ND is pushing Stanford
Larry Williams
@LarryWilliamsTI
·
17m
Am told Notre Dame, as a full voting member of the ACC, is pushing hard for the additions of Stanford and Cal. That "full voting member" part is ... something. Writing on this shortly
Clemson beat guy
89 Replies
They just need to ask ND what teams and what price will it take to get them
to join.
Between the networks, they can probably make a lot happen for ND. Maybe a deal where teams currently "unavailable" change their mind.
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
T
TerryD
2y
ND is not going to join for football.
Hell, the Big Ten is offering them $100 million a year, plus USC, Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, Penn State, etc....
ND told them "No thanks".
The ACC cannot offer anything to get ND to give up football independence.
(In response to this post by vatechcowpatty)
Yeah, I pretty much posted that same thing 2 days ago. I’d just like to
know what ND wants, and now suddenly the ACC has something ND desires. There’s no way I’d give in to ND over Stanford if I’m the ACC ADs. ND doesn’t have a bunch of other options if they don’t want to join a conference.
(In response to this post by TerryD)
2y
Let FSU, Clemson, VT and whoever (NC State? Louisville?) out of the GoR in exchange for adding Stanford, Cal, SMU, Rice, Tulane, Army, Navy, and Air Force.
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
2y
How would that conference survive?
I really like your input here, but you can't on one hand say ND should always make decisions only in their best interest and then turn around and say the current ACC teams should be altruistic for an academic conference - which would not be in their best interest.
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
2y
What's in it for ND?
I hear that's how ND is always supposed to make decisions? - what's good for them - not for the good of anything else.
Why not Stanford come be our independent friend? - we'll help with that.
I'm actually fine with ND making those business decisions - just don't pretend there aren't other issues then "friendship" in this decision.
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
2y
That is my guess
(In response to this post by RTFC)
2y
All of CFB has become irony and illusion.
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
2y
Protecting it.
Who knows, it is all nuts.
(In response to this post by RTFC)
2
2hhoop3
2y
some consternation but, at some point the cost of maintaining independence may be like the person spending $30 in gas to save $5 on some sale item. I applaud the Irish for their quest to maintain independence even though it agitates me from time to time when I perceive that they receive favorable treatment beyond which their accomplishments might warrant. I hope it works out for everybody before the sport becomes irreparably damaged, if it has not been already.
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
2y
It is entertaining and funny at times. Sometimes absurd.
(In response to this post by 2hhoop3)
2y
(In response to this post by hokieZ71)
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TerryD
2y
Which is when ND will abandon independence and join for football.
(In response to this post by Windows NT)
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Stech
2y
don’t need to lose a game because of expansion IMHO.
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
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TerryD
2y
Its a democracy. The ACC can reject Stanford and Cal, no problem.
(In response to this post by Stech)
2y
If you want to play Stanford - play Stanford. Whether they are a member of ACC or not doesn't change that.
Several ACC teams have played other ACC teams in a "non-conference game" just to play them.
(In response to this post by IB4TECH)
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TerryD
2y
Its a sixth football game a year versus teams in a single conference.
ND wants to avoid "mission creep". Five games and no more.
They don't want the ACC to come back and say "Its just two more games now to join in full, what are two more games.".
Its a matter of "This far and no further."
(In response to this post by RTFC)
2y
Not your business which conference they are in - not relevant to the existing contract with the existing schools.
If this is a business decision, as ND always claims, then it is business for the existing ACC football teams as well - don't dilute our games, that's changing the contract.
Why would existing ACC teams agree to let Stanford play ND every year and take their place some years?
** Edited by RTFC at 8/10/2023, 7:34:28 AM
(In response to this post by TerryD)
T
TerryD
2y
I understand and respect that business decision.
Anyway, Stanford is not on any ND future schedule after 2026.
(In response to this post by RTFC)
2y
Is that a "its okay if WE reject this" or a "its okay if the ACC rejects this" ?
ND is part of that business decision - just (right now) on the losing side - they don't get to "understand and respect" it from outside the bubble. They were part of it, but wanted something else.
If you want something, ND obviously does, then pony up something in return.
