All Hokie, All the Time. Period. Presented by First Bank & Trust Company

jonnyhawk jonnyhawk OP
Apr 03, 2024 at 06:06 PM ET
I get it, it's not a popular position casting doubt on the new coach, true.
But I can't believe some of you folks don't see the potential in Kim Caldwell. (Does it matter for our team now, no, but I find it annoying how you dismiss her accomplishments) In review, you are talking about a coach that won Coach of the year in her league with her previous team. Won the championship of her league. Then took a Marshall team that collectively went 40-38 over the last 3 seasons. She took that team and it's existing players, and went 2-4 in the first 6 games. The remainder of her FIRST season, she then went 24-3 the rest of the season, WON the Sunbelt conference, and brought Marshall to the NCAA Dance for the first time in 27 years. You guys are sniffing glue trying to blow off coach Caldwell? Yes, she used a different scheme to accomplish it, but again, that shows creativity to overcome a lack of resources to get the job done. What she has done with her previuos team, and Marshall in one season with (someone else's players) is nothing short of astonishing. Some of you guys are either not too swift, just trying to be argumentative jerks, or talking out of your collective azzes. Now I'm done with my rant and hope for the best with Megan. I am disappointed that Whit did not take a chance on a local pick (Kim Caldwell), but hopeful that Megan is the right fit to provide a fun, successful, and stable future for VT women's basketball. Go Hokies. ** Edited by jonnyhawk at 4/3/2024, 6:31:19 PM

51 Replies

J
j9hokie
You have good points. I guess in a year we will know for sure.
hokiepro hokiepro
Local Bojangles couldn’t afford Caldwell
They’d run out of biscuits
hokiepro hokiepro
It didn’t help perception that VT boat raced Marshall by 40+
That said, I AGREE with you that she’d have been an intriguing and fun hire for style of play. Would’ve attracted fans for sure
A
Am_fan
My 2 cents
I believe coach Duffy is a good hire with a great resume and outstanding qualifications. I just hope VT isn't a stepping stone to a head coach position at her alma mater Notre Dame.
J
j9hokie
Eventually all coaches move on
I admit, I do not understand the focus on "stepping stone" while the coach is in her first week. Not sure of the average length of stay of a coach, but wild guess is maybe 5 years +/- 3. Eventually all coaches, and players, move on. Best to just live in the present.
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jkc327
So let me see if I understand your post....
... you like Kim Caldwell? Move on man.
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delmarva hokie
I have no issue with Caldwell...
...and I think she potentially can rise up in the coaching ranks, but I don't see her going far in the coaching ranks with her version of the Grinnell system. I don't see this lasting long term at Marshall either unless she tones it down to be more like the old Loyola Marymount Hank Gathers/Bo Kimble run and gun team. The reason for the Grinnell System was the coach was coming into a perennial losing program that was having difficulty recruiting and keeping players. He didn't have the resources to put together a winning program conventionally, so he decided to not worry about winning and instead concentrate on players playing in a system where they could both have fun and get playing time. It became somewhat successful in the sense that it created a lot of publicity for Grinnell where they would regularly score over 150 points against lesser competition but even still, the team didn't have an incredible won-loss record and better competition could slow them down. In one way I think the Grinnell System is a lot like the Giles County single-wing football teams who ran an entertaining offense that would give fits to teams and players at the high school football level because the offense was able to exploit certain things to give lesser talent a better chance to compete. You didn't see college programs or NFL teams run it because eventually everyone would figure out how to defend it and really shut it down. I think Caldwell is likely a good coach but I think she will always be tweaking her system as other teams figure it out, especially in the conference. I see her system evolving into a less frentic but still up tempo run and gun style (and I don't think her system now is anywhere near as frantic as Grinnell's). Right now though it's something that she's having success with at Marshall, I think this system would quickly get ripped apart in a league with more coaching and athletic talent like the ACC. Just my $.02. ** Edited by delmarva hokie at 4/3/2024, 9:55:56 PM ** Edited by delmarva hokie at 4/3/2024, 9:57:21 PM
P
pokiehokie83
We have a coach… time to look ahead, not back!
King of Hokies King of Hokies
I would never hire her. They play an AAU defense that is unsound against
well coached and competent players. They beat a ton of no ones, and they got freaking annihilated on the big stage against a good-but-not-great VT without its star player. It's like the football coach who never punted and onside kicked every time. That crap works a lot at the lower levels, but it doesn't fly against well coached teams. Kim Caldwell is basically a nobody in Div 1 basketball at this moment. And you somehow prefer her? That says way more about you than it does about Whit Babcock.
