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Pride_and_Joy OP
Feb 20, 2024 at 10:48 PM ET
For those that say Blacksburg is an obstacle to attracting bball talent…
how do you explain the success of a program like Creighton?

151 Replies

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Shbolf
The secret NOW is $$$$$$$$$$$
NIL and they will come…. I’d even play in C’Ville….WELL,,,, maybe not…..
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GCHokie34
Pretty easy actually..
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WildTurkE
How was Seth getting Montrezl Harrell to Blacksburg?
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GCHokie34
First, Harrell wasn't out of the recruiting profile for VT...
And is exactly the type of player VT should target. VT beat Wake, Clemson, Miami and UVA for Harrell when he committed to VT. He committed right after a win over Duke, and he was rated in the 80s of the Top 100. I've always said 80 to 120 is where VT can live comfortably and they can identify market inefficiencies in other prospects. For Harrell, he was 6'7/6'8 as a post player, but he had super long arms and a lot of athleticism. That kept his profile just low enough to be in VTs wheelhouse. As far as WHY Harrell chose VT over the others, this is from an article with an interview from a Louisville publication ____________________________ When he committed to Virginia Tech… “We just hit it off,” Greenberg said. “We developed a trust. He wasn’t a kid that needed to be enabled or have his rear end kissed.” Harrell and his father were at Tech when the Hokies upset then-No. 1 Duke on Feb. 26, 2011, capping a day in which ESPN’s “College GameDay” originated from Cassell Coliseum. Harrell — then a high school junior — verbally committed to Tech while sitting in Greenberg’s office after the game. When Seth Greenberg was fired… “He could have [done] so much for my game,” Harrell said. “When they fired him and didn’t really give a reason as to why they let him go, I felt I wanted to get out of that situation. … My whole reason of going to Virginia Tech was to play under Coach Greenberg.”
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Vippie1
Well that won't sit well with tbe old TSL Seth haters
who swore up and down after Seth was fired he was never coming to VT anyway. Where did all the dye in the wool committed Seth haters go anyway? Wish I could play back some of the total BS that was said on these boards about that man in the year or two following his ouster. Haters gonna hate.
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Cvillehoops13
Seth absolutely had his flaws, and we all have stories about that but...
...the misinformation/smear campaign that people within VT athletics pushed against him was shameful. A lot of "insiders" on message boards pushed that info and narrative as well and it still rubs me the wrong way. It has always been a very complicated thing because I didn't have a bad relationship with SG (wouldn't call it good either) and definitely saw how poorly he could treat people but knowing that it still was incredibly unfair the way he was treated by people within the athletic department. Had VT not been lucky enough to land Buzz the stories of what happened to Greenberg would've haunted the bball program for a long time - a lot of coaches, many who didn't like Greenberg, heard enough that it made VT seem like a toxic basketball job. Buzz was well aware of the stories as well but was looking for a way out of where he was and came anyway. Buzz was a masterful politician upon arrival because he was prepared knowing the dynamics that worked against Greenberg and "played" a lot of those same people to stay in their good graces. There were very clearly similar elements to how Greenberg was treated as Fuente and personality wise those two guys are nothing alike which confirmed to me that it had a lot more to do with VT than the coaches involved.
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saret
Hear! Hear! Very insightful and accurate.
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Vippie1
I think Seth had the misfortune of coaching at VT in an era
where the least consequential assistant football coach had more support and prestige then the MBB head coach. I don't think it came from CFB, but there was a lot of hubris he had to deal with.
Chris Coleman Chris Coleman
He's still hated around town by some.
I know people around town (who I know for a fact never met him) who totally despise him. And they never really had anything to say about him while he was here...only after he got fired. No doubt that Seth could rub people the wrong way, and he stayed here for too long. And I witness one or two things myself that I didn't like. But yes, like you said, there was definitely a smear campaign element to it when he departed. Blacksburg is a small town, so once people start saying things, the narrative will not change no matter what.
TomTurkey TomTurkey
I thought he managed some rough off the court situations with heart.
Illnesses, deaths of close relatives, stuff that was personal and stressful for players and the team. Teams were hard to watch play but I found him interesting to follow from couch, of course.
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GoldCoast
How was Fuente not treated fairly? He didn’t win and had to go.
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WildTurkE
In a word: Ballein. ESPN article highlights the VT's admin's dysfunction
It makes you ill just to think that VT (I'm looking at you Whit) lets this form of nepotism rot our athletic programs, considering we needed all the folks rowing in the same direction to survive this arms race. Every time I read this article I get sick on my stomach.
