyst and consulting jobs at various places, but I’m not certain he wants another head or assistant coaching job at this stage in his kid lives after the taunting he and his family faced in Blacksburg when things went south.
(In response to this post by Planner_Hokie)
2y
And Cornelson threw that Miami game not playing Blackshear
Also him stepping down then saved VT some money I believe they negotiated a smaller payout
(In response to this post by Planner_Hokie)
2y
have to finish what you started" the way coaches do to their players/public.
I'm basically just pointing out how coaches lack integrity and hypocrites. Bunch of frauds and liars.
Otherwise I agree with you. :)
(In response to this post by Chris Coleman)
What else are they supposed to tell them?
I'd tell them the same thing, and then if I got fired, I'd probably leave. Am I a fraud and a liar? Fine, whatever. The vast, vast majority of the population would do the same thing. Personally, I think what is truly hypocritical is to suggest that we would behave differently in the same situation when we know deep down that we probably wouldn't.
(In response to this post by NokieHokie)
2y
(In response to this post by Chris Coleman)
So everybody is a hypocrite. And that's true, if you think about it.
(In response to this post by NokieHokie)
2y
preaches loyalty to team. If I were a HC, I would finish the season. I am unfortunately, not shameless enough to be able to be so fraudulent.
(In response to this post by Chris Coleman)
2y
(In response to this post by Planner_Hokie)
2y
Other teams? It's all relative. I was shocked but not surprised.
(In response to this post by NokieHokie)
2y
The devil's in the details.
(In response to this post by Chris Coleman)
2y
took the job hoping to fail. How successful would have he been if he had the resources he wanted is tough to say. The biggest anchor was his OC, who he wanted to replace and couldn't due to money. I think in the transfer world, he may have been better as a recruiter.
(In response to this post by VPI63)
2
2hhoop3
2y
as his priority was in reality his insurance, were promises not fulfilled. The source for those funds came long after promises went unfulfilled and does not have anything to do with sucking the oxygen out of the AD football budget. CJF made mistakes and he needed to go but, it is inaccurate, IMO, to hang the entire mess around his neck. Moreover, sharing accurate details is not sticking up for the guy or excusing his part, it is being honest about what truly happened.
(In response to this post by VPI63)
2y
as well as they should have. Everyone involved (especially him) could have done better. Let's hope Pry doesn't have the same problems.
(In response to this post by 2hhoop3)
2y
His run here wasn't successful. Could he have had a better strategy in VA? Sure. But there are a lot of reasons why. Let's not get it twisted....Pry has received a major infusion of funding for nearly everything in the program.....Coaching salaries, the Football Enhancement Fund, growing HC memberships and the benefits of facilities built during Fu's tenure.
If Fu had the same resources from the beginning that Pry has been given, my bet is he would have been a lot more successful. He is a pure Xs and Os guy that didn't handle the CEO role well at all. Pry is far better than Fu in that regard. But he's not a bad football coach. Things didn't work out timing wise for him. However, he is likely one of the big reasons the Enhancement Fund exists which is funding Pry right now. Just because it didn't work out here doesn't mean he's a bad coach. People need to give the guy a break.
(In response to this post by Hecklin)
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RJHokie
2y
What he’s not is a good communicator and manager of a P5/4 program. The lack of funding surely held him back and we will probably never know if he could have succeeded at VT with such funding.
Pry is very much better as a “press the flesh” kinda guy, and his communication skills are much better than Fu. As for being a good manager of a P5/4 program, I believe the jury is still out on that. But it appears to me he’s getting there.
(In response to this post by hokieinoregon)
2y
(In response to this post by Hecklin)
Lives in our heads…rent free!
(In response to this post by squarerootofone)
H
Hokie`79
2y
(In response to this post by squarerootofone)
You mean leaving H.S. games b4 'half 'cause: "they ain't Techmen" is NOT
our best, (nor our still lingering a mite), look?!?
why???
It is honest is what he said...
