On Notre Dame đ.
A few random thoughts on Notre Dame:
1) Swarbrick can put his money where his mouth is and save the Cardinal and Cal Bears right now. Just join the ACC. In fact, they could probably save them just by giving the ACC a 6th game, but I digress.
2) You guys know, especially the ND posters on here, that I am not one to push for the Irish to give up its independence. I have pretty much been opposed to the partial membership from the start. And in a way, I think the way the situation is now, those who supported the move in the first place perhaps have buyer's remorse. So y'all know where I have stood on this.
3) Number 2 being said, I would love it for the Irish to join us right now. They can save Stanford, UC Berkeley. Perhaps Duke, Boston College, and other high-end academic private schools in the end. Heck, they can even bring in Tulane and Rice for all I care.
4) While doing this, they can prevent the P2 from further consolidating power by coming for big names FSU, Clemson, and UNC. ND would be the unquestionable leader of this conference. I'm not sure they would be as influential in the B1G or SEC.
5. While not an ND fan (truth be told, I was a Southern Cal fan as a kid until I became a Hokie), I always had a healthy respect for their school, program, and traditions. I understand their love for independence. But I never saw it as even one of the greatest traditions in the sport, or even the top tradition at Notre Dame.
6. Lastly, most people are resigned to the fact that if ND gives up independence, that they will simply join the Big Ten. I even saw the clip on Get Up this morning with Greeny interviewing Heather Dinich (both Big Ten alums *cough cough*), and they were both shilling for ND to back up their words about saving Cal and Stanford and join, not the ACC, but, wait for it....the Big Ten. Anyway, all of college football would rejoice if ND would back up their decades of resisting the Big Ten and stick it to them one final and conclusive time. If they do the opposite, it will be sad, and make the years of anti-Big Ten talk look cheap in retrospect. Anyway, c'mon Notre Dame, now is the time.
** Edited by Maroon Baboon at 8/11/2023, 3:05:35 AM
38 Replies
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Truthahn
2y
If we were to bring in Stanford and Cal, I say we hold tough on several points wrt ND.
ND has to play Cal and Stanford alternating as a "6th" ACC/ND game. Effectively this puts ND into a pod with them.
ND has permanent home and aways with all Stanford/Cal teams.
ND has to allow us to treat their games as "in-conference games"
ND gets a slot into our championship game, if they have a higher "in-conference" and total win percentage.
ND does not have to join the ACC for football. I think they could sell this to their fans, as "keeping independence", while helping out a "friend" (Stanford). The ACC can keep to the official line that they got some concessions from ND, but darn it, they just won't give up their independence.
This gives the ACC something real to sell for more TV money, and it removes some of the extra travel costs from the full time ACC teams, including the CA teams, and onto ND. If ND is "national" then that should be fine with them.
Otherwise, forget it. To pull this off, ND has to give something up, they can't use it as an opportunity to simply gain something for themselves, like the ability to include their Stanford rivalry as an ACC game without giving anything up. That should be a complete non-starter.
** Edited by Truthahn at 8/11/2023, 11:09:01 AM
(In response to this post by Maroon Baboon)
2y
I have advocated for years that the ACC count the ND games in the conference standings but make ND ineligible for the conference championship unless they play a full schedule. That being said, Iâm not sure whether this is allowable under NCAA or ACC by-laws but itâs worth exploring IMO.
If Iâm the ACC I would even be willing to approach Navy as a partial football-only member and let them play ND and three other rotating schools per year if it would get ND to play a full 8 game ACC slate.
Allowing ND access to the ACCCG on a partial schedule isnât as big an incentive with the playoff expanding to 12. In the 4-team days, a conference title carried a lot more weight. In a 12 team playoff ND is surely getting in with 10 regular season wins and maybe even 9 in most years. They have no chance at the first round bye of course but that doesnât seem to be an issue.