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GoldCoast
Thanks. Missed this.
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saret
And there is a lot more that goes on that wasn't in the article.
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NokieHokie
He wasn't given resources promised by Whit and Ballein was sabotaging him.
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NokieHokie
Great post!
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VT ChemE 1986
I don't think the fans disliked Seth
It was the administration that didn't care for him.
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Vippie1
i beg to differ
not sure about "fans" but there were a very loud vocal minority of TSL posters at the time that went after him personally and constantly for awhile on non-basketball things. it was f'in sad. most of those small-minded numbskulls have fortunately moved on.
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saret
You are correct, and it reflected very poorly on them.
I've always been of the opinion that those who posted such things were anti-semitic, and it showed.
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saret
Nah, there was some animosity towards Seth outside
the administration. A lot of the problem with how he was fired was on Weaver. He handled it very, very poorly. ** Edited by saret at 2/21/2024, 2:22:25 PM
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2hhoop3
That was at the point.......
in Weaver's illness where he really had no business being in the job himself.
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saret
Correct.
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2hhoop3
Nothing is more sad and troubling.......
than all the lives lost and affected that tragic day in April. The ripple effects of that act were enormous and some more obvious than others, there are a whole lot of what ifs for the VT Athletic Department that came out of that senseless act.
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WildTurkE
Thanks. My gut was Seth is just better at connecting with black kids
I know that sounds crass, but it's the reality in college hoops. You want those kids comfortable in a rural area away from friends/family. Seth has a city coach vibe where Young is aw shucks NRV. Seth recruited gritty dogs (Gordon and Delaney) that were tough and smart and lifted the program up. Of course he also embraced the likes of Jeff Allen. I imagine CMY would shy away from it. I wouldn't go as far as saying CMY recruits higher character because I have no clue. I just find them to be way too polite on the court when you'd want a little nasty - especially at tourney time. We get the proverbial paper boy from Oklahoma. And amazing, once in a lifetime players like Hunter. I'm guessing Young will never get the Gordon / Delaney types and that's disappointing. It feels like we're recruiting UVA like players.
vtbball80 vtbball80
Seth recruited kids bigger schools ignored and had a chip on their shoulder
Black or White. He told them - come here and we'll show them what they missed out on. Also, particularly for post players, he leaned toward better athletes, not as skilled. While I agree MY would not have recruited Allen, he certainly would have gone after Delaney (great system fit - good shooting combo guard that would play PG in his system). Same for Dowdell. Gordon would not have been a good fit - for all his positives, he didn't shoot well enough for this system.
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Pride_and_Joy OP
Zabian Dowdell is probably my favoritr
Hokie bball player. Loved that kid’s game.
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Cvillehoops13
Seth was a great recruiter and had an incredible stable of assistants...
...in his time in Bburg. Seth was incredible at building important relationships with basketball people around the state and region. Buzz was also a great recruiter and some of his assistants were also very good - but the way they recruited didn't always require that because Buzz was so heavily involved. Buzz was definitely not a "relationship builder" the way Greenberg was and wasn't bothered in the slightest to burn bridges. I think Mike Young is a good evaluator and an ok recruiter and closer. He could use really great recruiters as his staff and has had mostly solid recruiters along with whatever you want to say about Mike Jones and then Chester Frazier whom I think most people in this area think is one of the best and most tireless recruiters in the country. Mike Young has been pretty clear that building bball relationships around the state/region isn't a big priority for him but not in the scorched earth way that Buzz could approach it.
Chris Coleman Chris Coleman
Yep, I agree with all of that.
There's a reason that when Mike Jones left, the first person that Young called was Chester Frazier.
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GCHokie34
Greenberg was more of a traditional coach...
In that he recruited who he could recruit and then developed a strategy to work with those pieces. MY has a strategy and recruits to meet that philosophy. So Greenberg took a ton of chances on prospects that other coaches higher than him wouldn't touch. So while he certainly hit on Jeff Allen and Montrezl Harrell, there were swings and misses with higher profile recruits: Marquie Cooke Justin Holt Augustus Gilchrist Ben Boggs Marquis Rankin They were misses for the exact reason that other schools stayed away...but Greenberg had to take a chance that they were wrong and he could get them to play harder, smarter, etc. MY has also had some higher profile misses, but none of them have been because they couldn't actually play. They are talented players who just didn't fit within the system. They probably could have if they had stuck around...but why stick around when you can play elsewhere as a talented player So I think it's even more important for MY to identify and develop the lesser ranked recruits. Because they don't have the mentality that if they don't get a shot they'll just go elsewhere...they're simply hungry for a shot.
