I'm not buying the notion that UVA and VT, or UNC and NC St. are package
deals. I don't care what politicians may say. Do you really think that if UVA got an invite to a P2 conference they would be told to reject it just because VT didn't get an offer? Same with NC schools. People want to compare this to when VT was invited to the ACC and UVA was required to vote for VT. But this is a different situation. UVA was already in the conference, they were only being told to vote for VT, not to reject a conference invite. UVA was in a position of strength and were being asked to exercise that strength on behalf of VT. They were not being asked to harm their own athletic program on behalf of VT. I cannot see politicians requiring any of these schools to reject an offer in their best interest just because the other school didn't get the same or similar offer. That is nonsense. In fact it would be in the best interest of the other school for the one school to accept the offer, that way there would be a voice within a P2 conference that could speak on their behalf during potential future expansion. If any of those four schools gets an invite they are taking it, and it doesn't matter who else gets an invite.
115 Replies
It would also hurt the state generally if none got in versus one only
(In response to this post by wwhokie1)
T
TDVick
2y
the UNC Chancellor bailed to Michigan State. If I was a UNC fan, I'd much rather be in the SEC, and I think that is what's happening. The powers-that-be are trying to shoehorn a P2 landing spot for VT and NCSU, but neither of us have a good hand to play.
(In response to this post by wwhokie1)
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Stech
2y
VT is the football prize in the state of Virginia, and NC State has won 3 in a row, in spite of the regular Mac hype at the beginning of each year. Now basketball is the reverse, but basketball money at least right now, is going to the NCAA. If the basketball money goes the way of football, the best thing would be to take all 4 teams, and get all the money.
(In response to this post by TDVick)
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TDVick
2y
Did you notice that Gonzaga (and I think, UConn also) was being mentioned in the B12 scenarios. Clearly, there must be some kind of basketball payday sweetener for something that far-fetched to be considered.
There's been a lot of reporting about March Madness eventually being restructured or reallocated. It seems sensible that the bigger the basketball angle to realignment, the less it helps VT.
(In response to this post by Stech)
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Stech
2y
payouts . I think the Big Bang will be the Pay for Play separated division. I also don’t think it’s as far out as most people think.
** Edited by Stech at 12/13/2023, 7:32:06 PM
(In response to this post by TDVick)
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TDVick
2y
when we could have grabbed Missouri's SEC spot. Perhaps the UVA would be stuck in a SLIGHTLY disadvantagous ACC, but not both schools can really get damaged if UVA is allowed to leave with UNC. Also we look like leaches, *****s and interlopers who had to use political strong-arming to get in - just like with the ACC.
If UNC goes the SEC, which is my guess - I'm just not sure when, then sometime, the UNC and SEC will make call everyone's bluff and give a solo invite to UVA, that doesn't include us. I really don't have a lot of confidence in the state of Virginia's "united front" sticking together.
The ACC schools teamed up to screw over and exclude VT for 50 years, with UNC being the leader. Now UNC has a very strong hand with the SEC and do you expect this to change?
Back in 2011, Clemson, FSU and Miami weren't going to be added to the SEC but we would have been voted in. Now we are the back of the line once again. If by, some longshot we end up in the SEC, the right move was to jump back in 2011. It just blows my mind that people couldn't figure this out then.
(In response to this post by wwhokie1)
G
gman86
2y
I don't think UNC has the juice to dictate expansion partners to the SEC. The SEC holds most of the cards for southern schools who desire entry (FSU, Clemson, GT, UNC, NCSU, VT, uva). I presume that the SEC would be the first choice of these schools vs. the B1G (but maybe not in some cases?). Let's play this out...
Assume SEC wants UNC and opens discussions with them.
Assume UNC wants uva as a partner.
Assume SEC would prefer VT over uva. (not a prediction, just playing this out as an exercise)
If UNC threatens to go to B1G unless uva is included... I would think SEC would invite VT, then come back to UNC and say "in or out"? I think UNC blinks. If not, UNC and uva go to B1G and SEC gets VT and NCSU.
VT and NCSU form natural border rivalries in the SEC -> UK, UT, USC. Furthest travel is Texas and aTm.
UNC and uva for natural border rivalries in the B1G with Maryland and... (PSU? Rutgers?) Plan for travel to west coast, nebraska, iowa, minnesota... have fun :)
I don't think SEC will GAF what UNC wants :)
(In response to this post by TDVick)
2y
If ESPN wants the SEC to take UNC and UVA, then that's probably what will happen.
