There's something in the water....
Something about VT, regardless of coach or decade...I think there is something in the water.
It's a cliche, but in a way, I'm starting to think it's true. Not literally, but culturally. Perhaps its the relaxed, laid back state of mind of southwest Virginia, or the subconscious societal detachment felt from living way up in a mountain valley, far from urban centers. (I felt it as a student). Maybe it's the soft, warm, familial culture that we all love, that is referenced repeatedly by coaching staff, recruits, and what we all think of when we say he/she is "a good fit". We attract like minded people.
We treasure calm, cool, collected, reserved, steady, measured, dignified, and "aw shucks" humility. It gives us waves of goose pimples. We don't like to put ourselves "out there". Stay in the middle, stay with the pack, float with the tide, stay on the wing tip, play to the whistle, relax as soon as you can. We like a nice glass of half full. We like safe.
We abhor any hint of brash, arrogant, outspoken, risky, ruthless, swagger, or bombastic. We avoid it at all costs. We want winners, but not that kind.
Whatever it is, I think we can attribute something to it. That being, VT's ability to kneel to the occasion. Yes, every program has bad games, bad years, horrible losses. However, how many programs have as many, and give as many, "first evers", "not since x years", "record breaker", "streak breaker" games to the opposition? You can only do that by being just good enough to bring the credentials . My instincts tell me we're in a class by ourselves.
We're not a very good team right now you say? This weird kind of thing has been happening forever. Miami(OH), Temple, JMU, Liberty, ODU....I could go on...
The fact I knew this game was most likely over for us when we took a touchdown lead with 4 minutes left speaks to the conditioning.
I really believe some of the things we love most about VT are a contributor to why, after all these years, we still have a tendency to act like and play like we don't belong, and spit the bit over and over again.
** Edited by Techsupport at 9/3/2024, 9:18:59 AM
41 Replies
1y
There is so much more to this storyline. Suffice it to say we need a complete overhaul of the athletic department including attitude. My wife calls it the "Blue Haired Lady Syndrome." I call it The "Aww Gee Shucks Syndrome." Dutch Baughman was the last person I remember in that department that I could actually stand to listen to... I am hoping Coach Duffy at least has an edge to her...
(In response to this post by Techsupport)
1y
The academic reputation and accomplishments of the university have never been higher. VT now compared to VT when I attended in the 80's is in an entirely different league when it comes to selectivity and the value of a degree. And I believe that's due to the quality of leadership. It's been a good mix of internal (Torgeson, Steger) and external (Sands) cultures. As much as people love to bang on our current president, you really can't argue that VT is in a better place now than it was when he took office.
By contrast, the VTAD continues to operate much the same as it did when I was a student. It's insular, inbred, and inward focused. It's more concerned with protecting the positions of those inside it than it is with an aggressive growth mindset. And I believe that the continued employment of one specific individual over the course of decades, an individual who has far too much power and influence and appears unremoveable within his fiefdom, is at the heart of the nepotism, cronyism, and sclerosis that infests the entire department.
Someone- perhaps the school president, more likely the BOV- needs to recognize that the VTAD, top to bottom, needs a hard culture reset. That will start with hiring a new AD who makes it very clear that there are no sacred cows- employees or philosophies- that will be allowed to stand in the way of modernizing and turning the entire department into one relentlessly focused on winning, not on finding compatible new golfing buddies.
VT as a university is indeed Inventing the Future. The VTAD is Back To The Future. That needs to change.
(In response to this post by Techsupport)
1y
Aww-schucks ism is a badge of honor in Blacksburg. It's always been there to counter any thing with swag, money, or the big time.
Its kept us content with Stiney, the ACC, it hired Fuente, and it keeps the program from ever being more than a (former) regional player.
It prevails as a regional counter-balance to the big scary other parts of the state (nova, tidewater). Even the town of Blacksburg refuses to grow or progress past about 1995. It's who we are. It's why we've been passed by inferior schools like Kentucky, Vanderbilt, Louisville, NC State, and Cinncinatti.