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Pride_and_Joy OP
It's really encouraging that the strategy is to recruit less talented
players who will just be grateful for the chance to play and won't be a flight risk if they aren't getting immediate playing time. While we're at it, let's ask the ACC to release us from the GOR so we can join the Southern Conference. I know, I know "lesser ranked recruits," not less talented ones. Us and 300 other programs in the country are looking for the under-valued talent. Why expect VT to be better at landing those recruits than any other program? We don't have a top notch recruiter. We don't have big time NIL money. Those are the things we need.
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GCHokie34
You say "I know, I know" while still having the power to edit your post...
So that leads me to believe that either: 1) you don't know 2) you know and you're being willfully ignorant
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Pride_and_Joy OP
Try to keep up...
I'm equating "lesser ranked" with "less talented" -- because, in reality, they are largely the same thing. I know you want to pretend that there is this magical path in which we recruit a roster of very talented players who don't want to leave for more NIL or a better program but who are also really good and can lead us to greater success. What I'm saying is that that's a unicorn. To build an entire roster of recruits who (1) fit MY's system, (2) are good (i.e., better than their recruiting rankings) and (3) want to remain at VT if they have tremendous success is a virtually impossible needle to thread. Get a coaching staff that can crush it in recruiting and pair them with more NIL support. Otherwise, what are we talking about?
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GCHokie34
You talk about unicorns...
As if VT has ever landed high ranked recruits with any regularity in the 100 year history of the program. Get out of here with that...
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Pride_and_Joy OP
Where did I imply that we have recruited at a high level?
I assume we’re interested in greater success. If not, keep doing what we’re doing — go after kids who are just grateful to be given a schollie and won’t transfer. And we’ll continue to be a middling program.
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GCHokie34
You're calling what VT has been doing for decades a "unicorn"...
Those are your words But then talk as though VT needs to recruit better talent as the only way to succeed. Something they literally have never done...an actual unicorn You're contradicting yourself, that's the point Keep up...
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Pride_and_Joy OP
Nope. You’re suggesting we
recruit unicorns. I’m suggesting the reason we’ve had so little success in basketball (13 NCAA tournaments in 56 years) is because unicorns are very rare and hard to recruit and we haven’t actually done it. We need to change strategies. Embrace NIL and a coach who is a recruiter first. Never said we recruit at an elite level or anything of the sort. But searching for diamonds in the rough and recruiting under valued players into a system (like MY’s) isn’t going to lead us forward. Not in today’s landscape. But I don’t know anything. You’re the expert who called NIL’s influence on basketball a “Boogeyman.” 😂
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GCHokie34
VT has recruited what you are referring to as unicorns for decades...
Hunter Cattoor, Keve Aluma, Justyn Mutts, Storm Murphy, Nahiem Alleyne, are all players ranked 200+ who won an ACC Championship Unless you are truly under the impression that unicorns actually exist then you genuinely don't know what you're talking about
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Pride_and_Joy OP
They had a great month two years ago.
Without winning that ACCT, they didn’t have a good enough season to even qualify for an at-large bid. Thrilled they won a championship. But don’t act like that group of players made us an elite ACC team. They needed that incredible run or would’ve been in the NIT. Also, future isn’t the past. Better up the ante on NIL or those diamonds in the rough will simply leave for better programs. “Boo!” says the NIL Boogeyman. 😂
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GCHokie34
Name one VT basketball player who has left due to NIL...
Boogeyman...hasn't existed Just like someone leaving VT basketball for NIL hasn't existed But hey, you think unicorns are real so...
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ancient alien 2018
Hey GC, Unicorns aren't real ( probably) but ugly, mean clowns in my closet
are there, real, and try to "get me" almost every night!!
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Pride_and_Joy OP
Right. Because we follow your strategy.
Which is to recruit guys who are just happy to have a spot. lol.
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GCHokie34
They currently try for high level athletes...
Rodney Rice, Joe Bamisile, Darius Maddox And that has turned out super well
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Pride_and_Joy OP
Right. So do better.
Don’t just give up on recruiting high level players. Unless you’re content with mediocrity.
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GCHokie34
Who is giving up?
They just signed a Top 6 all-time recruit
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Pride_and_Joy OP
So which is it? We're doing well with going after
high level talent or not? You literally just suggested each of those conclusions in your last two posts.
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GCHokie34
Your inability to draw conclusions isn't my responsibility
They can both continue to land the type of talent at the top they have done for decades, while simultaneously going after underrated players...the underrated ones will far outnumber the top level prospects, always have and always will
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Pride_and_Joy OP
There it is! The GCHokie34 go-to
“It’s not my responsibility” I love getting you wound around the axel. It’s an ancillary benefit of posting here.