(In response to this post by gman86)
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TDVick
2y
that once these southern schools start thinking about this (as well as their alums), they are going to run fast from the B10 and into the SEC. The B10 has Mich, Ohio State and Penn State but after that they have a goofy portfolio of teams in places that no one wants to go to. Clearly, all the conferences want UNC. Would the SEC prefer to pair UNC with us? How much more than UVA?
(In response to this post by gman86)
2y
First of all FSU may not be desired by SEC as much as many think. Due to UF and others in SEC being top dog recruiters in area(FLA). BIG desires that area. Would BIG like this FSU, UNC, Clemson, UVA and the U. Giving them a Eastern Front. Unc may could drag Duke in that scenario. Possibly a GT.
If that would happen VT and State have open door to SEC maybe. Two prime states SEC is not in. Hard to say what is really going on. I think ACC surviving is not as off as some think.
(In response to this post by TDVick)
NC State and Va Tech in the SEC...UVA and UNC in the Big 10
The package deal is keeping them in the P2.
(In response to this post by wwhokie1)
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VTCALS72
2y
Again my though is based on the only reason UVA, VT or NCSU is being considered is because we reside in the one eastern market area that is not "home" to a P2 team.
So if that is the only reason then the question becomes, do the SEC and Big want to fight over it? If they do, we are in. If they don't we aren't.
If the Big forays into FLA/GA/SC with FSU and Clemson, I can definitely see the SEC taking all 4 and locking the Big out of this untapped area. Or they each could take 2 and add the entire SE coast as a battleground.
(In response to this post by VaTechHokiesACC)
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TDVick
2y
could go after the Canes or BC. Hopefully that happens again and the SEC has to invite us before they can get UNC and UVA.
(In response to this post by VTCALS72)
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VTCALS72
2y
selling sports stuff. You know you already have the big names you want to carry your advertising but you need some way for your (Big or SEC) network to get immediate play in the area. Which teams do you take to do that, not just during football season but all sports. What gets you the best bottom line?
(In response to this post by TDVick)
2y
Washington D.C.
Northern Virginia
Richmond, VA
Baltimore, MD
Charlotte, NC
Hampton Roads, VA
Raleigh, NC
I’m not sure people understand how much population, wealth, and viewership is in the VT footprint.
(In response to this post by VTCALS72)
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VTCALS72
2y
Although I think you can take Baltimore (UMD) and DC (PSU and MD) out as being "untapped."
(In response to this post by Hardcore_Hokie)
2y
But to your point, marketing execs are for sure interested in VT and UVA’s (and UNC and NCSt’s) viewership footprint.
I’m sure most here know, but the DMV has 5 of the 8 wealthiest counties in the U.S. And that’s not even talking about Richmond and NC which are closer to Blacksburg.
Stuart Smalley: “You are good enough, you are smart enough, and gosh darnit the P2 likes you”
VT BABY!!!
(In response to this post by VTCALS72)
I'd agree. The situattion isn't what it was 20 yrs ago in 2003.
(In response to this post by wwhokie1)
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TDVick
2y
The reason I say that is because most of the dominant brands: USC, UCLA, Texas and OU have been snatched up. Most all of the other additions, with the exceptions of ND, UNC, FSU (maybe Clemson) are dilutive. Consequently, we have a weaker hand now. Plus, if March Madness is in play, our basketball brand isn't very valuable either.
If someone wants UVa, it is probably as a sweetener to UNC and UNC probably hates thought of us tagging along. Anyone who followed college sports for the last 70 year knew this. It wasn't hard to figure this out in 2011, but people decided to be genteel and not rock the boat.
I hope this works out for us, but I'm pretty doubtful. Even we find a horseshoe and land in a P2 conference, this all could have been avoided by picking up on phone in 2011, when the Aggies STRONGLY preferred us to be their cross-rival in the SEC. The miscalculation just sickens me.
** Edited by TDVick at 12/13/2023, 4:00:29 AM
(In response to this post by anotherdamnyankeehokie)
5
501
2y
losing influence in Richmond. I don't recall the gentleman's name, but I heard someone from Cardinal news on the radio a week or so ago reeling off names of long serving central and southwest VA legislators that have recently stepped aside. He was making the point that influential voices advocating for southwest VA in Richmond are rapidly fading, and projects/favors they have secured in the past will be harder to come by going forward.