(In response to this post by Truthahn)
2y
for them. If they want to join full, then great. If not, so be it, but no more concessions. And absolutely not on ACCCG game access without a full conference slate.
(In response to this post by Truthahn)
2y
or is it a stated hangup in the negotiations?
(In response to this post by Truthahn)
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Truthahn
2y
This is just what I would consider our top points to stick to. If ND doesn't budge, then walk away. I hope we at least tried something close to this. We don't need to do anything to "save" the CA teams. If it is important to ND, then they can contribute something to the cause.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
2y
should walk away. If this is about stability and revenue for the ACCN, the ACC needs to crunch the numbers, and take a long look at this.
Even if it's a wash on current revenue for the teams in the ACC now (- travel), there could be some real and tangible long term value and stability.
I don't have a dog in this hunt, other than wanting the ACC to be a strong and viable conference. i do not want to see a P2 break away, and i don't give a rats anything if the ACC makes more money than the B12.
(In response to this post by Truthahn)
2y
As much as people think that it will make sense for ND to join a conference sooner rather than later, they simply do not want to. Right now, they have an in to the CFP as an Independent and an athletic department that generates plenty of revenue without a conference. For them, itâs self serving to keep the ACC together for as long as possible because the ACC gives them a high profile home for all their sports outside of hockey. Expanding the conference would make it harder to dissolve the conference in the short term. If the ACC blows up, I doubt the BIG or the SEC offer them the same home for their Olympic sports without football.
(In response to this post by Maroon Baboon)
2y
And it will always be. Good luck getting out of this mess.
(In response to this post by JLM-Hokie)
2y
(In response to this post by JLM-Hokie)
2y
Programs leave. They're pushing for Stanford and Cal not because they are going to be a financial benefit currently, but because they will help keep the ACC afloat if the ACC loses its top four football programs. Notre Dame is more concerned about what the ACC looks like outside of football, and not so concerned about increasing per school payouts.
(In response to this post by JLM-Hokie)
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VTCALS72
2y
the P2 with all the money for them. They have no interest in fighting the P2 takeover, they are a part of the movement behind it.
(In response to this post by Maroon Baboon)
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Mercury
2y
the issue for ND is they have a contract for 5 games a year for ACC game through 2036. If they have stanford, their position is great, we will drop one of the other ACC teams and stanford will be out ACC game.
WRONG, and they just need to tell ND.
1. we will select the ACC Schools exclusive to stanford and they will be your acc designated schools. PERIOD
2. iF you dont, you are in violation of the Grant of Rights for ACC as membership, and we keep your shares as well. or take us to court... BRING IT ON.
3. IF ACC had the votes without ND, can they also put in the directive specifically that Stanford will not be one of the designated schools that counts in the 5 schools or no 2, ACC designates what schools ACC plays and ACC is done and guess what Stanford is not part of the rotation, so you can either drop Stanford and move on.
4. Also, with USC moving to the Big 10 their schedule gets difficult. With Big 10 and ND get dicey, maybe they say ND you are not part of the Big 10 thing, so you have arrange the USC thang around the Big 10 schedule not visa.versa. ND you are squeezed.
(In response to this post by Maroon Baboon)
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obguthr
2y
If ESPN bumps the ACC deal to $50-$55 mil per school, should ACC add Notre Dame, Cal, and Stanford, they would have footholds in both Fox's midwestern and west coast markets. F$U would finally STFU. Cal and Stanford would be saved.
(In response to this post by Maroon Baboon)
I donât know why Notre Dame has any interest in saving Cal or Stanford.
Or why anyone in the ACC wants to save them, for that matter. I still do not believe there is any way in hell that ESPN is going to pay an expanded ACC more per school than they are today, if Cal and Stanford are the schools.
The real answer, in my view, is for ACC football to actually downsize to 9 or 10 teams, and get Notre Dame to join the streamlined conference. Wake, BC, Syracuse, Duke, and one or two of UVA/Pitt/Louisville also gone. THAT is how you increase the payouts per school while still allowing ESPN to cut its total contact costs. Addition by subtraction.