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GCHokie34
It's definitely my go to for people with an inability to logic
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Pride_and_Joy OP
It’s your go-to when
you contradict yourself and aren’t making any sense and then get called on it. I just take it as an acknowledgement of defeat on your part.
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hokiekev 2k4
He'll make sure he always gets the last word in though, don't worry 😆
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GCHokie34
Lol...
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GBOHokie
So what does that say for the ceiling of MY teams? I interpret the ending
Part of your post as many of the top talent aren’t fans of the MY system. If I read right top talent would rather play where their talents are showcased. I feel like right now talent is holding us back. Is there a level of talent we can get that gets us to top 25 level of play? I am a believer that team beats individuals. But you need a certain level of talent (not necessarily top talent) for team to win. I am excited by the incoming recruits. But they will take time. In the era of transfers the time to develop is more limited. Kids are impatient.
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GCHokie34
The ceiling of MYs teams are the same as any VT team...
Rankings are dumb and shouldn't be trusted, much less recruited because of So because someone is rated 40th in the country it doesn't mean they're more talented than someone 200+, it's the opinion of one ranking service who doesn't have any knowledge of what it takes to be talented in a specific system UVA did just fine finding talent to recruit to a very similar system when they landed Kyle Guy and Ty Jerome, so it doesn't mean top level talent hates the system. But even they (after winning a national championship in the last 5 years) are finding its difficult to be more than a bubble team on an average year
Zanderhokie Zanderhokie
Don't forget about his legendary recruitment of Steph Curry.... *ducks*
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GCHokie34
If ever there was a time to take a big swing on a kid...
The dominoes that could have happened there... VT would definitely have landed Seth too and Greenberg would be staring at 6 straight years of Curry talent. Not likely to be sitting on the bubble with those talents, and Greenberg likely coaches at VT for most of the 2010s
Chris Coleman Chris Coleman
TBF, Stokes recruited Gordon.
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WildTurkE
Thanks. Didn't remember that!
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Pride_and_Joy OP
If you ain’t cheatin’, you ain’t tryin’.
vtbball80 vtbball80
No! That is litterly the worst sports mantra ever.
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Pride_and_Joy OP
Welcome to the real world, friend.
vtbball80 vtbball80
Oh, I get it. I just accept a lower ceiling of W/L success to avoid.....
falling into the trap of "the end justifies the means" - also a terrible mantra.
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NokieHokie
You misspelled the most honest.
vtbball80 vtbball80
Not "honest" - "unfortunately true" I'll give you
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Pride_and_Joy OP
We need more Creighton energy in our program.
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NokieHokie
It worked for Buzz here! :)
** Edited by NokieHokie at 2/21/2024, 10:06:24 AM
hoosnowahokie hoosnowahokie
Can't wait for his next speech about his team getting snubbed
Again for the tournament this year. Home loss last night was brutal for their chances.
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Pride_and_Joy OP
He is one weird dude, to be sure.
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NokieHokie
If I never hear a buzz speech ever again I will consider that a success...
HeisenBurg13 HeisenBurg13
You aren't missing much. I've heard him recycle speeches he gave while here
almost VERBATIM during post games and interviews at aTm. He's got his stuff down pat!
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NokieHokie
He a BS'er phony used car salesman.
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Vippie1
I hope he is a phony BSer
I hate to think he actually believes his own BS
reestuart reestuart
--as America the Beautiful plays in the background--
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2hhoop3
Or could it be.......
VT was fortunate that energy only resulted in one player sitting out a year versus potentially harsher penalties? I recognize you are poking and prodding and as I have always said Buzz did the job he was paid to come here to do. That being said, I think the total evaluation of Buzz's time in Blacksburg has multiple layers, some good, some not so good and some that VT was just lucky they were not worse than not so good.
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NokieHokie
I agree with that.
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GCHokie34
Did it?
To cheat that much and come out with 2 NCAA wins over Liberty and Saint Louis? It's either an indication Buzz Williams isn't as good as purported or even if cheating its difficult to have that level of success in Blacksburg I'll let the Buzz followers decide which
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NokieHokie
Considering VT's history? I'd say so. I'm no Buzz follower, I think he is a
slime ball phony.
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GCHokie34
Wasn't directed at you personally
I think Buzz was successful at VT in relation to the expectations and ceiling of the job. But if the question is whether or not his cheating lifted VT outside the natural profile of what the program is capable of, then he absolutely was not successful.