(In response to this post by wwhokie1)
2y
that neither school will make a move that would hurt the other. I assume he is echoing the feeling of Gov - thats why I lean toward - the schools being tied. As we know - from 2004 the Gov is influential - I assume an AG can cause issues on any rogue independent move. I really do not like them having to be involved - would rather be wanted.
(In response to this post by 501)
2y
They're independent institutions.
Tying them together could essentially be one hurting the other if the P2 came calling and only wanted one. I'm all for each advocating for the other, but "tying them together" just doesn't make any sense.
(In response to this post by Hokie12thman)
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jrc3rd
2y
abandoned coal town because it is located in SW VA. If it isn't already so, VT is becoming one of the major economic engines of the Commonwealth.
(In response to this post by 501)
2y
It's no metropolis, thank goodness, but the NRV is thriving. Most that spout that stuff must not have been back in the past 30 years.
(In response to this post by jrc3rd)
E
EDGEMAN
2y
It's not like we're a small regional college, we represent the entire state.
We are the flagship university for the Commonwealth! What other Virginia University two med schools, and a Vet school? Quick answer: no one. The closest is MCV having a med school, pharmacy school, and dental school.
(In response to this post by 501)
2y
a little over 39k students if Liberty's online program isn't included in the numbers. VT is second with a little over 38k, but may soon surpass GMU in the near future.
(In response to this post by EDGEMAN)
E
EDGEMAN
2y
(In response to this post by VTHokie2000)
2y
VCOM is loosely affiliated but is not a "VT med school"
(In response to this post by EDGEMAN)
E
EDGEMAN
2y
..."well we have a MD and a DO med school"...lol
(In response to this post by Pylons)
2y
even having been married to a veterinarian.
I get what you're saying, but no one hears "med school" and thinks "animals."
And he listed the vet school separately anyway. VT does not have 2 "med schools."
(In response to this post by HOKIEGOBBLE)
2y
they've gotta fix a turtle, a chicken, a dog...
(In response to this post by Pylons)
2y
At least the dog is a mammal.
Not to mention you'd have a *very* hard time finding a vet that has actually treated all 3 of those.
(In response to this post by mancunian)
2y
Could have avoided confusion on my own part if I'd read a little bit further up the thread.
Mea culpa.
** Edited by Hokie Fiji at 12/12/2023, 9:55:17 PM
(In response to this post by Pylons)
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ombandit
2y
the tremendous influence bipartisan advocacy has with SMU getting into the ACC
(In response to this post by 501)
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VTCALS72
2y
Agree it is something that is needed and maybe there is something pols can offer but IMHO pols had nothing to do with those 3 teams being it. For some reason, TV sees a place for those 3 and didn't want to kick them to the curb like they did with Wash St and Ore St.
The hope for those determined to have VT get into that P2 level is, not southwest VA but the NOVA/VA/NC market area. It is all about whether TV/advertisers see enough benefit to get their Big or SEC network into the area to take in teams from that area.
If I were the SEC I would take a very hard look at sewing up this market area especially if they are now going to have to compete with the Big in FLA/GA/SC.
(In response to this post by ombandit)
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Stech
2y
What some fans don’t get,is that UVA and Virginia Tech are incredibly supportive of each other, and yes a big factor to it is bipartisan support from the politicians. United we stand, divided we fall is lived by in Virginia for Military Bases and State Schools.
** Edited by Stech at 12/13/2023, 8:29:44 AM
(In response to this post by VTCALS72)
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TDVick
2y
They have always hated having to recruit and compete with us. I don't think UVA has that much pull but UNC does.
(In response to this post by Stech)
S
Stech
2y
level UNC and Virginia Tech don’t get along. UNC has to have some cover like ND from their don’t change anything crowd. For UNC it’s the basketball crowd and of course for ND, it’s the football crowd.
(In response to this post by TDVick)
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2hhoop3
2y
want to review what happened around the USC-w exit. UCLA did end up as the 2nd(travel partner) but, I am not sure it has ever been established as to who pushed UCLA over the finish line and I think you will find USC was out the door with or without UCLA.
