The notion that we could get a better basketball coach is ludicrous
Maybe a better recruiter, but it would probably be someone who would cut corners. We’ve already done that recently, in my opinion, we are a lot better off now.
Whether people like it or not, Blacksburg is a much tougher place to recruit to than almost any other. But if we are in the top half of the conference in terms of NIL $, we will finish in the top half of the conference and go to the tournament.
91 Replies
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lazarus1
5mo
Location matters less, dollars matter much more. If we had, just speaking hypothetically, $5 million to pay each player we'd be competing with Duke, UConn and the rest irrespective of the night life in B'bg.
(In response to this post by Squatro)
5mo
We just didn’t have enough players who can make shots this year. Otherwise, we were a pretty good team. Make a few extra baskets and we would be in a good position right now. The margin for error is thin, and 41% shooting will not get you over the hump in this conference.
(In response to this post by lazarus1)
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Vippie1
5mo
If not last then certainly near the bottom. We got lucky that Greenberg made us middle of the pack for 8 years with next to nothing. We funded Buzz a little better but still way off league norms.
You know why the Pack kicked our ass Saturday, they had about 19k in the stands ,many with open wallets.
Hoops is still a niche cult thing at VT, unlike Duke UNC NCSU wake ville cuse uva. And then you got schools without hoops passion but money, Miami smu fsu Clemson.
Vt lacks both fan passion and money. Truthfully we get more then we deserve out of mbb
** Edited by Vippie1 at 2/9/2026, 9:58:14 AM
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5mo
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lazarus1
5mo
to the AD and BOV and get the money. That's now part of his job description.
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Vippie1
5mo
So again, until the Whit situation gets resolved the hoop program will be in limbo.
IMO it will take a AD hire who comes in with the agreed to resources to elevate the program. He then gets his coach who gets the player. So it really needs to start with BOV realizing what they need in the next AD and what it will cost.
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5mo
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Vippie1
5mo
Truthfully I think CMY might want or offer to hang it up after the season but VT may ask him to hang on one more season.
The timing is bad for a change with the AD unsettled and the major football reset.
** Edited by Vippie1 at 2/9/2026, 9:48:52 AM
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5mo
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nkhooch
5mo
look at many famous NBA players with lengthy careers, very few make a marked improvement in their FT shooting. So, for some reason it can't always be improved on. But, it's frustrating to lose games because of it.
(In response to this post by MP4VT2004)
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KCHokie2
5mo
** Edited by KCHokie2 at 2/8/2026, 10:31:44 PM
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5mo
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5mo
Who knew good things were possible at VT of all places?
** Edited by GoldCoast at 2/8/2026, 8:14:55 PM
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5mo
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KCHokie2
5mo
He's got until the third quarter of the VMI game.
(In response to this post by MP4VT2004)
5mo
So, start of the third quarter
(In response to this post by KCHokie2)
5mo
(In response to this post by MP4VT2004)
5mo
Just like with recruits, it is difficult to get coaches who are proven at the Power Conference level to come to VT
Think about the two biggest names VT has gotten in football and basketball in the last 2 decades...James Franklin and Buzz Williams
Both came to VT after what no one would have thought possible the year before...both had public disputes with their ADs prior to Buzz leaving when Marquette wouldn't meet his demands and Franklin being fired. It wasn't as though VT stole a hot commodity coach from somewhere. The coaches were at their most flawed and their least popular.
Now take a look at the athletes VT has been able to entice to come to VT that we're highly ranked.
Joe Bamisile (coach relationship)
Rodney Rice (coach relationship)
RJ Jones (injury issues)
Neo Avdalas (allow him opportunity to play PG for the first time ever)
You're not getting them in straight up recruiting battles. Buzz Williams didn't. He paid for Chris Clarke, he took tests for Landers Nolley, NAW was another coach relationship, Blackshear's heel couldnt touch the ground.
Seth Greenberg wasnt any different. Marquis Cooke was a head case. Justin Holt couldnt spell his last name. Dowdell, Gordon, Collins and Washington were criminally underrated.
This isn't a new phenomenon. This spans decades.