...that, and in all candor... IF, he coulda found 22-44 Air Force, Army, Navy flavored Semper Fine kido's? We would NOT be having this thread salt the TSL '24, soil.
He would prolly still be our coach; and, most of you would still be in love with him to boot.
(Did we four not warn all of you on JAX Media Day no.1?)
And Eye would not be the enemy of ^^^that^^^... IF he coulda only found that...
💯
b.street
(In response to this post by Hecklin)
2y
love way too easily. :)
(In response to this post by bourbonstreet)
hard to avoid... new=better & improved and what-not. patience=truthing.
** Edited by bourbonstreet at 6/25/2024, 11:04:52 PM
(In response to this post by NokieHokie)
Well, assuming VA players are as good as they used to be.
The NFL numbers have been in a huge decline over the last decade, and we now lag behind our border rivals. See the map below.
Link:
State comparison
(In response to this post by Hecklin)
2y
(In response to this post by Chris Coleman)
What I've heard about his feelings of the state...
Is that he thinks the organizational body (I.E. VHSL) is inferior to the other states he's recruited like PA, MD, and probably NC. Of course he can't say that publicly because he's the head coach of an in-state school, but I've heard that's how he feels about the situation.
It's going to be a year-by-year thing. This year we're taking a lot of in-state guys, but last year I think we only took five.
(In response to this post by marcbvtgm)
2y
Isn't it just a direct contact between VT's recruiting staff and each individual high school + a player's family?
I don't see where VHSL being competent or not would really play into it. Don't they basically just manage the referees, sports districts, and state playoffs?
(In response to this post by Chris Coleman)
Well, I don't think it would help.
Maybe it wouldn't hurt. But it certainly wouldn't help.
One of the biggest issues is the "handlers" and the transferring, and all that crap. But he can't say anything about that either because we're about to get a commit from a family member of the people who are under investigation for a bunch of that stuff. It's best for him to just stay quiet about it, and when he does talk about it, to just stick to the party line.
But, I don't have any such restrictions.
(In response to this post by Zanderhokie)
2y
(In response to this post by Chris Coleman)
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RJHokie
2y
It governs practice schedules, eligibility, playoff brackets, school playing divisions, number of games, etc.
It can affect a lot of things. Some schools find ways to work around some of the rules (cheat).
(In response to this post by Zanderhokie)
2y
Of course there is more to success than just NFL players per million pop.
(In response to this post by Chris Coleman)
2y
(In response to this post by DarylS)
Right, top players from that state often cross the border.
Just as easy for them to go to Tennessee, Bama or Auburn.
(In response to this post by DarylS)
It was still a failed recruiting strategy. For him to just cut off relation
-ships with high schools in our backyard put the current staff behind the eight ball in rebuilding critical relationships and that Coach Beamer worked years to establish. You can’t turn that engagement off and on like a faucet. Not in Virginia, but look no further than Noah Chambers. All about the relationships. Fu screwed the pooch, Pry et al and the fan base with his approach. Nonsensical.
(In response to this post by Chris Coleman)
I don't disagree with that, but that's not my point.
But that's not what I'm arguing about. I'm saying that even if we do regain our in-state dominance, it's unlikely to lead to a uber-talented team where the vast majority of the best players are from Virginia. Think about that 2005 team, probably our most talented of all time.
LB - Hall, Adibi, Anderson...all from VA
DE: Ellis, Tapp, Burchette, all from VA
Safeties: Hamilton, Rouse, Parker, all from VA
DT: Lewis, Powell, Booker, Sandidge, and Robertson...all from VA
CB: Jimmy Williams, from VA
WR: Eddie Royal and Hyman, VA
TE: Jeff King, from VA, and every single backup TE as well
OL: Duane Brown, Will Montgomery, from VA
RB: Ore, Humes and Imoh, all from VA
QB: Marcus Vick, VA
That's just off the top of my head. Heck, three of the top 5 DTs were from Southside VA, an area of the state that barely produces any players at all these days.
Signing such a high rate of in-state players will not get similar results these days, IMO.
