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Zanderhokie Zanderhokie OP
May 28, 2024 at 12:23 PM ET
Random fact: no VT basketball coach has won 60% or more career games since
Charlie Moir (1978 - 1987) did it, posting a .642 career win percentage. Before Coach Moir, coaches Don Devoe (.662) and Chuck Noe (.681) won better than 60 percent of the games they coached at Tech. Since 1987, we've essentially been mired in mediocrity, or slightly above average. Coaches Frankie Allen, Bobby Hussey, Ricky Stokes, and James Johnson all finished with career losing records at VT. Buzz Williams posted the best winning percentage (.592) in recent years. Mike Young is right behind him at .582.

79 Replies

T
TDVick
What conclusion do you make that MY and Buzz basically have the same
winning percentage? I think that it is an amazing testament to MY's coaching ability. Both he and Buzz inherited gutted teams their first year. In any sport, football or basketball, it seems that some coaches are either good at recruiting OR coaching and have a shortcoming on one of those dimensions and you have to pick a poison. In my opinion, Buzz has the cache to walk into living rooms and land recruits quite a bit better then MY can. He seems very tight with Jimmy Butler. Whether MY is a better coach than Buzz is up for debate, but when you figure in the lack of drama and other factors, MY is about as good a hire as we are ever going to find.
Zanderhokie Zanderhokie OP
They’re both good coaches, decent winning percentages at Virginia Tech
Buzz is the better coach when you consider overall career winning percentage. He’s currently 350-217 (.617) overall in his 17 seasons as a head coach in college basketball. Mike Young is now 391-310 (.558) overall in 22 seasons. They’re good coaches and probably about as good as Tech can ever hope to have. But they’re nowhere near the top rung of coaches in terms of lifetime winning percentage. Like these guys, for comparison’s sake: Mark Few (.883) who amazingly has the best winning percentage of any college basketball coach with at least 600 wins. Adolph Rupp (.822) John Wooden (.804) Jerry Tarkanian (.784) Dean Smith (.777) Roy Williams (.774) Bill Self (.768) Mike Krzyzewski (.766) John Calipari (.757)
T
TDVick
My point is 1) who is the best we can get and 2) who will stay around
We certainly knew that Buzz wasn't going to be around long. Even if he was tad better coach than MY, when you combine those metrics, it is "No contest." Most anyone else that we could get that would be as good as MY would be looking to jump or would be getting pirated away.
Zanderhokie Zanderhokie OP
Random fact #2: the last VT coach with a winning conference record is
also Charlie Moir, who posted a 62-48 mark in Metro Conference games. Since Moir left in 1987, every single VT basketball coach has had a losing overall record in conference. That includes Mike Young, though he’s not far under .500, currently sitting at 45-48 in ACC games.
G
GCHokie34
All that cheating for 8 more wins...
V
VT One
And drama.
G
GCHokie34
The funny thing is if MY goes 8-3 to start non-conf next season...
Then they have the exact same record And didn't even have to take an SAT test for someone
T
TDVick
Mike Young is quite a treasure when you lay out these points. I just hope
that VT can outbid VCU for some talent (Lawal), pick off some overlooked Dukies and land a rangy FSU bench player that would probably be more athletic than anyone on last year's team. If the fans and the administration help him get a decent level of roster talent, he can do a lot with it. ** Edited by TDVick at 6/8/2024, 4:17:28 PM
B
Blueboy
Is that speculation or factual?
G
GCHokie34
Buzz was 100-69...MY is 92-66
So yes, factual
J
Jackie VT
I’m thinking that wasn’t the part of your post that he’s asking about.
G
GCHokie34
I'm aware...just not feeding the troll
S
SHPHOKIE
Looks like you shot your mouth off and instead of backing it up with
facts you have resorted to name calling. Very classy.
G
GCHokie34
Lol what
B
Blueboy
He is not smart enough to figure that out.