(In response to this post by Maroon Baboon)
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TerryD
2y
ND is single minded and unwavering about independence.
The reason ND is pushing Stanford and Cal is to prop up the ACC so that ND football can stay independent.
Joining the ACC in full is not in the cards.
Hopefully, neither is joining the Big Ten or SEC.
The main reason that ND joined the ACC in the first place was to protect independence.
Other sports, football recruiting and bowl bids were secondary reasons, but make no mistake.
The fact that the ACC didn't require ND football to join is the main reason.
Joining the ACC was a move to stay out of the Big Ten in 2012.
(In response to this post by HolidayInnHokie)
2y
Itâs pushing for cal and Stanford because theyâre long time opponents and itâs advantageous to the Irish to have them in the ACC if itâs conference deal requires them to play ACC schools
(In response to this post by TerryD)
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Stech
2y
TerryD has taught me that win-win is not in NDâs vocabulary. Thus they are not a good partner, and itâs time for the Magnificent 7 +1 to move on, versus staying in jail for 13 years, at least money wise. Mainly because there are no schools left to acquire that would cut the money deficit, the ACC sat on its hands to long, hoping the old days would come back.
(In response to this post by Hokie1992)
2y
1. The delusion that we are independent will have to be completely dead right? At that point we really are just clinging to a marketing gimmick.
2. We added another game with no benefit to us in reality. We did not gain access to anything, just gave up access (I know that sounds selfish)
The outcry will be massive if we did this. I would be first to say just join a damn conference, this is ridiculous.
(In response to this post by Stech)
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Stech
2y
since you are adding the west coast that you desire and many important schools in the ACC do not want to add it. (Good for them, these Coast to Coast Conferences are horrible for the student athlete) I don't know how one other team in the conference benefits from this move, so if you want to die on that hill for one game, you will likely get something far worse as far as achieving your goal of independence, the consequences are likely the opposite of what you are stating is your objective.
It's time for time for the Mag 7 + 1 to move on, zero help from ND even when it helps them and there aren't any other schools left that the ACC can add that will cut the money gap, it's only going to grow larger with time. All avenues have been explored and it is time to get to where the puck is going!
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
2y
But adding more attachment will look like this.
6- ACC Games
USC
Navy
Buy-game (Marshall (paid to lose), TSU)
OCC
OcC
OCC
That is a conference schedule, without the benefit of a conference schedule. In my opinion I would say end this charade, just go all in.
(In response to this post by Stech)
2y
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
2y
I do not believe we want to be locked into a 6th game. Swarbrick knows what the reaction will be to that. The choice is what matters. If we choose to schedule Stanford again than so be it. But it should not be mandated. I hate the Stanford game already, this will make it more so. THey are not a heated rival. VT games have much more passion than the normal run of the mill Stanford game.
** Edited by goldendomer at 8/11/2023, 11:20:27 AM
(In response to this post by SpeakToDamien)
2y
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
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Stech
2y
17 teams to play in the B1G. Face it, unless you join the B1G, you probably won't play them every year anyway. So alternate Stanford and Cal as one of the 6 to get west coast exposure for recruiting. It doesn't matter though, ND will always make up excuses for not doing it, which tells me that they are one step closer to joining the B1G. I know your big donors don't want to join a conference or add 1 more game, but instead I think ND by doing this, is one step closer to joining a Conference. They know the consequences of their actions, so maybe the ACC imploding gets them closer to having to join the B1G. Maybe that's what the administration wants anyway, an out for the inevitable. Future actions will tell us soon enough.
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
2y
a 1-1 with ND. If they left the ACC for the Big east for instance, would VT, Clemson, or FSU turn down a 1-1 with ND? They have no difficulties scheduling football games as an independant.
