I believe NIL & portal has broken traditional recruiting
Revolving door rosters is not the best way to develop programs in any sport.
115 Replies
S
Stech
1y
(In response to this post by Uncle Ed)
1
13HOKIE
1y
one mentions anything about the fans? Without the fans none of this exists. If no one cares there is no money for any of this. Players should have been paid years starting years ago and I'm not blaming the players but what is happening now is going to diminish the money pile greatly!
(In response to this post by Uncle Ed)
1y
(In response to this post by 13HOKIE)
1
13HOKIE
1y
Are you one of those people who have no idea how things are paid for? Or do you think the government pays for it all. Or maybe you are just stupid? Gotta be one of the three.
(In response to this post by ancient alien 2018)
1y
now. you're off to mute land genius!!
(In response to this post by 13HOKIE)
1
13HOKIE
1y
Seriously let see it?
(In response to this post by ancient alien 2018)
1y
And if they move, they should be locked indoors for a full year
I wonder if fans like paying taxes
(In response to this post by 13HOKIE)
R
RCush13
1y
Make players and coaches sign similar contracts. Head coaches have buyouts that their new school pays. Players can transfer as many times as they want, but if they sign a 3 million for 3 year contract, and want to transfer after one year, have a buyout clause the new school pays (or the player pays if they want). It would give everyone equal rights to move but would probably also make players and schools think twice before going so heavy on transfers. It would also put a lot more emphasis on player development again. No new school is buying out a contract of a player that doesn’t produce.
** Edited by RCush13 at 5/17/2025, 11:26:56 PM
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
1y
(In response to this post by RCush13)
1y
Let's allow athletes to unionize so they can collectively bargain for that to happen
(In response to this post by RCush13)
1
13HOKIE
1y
I assume you are just having fun but seriously do you ever see things from a fan's perspective? It's becoming less interesting every year & most that I know are finding other things to do. Most of us don't have a lot of money to throw around & there is a lot of competition for entertainment dollars.
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
1y
But new fans are born every day and the beat goes on
(In response to this post by 13HOKIE)
1y
if you look at the sum total. I get what you are saying about losing fans. But more keep coming to replace the lost ones - at least for now.
(In response to this post by 13HOKIE)
1
13HOKIE
1y
TV money trails behind rating by several years. Attendance is already declining & the under 30 generation is not watching sports at the level that over 30's did. I'm willing to bet in 3 to 5 years most college sports are going to be going the way of NASCAR. Still running but a shell of it's former self. I'll ask you the same question that I have asked previously. When was the last time any decision was made that cared at all about the fans? Players should have always gotten a piece of the pie but part of the price that they may have to pay is limits on movement etc. Free agency for all at the end of every year is absolutely crazy.
(In response to this post by HboroughHokie)
1y
We went through the golden age of college football back in the 2000's. It's really the height of the sport when you look back at that time. Before so much technology was introduced, before staff sizes ballooned up to that of a small 150 person company, before every single game was available via ESPN3 or some streaming service.
People would tune in to watch Wake Forest vs. NC State because it was good TV and maybe they had a vested interest in that game even if they didn't live in the Carolinas. Now, TV ratings for those games will likely be lower in the aggregate percentage than back in the 2000's. But, that doesn't mean viewership as a whole will decrease. Actually, it's likely to increase overall.
The reason for this is in the power of brands. Big brands, especially. More people watched the playoffs this year than any playoffs that came before it. Sure, some of that could be due to the newness of the 12-team playoff. But, a lot of it was because those games were much more exciting than the post-seasons we had before us. BCS games were fun but largely meaningless outside of trophies and bragging rights. Now, it's win or go home. And, that creates a lot of excitement. Not to mention the fact you get to see college football pageantry with the 1st round games.
People tune in to watch schools they love. They also tune in to watch schools they hate. While the Wake Forest's of the world might see some viewership decline over the next 5 years, I guarantee you ratings for Ohio State, Alabama, USC, Michigan, Penn State, Florida, etc games will continue to increase. People living in California will become Ohio State fans. People living in Texas may become Penn State fans. The game will become more national and less regional. While that feels like a death sentence to those who like the regionality of the sport, it'll be a breath of fresh air to others who saw regionality as too constraining.