Don't try and use it to change the existing contract with the existing schools.
(In response to this post by TerryD)
T
TerryD
2y
Of everyone, ND is in the best shape no matter what.
Life goes on.
Good luck to everyone.
(In response to this post by RTFC)
2y
what they don't want - conference affiliation.
Not sure about long term indy status.
With the demise and less influence of the P4/5 - the P2 aren't going to have their commissioners meet and let another person representing only one team be at the table and have significant influence.
Both P2s would really want ND, but what they are willing to give up to get them is declining daily.
In a P2 world it is quickly becoming apparent that there will be more very strong schools than they can schedule effectively. If I could wave a magic wand and VT was in a P2 scenario there are many more teams I'd pick to have home games against over ND - Bama, UGA, TA&M or UM, OSU, USCw. Right now ND is a golden ticket to many of the ACC schools - one of biggest of the year. With just P2 type schools involved ND becomes just another game.
"Losing" ND to the other P2 wouldn't be as big a deal.
(In response to this post by TerryD)
2
2hhoop3
2y
the biggest of which at present is money. They need that NBC contract renewal to hit the money mark or they will be faced with the choice of joining up or having their donors valuing independence to pony up.
The second issue is a little more nuanced in that it involves playoff access and playoff relevance. The Rose Bowl played that card masterfully for a number of years pushing their spot because the playoff needed access to the teams the Rose Bowl contracted with. ND has a similar situation. As long as they remain good enough or the Committee at least believes they are they require a seat at the table. If their performance no longer stamps them as a perennial playoff threat their ability to demand a seat is weakened, their access potentially threatened and ultimately their independence challenged to join a conference to guarantee playoff access if performance warrants. That was ND's whole goal with CFP expansion, to strengthen the access likelihood with expansion to 12 and/or 16 later and thereby strengthen their independent position.
(In response to this post by RTFC)
2y
and when there are numerous people around the committee table they belong as much as a rep of the G5 conferences or of the previous P5.
If it really gets down to P2 and some combination of the B12 and ACC leftovers there will be fewer seats at the table, and only two are really going to count.
Just like VT, for different reasons, ND's performance over next 2-3 years is also key.
(In response to this post by 2hhoop3)
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hokieZ71
2y
(In response to this post by Stech)
2y
I agree....I think this would be a reasonable ask of ND...would they be willing to play 6 games against the expanded ACC?...Goldendomer, any thoughts from your perspective?
(In response to this post by Stech)
2y
Not possible imo. That would almost be full membership
** Edited by goldendomer at 8/9/2023, 7:06:50 PM
(In response to this post by 133177Hokie)
M
mjfhokie
2y
What if the sixth game was always Stanford?
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
2y
(In response to this post by mjfhokie)
ACC negotiators have a heart of gold.
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
Is Neil Young part of the negotiating team?
(In response to this post by RoswellGAHokie)
2y
They’re 5 ACC games per year on Stanford and/or Cal, helps free up their schedule while still fulfilling ACC commitment. Typical ND.
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
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Stech
2y
(In response to this post by hokiesrule98)
M
Marooned
2y
Makes total sense - for ND
(In response to this post by hokiesrule98)
2y
Maybe it will lead to something better though.
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
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TerryD
2y
Its stellar baseball program played as an independent.
There is no such legal thing as a "partial member".
ND is a full, voting member who happens to play football as an independent.
(In response to this post by HokiePail)
2y
I don't blame the ACC for doing it, even with a small chance of success.
(In response to this post by HokiePail)
E
EDGEMAN
2y
...ACC Football?
The ACC should tell ND, "we'll take that under advisement."
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
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TerryD
2y
Why is it perfectly fine and wonderful for schools to change conferences for that they think is in their best interests but it is somehow not okay for ND to make moves to preserve independence, which is that they think is in their best interests???
(In response to this post by EDGEMAN)
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TerryD
2y
Life goes on.
(In response to this post by EDGEMAN)
2y
This is a good move to play the long game for ND.