You want someone in the leadership role.of the program who can identify the market ineffeciency of a higher rated player others might not value as well as underrated players who can play up in your system
Mike Young has continually hit on the players who are underrated
Storm Murphy
Sean Pedulla
Ben Hammond
Hunter Cattoor
Nahiem Alleyne
Tyler Johnson
Justyn Mutts
Keve Aluma
He's had some bad luck with some higher rated players
Avdalas has been inconsistent
Rice couldnt get healthy and he became a head case when his coach left
Cartier Diarra didn't like needles
RJ Jones couldnt get healthy (still isnt)
Darius Maddox's father got cancer mid-season
They need to hit better on the highly rated players they bring in, for sure...I'm just not sure what's reasonable to be done differently in the instances above.
But the moral of the story is that even if theres a pie in the sky coach out there who becomes flawed enough to land in VTs wheelhouse (AND VT somehow parts with MY) it isn't going to be some drastic change. Buzz went to the NCAAT at VT 3 out of 5 times...it's the biggest name VT had ever hired in any sport outside of wrestling until James Franklin. Buzz's conference record at VT is similar to MY. Theyre both short of Greenberg. Theyre all wildly above James Johnson.
Speaking of...James Johnson, believe it or not, was a very popular hire when Greenberg was coaching. People wanted Greenberg to hand it over to Johnson. He was a big time recruiter. But he had never been a head coach.
It was extremely sloppy how it was handled, but the people clamored for it.
Sound familiar? An unproven big time recruiting assistant whose first time as a HC is at a difficult ACC school?
Careful what you wish for...it might not get a ton better, but it can get A LOT worse
(In response to this post by Squatro)
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Vippie1
5mo
a substantial increa$e in financial commitment from VT. So let's start there -money. This IS the ceiling unless that changes- and I dont care if Wooden and K want to come back to Blacksburg and coach.
I dont think the remote rural location hinders us as much as it did 5-10-20 years ago - but other thing$ are.
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
5mo
I would just add that while NIL opens VT up to a higher caliber of player, you do have to pay them substantially more to come to VT than schools above your peer group.
So you have to continually do a cost analysis of what the actual value of a player is to your program.
Do you pay a 5-star $3 million if Louisville offers $2.5? Or do you split the 3 million up and offer three players $1 million that Louisville has offered 750k?
You're not getting any of the 4 players at the same price point
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Vippie1
5mo
You've got to pay a starter level player some level premium above whatever the Yankees or Red Sox will offer to seal a deal to Baltimore. We are early in this NIL world but I'm pretty sure the same will apply to VT vs any brand.
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HokieSA
5mo
How is Brownwell doing it? I'd kill to have the kind of momentum his program has right now. Solidly in the NCAA tournament 3 years running now. His tenure at Clemson started very similar to Mike's at VT - first 7 seasons, 2 NITs and one NCAA at-large (NCAA his first year actually, I'm assuming largely with Oliver Purnell's players/recruits). I imagine comparing Coach A to Coach B is extremely subjective. All one can do is go Bill Parcells and say well your record says what you are.
Jim Weaver used to say VT most favorably compared to Clemson as peer institution athletically so it seems a fair place to start. I just don't understand why if they can do it there, why not hope for same at VT? If Dabo's football natties somehow helped basketball, well, we just committed $230mil to athletics over 4 years, doesn't that make us more attractive assuming MBB gets some of that $$ to work with?
** Edited by HokieSA at 2/9/2026, 1:15:47 PM
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
5mo
Went to one in his first season and then had a 6 year drought.
I like Brad Brownell, I think he's a good coach. But I do find it hilarious that he's the comparison many people are making to MY. MY has cleared him two-fold at the same time in their program build.
In year 16, he is synonymous with the program and he can tell recruits he will be there no matter what. It helps. He's had 16 years to implement his system. 4 recruiting cycles. He's been able to have a lot of trial and error until he figured out not only what he wanted but what fit Clemson and their resources.
They dont recruit top players. They just find guys who do what he likes to do and most dont value the same things.
Should the coach at VT model that? Yes. And they are. And they've done it better at the same point in their tenure
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HokieSA
5mo
And maybe it's not a fair one..but J Weaver used to say we compared most favorably to Clemson from an athletics standpoint and I tended to get his point.