(In response to this post by Stech)
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Stech
2y
did this in a vacuum, in spite of what they said publicly. Do you really think they didn’t talk through others? They have others do the talking for them so they can have plausible deniability, but I am not buying for second they weren’t in cahoots with this move.
I have negotiated enough in sports and business to know how they protect themselves in case it falls apart. Always be able to keep an arms length distance, so you can call it poppycock.🤣 I have a feeling you have too, but maybe I am wrong on that.
(In response to this post by 2hhoop3)
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2hhoop3
2y
of maintaining plausible deniability and the need for backchannel communications. I am also aware that things publicly apparent are not necessarily how it occurs in private.
The B1G maintains they were contacted by the schools. There is a better than even money chance FOX was the go between and the initial inquiries were at best mutual. Reports are USC was the focus and there was no initial demand for #2. In fact, given actions by Carol Folt and USC it is likely they were only looking out for themselves. If it were to ever be fully disclosed, I would wager that FOX ran the numbers for several #2s and drove the call for UCLA. You also have to believe the numbers made a strong case because the potential headaches of dealing with California politicians and the UCal system would likely favor Oregon or Washington, two better football programs, given that SC delivers the LA market.
(In response to this post by Stech)
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Stech
2y
believe USC’s first choice was to bring them with them, and even though it will be hard to prove, they were communicating through back channels, and didn’t just wake up at the end of June and say, surprise, you’re going too? I had no idea.
(In response to this post by 2hhoop3)
2y
is vastly different from "they were communicating"
(In response to this post by Stech)
2y
is nice, but there's no way not having UCLA would have stopped them.
(In response to this post by Pylons)
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Stech
2y
Neither of us will be able to “prove” that they would have gone alone or not, because it never came to that, but the point is that one school can help another. My case in point is in 2003 when UVA helped Virginia Tech get invited to the ACC. Why you are arguing against that is very interesting to me.
(In response to this post by Pylons)
2y
I don't know what they wanted, but I don't believe USC made the demand you claim.
Of course one school can help another, but that's not really what you claimed here...you claimed USC made a demand that there's zero evidence of.
(In response to this post by Stech)
S
Stech
2y
aren’t coming without UCLA, but in the end they would have come without them. I admitted that was entirely possible. I am used to admitting I am wrong, proof is that I have been married for almost 4 decades to my wife. 🤣
Seriously that reminded of the fact that my Dad was my best man at my wedding, he said in a deadpan voice, the last thing I want you to know before you get married is “marriage is give and take, your wife gives you hell and you take it.” 🤣 We both laughed our butts off right before I walked in to get married. This has nothing to do with our discussion, but I thought we might end it on a funny note. Seriously, I enjoy the banter with you and TerryD, you both are very intelligent people and I enjoy the debates. I hope you do too.
(In response to this post by Pylons)
2y
without UCLA, I wouldn't have replied to you. Big difference between stating that something actually happened vs. it just being a possibility
(In response to this post by Stech)
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Stech
2y
(In response to this post by Pylons)
2
2hhoop3
2y
collection. You always believe you are marrying Mrs. Right on your wedding day but, the key to a long and peaceful coexistence is to NEVER forget her first name is ALWAYS.
(In response to this post by Stech)
2
2hhoop3
2y
basically being out of the loop until they needed to know is that as a member of the UCAL system neither the BIG or FOX would have wanted to risk the deal being prematurely disclosed by government interference. You see what happened when they became aware after the deal was essentially done. I do not believe it a stretch to imagine the problems that COULD/WOULD have likely presented had the UCAL governing organizations gotten wind earlier.
(In response to this post by Stech)
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Stech
2y
of it. Like you said, look what happened when they found out.
(In response to this post by 2hhoop3)
2y
in the dust. That however, is a double edged sword.
Then they will agree to have their rivalry game every year like Oregon and washington have.
(In response to this post by Stech)
2y
and neither "fell."
And staying united on a sinking ship—if the ACC turned into such a thing—wouldn't exactly be wise. Saving one would be better than saving none. Saving both into 2 different homes would be better than saving none.
(In response to this post by Stech)
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VTCALS72
2y
USC was bringing a much larger population into the B10. Whereas I do believe NOVA/VA/NC is the last plum area, it is no comparison to the LA area. The LA SoCal market was a must. The NOVA/VA/NC area is a plum but not a must.