(In response to this post by BackInTheBurg)
2y
(In response to this post by reestuart)
Good points
I've been thinking the same, but didn't have the data to explain it. You summed it up perfectly.
I wonder what this looks like for the 2016 team. I think we had some (key) players from FL, JE from Texas, etc. Probably quite a few of Beamers players from VA. Just wondering.
Times change. Everything is cyclical. Michigan winning the natty says the SEC can't win it every year...at least.
(In response to this post by Chris Coleman)
2y
(In response to this post by AirForceHokie77)
2y
(In response to this post by Pride_and_Joy)
2y
relative to surrounding state 20 years ago. But the population explosion has really elevated it. That’s not a cycle, that’s a change.
That’s all I was trying to say. The rust belt will continue to lose population and the southern states will continue to grow (Texas, Florida, Tennessee).
That growth has contributed to resources that, in turn, me e the per capita results.
(In response to this post by marcbvtgm)
In the context I was speaking on, yes things are cyclical
I probably shouldn't have said "everything"... so you're probably right in that regard.
(In response to this post by Pride_and_Joy)
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Hokie622
2y
How many pro-level recruits are available for each major football program in any state? If we're talking about the importance of in-state recruiting, I think it's relevant. Virginia's got fewer pro-level players per capita than Mississippi, but we've got a lot more people than Mississippi. We have really 2 options for recruits (VT and UVA) similar to Mississippi (Ole Miss and Miss State). So how do the pro-level players per school compare?
(In response to this post by Chris Coleman)
We're doing something wrong in this state.
Look at Maryland (smaller pop) and NC (bigger pop) on our immediate borders, and they both blow us away. The top coaches in the state, from it's heyday, have retired. And some of the ones who replaces them have moved out-of-state, such as Rich Morgan moving to Georgia for a big payday. And then there's this article linked below, which specifically talks about quarterbacks, but I believe applies to all positions as well. I believe we've got a problem in this state that no Virginia Tech head coach is going to be able to solve. Doesn't mean that we shouldn't sign VA kids, but remember that last year Pry only signed five of them.
(In response to this post by Hokie622)
2y
Is that coaching football only pays a small stipend but is a huge time suck. You really have to love it and want to do it because the pay isn't worth it.
I don't remember what it is now but I remember back around 2008 the stipend for head coaches in Roanoke County was just $2500 or $3000 a year. That likely equates to a $2 or $3 an hour when you tally up your time over the course of the season. It's just not enough to put up with the parents, the players, the boosters, and the ever-evolving game.
Of course, this goes back to not enough funding for education overall, which then leaves even less money for paying athletic staff at the high school level. One idea I do wish would gain some traction is eliminating sports at the high school level and going to district-wide teams. People would hate this because sports is tied in with academics (and people have pride) in the U.S. but it would raise the level of competition you would play against week-in-and-week-out thus improving the quality of players across the state. Imagine how good of a team you could field if you combined 5 or 6 757 high schools onto one team. They could probably give IMG a run for their money.
Just an idea but it'll never happen. It would help recruiting and be a major win for the athletics though (and the coaching salaries could be higher).
(In response to this post by Chris Coleman)
2y
Budget for coaches stipend. One can multiply coaches stipends by 500% (ie 3k stipend --> 15k)and hardly make a dent in school budgets.
(In response to this post by MBHokie90)
Yep, that's right.
I remember my high school DB coach quitting after my sophomore year. He told me that he did the math and he was making like 8 cents per hour, haha.
(In response to this post by MBHokie90)
2y
And receive a full time salary. Morgan i believe is making 6 figures in GA. In Virginia football coaches teach as well as coach and receive a stipend. The stipend is minimal and does not begin to cover the number of hours required to coach.
(In response to this post by Chris Coleman)
M
MVIII
2y
Tounge in cheek but you need more data than just this map to see where Virginia falls.
(In response to this post by Chris Coleman)
Of course, and I've researched it thoroughly.