2
2hhoop3
Are you...
smart enough to figure that out? It might be worth your time to consider.
King of Hokies King of Hokies
You cannot be discounting the sweet 16, can you? Oh yeah, don't
know what I was thinking
G
GCHokie34
Not at all...they account for exactly 2 of Buzz's 100 wins
H
hokieZ71
And if MY went 2-0 against St Louis and Liberty to get a Sweet 16
There would be Buzz fans saying MY lucked into a Sweet 16. ** Edited by hokieZ71 at 6/2/2024, 7:05:39 PM
J
Jackie VT
I’m against people diminishing Sweet 16 appearances and….
….ACC Championships. Those are the two best accomplishments in Hokie Basketball history and people like to find faults in them. I don’t understand that mindset.
G
GCHokie34
"Lightning in a bottle"
King of Hokies King of Hokies
Yeah, because all wins are the same
G
GCHokie34
What are you even talking about at this point?
The whole thread is about overall record... You don't get double points for beating Liberty and Saint Louis ** Edited by GCHokie34 at 6/2/2024, 7:48:38 PM
Hokie101 Hokie101
And if a frog had wings
He wouldn’t be a frog😝
G
GCHokie34
You're suggesting 8-3 is out of the question?
M
Midwestguy
LOL
V
VT One
I’m not predicting anything about the coming season. But I will remind
people that in Mike Young’s first season he inherited a roster of four. Through some late high school reclassifications and hard staff work Young put a team on the court that went 16-16. That was phenomenal given the circumstances. Maybe the chemistry of this year’s team will come together in a similar fashion with, in my opinion, a more talented roster. ** Edited by VT One at 5/30/2024, 9:24:04 PM
A
atlhokie1
Not taking sides
But Buzz inherited the post JJ mess so his rebuild wasn't a picnic either. Of course, MY's mess was left by Buzz......
M
millmtnhokie
In expanded 64 team fields Moir may have went to 8 tournaments and made
a sweet 16 or two. His teams were fun to watch but players weren’t graduating and it ended badly with the entire Russell Pierre situation. From an X and O perspective Shannon and Devoe were a level above the Moir Williams and Greenbergs. and several levels above others. Bill Foster was a good coach too I thought.
V
Vippie1
Maybe an unpopular opinion
but Moir was not a great bench coach - his players often played very poorly in end of game situations. Of course that may be on the players too. Williams, Greenberg, Foster were all excellent with the Xs and Os- I assume Devoe was also , but was a bit before my time. Truthfully all the coaches today are better and should be- they have enormous resources in staff facilities and technology , and more athletic players for the most part. And get paid like kings. Not to mention every new coach gets to borrow from thousands of former old coaches. ** Edited by Vippie1 at 5/30/2024, 3:57:43 PM
U
uber hokie
Moir strength was recruiting. He brought in some talent. Like all coaches
he had weaknesses.
Hoakie82 Hoakie82
Don’t expect anyone to know but I wonder how strength of schedule compared?
UTPr0sim UTPr0sim
And they forced Devoe out. Sharp admins...
Chris Coleman Chris Coleman
I think they were mad because he publicly went after the OSU job.
But that's before my time, so somebody correct me if I'm wrong.
santafe santafe
You are correct. There may have been other underlying reasons, but that was
the crux of the situation.
E
eokhokie
navigation?Was my understanding. Devoe was told to sign a contract "now"
YBYSAIAHokie YBYSAIAHokie
That's the way I remember it.
VT offered him a contract continuation but he didn't sign it because he wanted the Ohio State job. I think he was an OSU Alum.
TomTurkey TomTurkey
Yep, my recollection. My years 70-75.
I think he wouldn't commit to stay so the AD cut him loose.
R
RJHokie
Moseley told Devoe not to interview for the job.
But I believe Devoe played for OhioState and interviewed anyway. So Moseley fired him and Devoe didn’t get the job anyway. Believe Devoe wound up at Wyoming then later at Navy. Devoe has attended some of the VT basketball reunions.