(In response to this post by Stech)
S
Stech
2y
did this in a vacuum, in spite of what they said publicly. Do you really think they didn’t talk through others? They have others do the talking for them so they can have plausible deniability, but I am not buying for second they weren’t in cahoots with this move.
I have negotiated enough in sports and business to know how they protect themselves in case it falls apart. Always be able to keep an arms length distance, so you can call it poppycock.🤣 I have a feeling you have too, but maybe I am wrong on that.
** Edited by Stech at 12/12/2023, 2:07:25 PM
(In response to this post by Pylons)
2y
Zero evidence USC said what you claim.
Poppycock indeed.
(In response to this post by Stech)
S
Stech
2y
Honestly, no matter how you reply, I don’t think you really believe that. Some truths unfortunately can’t be proved, but if you think USC and UCLA never talked before the end of June, for you it’s true. However, many very intelligent people don’t believe that’s possible.
** Edited by Stech at 12/12/2023, 8:59:13 PM
(In response to this post by Pylons)
2y
I asked for evidence and you have none...that's really it.
And the question wasn't about whether they talked, it was about whether USC demanded that UCLA come along with them.
I made no comment like "if you can't prove it, it never happened."
(In response to this post by Stech)
2y
Congressional delegation was unified on funding and advocacy for military bases, singing from the same hymnal (1940 Episcopal version, the best one) as it were.
How it works for the universities I dunno. I just have a tough time believing that the Big 10 and SEC aren't going to fight it out for the verdant fertile sunny lands of VA and NC.
(In response to this post by Stech)
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Stech
2y
members having lunch once a month to fight for bases.However they started talking to each other about protecting the State Schools too. Especially when Virginia Tech was initially left out of the ACC. However, they still meet today and it’s well known in and out of the state, you don’t get one without the other. Now could they both go to a different P2? Maybe, but with so many schools in a Conference now, I doubt it, because they would have a hard time playing each other out of conference. The Pay for Play is really going to change things.
(In response to this post by mancunian)
2y
Virtually none of those types left in DC.
(In response to this post by Stech)
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Stech
2y
behind was the Virginia Congressional Luncheons.
(In response to this post by mancunian)
2y
It's state supported weather its located in Richmond, Northern Virginia, Norfolk, or Gate City.
(In response to this post by 501)
2y
reside...that is our territory. The Hoos (nor the Terps for that matter) do not have our numbers there. We also dominate downstate.
(In response to this post by 501)
E
EDGEMAN
2y
(In response to this post by Tuckahokie)
Virginia Tech is a state university, so where it's located should...
be no issue since it serves the entire state of Virginia. Isn't something like 35-40% of the undergraduate enrollment from NOVA? I'm sure 80% of Tech's student enrollment comes from the political power centers of the state (NOVA, Hampton Roads, Richmond). UVA is located in the same congressional district as most of Southside Virginia.
(In response to this post by 501)
2
2hhoop3
2y
to address that gentleman's comment and avoid politics. SwVA's decreasing influence is a combination of dwindling seniority and party affiliation coupled with population demographics shifting representation more and more to the urban crescent and away from more rural Southside and Southwest Virginia. Legislators from those areas are less and less likely to control the powerful committees such as Finance and Appropriations, Judicial, etc. as they did in former times.
(In response to this post by 501)
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Stech
2y
situation. Many of the politicians either themselves or their family went to Virginia or Virginia Tech, they are going to support them both. When the SEC was sniffing around to get Virginia Tech to come to the SEC (more than once on the Finebaum show) after being in the ACC, they didn't do it because of their great relationship with UVA. Neither the SEC or B1G should think they should get one without the other and from what I hear, the same is true with UNC and NCSU.
(In response to this post by 2hhoop3)
2
2hhoop3
2y
with that as you pointed out below bases and schools are top priorities, both historically and still at present. However, there are changing demographics afoot that over time could affect and maybe even rerank priorities. It is doubtful that happens during my remaining lifetime but, the shift of power north and east was once not considered a serious threat either so I will never say never.
(In response to this post by Stech)
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Stech
2y
(In response to this post by 2hhoop3)
S
Stech
2y
this situation. The Virginia politicians have two priorities, protect our military/bases and protect our State Schools. I know for a fact that is true on both sides of the aisle and they disagree on other things, but not those two.
(In response to this post by 501)
M
Marooned
2y
I doubt very seriously that the growth of population in State College is keeping up the major metros.
