Today Rick Watson claimed the SEC made a pass 3 times at VT and we said no
Hour 2 of his podcast today -
First time was 2003 -
Then he said he had weaver on his show all the time and in 2005 weaver said they asked again
Finally again came calling in 2012
We said no all 3 times and they holding a grudge
Bigdawg has spoken
41 Replies
2y
The 2012 date lines up with when Maryland, UVA, UNC, and GT were rumored to be playing footsie with the B1G, but ultimately 3 of the 4 decided to stay in the ACC. The SEC might have been gauging interest in VT, A&M, and MO at the same time.
It would be very interesting to see if there were a higher than normal amount of private flights from Nashville (Vandy) to airports nearby those 3 campuses.
(In response to this post by AnotherTechW)
2y
Probably the ringer in why he is misleading.
(In response to this post by mrcaniac)
2y
I always laugh at so called "insiders' that somehow start telling stories of things when those who were around at the time are no longer with us to debunk them.
(In response to this post by MrFantastic!)
I think there is a little truth to the "pass" rumor when Missouri was added
I had heard that there was a lot of chatter around Tech to the SEC at that time and they wanted to balance off the entry of Texas A&M in the west with a member in the east. At that time Bill Roth gave an interview to a Nashville sports radio station on why Tech would be a great fit for the SEC.
Rumor has it that no offer was ever officially extended to Tech because they would not accept the unofficial offer. Hence, the SEC went to Plan B and brought Missouri into the league in the east.
I do think that the politics and optics would have looked brutal for Tech to jump from the ACC at that time into the SEC after pining to be part of the ACC for decades and jumping after finally landing their desired gig. The economics and 20/20 hindsight probably speaks to that being a bad decision (if rumors are true) but at the time, I think it was the right one.
** Edited by CobbCountyHokie at 3/15/2024, 1:41:26 PM
(In response to this post by AnotherTechW)
V
Vippie1
2y
if it means were there some backchannel discrete early feeling out conversations at some level- okay I can buy that. That is likely happening off record all over , all the time, the last decade or two.
what I firmly don't beleive is 1) there was anything close to a real offer - until we commit to say yes it doesnt go that far, which we didnt 2) regardless of what happened or didnt happen there is zero grudge, or should there be.
(In response to this post by AnotherTechW)
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lawhokie
2y
VT was superior in every respect to Mizzou, including R&D funding, state demographics, academics, etc. The SEC could have added bookend east-west second-tier football programs with the potential to jump to top tier. The engineering/cadet corps angles adds to the allure - there was simply never a better annual rivalry game pairing on the expansion list than VT-A&M. Instead, the SEC got Mizzou added to the SEC East roster.
If the SEC did indeed approach VT (and I believe it very likely), then VT’s refusal(s) will go down as the single worst decision in the history of VT athletics. Period. Hindsight is 20/20, but we pay our administrators well to have strategic vision. When your decisions result in your school’s relegation to the equivalent of 1-AA athletics then your tenure was an absolute failure. I think VT’s bullheaded insistence on the ACC was based largely on emotion and a faulty emphasis on academics, not an objective evaluation of revenues and long-term stability. In a final irony, athletics will enhance academics, not the other way round.
VT was never a fit for the ACC. It’s a bunch private schools and wannabe Ivys. The Carolina schools would have shown us the door if we’d announced we were leaving. (OK, NCSU is alright). Now it’s a cobbled together group of disparate interests that half want to leave and half are desperate to preserve. So, nice job Weaver and Co.!
** Edited by lawhokie at 3/15/2024, 9:32:26 AM
** Edited by lawhokie at 3/15/2024, 9:34:24 AM
** Edited by lawhokie at 3/15/2024, 10:51:24 AM
** Edited by lawhokie at 3/16/2024, 12:11:14 PM
(In response to this post by AnotherTechW)
V
VTCALS72
2y
but nothing more than that. I base a lot not on how people want to spin things just to make it look like the VT admin is stupid rather than the reality of what was happening at the time. We were available in 2002/03 at the time the ACC expansion tried to get only Miami, BC and Cuse. We were available with no strings. And believe me if the SEC was really kicking the tires behind the scenes at that time we would not have sent out so many markers to get into the ACC. But even if the SEC had some interest, they didn't move.