Femoyer Hokie Femoyer Hokie
He played on the 1962 team with John Havlicek, John Lucas and Bobby Knight.
MidloHokie MidloHokie
That would be "Jerry" Lucas, not John.
Femoyer Hokie Femoyer Hokie
LOL. My bad.
E
EDGEMAN
Wow, what a lineup!
Chris Coleman Chris Coleman
Wyoming, then Tennessee, and later Navy.
Had a lot of success at Tennessee in the first half of his tenure. Five straight NCAA Tournaments (which was really hard to do back then) plus a Sweet 16. Also took Navy to three NCAA Tournaments.
TomTurkey TomTurkey
Wasn't he an assistant under Bobby Knight?
MidloHokie MidloHokie
Yes
vatechcowpatty vatechcowpatty
At Tennessee where he got ***** slapped in the locker room by Kevin Nash.
Lucky it wasn’t a powerbomb.
K
KCHokie2
Nash also dangled Vanilla Ice off a balcony for the royalties to Ninja Rap.
Or maybe I'm getting my stories confused. ** Edited by KCHokie2 at 5/30/2024, 10:44:52 PM
Chris Coleman Chris Coleman
Lol, forgot about that.
Will Stewart Will Stewart
Nash (briefly) tells the story here ...
A
atlhokie1
Francis lost some weight
V
VT One
That was the rationalization at the time.
Z
ZBeliever
all coaches records link
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/virginia-tec... These 2 are close to Mike Young and Buzz Williams. C. Foster .564 S. Greenberg .580 Frankie Allen, Bobby Hussey, Ricky Stokes, and James Johnson had some tough seasons. I remember Frankie was 19-9 his first season. I won't comment on those prior to the 70s. Above 50% surely had decent success as coaches.
Will Stewart Will Stewart
Here's how you post a link on our boards ...
Zanderhokie Zanderhokie OP
Greatest winning % all-time, any VT basketball coach ever: Harlan Sanborn
who went 17-2 (.895) in his one season at VPI from 1916-1917. But for coaches who stayed longer than one season, it's Branch Bocock, who went a solid 57-13 (.814), coaching two seasons from 1909 to 1911 and then three seasons from 1913 to 1916. Even more amazing: he was also VT's head football coach at that time (compiling a record of 34-14-2), AND was the head baseball coach for three seasons, leading VPI to a record of 38-18-2 on the diamond. Let's get that guy back!
R
RJHokie
Maybe there is a Branch Bocock descendant that is
still alive and kicking who is a good coach that might be available 😁. Not withstanding that, finding his grave site and having a seance at the site might prove productive 😏.
T
Truthahn
How's our cloning research going?
NC Hoke NC Hoke
VT basketball was strong back then, also a random fact.
Those were good coaches and teams. We had good recruiting. The Hokies actually were playing in the NCAA tournament elite 8 back in 1967, 9 years ahead of UVa playing in it’s first tournament. I believe that was Howie Shannon’s team.
MidloHokie MidloHokie
Right, Howie Shannon. He actually taught my "Psychology of Coaching" class
. . . in 1972 after 'retiring'. He was a much better coach than instructor.
YBYSAIAHokie YBYSAIAHokie
I had Howie Shannon teach my Golf Gym class. Craig Lieder was in the class.
I also knew his daughter Maggie. I was a cheerleader and she was trying out for the squad and I had to teach her the stunts.
V
vtox1
Do you know why Shannon retired? Seems like he was winning enough. How old
was he at retirement? Did he have health issues that caused him to step down?
R
RJHokie
He had a quite promiscuous daughter from what I heard……
Don’t know if that had anything to do with it.
MidloHokie MidloHokie
Had absolutely nothing to do with it. Remember, it was the 70's :)
R
RJHokie
Yeah, morality was at an all time low then - right? 😁
Back then coaches pay was not nearly as inflated as it is now. Howie probably got tired of the grind and found something else a lot less stressful. I remember Sonny Randle’s pay as the Hoowah football coach was $17,500, and his wife also worked (and not for U Va).