(In response to this post by Stech)
S
Stech
2y
being separated are very slim IMHO. By the way, whomever gets them, SEC or B1G will have pulled off quite a coup. Two of the biggest states that are very big into college sports.
(In response to this post by wwhokie1)
2y
B1G will say flatly, "No."
SEC will say, "Maybe at half-shares, because ESPN will not pay for all four."
ESPN will say, "We don't have room for all these games. Go talk to The CW."
(In response to this post by Stech)
S
Stech
2y
the Egg Bowl. They promote both of them. ESPN/SEC are all in on instate Rivalries, even when Texas A&M didn’t want Texas. I think they would even take Florida State and Clemson, but I don’t think Florida and South Carolina want them. That and getting two new large states in the South, in states that love College Sports, they feel is their best opportunity to grow revenue. Especially if the Pay for Play Division has their own basketball tournament, which IMHO is going to happen. UNC and UVA have rabid basketball fans, and Virginia Tech and NC State have great football fans. Time well tell the real answer though.
(In response to this post by 33laszlo99)
M
Marooned
2y
If it’s an F$U or UM just bolting and the conference is otherwise stable or improving, then I could definitely see the two programs staying put absent a deal for both. However, if it’s a PAC12 style implosion, where the house is on fire, then I think there’s a point where practicality overtakes sentiment. There would also be the promise of future lobbying for the school left behind FWIW.
(In response to this post by wwhokie1)
H
Hokie83
2y
Uva and VT are tied together at this point but not sure how solid the Politicians would be if your scenario of only 1 getting invited initially would happen but as of now they are tied together from what I am told ...fwiw
(In response to this post by wwhokie1)
2y
Anything beyond politician wishes, hopes, and hot air?
And why does it matter how "solid" any politicians are? They're not the decision-makers. What are they going to do, threaten to withhold funding?
(In response to this post by Hokie83)
2y
I understand that powerful people lie all the time though so time will tell but I would very much like to see UVA and VT stick together on this.
(In response to this post by Pylons)
2y
It’s fishy for sure
(In response to this post by Pylons)
2y
legislation, which is not out of the question. Talking a good solidarity game is easy. But if/when the time arrives, these politicians will be given the big (B1G) picture and a preview of the consequences. They may still decide to not separate the twins.
(In response to this post by Pylons)
V
VTCALS72
2y
State/local pols have nothing that can affect anything. But, there is something that does affect what happens to UVA and VT. That is, with UNC and NCSU, they could cover and lock up the last unclaimed and desirable market area in college football. The B10 has no place else to go for increasing markets. So the next step is to try the above area or take on the SEC in their area. They can get that entry with Clemson and FSU.
But the SEC is in a similar place as there just isn't much more good area to advance into. Again, IMHO the VA/NC area is the best market area left standing.
So the question to me is whether either or both of the P2 want the VA/NC area enough to either go head to head with each other or whether they would want to lock it up. If VT, UVA, UNC and NCSU went together then that specific area is locked up.
(In response to this post by wwhokie1)
T
Truthahn
2y
You are probably right.
Back when the PAC was considering bringing in OK, Texas and two others (TT and Baylor, I think). People said that OK and OSU were a package, and that soured the deal, or at least it was part of what soured the deal. But that was probably lazy thinking. More likely Texas backed out, and/or the PAC did.
** Edited by Truthahn at 12/11/2023, 5:48:36 PM
(In response to this post by wwhokie1)
2y
Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, OK, and OK State.
(In response to this post by Truthahn)
T
TerryD
2y
Oklahoma left Oklahoma State behind.
So did Oregon--Oregon State, Washington--Washington State, UCLA--Cal, Texas--every Texas Big 12 school, etc...etc...
(In response to this post by wwhokie1)
S
Stech
2y
getting back together were the last big acquisitions. The others pale in comparison. Many would go with those two Big Bangs over the ones that you mentioned. One question for you though, "if" the Pay for Play Division happens and the P2 double what ND can make as an Independent or they can't make it in the Tier 1 playoff without being in one of those two conferences, do you think that ND will join the Big 10?
(In response to this post by TerryD)
T
TerryD
2y
It had to do with all of the schools thought a "package deal" who were not when push came to shove.
Why did you bring up ND? It has no one to consider for a "package deal".