I do get your point on Brownell 16 years in now, and 4 full recruiting cycles. So MY is halfway there presumably. What did Brownell figure out after those first 7 years that they started to really have consistency? Clemson obviously stuck with him. (tic) One NCAA tournament in 7 years?! Well that sounds almost VT-like (tic). It reminds me of the debate on Coach Pry. It was said well Dabo didn't win his first 4-5 years either, THEN he caught fire on recruiting and it all started to come together.
If you or others think MY continues to be the right coach at the right time for VT, I get that. But an argument can be made well we've got money to spend now. I just feel like programs like Vandy, as long as they keep Byington (given what he's showing he can do at a high level), have a better chance to be in the NCAAs most years going forward. Willard at Nova - I don't know that he can win a natty there, but I like his track record to at least have them back in the tournament year in year out. Buzz will have Maryland back in the NCAAs a couple years in a row then he'll leave for elsewhere of course. I hope MY can catch fire next 5 years and cement his legacy, it's just the history of doing so isn't there.
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
5mo
...not been a problem for VT. I'm talking specifically about obtaining a roster good enough to get into the tournament. Certainly, it can get worse and people fail despite the odds going for them - see Ole Miss, Uncle buzz, and Rhodes at PSU. However, as you spin 3 NCAAs in 6 years, I see 0-3 as we trend towards 0-4 (and yes, I'll say it, a last second shot from being 0-5).
So net - It is not crazy for people to doubt MY, as great of a man as he is, and possibly think VT could get better going in a different direction.
** Edited by GoldCoast at 2/8/2026, 8:39:57 PM
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
5mo
it's not easy to win. Would VT be betting against the odds with the next hire. For sure. That being said major program fail like Texas or Kentucky. The small schools randomly hit ( at a low rate)
I do wonder if MY record of going the NCAA and wins in the NCAA tournament would be higher if he stayed at Wofford then taking over VT
** Edited by VermontDDS at 2/8/2026, 8:09:15 PM
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hok1eboy
5mo
It's not immediate...it's not automatic...but it's required.
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Shbolf
5mo
That team from last year won 5 road games
That was magic
So maybe I’m wrong
** Edited by Shbolf at 2/8/2026, 7:44:52 PM
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
5mo
Would the same work for basketball?
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5mo
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lazarus1
5mo
as a consistent middle to lower tier of the conference for the indefinite future while the school to the north strives for championships in b'ball? I understand and respect your argument but these sound similar to the arguments given for not going after a name coach in football for a number of years. We need to strive for more. I really think there are plenty of equally good and relatively ethical (key word is "relatively") coaches out there who could kick-start our program into a higher orbit; and if /when that happens I suspect we can, with our new Board of Visitors (and hopefully a new AD) find the money to properly support the program and retain the coach for a little while.
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
5mo
I'm not forcing you to feel any way. But when no coaches deliver a consistent national presence, thinking a carousel of coaches is the fix just isn't rooted in reality.
(In response to this post by lazarus1)
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lazarus1
5mo
just one good coach. You know, you, I and everyone are judged in our jobs by our results and pay some sort of price if we don't get them. I like CMY a lot, he's been a good representative of the school and is a good, decent and ethical man; and of course we should be thankful for the ACC tournament championship among other things but if we again don't get to the Big Dance for the fourth consecutive year I believe, as he has said himself he has to be held responsible. I don't want to see him fired; just retire with everyone's best wishes and thanks. Time to start a new era. I don't agree that we can't get a better coaching staff with a decent commitment and a new AD. I hope he can still find a way to turn it around this season but not optimistic.
** Edited by lazarus1 at 2/8/2026, 11:47:04 PM
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
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DCL
5mo
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
5mo
Who do you think would win the most games?
I would go with Dan Hurley, Tom Izzo, Kelvin Sampson, come first to mind.
I would put Mike Young in the top half for sure.
(In response to this post by Squatro)
5mo
NIL payments have effected which HC's win and are not as successful. CMY "reportedly" has $ 2-3 million to spend. Better than 2024-25 but still not in the range to bring in portal players and even HS kids the caliber UofL and schools that give their basketball teams two and 3 times that much.
It's a free agent market and VT is playing with a half loaded bank roll. Not an excuse, just the reality of the situation.
Hope that changes this coming off-season but who knows.