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Pride_and_Joy OP
A Sweet 16 and a tip-in away from a potential Elite 8 isn't outside the
"natural profile" of the program? Been to a lot of Sweet 16s, have we? I believe Buzz's team constitutes exactly the second time a VT men's basketball team has won more than one game in the NCAA tournament. Can you clarify what the "natural profile of what the program is capable of" means from your point of view? Because three straight tourney bids and a Sweet 16 sure seems to be outside the "natural profile."
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GCHokie34
Sure...
This won't satiate you in any way, because you're the least genuine person I've ever encountered...but VT is capable of winning 24 games in a season like Buzz did VT is capable of beating Liberty and Saint Louis in the NCAA Tournament VT is capable of winning 2 NCAA games in 6 years None of those were ever a question of the program I look forward to your thoughtless rebuttal
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Pride_and_Joy OP
Don't get your panties in a bunch.
You always make it so personal when someone disagrees with you. It's almost like you get angry when someone doesn't defer to your vast basketball wisdom and knowledge. That's called an identity threat. You're experiencing a status-based identity threat. It really triggers you, it seems. Winning two tourney games in six years is not the same thing as making it to the Sweet 16. So nice dodge there. But let's go with your little pivot anyway. How many times has VT won two NCAA tournament games within a six year span? In the last 50 years, it's been done twice. Buzz's 2019 team and the 1979 and 1980 teams each one one game. So again, it is quite an anomaly at VT, not "natural." I also like how you shift to "VT CAN do it." "Can" is a complete shifting of the goal posts. I'm sure there are lots of things that CAN happen or are possible -- we're talking about what is normal or within the realm of expectation at VT. If it's only happened twice in 50 years, it is abnormal.
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GCHokie34
There are only a handful I am testy with...
And it takes a sustained period of buffoonery to get to that level, so congrats VT has won 24 games (or the equivalent in years that didn't play as many games as they do now) in a regular season at least 10 times in its history and happens about once per decade. Buzz did nothing to increase or change that VT has beaten teams like Liberty or Saint Louis in the NCAA Tournament. Buzz did nothing to change that. Buzz did absolutely nothing that a previous coach hadn't done at VT, which is the very definition of not increasing the programs footprint
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Pride_and_Joy OP
So all the other coaches made it to the Sweet 16?
You have a very interesting way of keeping score. I mean, you really have to do some mental gymnastics to convince yourself that the results from Buzz are no different than the previous 50 years. You seem very committed to the conclusion, so I'm sure you'll pull of the necessary back handspring. LOL.
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NokieHokie
No disagreement there.
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Pride_and_Joy OP
Exactly.
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VTCALS72
Simple you are painting with a broad brush and looking at only a year or 2
The mass of recruits are not 100% the same. But just about all want to go to the highest profile place they can with the most NIL and have the most fun spending their NIL. Blacksburg strikes out on all 3 so yes it is an obstacle. That doesn't mean we are little sisters of the poor but it does mean we have to know that no matter the coach, we simply do not have the draw of a UNC or Duke nor the location of a Miami or DMV. That is an obstacle. Anyone who disagrees has assumed the ostrich position.
AnotherTechW AnotherTechW
Omaha has 800k in their metro area - not even close to where VT is
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Pride_and_Joy OP
It’s also extremely convenient for the excuse makers
That the line of demarcation isn’t being IN a major metropolitan area but merely being close to one. That way, they don’t have to explain KU, Duke, etc. Apparently Auburn is close enough to Atlanta but we’re not close enough to Charlotte. How big is a big enough city to attract player? Some number north of the population if Roanoke. How close to a city is close enough to attract recruits? Some distance closer than Blacksburg is to Charlotte. It sure seems like a narrative in support of facts rather than facts in support of a truth.
AbsolutVT03 AbsolutVT03
Duke and Kansas are easy to explain. They are national brands with a vast
tradition of success in men's basketball. VT does not have that. If they did then Blacksburg's location would not be nearly as much of an issue. Generally speaking when we start talking about other schools' location and success the reality is either those schools are closer to major population centers, have a ton of history/tradition to help offset their location, or both.
Chris Coleman Chris Coleman
Well, you have to look at population of the entire area.