And written many articles about it over the last few years. Soooo many busts among the top players in the state of Virginia. And the overall NFL numbers have gradually dropped by about 20 over the last decade. And it's not just the numbers, it's what my eyes tell me, too. And seeing the coaching situations around the state...like a few years back when seven (7!) 757 head coaches quit in the span of one month. That right there tells you that there are plenty of issues in the state.
But as a starting point, read the article linked below. It's about quarterbacks, but it applies to all positions in the state. I interviewed guys like Dwight Vick, Lew Johnston and Jim Cavanaugh, and they have some very good takes.
Link:
757 QBs
(In response to this post by MVIII)
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RJHokie
2y
really never has been. State politics (both parties) and jurisdictional issues (e.g. independent cities) have long been imbedded in state and local governance which carries over into sports and related philosophies.
(In response to this post by Chris Coleman)
2y
NIL legislation passed
AG joining TN suit
Push to attract/fund a couple pro-level stadiums which was blocked... a head-scratcher by who blocked
(In response to this post by RJHokie)
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RJHokie
2y
On a local level you’ve not seen spring practices for football, nor football and other sports coaches being paid decent money for just coaching with little, if any, teaching responsibilities, and the provision of funding for such positions.
The push for the pro venues in NOVA was from the governor and blocked by the locals who didn’t want the added grief associated with the additional traffic burden. Plus the site locations were in swampy areas.
(In response to this post by VT757to276)
2y
They’re the 5th best state in that category, per these stats. I’d have never guessed that. I suppose it’s all the hog mollie offensive linemen they produce up there? Or Iowa and Iowa State having good football programs right now?
(In response to this post by Chris Coleman)
Interesting... what & when was this >4.3 apex? i.e,. how far on the fall?
(In response to this post by Chris Coleman)
Back about 10-12 years ago VA had about 20 more total NFL players.
I think we're in the low 30s right now, and we used to be in the low 50s. I've written several articles on it in the past, but when I tried to find them recently, I couldn't. But I know that to be factual.
(In response to this post by bourbonstreet)
fair 'enuff.
FWIIW... the thingys I found did not exactly agree... tho' Eye bagged 'em for the good of TSL.
They were off by .4 tenths of diminishment-- downward; true.
Just not a leap off the Acme Anvil, cliff.
HTH's
b.street
(In response to this post by Chris Coleman)
2: A few schools stockpiling most of the area’s talent.
hahahaha... I just worte that last nite in w.Press... LOL!
We saw/said the VERY same thingy...
Your #8... is that an 8th of 8 or just an unweighted, "8th"??? (is it, 'least'; or, 8th important)?
far-out... not much to disagry with there... you done well. Though, someone needs to tell the TSL peeps... this is a VERY SHAAAADY business. Like mostly/fully cloudy. @nite.
As Hands are out and they want "dat bag"... (as they put it to we, literally).
: (
(note: last recruiting sccops from we on TSL=DAX & Mitch', pay-side remember? I truly severance this that much, kan't stand it... don't want to be associated wif it, either).
None at all.
Eye roll to help hurtin' and 'rong side or under the tracks kids' find a LIFELINE/way out... not to help my$elf to them.
😕
b.street
(In response to this post by bourbonstreet)
2
2hhoop3
2y
for the observation! I said similar to b-street in a reply below. I also believe NIL and the portal significantly impact the best approach in VA nowadays. The differences in NIL, the risk of developing a kid to then move in the portal, etc. would seem analogous to an auto purchase decision. You buy the new car and absorb the depreciation hit the minute you drive off the lot OR you scour the used market for value. In recruiting, Pry and staff still need to recruit VA hard and build relationships but, the game is longer, especially with top kids, where that relationship pays off in the portal down the road. I think the efficiency of recruiting older kids will become more and more apparent. That is not to say you ignore HS, you absolutely do not as those relationships are necessary, however, the evaluation process and selectivity likely gets tighter on HS kids.