** Edited by hardcorpshokie at 9/3/2024, 1:29:00 PM
(In response to this post by Techsupport)
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VPI_1998
1y
see NC State, GT, etc games of the past 3 years. Also I just felt after watching 3+ quarters that they (Vandy) had a coaching staff who would make adjustments to win, and VT's would not - VT would try to play safe to preserve a tenuous lead and hope Vandy would screw up - and they almost did...
Not the way a team with a winning mindset plays...
(In response to this post by Techsupport)
1y
away from public - some coaches let it fly following a loss - see Kelly slamming the table at press conference - following the LSU loss to SC - I understand and appreciate our culture what I don’t know is if the “aw shucks” in public is what everyone surrounding the HC get - I hope not - I know from my days at an sec school there is a sense of urgency, the tension fills the air and it happens quickly
(In response to this post by Techsupport)
1y
I don't know what's going on behind closed doors, but you'd like to think the fury of getting embarrassed by Vandy would be 10x greater than that of losing to a storied and formidable program like USC.
I kinda doubt it though, don't you?
(In response to this post by Hokie12thman)
1y
It would be 1000 times worse for them - if we got that close to beating USC today - I’d be ecstatic
(In response to this post by Techsupport)
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Stech
1y
We had to down 17-3 at the half, so we did, and did great. That not only gave life to our offense, but it meant the DEFENSE, didn’t have to spend a a ridiculous amount of time on the field.
Then we get the lead, and the first thing we do, is shut it down and play SCARED!! That’s what we have done for decades, all the way back to Jerry Claiborne. You can’t do that in this day and time, you have to keep the foot on the accelerated, or the other team will do exactly that!
We keep doing the same thing over and over again for decades, and expecting a different result!! Our problem is not complicated, but for some reason we keep making the same mistake. Saban realized the talent on offense across the board is so much better with athletic QB’s, he had to win shoot outs, and irony is Jerry Claiborne would have gotten stomped if he coached today, the athletic QB’s in part thanks to VT (Vicks, Randall, Tyrod etc.) have changed the game, and we keep living in the past Coach Pry and Whit!!! You two get final say, stop playing scared, and keep the pedal to the metal on offense. Sometimes an int is as good as a punt, if it’s down field. Get over it!!!
** Edited by Stech at 9/3/2024, 10:36:35 AM
(In response to this post by Techsupport)
1y
when they are in game situations where they are forced to abandon it (i.e., down 3-17...you have to play a more aggressive O, and it worked, but up 27-20, look at the play calls...designed to be safe, reduce the probability of a TO, and to hold onto the ball to drain clock and play keepaway).
It's mind boggling that the approach made famous by Frank (and Claiborne, the originator) still carries over today.
The philosophy of using your own O to maintain possession, thereby keeping the other team's O off the field and prevent them from even having the chance to score, seems, at this point, in VT's DNA.
PS, all teams employ this philosophy at times, and we saw it with Vandy and BC doing this on Sat, and last night, respectively. The difference is other teams seem to better adapt to turning into a scoring O (types of play calls change) when they want/need to and transition from the "play keepaway" O. VT's transition from one to the other is just not good.
** Edited by hokienole at 9/3/2024, 3:33:26 PM
(In response to this post by Stech)
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VTCALS72
1y
everyone from coach to waterboy knew we had to have a 1st down and Vandy just stuffed us. Are you suggesting the OL quit blocking?
(In response to this post by Stech)
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Stech
1y
(In response to this post by VTCALS72)
1y
Bowen was trying to run out the clock.
COL
(In response to this post by Stech)
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VTCALS72
1y
unless you think we should have forced a long passing game. To make Vandy defend the entire field you have to win at the point of attack and we did not. Absolutely nothing wrong with the play calls. We go up by 7 and they come right back and get 7. That is on the D and not the play calls for the D.
(In response to this post by Stech)
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Stech
1y
Horizontal plays results speak for themselves,
(In response to this post by VTCALS72)
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ombandit
1y
but alas, 1-8 in one score games…
(In response to this post by Stech)
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Stech
1y
been for quite a while.