I don't doubt the SEC inquired at some point during our time in the ACC. I have no doubt they have "kicked the tires" of several ACC schools. But, like recruiting, I don't believe any ACC school really ever had a committable offer from the SEC. And that is right up to today. It certainly is prepared to change but has not yet. So with no options VT went all in and sent out a lot of markers that did entangle us. But doing so saved us from the sinking BE. We did the right thing and did it very well.
And some of those same things that helped us are the ones tying us to UVA . They are still active. Things like funding from the state as both the carrot and the stick.
Neither VT nor the ACC is as inept, dumb or inactive as is often claimed on this board.
(In response to this post by lawhokie)
Everything you say is true. But we have to deal with the political reality
of what it took to get us out of the BE and into the ACC that involves UVa.
Otherwise, I have no deep loyalty to the ACC. Never did. In fact, they took Syracuse over us at first and were willing to leave us out. Once we used in-state political clout to get ourselves into the ACC, it was not going to be so easy to leave.
But by now, even by 2020, I think we can and should act in our own interests. If we can get into the SEC or B1G without UVa, I think we should do it without hesitation. We have been a good conference member and should no way feel bad about leaving. Ditto for UVa leaving us behind. They owe us nothing. And any figurative debt that we might feel we owe UVa, has long been paid in full.
(In response to this post by lawhokie)
2y
Wonder if VT dalliances with the SEC may have played a factor in creating that.
(In response to this post by lawhokie)
2y
"faulty emphasis on athletics"
Did you mean academics?
(In response to this post by lawhokie)
2y
The SEC maintains that they only add members through an application process that is initiated by candidate schools. There's apparently no record of any such application made by Virginia Tech at any time. So in this case both sides have clear coverage -- the SEC to state that there was never any offer and Virginia Tech to state that there was never an application to join.
Like others, I've heard that there was a LOT of smoke related to the possibility of Virginia Tech taking the Eastern Division slot that was available in the SEC's 2012 expansion. But that's just hearsay on my part. And my view is that there was no way to know back then just how much the landscape would change in such a short period of time.
(In response to this post by reestuart)
V
VPI_1998
2y
given an opportunity to expand into the DC market and grab a football brand that was still considered top 15 at the time in VT and geographically made sense - I would be absolutely shocked if there wasn't an unofficial offer or "back room" discussions. And understandably from their perspectives, Beamer and Weaver likely said "no" (easier path to MNC, etc.). We may never find out for certain but it seems way too logical to have not happened.
(In response to this post by Hokie Fiji)
2y
(In response to this post by Hokie Fiji)
E
EDGEMAN
2y
In 2003, we were drowning in the Big Least, and would go to any respectable conference that would throw us a life preserver. The SEC had their chance, and passed.
After expending every favor to get out of the Big Least and into the ACC, there is no way we were going to join the SEC when they invited aTm. It was too soon after all of that wrangling to get ACC membership.
Frankly 2012 was probably too soon too if that was even true.
(In response to this post by AnotherTechW)
We were NOT going to do anything to hurt UVa's existing conference once
they and the state government helped get us into the ACC. And in 2012, there wasn't a do or die, every man for himself mentality in realignment. Nor was the money gap all that large just yet.
(In response to this post by EDGEMAN)
2y
I turned down Sandra Bullock that many times as well, so it seems plausible.
(In response to this post by AnotherTechW)
O
ombandit
2y
Total. BS
(In response to this post by AnotherTechW)
2y
Watson does not know that. If true someone with better clout would have let it out. If so SEC would not grudge .if they desired then it be sane when available. Big dawg is lil pup on information front.
(In response to this post by AnotherTechW)
I'm sure some back channel stuff was going on but to pass 3 times?
No way.
(In response to this post by AnotherTechW)
2y
ACC invite. I dont know about the other 2, but no way VT turned down 2003 offer
** Edited by HboroughHokie at 3/14/2024, 7:03:14 PM
(In response to this post by AnotherTechW)
2y
So I could see Weaver & Steger saying thanks but no thanks. We had been to a couple of BCS games from winning the Big East. VT & Miami were top dogs of College Football. LSU, Florida, and Auburn were always at the top of the SEC back then. Frank may have pulled a 1990 Bowden and saw a smoother road to championship football in the Big East and declined the SEC. Then Donna called Swofford and the whole thing blew up.