See the map below. I've drawn a line to Clemson. There is a lot of orange and red around them. Lots of yellow and light yellow around VT, with the darkest color being orange. Higher population = more goods and services, or more "things to do" as people like to put it. When you're in a smaller population area, you simply have to do without some things. I'll give a Chris Coleman example, and a VT athletics example.... 1: When I had to get a new top for my car, I only could find one place in the entire area who could do it. Just one. 2: Tech had a women's basketball recruit once who had concerns about finding a place that could do her hair in her specific way. I know that sounds silly to some people, but it's one of the many questions that get asked by recruits that fans never even think about. Greenville, which is just next to Clemson, has a CSA population of 1.5 million. The Roanoke area, which extends all the way to Franklin County, is just 320k, or thereabouts. It's not a Blacksburg vs. Clemson thing, or a Blacksburg vs. any town thing. It's more about population density = more stuff. And again, it's not something that can't or hasn't been overcome, and in a few cases has actually been an advantage (Render and Teller, for example). My bigger concern is that North Carolina, South Carolina and Georgia are growing at a faster rate than Virginia. For example, Hampton Roads grew just 3% between 2010 and 2019. Meanwhile, Greenville, SC has grown by about 21% in the same span. Pry is right to recruit VA right now, but the long-term estimates indicate population advantages for NC, SC and GA, which means more quality football players in those states. Yeah, that's football, but I just thought I'd throw it out there. ** Edited by Chris Coleman at 2/21/2024, 10:21:50 AM
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atlhokie1
The somewhat mild argument to that is GTech is in the middle of a 5 million
person city and recruits aren't falling over themselves to go there. Of course, I imagine the academics might be a part of it.
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HokieRat
Yeah but fear of academics dont matter to schools like UVA, UNC, Duke
Its all hodgepodge of what schools have strengths/weakness of location, history, academics etc. Almost like no one can truly list one factors as the sole reason of success for a program. Everything has a caveat to it
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HokieRat
Thought the line would follow a major highway directl but surprising doesnt
Have interchanges from 385 to 26 to 20, and then state routes from Clemson to Myrtle. Greenville to Florence is 3 hours which is longer than I thought. Just a string of populated counties with probably densities at certain corners of it, that actually follow the highway system.
Chris Coleman Chris Coleman
A little more on Greenville and Spartanburg...
I've also read that the Greenville metropolitan area is expected to grow by 220k people by 2040. If that happens, the Greenville/Spartanburg might be the next Charlotte, and it's an hour or less from Clemson. An "influx of manufacturing jobs", "reinvigorated downtown" and "things to do on the weekends" seems to be the trend. Meanwhile, Roanoke has pretty much the same population as it did in 1980. If Amtrak ever makes it to Christiansburg, I'll more likely use it for a night trip to Charlotte than Roanoke.
Nortazhokie Nortazhokie
I had all but decided to retire in the Greenville area, but a few things
derailed that idea. The downtown area has been completely revamped and it's awesome. I actually love it in that area. You can go just north a few miles and be in the mountains.
MBHokie90 MBHokie90
Roanoke’s lack of growth has hurt VT…
Roanoke needs a vision to double in population by 2050. It has everything you need to grow but there’s an apprehension to committing to that growth. And because of that the city is dying from an industry and manufacturing standpoint.
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Brewing_Hokie
Roanoke leadership will never let it happen unfortunately. They kill every
Growth idea, project, whatever basically
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NokieHokie
I've been wanting to visit Greenville for a while. It seems like a much
nicer and slightly bigger version of Roanoke.
reestuart reestuart
Greenville is nice. Summer time is absolutely brutal, though.
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NokieHokie
Yeah I was thinking early Spring would be the time to go.
reestuart reestuart
The downtown area is really good. Plenty of restaurants, shops, etc.
I've only been a few times, but I really like it there. Late fall would also be great.
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Brewing_Hokie
Greenville is awesome. I love it there.
I’d move there gladly. Great place.
Chris Coleman Chris Coleman
This post by Chris Coleman removed by Tech Sideline admin
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Pride_and_Joy OP
This explains the tremendous basketball success
of Northwestern and St. John’s. 🙄 Our obstacles are NIL and coaches who can recruit and win. Those who say no one wants to come to Blacksburg haven’t spent time in Lubbock, Texas, Auburn, Alabama, or Manhattan, Kansas. Amazing how this is only an issue for us and only in bball. It’s an excuse. Or at best, one of many factors and certainly not an insurmountable one.