(In response to this post by ombandit)
1y
...but it really does seem like there's a mean we always want to revert to, and because it's been in our DNA for so many decades, I can't attribute it to anything other than psychology.
You mentioned Claiborne, who Beamer played for, and now you have Pry, that coached under Beamer, and I believe still has a vision in his mind that the target is that stingy defense, ball control, run first, throw if you have to, accomplished through physical line play. Its a style that matches a personality type. Speak softly and carry a big stick. NEVER flashy
I look down the road at WVU that was very much like this through the end of the Don Nehlen years, but they buried that with Rich Rod 20 years ago, and have never looked back. I use them as an example because of the obvious similarities in recruiting profiles. Despite similar talent levels, it really hasn't been close in offensive production over the years. WVU has been MILES ahead of us (on average).
** Edited by Techsupport at 9/3/2024, 11:11:06 AM
(In response to this post by Stech)
1y
Historically... definitely kind, but never soft. : )
These were always tough folks. But being an a**hole was never part of the culture...family / neighbors were super important. 8 - 12 hours at the plant or on the railroad, then 2 in the garden, then chill on the porch having a blast with the fam because it was too hot to sleep, and not a lot of complaining.
FB was a great rep of that, and almost perfectly aligned the friendly but tough regional culture with the football program. And BF was his alter ego. Well-defined, focused leadership.
Fuente didn't snap into that, and the program didn't evolve the culture as the landscape changed and it ended up a little schizoid. I'm not sure the program is particularly clear which way it wants to go now or what its culture is, but I'd say nearly for sure we have dept-level / program-level issues now, i.e. it's not just some player issue.
The "mgt staff" seems to need to get their house in order, get rid of any deadwood, and get their sh*t straightened out, just like any company any of us have worked for. : )~ I'd say if Pry can get through a learning phase, get tired of the L's and say "well that's enough of that, enough Mr Nice Guy", get his own focused leadership going and brook no BS about it, then it may work out...he's a great fit for the school on many other levels. I'd love to see it.
(In response to this post by Techsupport)
I was thinking the same thing
VT fans remember all the bad losses we took, but tend to forget those other (good, even great) teams have endured as well.
(In response to this post by Stork)
1y
A school with the size and budget and location of VT is not supposed to play in a national title game. It’s not supposed to be in the ACC or win the ACC basketball tournament. It’s not supposed to be equal to AAU schools with double the enrollment located in/near big cities.
In many ways VT as a school and athletic program has done amazing and far out performed what “should” be our normal. But that type of setup is bound to come with some wild swings and bad losses that even out our unexpected good wins.
(In response to this post by Techsupport)
1y
Anything that can go wrong usually does
(In response to this post by Techsupport)
I love this post. I used to post these types of posts long ago.
So long ago, I probably stopped 10 years ago. It was one of my criticisms of Frank. He just...wouldn't...go for it. Ever. Yea, he went for 2 point conversions, on sides kicks, etc. But I mean in an overall sense, as you so eloquently posted.
And you are right. We have to have some kind of record for these types of performances. It is absolutely unreal.
(In response to this post by Techsupport)
1y
"The fact I knew this game was most likely over for us when we took a touchdown lead with 4 minutes left speaks to the conditioning."
Never mind conditioning. I literally thought, "Now, don't screw it up and give it away." And they did.
I was in the corner of the end zone, surrounded by VT fans, and after the hysterical celebration of the long TD by Jennings to go up 27-20, there was mostly resignation and just observation. It was like we all knew what was coming. The 15-second-long three-and-out didn't even draw consternation and ire, just a "here it comes" attitude.
