There is a part of me that doesn't want VT in the P2.
And unfortunately, that part is most of me. It just seems to me that if P2 comes into fruition, it will be a huge straw on the camel's back that is college athletics. Don't really want VT as part of the "greed is good" fraternity.
The fans on these boards keep up with all these developments. The average fan that doesn't follow the team in the off season probably doesn't know what is coming - that said, not sure the rest of us do either but we do have our informed ignorance.
The average fan might find all this stuff repulsive - I know I do. Unlike the NFL, there is no enforceable framework like the draft and salary cap. I agree the athletes should be paid but NIL in its current form is an unregulated entity and therefore an unenforceable one and so we have unrestricted free agency for every athlete, every year. Problem is, you can't have stuff like salary caps when the athletes are not employees.
When it comes to college athletics administration, this PATT is fast becoming a NATT and I don't like that. At 66 - and almost 67 - time becomes way more precious. My sister introduced the concept of "last viable decade" to me a few months ago which is humorous (she got that from former VT football player Bill Ellenbogen) - I'm not there yet but I do think about how I spend my time on a daily basis. If college athletics doesn't find a solution to this out of control mess, I know I won't be the only one to figure out new ways to spend time on Fall Saturdays.
This is all very sad.
42 Replies
2y
to be able to afford the most comprehensive and competitive non-revenue sports.
(In response to this post by Walkin` Willie)
M
Marooned
2y
the constant disruption of having our coaches and players poached by better funded schools with whom we should otherwise be competitive.
(In response to this post by Hokie Dog`s Dad)
T
TDVick
2y
exemption, which probably makes sense, since you don't want the good teams destroying the bad teams or they won't have anyone to play. There are salary caps, drafts and allocated player rights. I really can't stand the NFL anymore and hope college football can stay viable. I doubt this will be the case because college football won't have a rules structure than can maintain a competitive balance. The sport is VERY top-heavy now and adding these huge settlement costs will probably make the system even more consolidated, top-heavy and uncompetitive. I hope I'm wrong.
I wonder if some elements within the pro sports leagues haven't engineered these pressures on college sports to make them less attractive. The best college basketball was in the early 80s and topped out in the early 90s with UNLV, Duke, Fab 5 and UNC teams. Today's basketball is almost unrecognizable to that game. Maybe it was just the big money or the three point shot, but college sports seems to get worse all the time, college basketball since the mid-90s and college football seemed to peak around 2007, in my view. 2007 was the most interesting college football season ever. The last hope for an outsider team to crash the party was Boise State in 2010. After that, Bama and the big money boys got their act together and pulled up the drawbridge.
** Edited by TDVick at 6/26/2024, 10:02:55 AM
(In response to this post by Walkin` Willie)
the entire sports world is due for a correction at some point
although i feel like and old man yelling at the clouds...
but stadiums and player contracts keep growing and growing and growing... i know americans love their sports entertainment, but at some point the industry has to top out
(In response to this post by TDVick)
8
83Hokie
2y
(In response to this post by kingofcassell)
2y
the whole landscape has changed, it had peaked, you can only sell so many spurtles.... but suddenly, gambling a massive new source of ad revenue to start, but the real kick will be in game betting.
Think about this for a minute, in the Cincinnati ballpark where Pete Rose allegedly made calls to his bookie that got him banned, there is now a sports book...in the stadium. The irony of that and the idea that sports leagues are raking in $billions in revenue from sports books while suspending players for gambling is just unreal.
I feel like I'm yelling at clouds too, but different clouds.
(In response to this post by kingofcassell)
2y
and that's the only thing noted in that story that is currently off limits.
Schools get their money from media companies. Today, media companies get the money to pay the schools from ad revenue selling commercials during games played by the schools. That money has been ballooned by sports books buying up commercial slots on games, those slots are worth a lot more because it is an audience that will buy what they are selling as opposed to spurtles.
When the in-game betting takes off (ESPN and Fox are already doing it by posting lines and stuff during games with ads for sports books across the bottom but the next wave will likely be allowing you to bet directly from your TV or whatever device your streaming on, with the sports book operated by the media company (BetESPN already exists). With that they will get the revenue directly or they'll get a commission if they don't operate the book. Either way, that makes the media event more valuable because it generates more revenue and thus, to get events that will generate the most gambling, they will pay the schools more, especially those schools that attract more gamblers.
