Just curious....will a loss to Marshall this weekend change any opinions?
There seems to be two camps of fans right now. Those that are preaching "give it time" and "it's only year two", and those that are ready to fire the whole lot and start new again. I don't believe a win over Marshall will prove anything. However, I'm curious if a loss changes the opinion of anyone. I personally think a loss will continue the downwards trajectory. After this game, it doesn't get any easier, with Pitt, @FSU, Wake, Cuse, etc. About the only game left on the schedule that looks good on paper is UVA, only because they are in a worse state than us!
Contrary to other thoughts on QB, I think starting Wells is the play this weekend. He has something to prove and he's facing his former team. Could be the right recipe for him to have a great game.
78 Replies
2y
If we have any winners on this staff, they will get frustrated with the direction and start to splinter off. Pry can only hold this together for so long on ah shucks and NIL-sponsored helicopter swagger. On game day, some men have to step up and make a play. We'll probably lose a guy like Fontel Mines who sees the dysfunction and decides to find another opportunity. I imagine Pry has a harder time selling his highly paid staff than recruits given what we know about Whit's admin. It's a tough job.
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2y
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2y
We are bad. Really really really bad.
Like the old Duke we used to mock. Like the old Temple we used to mock. We just got RUTs'd by Rutsgers, for cryin' out loud. We're ESPN "bottom 10" worthy. Often.
We're possibly (UVA nod) the worst team in the ACC. Think on that.. And the worst for as long as since today's recruits were long ago in middle school. Our 1990s success is as irrelevant to them as Carlisle Indian School's success was to 1970s recruits. Vick as much a long-ago figure as Bronco Nagurski would have been for some of us.
I love my Hokies. Love the burg. But we're terribly broken and need a fix. Stat.
With the atmosphere, energy and loyalty our fans bring so consistently, it is darn near inexcusable.
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VPI_1998
2y
that was against possibly the worst P5 team in the nation, although us and UVA could lay claim to it also. If VT doesn't win tomorrow, then this year's record will likely be worse than last year's because we probably only have 2 wins left in us AT BEST. Maybe UVA and possibly either BC or Pitt (yes I said Pitt - they look simply dreadful this year)
(In response to this post by apbaker73)
If we lose the season is pretty much a waste
Not sure we would make a bowl game at that point and it’ll be time to just focus on next season
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I’m not in the “fire the whole lot” crowd but this game feels like the last
Chance to salvage the season. And if the season ends in a dumpster fire, I don’t see how there aren’t some staff changes.
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Stakes are high because a "rebuild" requires us to actually get better. The
trend from game to game and from year to year has been the opposite. Many, many players have actually gotten worse, as one can see from CC's subscription article. It's really sad, in fact.
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2y
quarters. My fear is our team mentality may be to play not to lose. If I see genuine chip-on-the-shoulder fire and energy, discipline, crisp plays, hard hitting from the Hokies yet still come up short, I will be upset but encouraged.
If I see walk-thru energy and slop, my opinion will definitely take a turn.
** Edited by Maroon Unit at 9/22/2023, 4:58:10 PM
(In response to this post by apbaker73)
I don't want to sound negative, but no, it won't change my opinion
about the HC/staff. I still hope for success and to be proven WRONG.
As far as Wells starting, you make an interesting point. Has Drones proven to be money??...if the gameplan is to sling it, then Wells makes cents.
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2y
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2y
cameo appearance for his old school. 🤓
** Edited by VPI63 at 9/22/2023, 4:19:38 PM
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To be fair he wasn’t that good at throwing to green either
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2y
This team and coaches are way too accepting of losses.
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But he deserves any criticism he is getting as ultimately he didn't, or maybe even couldn't, bring in the assistance he needed. In spite of any promises, he, and Whit, should have anticipated the heat would be there from donors and fans alike. I hope this week is the week that Bowen and Marve find what it is that the Head Whistle thought they possessed. Our personnel situation doesn't leave them much room for error.
** Edited by likehokies at 9/22/2023, 3:50:22 PM
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He is going to get paid whether he fixes anything or not. I really don't
think he would have turned down the job if he didn't get assurances of time. And I sure hope that wasn't discussed at all. Why would you want to tell a guy he has plenty of time? He will likely take it if that is the case. His feet should have been put to the fire the day after he signed on the dotted line, if that were possible. But unfortunately, it is not. He is guaranteed the money regardless of outcomes. Enjoy.