To answer your Armageddon, nightmare scenario, the answer is "maybe so". I don't know.
(The Holy Cross Fathers have always historically reined in ND football when it overshadowed academics too much. They strongly feel that athletics should be strongly tied with academics. They may join or they may not)
I doubt the two things you mention will happen in tandem, though. (Breakaway division plus earning 2x what ND can).
(In response to this post by Stech)
S
Stech
2y
As far as whether the Pay for Play Division happens, I can look up your post if you want me to, but you specifically said you think all athletes will be paid as I mentioned it could be just for the positive revenue sports. So I took it that you think it will happen. Second, we have already seen a huge gap between the P2 and others, but many think that will accelerate once Texas & Oklahoma start playing an SEC schedule, and USC & UCLA, and now Washington and Oregon start playing a B1G schedule.
Consequently I don’t think it’s a long shot or Armageddon as you describe it. It’s a very possible reality, and the ratings will increase, and so will the money increase IMHO. Like it or not the matchups will likely make the top tier stronger.
(In response to this post by TerryD)
T
TerryD
2y
You asked me about some unlikely scenario where there is a P2 breakaway and they make double the $70-80 million a year that ND will make.
I think 2x ND's revenues is a longshot. We can discuss further if that ever actually happens.
(In response to this post by Stech)
Like being offered the last seat in a lifeboat and turning it down…..
Not happening. It’s a package deal until it’s not.
(In response to this post by wwhokie1)
V
VTCALS72
2y
This whole thing is about kicking as many teams as possible off the big stage. I would guess that it is more likely that the P2 will have a future contraction first.
(In response to this post by wwhokie1)
2y
You have to wonder if the state would make the sister schools share the money? For example let's say the SEC takes UNC but NC State stays in the ACC because no invite comes from the SEC or B1G. Would the state have the authority to make the schools pool their revenues and share them? Same question for the Virginia schools?
(In response to this post by wwhokie1)
2y
Call it Carolimony or Valimony. I can see a great advantage for the B1G or SEC taking UNC and a Virginia school but not two from the same state.
** Edited by Millpoint at 12/11/2023, 4:06:56 PM
** Edited by Millpoint at 12/11/2023, 6:35:12 PM
(In response to this post by tarheelblue)
2y
I think VT would be better off collecting those dollars and being in the leftover ACC, or B12. From a competitive standpoint, we have a better chance of competing year in and year out as opposed to the SEC or BiG. And if UVA joins either of those leagues, they are looking at Vandy or Rutgers status for a very long time to come.
Of course, this is probably all moot as when the new NIL Super Division happens, I don't think either Virginia school will be willing or able to compete in that arms race. And it will probably be the end of the current conference structure.
(In response to this post by Millpoint)
2y
But when it comes down to it, neither is turning down a great offer because the other would be left behind...nor should they
(In response to this post by wwhokie1)
2y
Have a lot of regular communication and coordination across many topics. This is for both academic administration and athletic departments. The picture seems to be one of mutual respect and cooperation.
So my interpretation is that the schools themselves might try to look out for each other. The politicians would be more background noise and escalation points if needed.
I don’t know enough about the NC schools to know if it is the same situation or if their approach might be more political.
But I’m definitely not in the know. That’s just my interpretation of what I’ve seen others post here before.
(In response to this post by wwhokie1)
2y
into play.
(In response to this post by HokieAl)
2y
You have the University of Texas system, and the Texas A & M system, and there is probably a system for Texas Tech.
(In response to this post by RJHokie)
2y
University of Houston system, Texas Tech system, Texas State system, Texas A&M system, Texas system, and University of North Texas system
(In response to this post by Atlee Hokie)
2y
(In response to this post by mrcaniac)
M
Marooned
2y
Spread out from El Paso to Wichita Falls
(In response to this post by Atlee Hokie)
2y
An invitation. And I cannot imagine a politician requiring them to turn down an invitation. Next time they try to get re-elected they would not want to try to explain to all the alumni of one of the schools why they would not allow that school to accept an invitation. Cannot imagine that would be popular.
I can see a politician making that claim right now. I'm sure they assume that if one gets an invitation both will get an invitation. And then they would want to take credit for both schools getting the invitations. My guess is that any comments are more about taking credit when it happens, than actually requiring a school to reject an offer if only one offer is extended.
(In response to this post by HokieAl)