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VTCALS72
Just stop it with your moving the goalpost
Has anybody on here really said, "No one wants to come to Blacksburg?" I know we all apply hyperbole but really? Your main false equivalency is not factoring in exactly what the blueblood class is. That is a different world. A world that naturally attracts blueblood athletes. Auburn, Tuscaloosa, and Manhattan KS are the homes of bluebloods in one of the 2 revenue sports. And further, there is no one at any of those places that had any part in Auburn, Bama or KS becoming a blueblood. Blueblood is inherited "old" money. Is Blacksburg an insurmountable obstacle? No, outliers do occur. Short periods at the top of development/rebuild cycles do happen as well . NIL, is it easier for names like UNC and Duke to "mine" the close by RTP for big bucks? Of course it is. We don't have that. But we may get to that position. Not because of our sports but because we are beginning forming partnerships at our DMV campuses (think Amazon) To really be competitive in NIL we need them. You know places that are in populations like DMV but not like in the Roanoke/NRV. As for coaches, your position assumes coaches who could do what you say we need grow on trees and there are enough of them that once the bluebloods get theirs, there will still be one left for us. That is very long odds. So, is it impossible? No. But to complain like you do ignoring both what the bluebloods living above the glass ceiling do and where VT is even "below the glass ceiling" ignores the reality that VT must face as of today
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Pride_and_Joy OP
Kansas State is a blue blood in what sport?
Chris Coleman Chris Coleman
I wouldn't list Auburn as part of the equation.
We know who is coaching them, and we know exactly how he's acquired players over the years. It has been an issue for certain recruits in the past, for both football and basketball. Or even for certain parents. Remember Momo Jones? He wanted to come to Tech, but his mom wouldn't let him. But as you said, it's just one of many factors, and it's not an insurmountable issue. Sometimes it can be a positive, too (Sergio Render), though more so for football than basketball.
Zanderhokie Zanderhokie
Whatever happened to Momo Jones? That's a name I've not heard in a while
Chris Coleman Chris Coleman
Went to Arizona and then Iona.
He's had a long career overseas in Germany and Turkey.
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Pride_and_Joy OP
I wouldn’t mind a bit more Bruce Pearl energy
around our program. lol. He’s a great recruiter, great at building excitement, and plays the recruiting game as a big boy. He was just ahead of the NIL curve. :)
H
Hokester
Buzz was all set to be named Auburn coach then Pearl undercut him.
Auburn was ready to name Buzz their new coach but he told them to wait until Marquette was finished their NIT run. Pearl became available in the meantime and Auburn told Buzz never mind. He hates Auburn with a passion.
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NokieHokie
Correct. I thought this excuse would be dead after the Buzz Williams era,
but fans don't like getting their bias getting disproven, it hurts their coping mechanism... ** Edited by NokieHokie at 2/21/2024, 9:33:58 AM
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Pride_and_Joy OP
+1000
3TechFanz 3TechFanz
How about Houston? What a s hole
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RJHokie
Lotta people live in that area.
Some parts are fine, some really bad. One of my kids lives in Humble which is just north of the city. That area is ok. The University of Houston area can be quite problematic at times.
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Cvillehoops13
Creighton is a top 30 school in terms of bball NIL...
...they play in an 18,000 seat arena and Omaha is nothing like Blacksburg. I think the criticisms of Blacksburg for Bball talent are overblown and are a consequence of the people we have hired to recruit to Bburg but I don't think I'd use Creighton as a comparison. Omaha is much more like Richmond than Blacksburg.
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JackDSML
I was stationed in Omaha in 1971. Creighton was a power then
V
VT ChemE 1986
SAC?
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JackDSML
Yes I was at Offutt as a freshly minted photo interpreter.
Great town, great people. Air Force lifted me up. Smart people to work with. Thx
V
VT ChemE 1986
My dad was a Air Force LT there in the early sixties. Met my mom.
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Pride_and_Joy OP
It wasn’t the best example. Lubbock, Auburn, etc.
How does one know which schools are tops for NIL? Is that public info? Thanks.
hoosnowahokie hoosnowahokie
Mississippi St is in a similar position to VT btw
Success in football and basketball is somewhat comparable. Bball does have a Final Four, but that's about it. 2 hours from a major airport. Better schools between them and major metro area.
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Pride_and_Joy OP
What about Kansas State or Texas Tech?
Are those comparable?
reestuart reestuart
Amazing to see how well they do attendance-wise. They are almost always
top 10 in the country. Looks like a great atmosphere for a game.
hoosnowahokie hoosnowahokie
(Because there's nothing else to do in Nebraska)
reestuart reestuart
Omaha is a pretty good sized city. I think there's plenty to do.
hoosnowahokie hoosnowahokie
What major bball programs are within 3 hours of them?
I didn't know my Midwestern geography all that well. My point being, VT has major programs they are competing against that are closer to major metro areas on every side. (Duke, UNC, UVA, Tennessee) Of course, winning can fix a lot of things, but when that isn't there, you can't list location as an advantage. Particularly in this new NIL era.