College basketball will operate the same way. And while we may have seen the sport peak over the last 10 years, the sport will continue to grow in popularity through the creation of bigger brands. This is no different than social media's growth over the last 15 years through the creation of only a several companies. You could argue having more choices back in the 1990's and early 2000's was better but there are more people using social media now than in 2010 even if social media usefulness peaked long ago.
Tl;dr: Big brands will continue to drive viewership growth in college football and college football though that viewership may come at the behest of smaller brands who may see less viewership and less coverage.
(In response to this post by 13HOKIE)
1
13HOKIE
1y
Are they possible becoming too much like the NBA, NFL & are they going to be able to compete in that space? In your example above the California fan is more likely to start rooting for an NFL team in my opinion. Are the big brands going to get all the TV eyeballs & effectively starve everyone else of TV money. Once that happens are donors going to still give like they do now & are fans going to come to games at current ticket prices? Once all of that starts going downhill it's going to be hard to stop. If all of that happens the top players in the top group will do well but so many others will lose out.
I have no answers as to what the solution is. But I do know that greedy schools & coaches has caused this problem. Just hope that some solution is made that treats the players well & doesn't in the end hurt the revenue side. Just believe that what is happening now isn't the solution. No way that Belichick should be getting 10 million plus & yet some players get very little or nothing. So many other things I could say but I better get back to work.
(In response to this post by MBHokie90)
1y
A transition for a decline. In some cases, they can coincide with one another but the ratings and interest overall in college sports isn't showing that. Ratings are up across the board. This March Madness tournament was the most watched March Madness tournament of all-time. Same with the college football playoffs.
My point is that like most transitions fans will be lost but fans will also be won. That person who has never paid attention to college sports may be more of a fan now that the sport isn't viewed as so exploitative. The Nascar example also works both ways. The less it's viewed as a sport for rednecks the more the sport can grow (even if those in NC/SC feel somewhat left behind).
But, I will admit, college athletics desperately needs a strong central power structure that can enforce rules, keep colleges in line, and keep the more financially enhanced institutions from succumbing to the greed of it all and buying their way to titles. Until that happens, we are in for a rocky transition period.
(In response to this post by 13HOKIE)
1
13HOKIE
1y
that is why I feel the way I do. Unless that happens fan engagement is going to decline IMO. Fans want/need drama & hope or they will lose interest.
(In response to this post by MBHokie90)
1
13HOKIE
1y
that rating will start to drop there also. I would love to revisit this conversation in about 4 years. I will admit (and actually hope) that I am wrong. Not so sure that you would ever admit you are though. I understand that you think players should have the right to move every year, I get that. But it really makes it hard for us fans to know & root for the players, watch them develop etc. I used to know VT's roster in basketball & football. I couldn't name 25 players that will be on next years football team & not 5 on the basketball team. I know at least a hundred hokie fans that are any age from 15 to 75. Every single one of them feel the same way. Very few go to games anymore & most are 50/50 on watching games if they are on tv.
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
1y
You can be wrong right now
Not a word of what you said is true...the first round of the NCAA Tournament drew the most viewers since 1993
The Final Four saw a 21% increase in viewership and the highest total since 2017
This is comical levels of being wrong, and being defiant about being so wrong
(In response to this post by 13HOKIE)
1
13HOKIE
1y
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
1y
You stated regular season viewership was down
The lie detector test determined that was false and that regular season viewership was up 9% on ESPN, 6% on ESPN2 and 3% on ABC
You stated "after this year's tournament" as though something negative happened in this year's tournament
The lie detector test determined that was false and that there was higher viewership in the early rounds than at any point in the last 30 years, and that the Final Four saw growth not only over every year in the NIL era, but every year since 2017
You're wrong. You're wrong now. You'll be wrong later. But your entire premise is built on either a lie or ignorance of actual facts
(In response to this post by 13HOKIE)
1
13HOKIE
1y
such a condescending jerk. I love reading your thoughts on basketball because your insight in matched by none on this board. But on all other comments you are such an know it all *******. I really hope that you are much happier and pleasant in your real life. I will make sure to never interact with you again on this board. Sorry for ticking you off & have a nice day/life.