(In response to this post by Squatro)
5mo
Keeping a great coach maybe. But getting a new, great coach. No
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RiverVT
5mo
To think we pay a coach 4 million a year with assumption that we can never win in Blacksburg is ludicrous . If so, Leaders must go with such wasteful resources
(In response to this post by Squatro)
5mo
retires at the earliest. Even then, it would take a Franklin level infusion of resources to buy top players and upgrade facilities. We are in a self perpetuating cycle where mediocrity begets more mediocrity, an example of which is Cassel Coliseum. Seems we can’t afford to renovate it, yet I can’t imagine it’s current state isn’t a detractor in the minds of prospective coaches and players.
Sometimes I wonder how much is actual X & O coaching versus simply having better players. Even Pry would have won more with these Franklin recruits, but he couldn’t attract those players or command the cash infusion. MY seems well respected in coaching circles, but until the whole operation is seriously upgraded, this is what we’re going to get.
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hok1eboy
5mo
But I'm very good with Mike Young as our Coach. IF we can keep a core team together for a couple years he'll have us building a statue. Continue the NIL $upport...find a assistant to coach some defensive theory and fundamentals...and, oh yeah, a little better end game management and we would be debating seeding position as opposed to last four in or last four out.
(In response to this post by Squatro)
5mo
For recruiting? Perception, real or NIL?
(In response to this post by Squatro)
5mo
And there’s a lot more to do in Charlottesville than there is in Blacksburg. I loved my time at Tech, but when I went to grad school in Charlottesville, there was so much more to do.
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5mo
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hok1eboy
5mo
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hok1eboy
5mo
the friendliest. The Waltons and Tysons have dropped bales (and I mean bales) of cash on facilities the campus doesn't hold a candle to VT (most don't). So until the ACC folds up and blows away we have everything we need..except a few more bales of cash....on an annual basis
(In response to this post by Windows NT)
5mo
non-white percentages are close.
(In response to this post by UpperQuad)
5mo
But if there are any, he will find them.
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5mo
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5mo
basketball team and yet they smoke everyone. Currently 20-2 and ranked #7 in the country. Ever been to Ames, IA? I was just out there this summer. Its population is slightly bigger than Blacksburg, but it’s basically in the middle of nowhere. Did the Cyclones athletic department look around at all the corn fields and decide, nope, we can never win in basketball so let’s just give up? Obviously not.
Same with Nebraska. Lincoln is a bigger city than Blacksburg but it’s not exactly seen as a basketball hotbed. And yet, the Cornhuskers are 20-2 and ranked #9 in the nation right now.
Is it really THAT unrealistic to win big in Blacksburg? I suspect it’s not as impossible as many make it out to be. It can be done, but we’ve never been fully bought in on establishing a major commitment to basketball, from a monetary and resources standpoint. Those factors are holding us back more than geography, IMHO.
(In response to this post by Windows NT)
5mo
That helps them funnel more money into FB, MBB, and WBB.
Their MBB head coach makes about $3.5 million. Our entire MBB staff makes about $4 million, or they did in last year's Fiscal Report.
I'm not saying that's everything, of course, but they have limited resources so they have to be smart about how they spend their money. Thus, they decide not to spend it on a bunch of small sports that don't move the needle.
Also, Ames is growing at a pretty bit clip. A 16.2% increase in population between 2000 and 2010, and a further 12.7% increase between 2010 and 2022. They've got enough people to consistently put about 14,000 people in their arena.
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RiverVT
5mo
(In response to this post by Windows NT)
5mo
Of the typical young basketball player. Who is most often black and from an urban area.
(In response to this post by Windows NT)
5mo
GO to ashvillle Charlottesville oxford, there are a diverse venues of bars, resturants and live entertainment and hotels, that bring in 365 day destination not just for athletics. They embrace outside developers to come in. Charlottesville, Ashville Boone, Greenville even Oxford click and you dont see the whining from businessess.
Any town would be embrace hosting a 35000- 40000 biillion dollar enterprise who is the largest payroll and employer in the region. NOt blacksburg, they embrace wanting to be a small community like Grundy, with very low salaries huge unmployment and no industry,
And yes State college Pa and blacksbutg is the SAME size.