The idea that the schools have no part in this is silly. They know that the new influxes in cash are directly from the legalization of sports books. Watching a sporting event and sitting through never ending gambling commercials while thinking the games are not going to be compromised as a result is just as silly.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
good points. legalized gambling definitely created more growth
and streaming services are also providing more options for live sports
so maybe the sports industry will continue to snowball
(In response to this post by Vienna_Hokie)
2
2hhoop3
2y
if/when somebody does a deep dive into the real values and money being made. You know intuitively a business can only operate so long if not making money and when looking at viewership numbers the continuing spiral upward seems inconsistent. However, the unknowns including ad rates/buys, cable and streaming fees, etc. when coupled with the live viewing nature of sports would seem to point to someone making money and likely lots of it.
That being said, it is a dynamic industry and counting on an ever increasing pie places a huge importance on understanding what drives the increases. An understanding essential to planning for the future. I freely admit I do not understand where the increases might be coming from and if they are coming from a L/T bet to control content to be sold on emerging new platforms that could be a game of musical chairs where the key is to get your money early so as to not be standing when the music stops. Perhaps @CobbCountyHokie or one of our other industry insiders can offer a more informed view of the future and the likelihood of a bubble bursting. I believe the college athletics bubble is primed to bust with the litigation, realignment, increased costs(scholarships, coaches, etc.) and other uncertainties. It has not happened yet but, you will know when it does as administrators will be heading for the door with increasing frequency as the gravy train ends.
(In response to this post by kingofcassell)
Here are some things that I think are important to note
First, only one streamer out there has made money, Netflix. All the other services have lost money, and some are really losing money. Peacock is a financial loser, so is Paramount +, etc.
The assumption was that the cable sub was going to migrate over to the streaming sub. That has not happened and has rocked the model. I will be extremely interested to see what comes of Venu as it launches this fall.
I still think that the money that media pumps into the college sports model may run short for content that is not part of the P2. At that point, things will go heavily toward individual PPV for content and I do not look forward to that day.
(In response to this post by 2hhoop3)
2y
If I remember correctly, the DVD rental side of the business kept the company solvent (along with venture capital) while it was building the streaming side of the company.
(In response to this post by CobbCountyHokie)
2y
(In response to this post by CobbCountyHokie)
2y
I have Hulu TV, they've doubled their price since I first signed up and more than doubled the number of channels. That's not what I wanted. I have no need for the hundreds of channels you get from cable TV. Hulu TV is slowly becoming the same thing. Same thing is happening with other streaming services. I basically only use live channels for sporting events. If they ever give me a service that allows me to have the live sports I want without the hundred plus other channels, then I'm done with live channels.
(In response to this post by CobbCountyHokie)
V
VTCALS72
2y
with the ACCN facilities and staffed by Bill Roths students. They would be hands down better than a lot of the pro announcers. I see big media producing no content beyond the P2, the Army/Navy league championship games and the FCS championships. I see big media contracting to "buy" x number of streamed games between teams they specify. I definitely don't see a BC/Wake game being pushed on big media in the future.
(In response to this post by wwhokie1)
2
2hhoop3
2y
seems to me to still be a dynamic and uncertain landscape being subsidized, at least to some extent by deep pocketed parent companies. Interesting news I saw yesterday that Texas plans a new Longhorn Network streaming focused where they will push out their own content. Not sure who, maybe it is Texas itself, who will fund the blackhole this time that was formerly bankrolled by ESPN in its previous cable venture.
(In response to this post by CobbCountyHokie)
2y
But if they revive the Longhorn Network, we should anticipate Texas high school sports to fill much of the space. NCAA disallowed that when the LHN started up. (Cited an unfair recruiting advantage) Among player salaries and NIL, LHN TV appearances will no longer move the recruiting needle.
(In response to this post by 2hhoop3)
2y
haven't seen streaming play out quite yet. Live content is in high demand.
(In response to this post by CobbCountyHokie)
That is Venu. I referred to it in my post.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
I think PPV is where it is headed for tier two sports events. It won’t be
that difficult for a school like VT to produce their own events. VT might need a streaming partner with server capacity to actually stream the game.
(In response to this post by CobbCountyHokie)
2y
schools that have sports broadcasting as a major. Start with the non revs, and lets see how th kids can do. The G5's should do this immediately.
(In response to this post by Femoyer Hokie)
2y
ratings but they are getting a huge increase. Live sports is the Ace card
(In response to this post by kingofcassell)
2y
someone’s in charge and the teams have agreed to follow a set of rules.
(In response to this post by TDVick)
2y
If the NBA operated like the NCAA, they'd just look the other way if the Bulls/Celtics/Lakers/Mavs/etc decided to cheat. But if the Pacers or Grizzlies took just one step out of line...