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
1y
You stated viewership was starting to decline
I stated "no...it isnt"
Very simple
Your response to that included that I would somehow never admit I'm wrong. It also stated things that were factually inaccurate both about TV ratings and my own stance on athlete movement.
So let's get this straight...
1) you made a false statement
2) I responded saying that wasn't the case
3) you responded to make it personal for literally no reason
4) I bring receipts to show you that you were wrong
5) I'm the *******
You don't get to attack and then play the victim. You don't get to lie and not get called out. Saying you're wrong on a verifiably false statement isn't being an *******. You chose to make it a personal thing and I followed suit
...and you got your feelings hurt.
I'm sorry it turned out this way for you, but the blame isn't shining on my end
(In response to this post by 13HOKIE)
This is why I hope the blue bloods form a P1 soon. And I hope VT
is not in the P1 of about 30 schools.
Let the remaining schools form a new division and reorganize into regional conferences that make sense.
Sounds like fun to me. Good food. Good fellowship. And good football competition. Throw in revenue sharing for players with some limits on transfers. Much reduced staff costs.
(In response to this post by 13HOKIE)
1y
They felt the same in professional sports when they allowed free agency and took away salary caps
No one batted an eye when colleges saw exponential profits off college sports that caused conference realignment and uneven TV deals forcing conferences to be obsolete.
No one cared when coaches moved around with zero restrictions whatsoever, leaving behind the players they recruited, the families they made promises to and universities who sunk resources into their programs.
No, the real demons are when the players finally are able to legally make money off their worth. They're finally doing the exact same that everyone else is doing and **this** is what broke college sports??
People adapted to free agency and a lack of salary caps and now somehow those sports are supremely profitable. Somehow, someway, I think fans will adapt and get over these superficial concerns.
It's the new norm, yes. But only for athletes. Everyone else has operated like this for decades and people should look inward if you take issue with athletes, but said nothing about everyone else involved for the last 5 decades
(In response to this post by Uncle Ed)
1y
I can tell you for a fact that the only thing I really got upset with is when Tom Landry found out he was fired on his hotel TV in San Antonio. Disgraceful. !!!
None of any of the bullet points you presented ever crossed my radar screen.
The present structure is a clear and present danger to VT athletics and I doubt “Somehow, someway, I think fans will adapt and get over these superficial concerns.”
These are NOT superficial concerns. 🥹
VT CANNOT WIN AN ARMS RACE and will be irrelevant very soon.
This whole thing reminds me of the Tulip market crash several centuries ago.
You look after the players … I’m looking after the university and therein lies the difference between me and you.
If someone can’t bring this back into balance soon it will be too late …,and you aren’t looking for a solution… only protecting players at VT’s expense. 🤔
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
1y
It somehow does not surprise me a single bit that what im saying "hasn't crossed your radar screen"
** Edited by GCHokie34 at 5/17/2025, 9:08:22 PM
(In response to this post by VPI63)
1y
doesn't ring true. Even allowing for a little hyperbole...there are plenty of instances where people have taken issue with coach movement and the ensuing fallout.
Plus I think one has to recognize that losing one coach and bringing one in within a 5 year period feels a lot different from losing 20 players and bringing 20 new ones in via portal in the same timeframe feels a lot different to a fan.
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
1y
Between being angry that someone is leaving vs believing their ability to leave is killing college sports
If we were all sitting here and saying "man, I don't like that Player X is leaving" then yeah, I'm in the same boat. But we're in a thread where the premise is "Player Xs ability to leave is killing college sports" and that's simply never even been hinted at on the coaches side where its been happening since 1901 without consequence.
(In response to this post by Pylons)
1y
Also pro sports have salary caps. Yes free agency with no rules is killing college sports. Make them full pros and setup leagues with parity and rules
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
1y
Not once did I have to pay a buyout
Head coaches have buyouts, but they don't pay them, their new school does.