(In response to this post by Squatro)
5mo
I don’t think the Blacksburg community necessarily wants to stay small. They just don’t have a critical mass for a developing commercial base. I think every community wants to have a thriving economy, but Blacksburg doesn’t have the key factors to make it happen.
(In response to this post by 1947Sunbowl)
5mo
Then VT operates it independently without any controls from blacksburg. State property
(In response to this post by Squatro)
5mo
I went to the movies yesterday. I was the only person in the entire theatre. Some of the bars that currently exist don't stay open seven days a week these days. Many have been understaffed since COVID and haven't recovered. There used to be plenty of students willing to work jobs like that. These days not so much because they aren't "working their way through college" like past generations. The people who staff places like PKs and Champs, many or most aren't students. Lots has changed.
So yeah, VT could build that entertainment district, but when the businesses that already exist don't have enough people to full staff them (or enough business to stay open 7 days in some cases) then how does adding even more help? It would just cause closures, and we'd be right back to the same place in terms of the overall supply.
As someone else says, I think Blacksburg lacks the "critical mass" to add much more than what it has now. It seems like that for whatever new restaurant opens, another closes.
It's the same for other stuff. My HOA has changed Property Management companies for the third time in four years because they can't find anyone who can do the job competently on a consistent basis (and rates have gone up $100 a month over the last two years). As of Friday, the town hasn't emptied the garbage dumps in my neighborhood in about three weeks. When I needed a new top for my car a few years back, I could only find one place between Bburg, Cburg and Radford that could do it. There's just not enough quantity of "talent" in the area to expand the infrastructure very much, IMO.
Now, you can quite possibly point to poor local leadership as part of the reason for that. It probably is. But even if elite leadership came in and took over, it would take quite awhile to get things moving in the other direction.
** Edited by Chris Coleman at 2/9/2026, 1:27:10 PM
(In response to this post by 1947Sunbowl)
G
GBOHokie
5mo
Of my girls. That is tuition and room and board. But both worked some. Honestly I didn’t want it to interfere with education. They both worked 10 to 15 hours (full time in the summers) a week as servers and or barista's etc for extra spending cash. With as many students as Virginia Tech has, even if some percent worked 10 to 15 a week you would think there would be plenty.
(In response to this post by Chris Coleman)
5mo
when Blacksburg and VT were much smaller. There are Blacksburg Facebook pages where people whine throughout the year about development and VT's expansion.
(In response to this post by Squatro)
2
2hhoop3
5mo
is Blacksburg has/had local leadership much more concerned with lining their own pockets and/or consolidating their own power and influence than doing things to benefit their constituents or the area. The former mayor high tailing it out of town ahead of the posse is just one exhibit.
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hok1eboy
5mo
** Edited by hok1eboy at 2/8/2026, 2:05:41 PM
(In response to this post by Squatro)
5mo
(In response to this post by Squatro)
5mo
Lubbock has 260k population. Both teams also pay there players ALOT more money
There are so many delusional hokie fans that think Blacksburg is heaven and kids should want to come here no matter what.
Comparing Lubbock and Dallas to Blacksburg maybe the worst comparison I have ever seen.
(In response to this post by Windows NT)
5mo
Its the lack of vision and hope
Let it be known, blacksburg, VT will grow and succeed with or without your cooperation. They can be part of the solution or be the ghetto areas that are left behind. VT has alot of land they can develop without Blacksburg
Also just wait. in 5 years lane goes to 70k natoinal folks coming in. Sleepy hollow and barney fife staff left behind
(In response to this post by AnotherTechW)
5mo
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5mo
Number two, are you really invoking Penn State on a basketball message board?
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RJHokie
5mo
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5mo
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5mo
But the others matter too. That is why I think we will do a lot better in the portal than with high school kids. The veteran players know that coaching and playing time are most important, and they understand where they will fit.
(In response to this post by Windows NT)
5mo
Just harder. For most basketball players it’s a pretty big culture shock. Certainly not all of them.
(In response to this post by Windows NT)
5mo
cause 3 NCAA and a sweet 16 is based on recruiting or coach?
(In response to this post by Squatro)
5mo
Who also bent the rules. And who had no allegiance to VT. And recruited for his new team a full year before he left. I reckon I’m old school, but I would rather have Coach Young.
(In response to this post by VermontDDS)