MidloHokie MidloHokie
He did have some issues. Think ….
….. Jimmy Sharpe. Had a hard time with Early Times. He was a nice guy though and a good coach.
R
RJHokie
Jimmy also had a “wandering eye”, particularly when it came to
“socializing” with booster wives……
2
2hhoop3
That something else......
I think was director of the physical education department at VT where one of his duties included supervising War Memorial. I do not think he left VT and came back to that position. The 69-70 season was tough(his only losing one I think) and it wore him down some, that and dealing with some athletic administrators. I think when Devoe came to VT he was a hotshot 29 year old on the rise and the management style of those athletic administrators hadn't changed much from Shannon's days.
R
RJHokie
I believe Paul Gunsten held the director of physical education or director
of intramural sports position while I was there (65-69). I worked for him my sophomore year as an intramural official for football and volleyball. He was a really good manager. I also believe he came from Bridgewater College and his daughter was the Hokie Bird mascot for at least one year. He may have taken another position at VT or another school after I graduated. ** Edited by RJHokie at 6/1/2024, 5:46:49 PM
2
2hhoop3
Gunsten may have retired.......
or moved on and when Howie first joined PE it may have been as just a faculty member as the description in my previous post used what he eventually became. My mistake.
MidloHokie MidloHokie
Paul Gunsten was IM Director through my graduation ('74). I officiated . .
. . . intramural basketball. He recruited some his favorites, including me, to call HS games in the then New River District. We all had JV games. Former VT QB coached the Giles County team and I once T's him up. Fun times.
V
VT One
Well there are going to be worse winning percentages playing an ACC
schedule. And having to play an out of conference schedule commensurate with getting a look from the NCAA selection committee. ** Edited by VT One at 5/28/2024, 3:56:55 PM
2
2hhoop3
If you look at career........
coaching records in the ACC there are a lot of mediocre or slightly above average coaches not named Smith, Coach K, and a few others but, they were still very good coaches. The ACC for a very long time has been a league absent a few blue blood programs and special seasons that come out of no where built on protecting homecourt and stealing a few on the road(i.e., .500 or slightly above) and it is doubtful VT coaches now or going forward will substantially exceed that mark.
R
RCush13
At this point I think you have to start to name Bennett
Right after K and Williams. He took an awful uva program and has a .700 career winning percentage in conference. That’s an insane mark especially with how good the league was from 2010-2020.
2
2hhoop3
I did say......
and others so Bennett fits. I did not specifically list him but, he has done a great job. However, I am not sure I would call it an insane mark because the league was good from 2010-2020. It was solid but, no where near as good as former times.
V
Vippie1
Charlie had a FAR easier schedule year in and year out
of any coach since entering the ACC. So yeah but.
H
Hokie`79
The Metro was decent in those days. VT played some decent ooc games too.
Uva, wva, Marquette (the year they won the natty, they beat us in Cassell), Wake Forest, to name a few that I saw play while an undergrad
Zanderhokie Zanderhokie OP
Those Metro Conference games vs Louisville and Memphis State were wars
The Metro had some really good teams back then. IIRC, South Carolina and FSU were also in that league for a while. We played some tough games. Probably not as rough as today's ACC schedule, but it was nothing to sneeze at.
NC Hoke NC Hoke
I belive Charlie’s teams would have been very competitive in the ACC
if he had been given the chance. He recruited good talent. But yes, the win percentage would probably have dropped down some.
2
2hhoop3
Moir had some good teams.......
but, competitive in the ACC is still in the .500-.600 range. They would have been competitive but, the ACC was ultra competitive top to bottom for most of that period. Also, your are correct it was Howie Shannon and Glen Combs and others. Noe, Shannon and Devoe had VT in a good trajectory and Charlie kept it going fresh off his Roanoke College success.