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NOFX
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2y
Pry, no, he gets the whole season.
Whit, yes, we lose and he should be fired immediately. He choose Pry over the Marshal coach. If marshal beats Pry in year 2 it’s the final straw that Whit should not be making any future coaching decisions.
(In response to this post by apbaker73)
Whit should’ve been fired with Fuente
To be fair, John Ballein needs to be gone first
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2y
1. We have a talent problem
2. We have a coaching experience problem
3. We have money problems
Whit can't fix 1. Time can heal 2. Whit has improved 3.
I guess we can blame Whit for 2. But does anybody think his first choice was a first time HC that could only hire first time coordinators? Maybe Huff would have worked, but if you remember, Whit was still being yelled at for allowing the last G5 guy to bring his G5 staff along for a toilet flushing spiral.
It's a hard business. Everybody wants proven, but why does proven want to come here? I'm sure Whit would rather just offer more money to a more qualified option. But why would he take it?
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RiverVT
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Zero experience in football operations!
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My hunch is that any AD meeting that description would likely be coming from a place already compensating him or her very well.
As far as leadership, it seems Whit has been excellent at everything except the one thing every other AD struggles with as well, finding the winning football coach.
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Kudelski
2y
The team needs an injection of talent at all positions.
(In response to this post by apbaker73)
I want to see Drones, not Wells.
I don't care if we are playing Wells' former team or not. And I really don't buy into the fact that he will be more motivated. I think he's plenty motivated. I just don't think he's very good.
1. I think our chances of winning are better with Drones.
2. Drones is the future and needs to get experience.
3. Wells has been given plenty of chances.
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fordham
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Every year or two then like most other teams that try that route we will end up much much poorer financially and still suck. So we need to give the new crew some time. For an example see the noles
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ord in his first six seasons was 24-40-2, a win percentage of . 385. After the team went 2–8–1 in 1992, athletic director Dave Braine believed in Beamer and thought he deserved more time. Give Pry at least 4-5 years. Unless you have a spare quarter of a billion dollars to donate to buy players and coaches.
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2y
It was a unicorn event is all of college football history. And yet some of you believe it WILL happen again if we have enough patience. It's just sad.
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Yes, but the AD made Beamer clean house of assistants after those 2 years
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coaching changes after the 2-8-1 season that year.
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RiverVT
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To get the football operations right?
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RJHokie
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that’s kinda what happened. Dave, being a former football coach, provided Frank with some “fatherly” advice that basically said that hiring your friends doesn’t mean they are good coaches, and you need to make changes (for your own good). And Dave then secured additional funds to make the hires happen.
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Disagree totally - today’s NIL program and the portal negates the five year
Plan of taking one’s time and expecting your fan base to be patient … see Colorado, Duke etc
I for one won’t be content to wait for something that may never occur!
As George Allen the great Redskins coach once said- the “ future is now”..our mistake was in not hiring an existing HC and now Pry is learning on the job… you can see it every game..
** Edited by sacramento hokie at 9/22/2023, 3:35:33 PM
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2y
Probably every HC was a coordinator before they got their first job as HC.
** Edited by uber hokie at 9/22/2023, 10:35:43 PM
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Was the portal and NIL in place then?????????*
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We can't say that to the kids and then cut a ton of them to load up on 40 portal players. It would destroy the perception of what VT is trying to do.
So we stick with our strategy of getting the high school players we want, developing them, and selectively adding portal transfers around them to fill needs and add depth.
You are right that we can't wait 5 years like in the past. But our approach needs at least 3 years to start paying off. And for reference, that is exactly the same as what FSU did. Norvell won 3 games and 5 games his first two years. Then last year they won 10 games in year 3. And this year in year 4 they are ranked #4 in the country. That is the path and goal for VT.
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2y
like Vt does? Someone in the thread mentioned apples and oranges for something else. Applies here as well
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2y
2 and START ALL OVER AGAIN. Hard to develop anything if we constantly let coaches go because they are not Coach Prime. We will not get any decent HC with experience if they think that they only have a year or two to turn a program around that has been having issues for years. No one will any sense will want to uproot their family, move to Blacksburg, purchase a house and start over if they think they will be gone sooner than later.
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2y
I also believe everything in life is nuance and perspective. JF got 6 years when he should have been done after 3, 4 at the latest. Pry was very inexperienced and could be running the car off a cliff (he might not be but early returns indicate it’s plausible). I think most coaches would see that as we hired 2 bad coaches in a row and fixed that last mistake quickly. But they are hiring me and I’m a good coach so different situation. And if I show progress and on an upward trajectory - even if slightly - I will get more time.