There is zero ramifications for any coach at any level to move schools at any time
(In response to this post by Hokey Pokey)
B
Blueboy
1y
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
1y
That would help with the rich schools buytup all the talent
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
1y
But im not against that idea
I'm saying coaches do not pay buyouts, they dont sit out any time period. They can leave while actively coaching their current team.
In some instances, they can actually agree a year in advance to coach another program, use up all the resources of the program they will be leaving and then still be considered by some to have left the program in a better place.
Are those coaches vilified? No, they're celebrated for some odd reason.
Can you imagine if Rodney Rice had used up all of VTs official visits on his way out the door?
(In response to this post by Hokey Pokey)
1y
How many years now and people are still bent out of shape about him?
** Edited by Pylons at 5/18/2025, 1:26:16 PM
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
1y
(In response to this post by Pylons)
1y
You plainly stated hasn't happened: "Are those coaches vilified? No, but..." 🤷
It's not either/or.
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
1y
He's vilified for taking a job a year early, using VT resources to recruit for Texas A&M, leaving VT with zero visits then formally leaving
(In response to this post by Pylons)
1y
I don't think VCU fans feel the same way about Shaka Smart as VT does Buzz
(In response to this post by Pylons)
1y
"In some instances, they can actually agree a year in advance to coach another program, use up all the resources of the program they will be leaving and then still be considered by some to have left the program in a better place.
Are those coaches vilified? No, they're celebrated for some odd reason."
Also you:
"He's vilified for taking a job a year early, using VT resources to recruit for Texas A&M, leaving VT with zero visits then formally leaving"
Cliffs notes:
Coaches aren't vilified for what Buzz did.
Also, Buzz was vilified for what Buzz did.
Carry on with arguing with yourself.
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
1y
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
1y
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
1y
He was never going to be at VT long term, I don't think anyone was under that impression. But I think a basic level of expectation is that you not get paid to recruit for another school and burn away all its resources
(In response to this post by AnotherTechW)
1y
Serious question - not arguing
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
1y
But they were in the midst of one of their best teams in school history. Do you work against yourself there?
Could you seek damages? Sure, if there were a paper trail. You don't get to Buzz's level of slime while leaving a paper trail though.
I think they wound up simply petitioning for the visits back. But I don't know that for sure.
(In response to this post by AnotherTechW)
1y
I'm not necessarily agreeing about the "killing" but coach mobility and player mobility are definitely different animals...the fact that coaching changes haven't been hinted at as killing isn't incongruent with feel that unfettered player transfers might be.
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
1y
The problem is not the portal, in a vacuum. The problem is not NIL, in a vacuum. It's the combination of both. It's that college sports has become a "league" with total free agency for every player after every season. With no draft, no salary cap, not one single mechanism to give smaller budget/smaller market teams one shred of hope that they can compete.
Name me a successful pro sports league with that kind of setup. I'll wait.
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
1y
But its only the players who should have those things...because...literally no reason whatsoever
** Edited by GCHokie34 at 5/17/2025, 2:27:13 PM
(In response to this post by Gobbler Guru)
H
hokieZ71
1y
No penalty. Buzz didn’t exactly do VT any favors when he left. Mostly the opposite.
Coaches can also cheat to the point they cause sanctions on the schools and players to miss postseason opportunities to showcase their skills. Then the coaches just leave, maybe even collect a buyout, possibly just lay low for awhile then also get another paycheck somewhere else and build back to getting a head job at NC State.
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
1y
Athletics as there is no way VT can win this arms race.
Soon, folks will be fed up throwing good money after bad.
I’m really tired of the mindset that X is not fair so we must do Y.
Get real, the world is not fair and never has been.
You belong to the body politic that says we must destroy something because it’s not fair.
Well, guess what, I guess we need to destroy the entire world.
Why are you on here with your X’s and O’s and analysis of schemes when all that matters is $$$?
We don’t need anymore scoops and evaluations when all we need is to spend our endowment on athletics to stay in the hunt.