And the ACC gave them full voting rights in exchange for some yearly games so they are playing within the rules that the ACC set. Any finger pointing needs to be at the ACC leadership, not ND. Every non-decision or bad decision behind the current situation goes back to the ACC leadership.
(In response to this post by EDGEMAN)
2y
** Edited by RonMexicoHokie at 8/9/2023, 5:12:42 PM
** Edited by RonMexicoHokie at 8/9/2023, 5:13:01 PM
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
2y
Every hour that goes by with no updates, I'm thinking more and more that the ACC will take Cal and Stanford.
And if this is a true money grab for new states then I would not be surprised if SMU also got added to get Texas. The three of them don't add any value for football, but it leverages the old cable subscriber revenue model to help find more money for the ACC.
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
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HOO86
2y
That's many subscribers for the ACC Network.
(In response to this post by HokieAl)
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HOO86
2y
I have thought about it, and we can make it work if we are able to add some more to fill the geography gap. SMU would be a start, but we will need a few more to be in the Central and Mountain time zones. Since the goal is to cover time zones these days. Stanford, Cal, and for that matter SMU are all good schools. I think SMU can do what Baylor and TCU are doing if they get into a P5 Conference.
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
2y
It would be another couple hours per flight on 4-5 flights per year. Not really that huge of a deal (talking football only).
(In response to this post by HOO86)
2y
The ACC has to be proactive.
(In response to this post by HOO86)
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HOO86
2y
Apparently a group of SMU boosters will come up with $200 million to fund the first 5-7 years for SMU to make the ACC deal happen.
Must be nice.
** Edited by HOO86 at 8/9/2023, 9:51:35 PM
(In response to this post by HokiePail)
R
RJHokie
2y
A lot of oil and gas money in that state.
(In response to this post by HOO86)
Potential for graft and felony behavior I think
(In response to this post by HokieJamie)
1
13HOKIE
2y
all for it. Otherwise no way!
** Edited by 13HOKIE at 8/9/2023, 9:02:47 PM
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
2y
Friend out. Stanford and ND have a great relationship
(In response to this post by 13HOKIE)
V
Vippie1
2y
kind of like ND rents a part time home on a nice cul-de-sac. And the community association of full time property owners gets to decide who can build on a new lot and ND runs in screaming strong support for the Jones .
Give me a break. Even the most mega maniac amongst ND fandom knows that they better give something in return or keep their freakin mouths shut on this one.
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
I guess Notre Dame isn't friends with the ACC?
If they were, they would be helping the troubled ACC out right now by becoming a full member. ;)
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
T
TerryD
2y
ND views joining for any conference for football as akin to stabbing oneself, something it really, really never wants to do, ever.
(In response to this post by Old Line Hokie)
T
TDVick
2y
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
M
Marooned
2y
Some hesitancy? 🤣
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
2y
Old Big East / ACC = business partners
Standford, Navy, USC and other long time rivals = Friends
So ACC should do what’s best for full ACC members and give little weight to what ND wants
Wish it wasn’t this way but it is
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
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Hokester
2y
(In response to this post by Hokie12thman)
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TerryD
2y
...format that they hoped would force ND to abandon independence and join the ACC,
At that point, it was self defense for ND to preserve independence.
(In response to this post by Hokester)
H
Hokester
2y
trying to get Notre Dame to play by the same rules as everybody else is not back stabbing. College football has been giving the Irish special treatment for way too long. I have said here before that I don't blame ND for using that treatment to their advantage. However, when the ACC threw ND a lifeline during Covid, ND thanked them by secretly working with the SEC to expand the playoff. Now ND wants the ACC to save Stanford, one of its real friends. Fine by me as long as ND agrees to a 6th ACC football game.
(In response to this post by TerryD)
T
TerryD
2y
This is all about saving football independence.
(In response to this post by Hokester)
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TerryD
2y
(In response to this post by Hokester)
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TerryD
2y
...heartbeat to join the ACC.
Why?
To preserve football independence. ND is single minded and very determined about that.
That is more important to ND than any conference or rivals or any other school.
** Edited by TerryD at 8/9/2023, 11:47:58 PM
(In response to this post by Hokie12thman)