(In response to this post by Techsupport)
1y
If you've watched enough college football, you know about how many possessions are likely left in the game for any arbitrary amount of game clock. In that game itself, you've seen one team already give up several long scoring drives, both in terms of play count and game clock, to the other one. If I were watching a game play out in the exact same manner between 2 totally different teams, I would've had the same thought, that it's a dangerous amount of game clock left in a 1-possession game where 1 team has not shown a consistent ability to stop the run. TV announcers see it, fans see it, how frequently games come down to which team gets the final possession. It just so happened, that due to how poorly they played elsewhere in the game, that VT happened to be in the situation of changing possession too late in the game without a larger lead.
To put another point on the intuitive understanding of game flow, I'll bet many other people besides me were saying to themselves late in the 1st half, when VT got the field goal, "if they don't score something on this drive, the game is over."
(In response to this post by Will Stewart)
W
Wihokies
1y
This conversation reminded me of the last game of the regular season against Miami in 2004. In Will's own words in the game recap, here's how the defense ended the game after we scored a 4Q TD in a tie game to take the lead:
"Royal stretched out, snagged the ball on his fingertips, and turned it upfield, leaving Rolle in the dust for the go-ahead TD with 11:29 left.
Orien Harris burst up the middle to block the extra point, leaving the score 16-10, but the Hokie defense made sure that didn't come back to hurt VT. Miami had three more possessions in the game, starting on their 17, 12, and 12 yard lines, and each time, VT made sure they didn't get past their own 32.
The defense got stronger towards the end as they smelled blood, and the game culminated in three straight Berlin passes being batted down. With Miami facing 2nd and 2 from their 20 yard line with 1:07 to go. Jim Davis looped around a blocker and smacked Berlin's arm as he tried to pass. On 3rd and 2, Davis drove through his blocker, fought off the help block by fullback Quadtrine Hill, and leaped in the air to knock down another pass. On 4th and 2, Darryl Tapp avoided Hill's cut block and batted down Berlin's last pass."
Compare that to how we were all feeling on Saturday in Nashville. I had VERY low confidence we would keep Vandy from scoring. I know I'm old, but in 2004 I remember thinking we could play another 10 quarters and that defense wouldn't have let Miami score.
(In response to this post by Will Stewart)
1y
To quickly make it 21-10; I told a State fan next to me…that’s terrible defense in that situation NOBODY should beat them deep…and watch…we will figure out how to lose this lead. He’d been ticked off at their OC & team the whole game and said “with our guy calling plays there’s not way”
I said just watch…and a botched KO return that buried us deep and another couple big plays later, sure enough…it was 21-16. And of course we turtled on O as we always seem to do late in 1-score games & we lose 22-21. It’s so predictable, I’m called out for “being so negative”…well when you’ve watched it happen for 46 years, you become numb to it.
1991 or so we blew a huge lead and tied SC at home; 1992 the Rutgers game and about 6 others we lost by a score
(In response to this post by Will Stewart)
1y
Telling the Georgia fans around me that a 21 to 3 halftime lead was not enough for us.
(In response to this post by hokiepro)
1y
(In response to this post by Will Stewart)
1y
And gone down about the 8, we could’ve run 3 run plays and scored 🧐
This is TIC of course you score when you can but I HOPED we’d close it on D. We’d been shutting them down since last 2nd qtr…but…NOPE
(In response to this post by VT_Consul)
And it seemed waaay too familiar
(In response to this post by TomTurkey)
I think we need to rebuild that statue of Beamer to 60 feet...
it feels like days of being a 'big time' program have left us in the rare view mirror.
Combination of the nature of college football and our inherent limitations...
I wasn't even THAT disappointed walking out Saturday, just acceptance.
(In response to this post by Techsupport)
1y
But how we summon it, I am not sure any of us would be in agreement.
(In response to this post by Techsupport)
1y
(In response to this post by likehokies)
Was VT built on an ancient Indian burial ground?
Seriously, it feels like there is some kind of curse over our athletic department. Perhaps we should consider calling in an Exorcist and maybe a witch doctor. Couldn't hurt.
(In response to this post by Techsupport)
1y
cave like the Brady Boys did. Watch out for Vincent Price though.
(In response to this post by UpstateSCHokie)