It’s nuts and, at some level, everyone knows that this will not end well for VT, but you continue to carry the water for VT’s athletic move into irrelevancy.
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
If the rumors are true..
That Bill Belichick is making 10-11 mil a year to be the UNC Football Coach, perhaps there should be a cap on coaching salaries at say 1 mil/yr and Carolina could take that 9-10 mil excess and have a pretty healthy portal amount in basketball for each year he is under contract. That would be a good start. Players get their long-overdue rightful share and coaches don’t hog all the athletic dept money. The players are the product, not the coaches. Have always been even when the NCAA and the college landscape didn’t recognize that fact. The players are the product.
** Edited by Rev.Zeke Vodka at 5/17/2025, 1:33:34 PM
(In response to this post by VPI63)
1y
the school and they are just kids out of high school. A coach has likely graduated college, been working their way up over years of moving around to gain experience and knowledge. How many head coaching opportunities exist? Way less than the number of opportunities for players. All of it is equally wrong at this point.
(In response to this post by Rev.Zeke Vodka)
1y
(In response to this post by 40ozDistrict)
1y
It takes all of the parts for a complete product.
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
I’m okay w/ no $ cap on coaches, but
there should be a cap on number(a) of coaches, analysts, tape reviewers, etc. when Alabama can have a staff:player ratio approaching 1:1, not good or fair.
(In response to this post by Rev.Zeke Vodka)
V
VTCALS72
1y
To me it is very simple, college sports is about students at a school playing competitive sports for that school against other students. These are no longer primarily college students playing for the school they chose to get a degree from, these are now professionals who may or may not be even "show" students.
I guess each fan has a breaking point. I am sure baseball lost lifetime fans over free agency. I do not care about what else happened as adding wrongs doesn't make it right.
I would agree there was a huge amount of dishonesty associated with "revenue" sports for a long long time. I hated that too. But when the breaking point for me does hit, it will be because I see VT jerseys worn by a nearly a whole squad that does not give a rip about "Ut Prosim," or being a part of VT. Instead of "That I may serve" it is now pay me more. And yes, I agree that it was not the players who started this. It was schools (cough sec) who first built football teams from marginal or non students and covered for them with academic fraud.
I hope for a break off with VT being in the true "college" division rather than the pro division. If the time energy and wear and tear of a sport become too great for athletes to be competitive in the classroom, cut the winter work outs, cut the amount of time needed out of the classroom. Cut the nation wide travel until playoffs. Yeah, I know I am dreaming. But a guy can dream.
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
1y
less know how “”people felt “ then .
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
1y
Were they writing on walls in 1971?
(In response to this post by uber hokie)
1y
curious as to how you knew what people were thinking before you were born. That’s quite a talent. That’s beyond all knowing !
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
1y
None of us were alive...how can we possibly know?
Anyone know if Native Americans were surprised to see white Europeans sail ashore for the first time? We will never know. Lost to the hands of time, I guess
(In response to this post by uber hokie)
1y
equal historical events. Much like Pearl Harbor and the annual drill field snow ball fight. Once again you have proven your all knowingness.
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
1y
It isn't "all knowingness" to...ya know...read
(In response to this post by uber hokie)
J
jrc3rd
1y
(In response to this post by uber hokie)
1y
sports writer are a part of the 5 th element and we all know the media always has its finger on the pulse of the feeling of we the people.
(In response to this post by jrc3rd)
1y
athletes making money for their talent
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
V
VTCALS72
1y
It is colleges essentially running professional athletic programs.
If the players were all that valuable, start a semi or fully pro league sponsored by somebody other than colleges.
But without colleges, the vast majority of the players worth is nearly zero. It is not the players who are the "meat" of the income derived, it is the college platform.
(In response to this post by Scream_On_D)
1y
they don't slam that colleges are running pro athletic programs (which is what you wrote). Your idea that players can go off and form their own semi or pro league by themselves is a laughable and unrealistic joke. Why would they do that when college basketball and football have been set up to be semi-pro sports programs making millions for decades. Decades. Yes, decades. The "only" thing that has changed now is that the players/athletes/workers are starting to make some money - that's it - and some old posters don't like it.