(In response to this post by HboroughHokie)
2y
remember in the mid-90s the Big East was worried that the Big East Football Conference (BEFC) may fall apart when the time for schools to renew their commitment to the conference. The reason I bring this up is because JW used VT's commitment to the BEFC to leverage receiving full membership in the Big East. If the football schools had not renewed their commitment to the BEFC, then there was good possibility the football schools would leave to either form their own conference or join another existing conference.
(In response to this post by Victor Tango)
2y
Miami was playing footsie with the ACC; the ACC had dossiers on BC, cuse and Miami if John Markon in the RTD could be believed. The old BE was never really stable.
(In response to this post by Victor Tango)
E
EDGEMAN
2y
...the Big Least was a stable conference. When you throw in the largest "buy in" in the history of college athletics for VT to join in all sports, you can see why we were screaming to get out...and the SEC passed.
(In response to this post by mancunian)
The SEC should have taken VT and WVU at that moment. I wanted it BAD.
In fact, me looking for information about VT to the SEC in 2003 is what brought me to TSL. And I've been here ever since.
** Edited by Maroon Baboon at 3/15/2024, 4:19:32 PM
(In response to this post by HboroughHokie)
2y
And the Mountaineers were rebuffed. Of course, I may be making that up. If I am right, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Virginia Tech officials did the same thing and had a similar experience. I would be shocked if any hard evidence ever surfaces indicating that we turned down an invitation to the SEC at any point in time. But particularly in 2003 it seemed clear that the ACC was the only option we had other than remaining in the Big East.
(In response to this post by Maroon Baboon)
2y
He has no cred, except radio in Redford??? really?? and that upsets a message board... wow
(In response to this post by AnotherTechW)
2y
All of what he’s saying seems like an attempt to drive negative engagement from the VT fanbase.
(In response to this post by DMV Gobbler)
S
Stech
2y
would be completely dismissed. So goes our society.
(In response to this post by DMV Gobbler)
S
Stech
2y
I have said it repeatedly, but I guess I have to say it again, it’s different in Virginia than many states. The rival schools want to win on the field, court or course, but off the field especially at the administrative level, there is an amazing relationship to help each other. I know the good versus evil crowd won’t like that, but in spite of them, we have amazing accomplishments together, and even with other Virginia State schools, it is why so many up north want to go to college in the state of Virginia.
(In response to this post by AnotherTechW)
2y
(In response to this post by AnotherTechW)
I think the 2012 date, was actually summer 2011
They wanted us to come in with Texas A&M. Which would have made way more sense, that Mizzu.
We would not have done as well jumping from Big East Strait to SEC.
(In response to this post by AnotherTechW)
2y
As I remember, there was interest received for Tech to join the SEC , but Frank Beamer and Jim Weaver decided to remain in the ACC. Not sure about three offers of interest.
(In response to this post by hokieninsurance)
2y
Another 'expert' in the region. thinks he knows athletics but works at Radford. really big time Rick.
he should be warned, this is VT market, and folks that object aren't really succesful in the region
(In response to this post by AnotherTechW)
2y
(In response to this post by AnotherTechW)
2y
The path to a potential championship was (and is) much easier, and there was no crazy gap in revenue between the conferences.
As demonstrated by the ridiculous realignment we've seen recently, this is all about money. If the SEC determines that adding Virginia Tech will result in more money, then they will try to make it happen. Some old grudge will not matter.
** Edited by RVAHokie05 at 3/14/2024, 2:59:04 PM
** Edited by RVAHokie05 at 3/14/2024, 2:59:38 PM
(In response to this post by AnotherTechW)
2y
Assuming he means the SEC then who in the SEC? The commish? The presidents? The ADs? Or like the people that work the reception desk at their HQ? I’m wondering exactly how many people in positions of power in the SEC from any of those 3 years are still around. Without looking, I would guess less than 5. Maybe even 0.
(In response to this post by AnotherTechW)