(In response to this post by mancunian)
S
Stech
2y
(In response to this post by Walkin` Willie)
2y
(In response to this post by Walkin` Willie)
2y
I did a lot of introspection over the past 4-5 years, and I came to the conclusion that it was silly for me to be so invested in college football, and that there are MUCH more meaningful ways for me to spend my time on fall Saturdays (such as being present with my family). And that's not a "sour grapes" take based on the fact that VT has been fielding lousy teams for nearly a decade now. I am absolutely appalled at what the sport has become, and if VT runs the table and wins a natty this season (ha!), I won't tune in and I won't feel like I missed anything, because I have found so much joy in doing things other than being glued to my TV all day on fall Saturdays.
So in a way, I view this whole mess as a blessing, since it helped precipitate the re-alignment of my personal priorities. It's sad to me in the sense that I feel this whole debacle is a poor reflection of where we are as a culture, but as far as feeling like I've lost something that was once dear to me, I really don't hold that sentiment.
(In response to this post by Walkin` Willie)
H
hokieZ71
2y
Minnesota, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, Mississippi St, Ole Miss, Arkansas, South Carolina, Kentucky, Missouri, Maryland, Nebraska, and Michigan State are “Power 2” schools, I want to be a Power 2 school.
I’m also 46 (with a 70 year old dad, so I totally get where you’re coming from after talking life these past few years with him), but I also want to take my kids up to big games and have them experience a VT game day much like I did during the late 90’s on in to the 2000’s. Going to VT - Wake Forest when both are in the minor leagues making peanuts…just wont be the same.
That just my opinion.
(In response to this post by Walkin` Willie)
2y
If we go P2 I prefer SEC because UF is only two hours away. I kind of like the revised ACC with the strong academic schools that some here have been mentioning if we are left out.
(In response to this post by Walkin` Willie)
2y
than be a part of this fiasco. VT is a university and its athletic programs should only exist to enhance to student experience.
My son just graduated from UC Santa Cruz. They have essentially no athletic program and an enrollment of 19,000 students and are ranked as the 40th top public school in the country.
All this talk about athletics being tied to enrollment and academic performance is BULL.
** Edited by Will Stewart at 6/25/2024, 6:35:53 PM
(In response to this post by Walkin` Willie)
R
RiverVT
2y
Just like in the 30s and 50s we were overlooked and perceived as freeloaders .
Let the old farts die on the vine and bring new energy and be part of the elite power conferences with our peers .
Leadership matters!!’
(In response to this post by VT ChemE 1986)
UCSC is a good school. Kudos to your son!!!
(In response to this post by VT ChemE 1986)
C
CoolJCPA
2y
I agree with your assessment that athletics should serve to enhance the overall student experience at a school. It's a bond for students and alumni and you can do that with a stadium having a capacity of 3k at Washington and Lee or Tennessee's 100k+. It definitely serves to add enjoyment to college. I despise what has become of college football and look forward to watching Roanoke College this year start their first season and then officially join the ODAC next year.
However, there is no arguing that VT's academics took off when the football team rose in prominence. If you take the average student that came to VT in the mid to late 80s and compare them to the students arriving today, they are a completely different caliber. Back in 1989 when I rolled onto campus, you could get in with a 2.7 GPA. That would be laughed at today. We actually have students choosing VT over UVA now in fields other than engineering. Maybe it's a coincidence, but I would argue the two go hand in hand.
Oh and the Towns of Christiansburg and Blacksburg and Montgomery County have benefited greatly from athletics as well.
The only way we will be able to tell is if VT drops into an "academic ACC" and see how that affects enrollment and caliber of the students we get. I hope it has no effect, but only time will tell.
** Edited by CoolJCPA at 6/25/2024, 5:16:47 PM
(In response to this post by VT ChemE 1986)
As a graduate (JD) of W&L I can say that sports are meaningful......
Nonetheless, W&L made the decision to eliminate athletic scholarships and drop to D3 despite going to the Gator Bowl in 1950 and beating up on VT 60-0 in 1951. It was a fairly successful program. But, ultimately, decisions were made that that trajectory of the football program was inconsistent with the mission of the university. Changes were made. See link. It worked out just fine for them.
Link:
W&L
(In response to this post by CoolJCPA)
2y
back in 1961 because she said it was too much of a party school. So my brother went to the "Hampden-Sydney School of Well-Behaved Young Men 24/7" instead... sheesh...
(In response to this post by CrystalCoveHokie)
2y
the pro leagues can do it, because the player's union agreed to it. Otherwise any restrictions on compensation are illegal restraint of trade as every court ruling that has created this disaster has said.
You really want to FUBAR college sports, get big labor involved in a so called not for profit world that rakes in $billions and has direct ties to gambling, including having contracts with media outlets that operate sports books. Yeah, none of that could possibly explode.
** Edited by Vienna_Hokie at 6/25/2024, 4:16:48 PM
(In response to this post by Walkin` Willie)