(In response to this post by VTCALS72)
1y
Maybe it is time for overpaid coaches and players to form and fund their league and pay colleges and universities copyright fees for the use of their names and logos
(In response to this post by VTCALS72)
V
VTCALS72
1y
32 or so places playing pro ball under some sort of facility and brand name rental agreement with the bluebloods.
(In response to this post by hammerhead)
1y
The player gets mad about playing time and decides to move on and play rest of season at another school. What happens then.
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
1y
Nothing about NIL or the transfer portal either encourages or makes easier leaving in the middle of the year
NCAA has rules against that...ask them to enforce them maybe?
(In response to this post by 1980VT)
NCAA is an impotent dinosaur
They react based upon the latest class action or threat thereof.
The filthy rich are going to break away from the wannabes and vertically integrate administration of their competitions into their own tax exempt creation, one they control absolutely with an iron fist.
When the P2 media contracts renew the NCAA loses them.
Note: yes I know the Presidents of the member institutions created the NCAA. What is created can be destroyed. There will be money damages lawsuits but that will be a comparative speed-bump for the elite.
** Edited by tallahasseehokie at 5/16/2025, 10:17:33 PM
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
Too many transfers. Everyone should be
allowed to move, but not every year.
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
K
KCHokie2
1y
** Edited by KCHokie2 at 5/17/2025, 3:11:17 AM
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
1y
Whatever the contract would be I really don’t know. Let’s have some accountability with everyone. Let’s see how this all plays out.
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
1y
They'd need to be able to collectively bargain
If the players and the NCAA could somehow come to an...agreement...collectively...it would be a...bargain
(In response to this post by Midwestguy)
1y
However, something needs to be done or the majority of the ACC schools will NOT be able to compete very well against the majority of the SEC, quite a few Big 10 schools and a few ACC schools.
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
S
Squatro
1y
All of the transferring and upheaval is very bad for the sport. Fans like to get to know the players and teams.
Ideally it would be best if the teams had equal resources (see NFL). Of course this is just a pipe dream.
The current system is in disequilibrium. Something has to change.
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
1y
that's like thinking rich people will want to give their money away to poor people
(In response to this post by Squatro)
1y
In the coffin. When fans stop caring ( as majority of people over 40 years old have) it’s broken.
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
1y
Y’all dropping out.
(In response to this post by uber hokie)
1y
Somehow they kept moving forward and people kept showing up to hand over their money
(In response to this post by uber hokie)
1y
are there.
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
1y
due to the fact that each of these schools enroll thousands of new fans every single year. People root for the jersey, doesn't matter nearly as much as to who's wearing it. Not to mention, the locale these teams play every year remains the exact same, which was one of the problems with NASCAR was when races moved away from it's southeastern roots and into soulless cookie cutter venues.
College sports can certainly suffer from future contraction and likely will. However, those claiming it already has here and will fall off as drastically as NASCAR, well they're only using their emotion and wishful thinking because they think it's all a giant bummer.
(In response to this post by uber hokie)
1y
Or the drivers haven't been paid for 50 years?
(In response to this post by uber hokie)
1y
Average fan is priced out of the market by ever escalating prices. Attendance falls and once rabid fans bases dry up.100,000 seat venues are 25% full. There is a limit to what fans will endure and the current madness is not sustainable.
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
1
13HOKIE
1y
make sure to protect revenue also which seems like no one is concerned about. Colleges have taken advantage of athletes for years but somehow fans are the ones that are expected to pay for that.
(In response to this post by uber hokie)
1
13HOKIE
1y
like the NCAA is now. I agree that players should have been paid long ago but what is happening now is crazy. Total free agency every year among other things. I don't blame the players at all. This is on the colleges & the NCAA itself but it's still going to kill the entire system. IMO college sports are starting to compete with professional leagues & that isn't going to work very well. Do you think that maybe they are trying to blow up the system so they can go back to not paying the players at all again? Seriously think might be what is going on.
** Edited by 13HOKIE at 5/17/2025, 1:06:49 PM
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