I fully believe the right coach will see VT with the fan base we have, recruiting area, and an easy league to play in and would jump at the chance to be the one to turn it around. Unfortunately we allegedly have the same 2 guys making the hires and they almost never pick THAT coach. They always seem to pick “the other guy.”
** Edited by Tombo at 9/22/2023, 5:26:52 PM
** Edited by Tombo at 9/22/2023, 5:27:25 PM
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2y
Like sideline brawl kind of bad. Right now, in my opinion, VT displays all the hallmarks of an average team. They're inconsistent, they do some good things (battle back to a tie or half possession after being down 3 possessions, forcing 3 and outs, etc.), they do some bad things (alignment busts causing long touchdowns, drop passes or make the wrong reads on what could be a huge offensive play), and they can't win if they lose the turnover margin, so they kind of need the other team to make a few more mistakes. You look at the records of any number of teams over the years that went like 5-7, you see results leaving you saying "how could they beat X but lose to Y and Z?"
VT has really only looked consistently bad at running the ball. The long touchdowns drive people nuts but they're not consistently bad at stopping the run. A few years ago, I forget when exactly, VT played both Pitt and GT close to one another, and they were giving up like 6 yards per carry at minimum. Like that was a way worse run defense performance, to give up so much yardage on every single snap.
Anyway, if VT loses because Marshall never fumbles and doesn't throw any interceptions, VT turns the ball over 1 or more times, and everything else looks the same, sometimes they score, sometimes they go 3 and out, etc., my opinion won't really change.
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2y
But a loss here would make it a much steeper climb for this team to finish .500 or better and/or make a bowl. Sitting at a 1-3 record would make that pretty unlikely. 2-2 and it seems a lot more doable.
Before the season started, I predicted we'd go 5-7 this year, with a heavy number of losses early in the season. I said we needed to at least get a split in the Rutgers and Marshall games, so I'm really hoping for a win here. My guess is we'll go into the late October bye week looking terrible with something like a 2-5 record, then right the ship somewhat over the last few games. Likely wins over a bad BC team and an absolutely terrible UVA team, plus we'll spring an upset on Syracuse, NC State, or Louisville. That would be progress over last year's 3 win season, at least.
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2y
Opportunity to get to 3ws/1-0 conference and nearly assure a better w/l record 22 vs 23...A loss here will 2x the neg volume or worse..make folks check-out/move-on...
we have the talent to take care of business this week, but nothing is given...they have to take-it
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including mass exodus through TP which I don’t see happening, he will get a 3 rd year.
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VT would NEVER fire Pry
Until the money people push hard. Whit won’t do it until his job is on the line.
That said- give him his 3-4 years and add up the ledger.
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2y
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Not sure what the buyout is, but I think it's too early.
But one more year like the first year and half, and I think it's probably over. Plenty of time to turn it around though.
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2y
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Excellent post! That is very encouraging, and I take back most of what
I have said. Incentives are the way to go!
** Edited by Coach McGuirk at 9/22/2023, 4:44:30 PM
(In response to this post by techer1983)
So it's $12.6m after this year, $9.45m after next year.
A little pricey for my tastes. But I am rooting for him to succeed regardless, and I'm relatively patient. But I am underwhelmed so far. I hope he gives us more to be excited about.
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Lose tomorrw and im firmly in the get ride of the coaching staff (minus Pry for now) camp.
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I know coaches try to prepare for injuries, but firing everyone because of it is a little extreme. If subs look totally overmatched, the coaches may need to re-evaluate how they are preparing the team for the season.
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2y
And Field Goal kicker to be replaced because, God forbid, a lousy punt and missed field goal. Ridiculous the way some people act.
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** Edited by VTHokie2000 at 9/22/2023, 1:46:45 PM
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give another year to Pry as long as he changes the Offensive staff. If he is not willing to do that then he better be gone as he can't or refuses to identify the issues.
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VPI_1998
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or 2-10. I don't think Pry will be fired this year no matter what the record, unless there is cause. If VT has those records and Pry sticks with the same staff and there is no measurable improvement from last year, the fanbase will probably check out for next year even before it starts, and that is not good. There's still time to show improvement but it must start tomorrow, otherwise I don't see it happening.
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