(In response to this post by Chris Coleman)
2
2hhoop3
2y
really surprising to see California's present standing. Somebody needs to tell them Wisconsin doesn't like to be labeled Illinois. ;-)
** Edited by 2hhoop3 at 6/25/2024, 9:18:56 PM
(In response to this post by Chris Coleman)
2y
(In response to this post by Hecklin)
2y
So far….What Pry does better is make the fans like him
(In response to this post by FLKEYSHOKIE)
2y
( mainly OC who will remain nameless) that were not liked.
(In response to this post by bburgnative)
2y
More than anything. Fu = great coordinator. HORRIBLE head whistle
(In response to this post by hokiepro)
...oranges to tangerines as this is O vs. D, right? Though yes... you could
VERY well have a great cheerleader1 handle on the rest...
Pry surely is (likable) that... and that's not bad/'rong... although, what else (football1) is he???
🤔
b.street
(In response to this post by hokiepro)
2y
Teams Can’t walk all over us a la FSU, UL & NCSU 2023 style
(In response to this post by bourbonstreet)
to have what he 1st year D inherited; and a lack of P.s.u. fit(s)?
54th total D and a very useful 42nd run-D is no bad shakes.
Though, that is NO bad shakes as a D-coordinator... which may or may not encode for a head coach who can actually shake it up...
time=tell...
b.street
(In response to this post by hokiepro)
Really? Better pure O coach than Fu'?
(In response to this post by FLKEYSHOKIE)
2y
Sure the first year was like a dream but as the years went on his offense became more conservative than even Beamer’s offenses. We were very good at limiting turnovers and penalties but you still need to occasionally get first downs and even tds and by the last year that was happening less and less. I much prefer last years offense than that-I especially liked how we stepped on the gas when we got a lead instead of going into a shell with even a small lead ala Fuente.
And don’t get me started on the lack of development /regression of our qbs
(In response to this post by bourbonstreet)
did not quite say that... just pointing out O vs. D mo' so than measuring.
Last years' O=Pic.
OOOOOOOnly.
Trus' me... he carrying this whole shebang (O & Culture) like Atlas...
...he goes down and you will truly trust me.
b.street
p.s. Part II and I will overdue finally try to analyze/grade coaching... which has proven to be rather R.A.T.T. traction adverse, if not 'bear' Grylls "slippy". As a spoiler goes...
(In response to this post by Planner_Hokie)
2y
all other aspects !
(In response to this post by bourbonstreet)
K. hope so... wish I felt like Eye knew so (already) tho'...
(In response to this post by FLKEYSHOKIE)
2y
been bad, just with VA guys. The misses didn't do well wherever they went. Fuente's biggest mistake was acknowledging the lack of talent and hurting a bunch of high school coach's feelings.
For whatever reason, VA had some down years in talent. Really down in QB and big guys. I hope it turns around.
(In response to this post by Hecklin)
Is it 'down', really? Or, jus' quite a bit harder to manage/handler$?
(In response to this post by Seikoh_04)
2y
Ago. RB talent may also be down. Overall, I’d say there has been a dip in overall talent coupled with a spike in the attention that top programs give to recruiting that talent. Beamer being a Gamecock is a new wrinkle.
(In response to this post by bourbonstreet)
2y
There are a few highly touted VA guys each year that don't get a sniff by the local schools. Nevermind the fact that those blue chips have a high flame out rate, the handlers then try to force subpar players into the State school. They then cry and moan that the State school isn't serious about Virginia because their VMI athlete wasn't offered a scholarship over a worthy athlete from a state or two away.
There are success stories still coming out of VA. They have just been fewer of late. Hoping it was just a dip in a Sine wave.
When was the last VA QB to do anything?
(In response to this post by bourbonstreet)
2y
was a good man and a good coach but he just did not understand the importance of recruiting the state of Virginia. That was the only thing he would say negative about him.
(In response to this post by Hecklin)
K
kpileski
2y
and made me think again: "What if Bud was hired?" Probably the biggest "What-If" question in Virginia Tech football history.
(In response to this post by Hokie_Forester)
2y
Bud was an outstanding DC. He would have failed as a head coach because he didn’t possess the CEO credentials needed to be a head whistle.