(In response to this post by Stech)
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Stech
2y
going to get a whole lot harder for an Independent to get games. For instance the B1G is 18 teams now and many think they are not done expanding. The SEC is 16 and I don't think they are done expanding. All of that is going to make it harder for ND to schedule independent games with Conferences trying to make sure all the teams play each other in a reasonable time. The ACC butchered their football scheduling over the years and it hurt. We have hardly played Clemson or FSU, now they drop the Miami game from every year. So believe me being independent even if you are Notre Dame is only going to get much harder, especially if the ACC falls apart. IMHO I don't think it is much longer before they join the B1G and that's why they won't add a 6th game.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
2y
ND will have no problem filling it's schedule. Ohio State and Michigan could do the same. Alabama and LSU could as well, add in Texas, Oklahoma, and USC. Maybe I miss one or two, but no matter how you slice it, if there is access to the National championship for an independent, ND will remain independent.
(In response to this post by Stech)
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Stech
2y
the B1G and SEC schedules with so many teams just won't want to play a team outside of conference to risk a loss. They are going to have a hard enough time playing the ones in the conference. The landscape for teams wanting to play out of conference games is going to get much much tougher.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
2y
Olympic sports. They did not need 5 games a year against ACC opponents. They could go to the Big East with that group of Catholic schools in a heartbeat The ACC however, distributes over 17M, while the Big East disbursements amount to under 10M (I forget the exact number).
So, for around $8M dollars, the ACC gets 5 guaranteed games against ND. That works out to about 1.6M per game. I would argue that, especially with the conference changes, that the ACC needs ND more than ND needs the ACC.
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
2y
partnered with. Not another party who has different intentions. That is partly why the ACC is such a mess. Some small private schools, some large institutions who are more interested in the football side, etc.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
2y
You think you can get 12 ACC schools to vote to expel 5 teams from the conferrence? At least 2 teams would have to vote to expel themselves.
(In response to this post by HolidayInnHokie)
2y
Even with ND in the conference for football and a part of the ACC football media rights contract, I just don't see the media companies being willing to pay the ACC as much per school as the B1G and SEC will be getting. I mean, ND already plays 5 ACC games per year, so that's 2 to 3 ND games per year that are already a part of the ACC media contract. Another 6 to 7 ND football games per year in the contract won't get us to SEC or B1G money.
** Edited by tarheelblue at 8/10/2023, 11:21:12 PM
(In response to this post by Maroon Baboon)
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Stech
2y
Duke, Wake etc. itâs great to good ratings for đ, but a lot of đ money goes to pay many of the bills for the NCAA.
** Edited by Stech at 8/11/2023, 7:08:10 AM
(In response to this post by tarheelblue)
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VPI_1998
2y
by a single University who isn't even a full member right now. If so, that speaks to how bad the ACC leadership (and football) is right now. I and many others posting here have said a number of times the best thing the ACC can do is have their football teams - especially the bigger programs - perform better on the field. Clemson has been the one consistent top ten (even top 20!) program for the past 5 years! FSU appears to be coming around. But ACC football teams like VT, Miami, UNC need to step up fast. Stop losing to ODU, Middle Tennessee and East Carolina and get consistent. There's no shame in losing to an SEC team but it seems like every year the ACC has teams that lose multiple games to mediocre G5 teams - it needs to STOP
(In response to this post by tarheelblue)
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Truthahn
2y
It won't happen, because only the ACC gains in this scenario, but ND vs any of the MAG7 teams would be elevated to B10 status by this, as well as our championship game. All of the ND home games would be great for ACC's TV contract. Sports shows would be all over how good the ACC was, if this were to happen.
IMO, the best way to get to B10 money would be to replace Wake with ND. Add to the top and remove from the bottom (in terms of TV desirability, especially considering we have four schools in one state).
This would make everyone in the ACC very happy, including FSU, IMO. It would make us a solid P3 conference overnight.
(In response to this post by SpeakToDamien)