T
texashokie1
Why are we talking g about her?
I would be shocked if she got an interview
A
AtlanticHokie
I was not impressed at all with Kim Caldwell and Marshall basketball
It seems to me that they try to see how quickly they can get to 5 fouls in a quarter and place the opposing team in the bonus. They play totally out of sorts with no continuity or consistency. I am not a fan at all.
Bon Air Hokie Bon Air Hokie
Appreciate your passion and points but it's irrelevant now.
DGHOKIE DGHOKIE
Get a room
B
bluegill
Maybe next time you can be a one person search committee. Whit had other
People involved in the search, but you can do it by yourself!
jonnyhawk jonnyhawk OP
I would certainly consider the invite into the discussion if Whit insists.
H
HokieATC
Is she your sister, cousin or something? Seems like an odd obsession.
R
Rock Haven Hokie
Kim has a good resume and I have only seen one game, but she looked like
a loose cannon on the sidelines.
jackofalltrades jackofalltrades
"Local" in what way?
jonnyhawk jonnyhawk OP
Well, not exaclty local, but closer to home than most P5 schools.
And relatively close to her home state. Based on her previous job history, she seems to like this part of the country.
jackofalltrades jackofalltrades
Dude, you flushed the mouse on that one.
TomTurkey TomTurkey
Talk to the hand, uh, Whit
H
HokieHaz
Didn't beat that dead horse enough in your last post?
You had to add another one. Let it go, that horse left the paddock.
jonnyhawk jonnyhawk OP
It twitched a little, so I had to kill it a little more.
GCHokieof91 GCHokieof91
The style of play is a gimmick
S
seacain
^^^YAWN^^^.
M
mghokie
Her style of play may work in her current conference, but it would
result in an 0-18 record in the ACC. Remember, we beat them by 40+ without Liz Kitley and with a coach going out the door.
jackofalltrades jackofalltrades
"These cornball antics may play in the sticks, but this is Capitol City!"
** Edited by jackofalltrades at 4/3/2024, 7:04:23 PM
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NokieHokie
Nailed it!
VTHokie2000 VTHokie2000
A couple questions jump out at me after reading your post.
1. Why do you think Babcock did not interview Caldwell? 2. If Babcock did interview Caldwell, then why do you think either he didn't like her responses or they couldn't agree on the terms? 3. If Babcock did not interview her, then why do you think it is possible she wasn't interested in the VT job for whatever reason(s)?
jonnyhawk jonnyhawk OP
Valid questions, honestly, I feel like it had more to do with Men's ball.
I think the fact that Mens BBall is now struggling and not making tournaments once again, Whit wanted to pick the "Safe choice", but in doing so, I think we lost out on a true diamond that would have been a perfect fit for VT. Cheers!
VTHokie2000 VTHokie2000
You may be right that Babcock wanted to go the "safe route" for whatever
reason(s). I can't say if I agree or disagree with his thinking/strategy because I have no clue whatever was going on behind the scenes or in his mind. The lack of knowledge and detail regarding every step or everything that transpired that led up to today's announcement is what influenced those questions coming to my mind. Unfortunately, it is probably unlikely that additional information will surface so fans can answer those questions. The only way fans will know the answers is if Babcock is willing to publicly answer them.
1977hokie 1977hokie
Poppie was the safe choice
VTHokie2000 VTHokie2000
Poppie was a safe choice, but he may not have been the only one. At least
I think often there are a couple safe choices available to most ADs looking to hire a new coach.
jonnyhawk jonnyhawk OP
I am cool with Megan, I just will wonder for a while if it was best for VT
VTHokie2000 VTHokie2000
Unfortunately, you may never know the answer to that question because VT
decided to not go down that path. I see it as being no different than coming to a fork in the road. Do I choose the left fork or right fork? If I choose the left fork, then I will never what would have happened if I had chosen the right fork. Even if I decide to backtrack and pick the other path, the circumstances (i.e. the various dimensions) will have still changed because time has still passed and I will never be able to recover it. Even if time travel was possible and I could go back in time, then it is very likely that I would still end up on a different path because some detail, even a minute one, will have still deviated at some level.