(In response to this post by kpileski)
2y
(In response to this post by kpileski)
Eye kinda/sorta (sadly) agry-- albeit not for coaching verbing reason(s).
(In response to this post by reestuart)
2y
Hell of a DC but being a HC is a whole different animal.
(In response to this post by reestuart)
2y
lot of internal pressure to give the job to Bud.
(In response to this post by reestuart)
2
2hhoop3
2y
in Virginia and in some other states recruiting the local HS is important. However, if the talent cannot get the level of wins needed the coach is still getting fired. Virginia is a far different recruiting lift nowadays than during Beamer's run and it is unlikely to get better. Pry needs to keep recruiting VA hard and establishing/reestablishing relationships, however, he likely plays a longer game these days than Beamer had to.
(In response to this post by Hokie_Forester)
^this^ a strategic/Macro thinker on TSL... who, knew?
A diff' way to see/say that is to say... Frank got out just in the very last sec' nick of time...
Or, he knew/realized the BIG picture was about to change... a poaching vandalism of his methodology, really... and one he could never match-play beat.
b.street
(In response to this post by 2hhoop3)
2y
(In response to this post by bourbonstreet)
2
2hhoop3
2y
if his health didn't fail him he probably doesn't recognize the big picture. Virginia is a used car state now in terms of recruiting talent. Let someone else take the new car depreciation driving it off the HS lot and get it on the back-end through the portal. One last thing regarding your question on CC's map. Off the top of my head considering VA population that metric was likely at its highest somewhere in the late 90s to 2010 and topped out in the 5.5 to 6.5 range. Just a guess knowing VA had around 8MM people in that time and pro players in the 44 to 52 range depending on injuries, active rosters and taxi squads.
(In response to this post by bourbonstreet)
well struck... Eye may borrow that used/new thingy. Va Pop. is up, tho'...
(In response to this post by 2hhoop3)
2
2hhoop3
2y
my eyes are not good enough to estimate from graph but, 8MM is in ballpark I think.
** Edited by 2hhoop3 at 6/25/2024, 10:16:36 PM
(In response to this post by bourbonstreet)
Eye locked your article'lized props in. Sharp1 too.
(In response to this post by bourbonstreet)
2y
and, I don’t know how he got any recruits. I always thought CF was an Xs and Os guy with not much personality. However, after hearing some stories, his personality was worse than one could imagine. Can’t believe VT hired such a dud.
(In response to this post by Hecklin)
Worst; interview, EVER. I literally walked outside, looked up at the Sky...
and said: "Sorry Coach-God, that guy's a F'n P." (the male one, ends in 'ick').
He was awful... the slowest Band-Aid pull, ever...
b.street
(In response to this post by BeachGobbler)
2y
And I’m sure you’ve interviewed a lot of folks, so that’s saying something.
FWIW, that matches exactly what I heard from more than one source in the know re: Fu. Not gonna list specifics on this forum, but what you typed rings true. Very true.
(In response to this post by bourbonstreet)
he and a local H.S. football coach... only 2 that I could not wait to end.
And I did everything technique-wise... tried nice, softballs, warm-ups, familiarity, went for hardcore X's and O's... nuttin'. ~2-hours of tension.
...my only analysis is... he musta REALLY been burnt to the ground by some 4th-Estate member on the D.L. (down low) on a nasty breach of trust. Which is 'rong. On the media.
Once bitten thrice shy in his case... (which is sad...)
('member, Eye said all along-- I felt sorry for the guy... mo' so than anything else)... those pressers woulda made his enemy(s) cringe...
b.street
(In response to this post by Zanderhokie)
2y
(In response to this post by bourbonstreet)
it was the enemy of Fu'n. Sad.
(In response to this post by NokieHokie)
2y
Just didn't work out.
(In response to this post by BeachGobbler)
E
EDGEMAN
2y
He did really well at Memphis.
Unfortunately that O-coordinator left for a job in Texas and didn't follow Fu to Blacksburg.