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Pride_and_Joy OP
So now the argument is that we’re too small of a town…
but too close to too many other good places. I honestly can’t keep up with all the twists and turns in the argument that Blacksburg is unattractive to good basketball players.
hoosnowahokie hoosnowahokie
You misunderstood my argument
And I'm not really big on location being a crippling factor. I think for most, it's on the con side of the pros/cons list. When traveling from major metro areas, you have to pass major schools (better history in bball too) to get to VT. VT is 2-3 hrs from the schools I listed, and coincidentally, 2-3 hours from major airports/metro areas. ROA doesn't count btw.
reestuart reestuart
Kansas, K-State, and Iowa State. Iowa is 3:45.
I didn't mention Nebraska since they've not been good, but they are less than an hour away. They have improved a ton, though, with Hoiberg coaching them. ** Edited by reestuart at 2/21/2024, 8:04:18 AM
sacramento hokie sacramento hokie
Blacksburg has never been an obstacle to attracting good sports talent
This is one of the most bs sports myths ever promoted ……. Don’t know why this even keeps coming up…I guess hot spots like Auburn Alabama and Starkville and Oxford Ms , Lubbock Tx , Clemson SC are desirable destinations for young athletes and I can make many many more …it’s not about that at all
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Hokie622
All of those schools are just on par with VT over the last 10 years.
I wouldn't call them examples of high potential in rural locations. I'm not saying location is everything, but it matters.
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Pride_and_Joy OP
VT and Texas Tech on par?
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Hokie622
That's true, we're certainly not on par. They're also 6 times the size
of Blacksburg from a quick wikipedia search. And I think the general trend still holds. Again, it's not black and white, all or nothing, but it matters.
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VTCALS72
It is enough of an obstacle to getting "enough" good sports talent.
And please, all these comparisons to locations that have programs that have been bluebloods pretty much all of my 65+ years of watching college sports is like apples to oranges. It is my contention that in either football or MBB we could move to our campus in Alexandria and with the same staff and same $$$, we would get better recruits. There is a reason tons of VT grads flee Blacksburg for DMV. Especially 18-26 aged persons want areas like DMV. My age, not so much but we are talking about whatever the "Gen" for college aged persons is.
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Pride_and_Joy OP
Yes, they “flee” for jobs.
reestuart reestuart
Yep. It’s all about opportunity. Give athletes that, and they’ll come.
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Jbohokie63
Penn State as well
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Pride_and_Joy OP
Totally agree.
BackInTheBurg BackInTheBurg
Have you ever been to Omaha? Great city and it’s 10x the size of Bburg. I
love living in Bburg, but there’s no comparison.
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Pride_and_Joy OP
I’ve been there. It’s bigger but not a great city.
Or maybe use Lubbock (Texas Tech) or Auburn, AL as examples.
hokiepro hokiepro
Auburn is an hour from ATL
And Bruce Pearl has been cheating for years
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Pride_and_Joy OP
Auburn isn’t an hour from Atlanta.
It’s 1:40.
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GoldCoast
How many kids are going to a school b/c a big city is 1-2 hrs away?
** Edited by GoldCoast at 2/21/2024, 7:41:42 AM ** Edited by GoldCoast at 2/21/2024, 8:18:40 AM
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Pride_and_Joy OP
Apparently all the good ones! lol.
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Pride_and_Joy OP
Blacksburg is a couple of hours from Charlotte
hokiepro hokiepro
2:45 or so, yeah
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Pride_and_Joy OP
It is NOT 2:45.
I lived in a southern suburb of Charlotte and drove to Blacksburg on game weekends. It was 2:25 from the far side of the city. Just curious, how far must a campus be from a major metropolitan area for said distance to be available as an excuse for sucking? Sounds like one hour away is a a non-issue. But 2.5 hours means it’s a major inhibitor to effective recruiting. Where’s the magic line? Two hours?
hokiepro hokiepro
You must drive it in the middle of the night then
Going way over the speed limit Google maps says 2:50 but whatever And we don’t “suck”. If we did we wouldn’t beat UVA by 30, Iowa St & Clemson ** Edited by hokiepro at 2/20/2024, 11:52:44 PM
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Pride_and_Joy OP
Of course I drive over the speed limit. I’m not VPI63.
nvpbrown nvpbrown
It takes 2:25 to drive from CLT to Mooresville at the wrong time of day...
... unless you pay $10+ in tolls.
hokiepro hokiepro
Exactly