jonnyhawk jonnyhawk OP
This is true, but while time travel is impossible, you could derive a....
relatively high probability of the orginal outcome by simply watching each coach, Kim and Megan, and using adjustments for environments, and basing this probability on the quality of their individual future performances. For Example, if Megan is still here in 4 years, and we not been to the NCAA dance under her watch, and Kim gets hired by an SEC school after making it to the Sweet 16 next season at Marshall, and then takes the new SEC school to the Elite 8 and Final 4 in years 2, 3, and 4, I think I will be able to safely say, that there was a high probability that we picked the wrong coach. All this without time travel, although they are probably moving toward that capability with scientific break-throughs provided by the reverse engineering of alien technology. One can only hope. ** Edited by jonnyhawk at 4/3/2024, 6:59:05 PM
VTHokie2000 VTHokie2000
It is possible your assumption about being able to derive a high
probability is unknowingly flawed because you (or anyone in general) are unknowingly doing an apples to oranges comparison. I say that because cellar dwelling SEC team could (in theory) have more resources available to its employees than VT has available to its employees. I am not just talking about money, but facilities, exposure, support staff, NIL deals, and a variety of other things/factors. It is possible that the little things have just as much impact as the big things over a period of time, but they are not as noticeable to people because it takes a combination of 100 or 1,000 (example purposes only) before people "see" them. Now if VT is truly on par (aka in the same ballpark) with said SEC team, then I would be more likely to agree with you because your comparison would be an apples to apples one or oranges to oranges one. Given all the changes that has taken place in college athletics since SCOTUS ruled in favor of the University of Oklahoma (and Georgia) back in the early 1980s, there may be enough differences between the schools that people truly can't do an apples to apples comparison between 2 schools from the same conference. ** Edited by VTHokie2000 at 4/3/2024, 7:13:19 PM
jonnyhawk jonnyhawk OP
I see your point, but I would argue that with reasonable variable usage to
account for both measureable and limited unknown differences, one could compare the two scenarios in a way that could still achieve a probability high enough to deduce a solid theory, based solely on data analysis. Good day fellow Hokie. ** Edited by jonnyhawk at 4/3/2024, 7:22:24 PM
VTHokie2000 VTHokie2000
I agree it is possible. The person might have to approach it the "right
way" to minimize the impact "research bias" has on the comparison so the results remain statistically sound. I learned a valuable lesson on that subject when I took a political science research class, psychology research class, and sociology research class at VT. There were a few times I thought I was approaching the research assignment the "right way" and I didn't discover until near the end that part or all of my approach had been wrong for different reasons. ** Edited by VTHokie2000 at 4/3/2024, 7:40:55 PM
jonnyhawk jonnyhawk OP
Research bias, I think that's a battle we are all fighting in the age of
Mis-information!! Cheers!
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NokieHokie
We will never know. That is a counterfactual that can't be proven.
Newt Newt
I choose to deal in the actual.
Today. Ask me tomorrow how that's going.
UEMcGill UEMcGill
In the ACC, we don't need a coach with potential. We need one with relevant
experience. And, we got just that.
jonnyhawk jonnyhawk OP
Caldwell had 10+ yrs coaching, 2 championships,and 1 National coach of Year
I guess that is not experience.
Hokies23 Hokies23
not in a major conference, no, it isn't. funny how you want to note
argumentative people, yet you had to double down, just to argue.
jonnyhawk jonnyhawk OP
Not wanting to argue honestly, just surprised by reactions to Caldwell.
Everything she has done so far has been amazing. Add that this is her home, she knows how to recruit the area, and she would be very cheap to get....... I thought her hire would give VT a chance to compete in this nearly impossible landscape, and stick around.
BlackwaterHokie BlackwaterHokie
You don’t want to argue but you’ve brought this up again…
..and accused the people who disagreed with you the first time of “sniffing glue”, of being “argumentative jerks”, and “talking out their azzes.” Okay.
jonnyhawk jonnyhawk OP
Well, I did say "Some of you". Of course I was not referring to you.
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NokieHokie
1) She's from WV. This is not her home. 2) Can we finally give up on the
false idea that this home for coaches is even a thing?
jonnyhawk jonnyhawk OP
Yeah, you are probably right, but long term potential is better for those
that are already working close to home, and we are pretty damn close to WV.
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NokieHokie
No it's not. That's made fan BS. Kenny was closer...