(In response to this post by BeachGobbler)
Fu also caught lightning in a bottle with QB Paxton Lynch (1st rounder)
But it turns out Fu didnt even recruit Paxton Lynch, the Memphis AD is the one who identified Lynch and told Fuente to reach out.
Fu came in as a QB whisperer (Lynch/Andy Dalton), but he didnt have a QB start at VT for more than a season.
IMO, the "predicted outcomes" QB coaching he emphasized put handcuffs on our QB's.
As you mentioned, he lost his OC AND his DC while at Memphis - then pulled the eject button at Memphis at the right time and got a huge raise
** Edited by kingofcassell at 6/25/2024, 11:48:09 AM
(In response to this post by EDGEMAN)
2y
I don't think he was a good fit in Blacksburg, but I do think if he had gotten the things he asked for he would have done just good enough to keep his job, and even put together a really good season here and there. He wanted a more experienced defensive coordinator, and I believe it's now known that he was fine getting rid of Cornelson. He was just told there wasn't money for it. With that said had he stayed it wouldn't have been much fun around here, for fans or players. Fuente for me was like hiring an AI to be your coach. He was capable, smart even, but it just didn't feel right.
(In response to this post by Hecklin)
V
VTCALS72
2y
well 2. Scott and Wiggins were supposed to be the main recruiters. That hurt big time. And the 2nd is the timing. When Fu came in the 7 on 7 guys had their max control over 7 on 7. It was getting that way late in CFB's time and that is what Fu walked into. He didn't handle it well but that was a whole different dynamic in real time.
But one thing that is spot on is he just did not "fit" for who VT is. You know, when I think about it, Fu in Blacksburg was about like VT in the Big 12. Just too different.
(In response to this post by TekkNerd)
2y
A failing for VT was getting lazy when we were winning and not investing money into facilities and staff to keep it going. We had success while being cheap and it caught up to us.
JF’s biggest contribution to VT was calling that out and getting VT to accept what is needed.
But in recruiting and culture he was a terrible fit for VT. He works best somewhere that doesn’t have a strong football culture and that needs building. VT only needed adjusting (not a full rebuild) and had a deeply ingrained culture built over decades. It was not a bad hire in general, but bad for VT and what we needed.
(In response to this post by TekkNerd)
is Pry recruiting better than Fuente? seems like a wash at this point
(In response to this post by Hecklin)
2y
It's not where it was under peak-Beamer but it's improved from 2016-2020. Recruiting rankings are only half the battle. You do have to develop these guys and we're seeing more year-to-year development.
We do need to improve our recruiting rankings but with NIL it's apple and oranges now compared to the previous era.
(In response to this post by kingofcassell)
I think next year (2025) should be pretty telling on player development
but just about all of our offensive skill players are transfers (drones, tuten, felton, jennings, lane) - not sure we should include the transfers as developmental...? but they have been here for for a full season now - so maybe they should count.
IMO - one red flag for me so far is that the run defense/linebackers have been pretty bad in Pry's tenure. with Pry's experience, I thought LB/run defense would have been a strength. but hoping that improves with LB Sam Brumfield and the DT transfers this year.
** Edited by kingofcassell at 6/26/2024, 12:52:45 PM
(In response to this post by MBHokie90)
wait'll you see part II.
(In response to this post by kingofcassell)
G
Gman12
2y
Pry is having to re-establish the relationships within the state with high schools that Fuente neglected or, for the most part, ignored. This is already paying dividends but should be a huge deal for the future IMO. He is getting 757 players which is a very good thing. The class that he is putting together currently doesn't seem as strong as last years but that is subject to improve with time (hopefully). He has done very well in the portal.
(In response to this post by kingofcassell)
(possibly) most illuming... in that the Portal is not the Fu'bar Va-hole.
(In response to this post by Gman12)
He is meeting needs better already thru recruiting plus transfers
He is building relationships in Virginia that are already paying off and will pay off with even better players down the road
(In response to this post by kingofcassell)