What does Notre Dame really want?
“Permanent damage” from the ND AD is pretty strong language. Sure, emotions were high, but that wording felt calculated.
So what’s the actual goal? I see three main possibilities:
1. Laying groundwork to leave the ACC
This is what the realignment fans are praying for. I don’t buy it though. ND can’t get a better deal outside the ACC unless they go full Big Ten, and that’s not happening anytime soon.
2. Throwing red meat to the fanbase
A lot of Domers hate the ACC arrangement (we’ve got one on this board) Maybe the AD just had to say something loud to calm the natives.
3. Pressuring the ACC for concessions
ND fans hated playing a “weak” ACC schedule. There were reports that as a part of ACC / ESPN agreement, ND would play more FSU/Clemson/Miami games. Instead, ND set up its own private series with Clemson, and the ACC refused to count it toward the required five-game rotation.
ND also keeps playing Stanford, so they’re already looking at six or seven ACC games some years. With the league moving to a 9-game schedule and no details released yet, I’d bet there’s a ton of closed-door negotiating going on. ND is probably turning up the heat to get more favorable scheduling terms (and maybe other perks).
Personally I think #3 is most likely.
edit: reports about ND playing more FSU/Clemson/Miami games. (the original wording was the ACC promised more games)
** Edited by RandomAsianGuy at 12/9/2025, 7:30:04 AM
117 Replies
7mo
Notre Dame has been planning an exit for at least a year. It is no coincidence that its AD is a former NBC executive. The bull**** blame game is just a weak effort to develop talking points in buyout negotiations. It is what it is. You would hope Notre Dame would have more integrity. But you would hope wrong.
(In response to this post by RandomAsianGuy)
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2hhoop3
7mo
some of their fans are demonstrating who they are and what they have always been. In some ways it is reminiscent of an old Andy Griffith episode where the kid threw a tantrum because his bike got impounded. It is entertaining and sad at the same time.
(In response to this post by Tailgate Guru)
7mo
Freeman. Most ND folks I've met over the years have been really good people. But the AD, and many of their fans are acting like spoiled brats.
(In response to this post by 2hhoop3)
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2hhoop3
7mo
and it is why I said SOME NOT ALL of their fans. We have examples of both sides of that coin just on this board. Just to be clear, a shout out to @TerryD who I have debated and disagreed with on this board numerous times. During this latest situation I believe he has been measured, in control of his emotions in an admittedly difficult situation and matter of fact in his responses. Kudos to him.
(In response to this post by reestuart)
7mo
Miami
Michigan
Stanford
Navy
Indiana
Clemson
Georgia
Florida State
Alabama
LSU
Ohio State
USC
4 ACC teams
4 Big 10 teams
3 SEC teams
1 AAC team (Navy)
This would be great for college football and great for Notre Dame.
(In response to this post by RandomAsianGuy)
7mo
Notre Dame's ceiling with a schedule like that is 7-5.
(In response to this post by OrlandoHokie)
7mo
... he'll give away the store.
(In response to this post by RandomAsianGuy)
7mo
I agree that the wording seemed calculated, but I'm not sure of the end game.
Link:
Sportswire
(In response to this post by RandomAsianGuy)
7mo
(In response to this post by VTChip)
7mo
That seems to be a very deliberate choice of words.
(In response to this post by RJHokie)
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RJHokie
7mo
That appears to me like throwing out a “buzz word/phrase” to grab attention.
(In response to this post by VTChip)
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saret
7mo
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saret
7mo
Material breach would mean he would have to describe what condition of the contract/agreement was breached. He probably can't, because nothing was breached.
(In response to this post by Baltimore_Hokie)
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saret
7mo
the way out."
(In response to this post by VTChip)
7mo
And this has been brewing for awhile.
(In response to this post by RandomAsianGuy)
7mo
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
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Stech
7mo
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EDGEMAN
7mo
Guess that's par for the course for ND. When you see a bridge, burn it!
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
7mo
Please answer.
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
7mo
I used to respect Notre Dame. Got tired of your crying.
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
7mo
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
7mo
Have fun in WV, directional Florida, Texas, Cincinnati
Instead of visiting three of the law schools ranked above ND....
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
7mo
Any sort of affiliation with the Big 12 has never and will never been a considered option for ND.
(In response to this post by RTFC)
7mo
play ND, but with today's longer conference schedules, ND does need some long term partners to ensure they have quality games in October/November.
(In response to this post by Baltimore_Hokie)
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Truthahn
7mo
That's some good thinkin'.
(In response to this post by Baltimore_Hokie)
7mo
those circumstances.
(In response to this post by Truthahn)
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SMU Pony
7mo
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
7mo
Material breach by some of the people I have talked too. FOIA requests would be brutal I imagine.
But agreed, we hope to be out soon.
** Edited by goldendomer at 12/8/2025, 8:38:24 PM
(In response to this post by SMU Pony)
7mo
Stanford
UVa
Duke
UNC
Cal
3 of the 5 are historic ACC schools, not a recently joined member.
But, ok, you have one of the best in the country. Your problem is the conference has 5 member schools whose law schools are ranked HIGHER.
ND can’t go away soon enough. We complain about ND ruining the conference? Hell, they’re ruining all of college football.
** Edited by HokieNeal at 12/9/2025, 10:56:43 AM
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
7mo
They'll be gone in 5 years or less.
(In response to this post by HokieNeal)
7mo
I clearly state that Cal and Stanford weren’t historic ACC members.
** Edited by HokieNeal at 12/9/2025, 12:33:25 PM
(In response to this post by Baltimore_Hokie)
7mo
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7mo
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
7mo
(In response to this post by reestuart)
7mo
unless there's something crazy nobody knows about.
(In response to this post by Tailgate Guru)
7mo
when, not just one, but about 20% of the ACC schools have a law school/program ranked BETTER than ND is all we need to know about your knowledge of what is taking place on the legal front.
In any endeavor one of the first things you should do is analyze your competition - you obviously didn't think to do that before going down that road.
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
7mo
The top 1/3 of any Duke and UVA law graduating class leaves and immediately goes to work at giant international white shoe firms in Manhattan. None of them give a **** about college football conference affiliation. Are we under the impression here that the schools have their law students managing their athletic department's litigation interests?
(In response to this post by RTFC)
7mo
of the ND poster that brought up the "one of the best law school arguments" without realizing the competition. Top lawyers - from any good law school - aren't likely worried about college football.
(In response to this post by Baltimore_Hokie)
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RJHokie
7mo
But the UNC group neutered the NCAA 😁!
(In response to this post by Baltimore_Hokie)
7mo
As a private institution, Notre Dame can hide its secrets and shenanigans. In litigation, it’s all fair game and can become very public.
They probably don’t teach that at Notre Dame law school.
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
7mo
Just wondering.
And good riddance.
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
7mo
...to troll them going forward. Maybe Marquette is more your speed.
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
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RJHokie
7mo
Might just be a bs legalese piece……
(In response to this post by Atlee Hokie)
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RJHokie
7mo
Link:
Law School Ranking
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
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saret
7mo
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7mo
You are not good at this.
Public comments about a member school, that are factual (head to head duh) is not disparagement. I went to a big ten and an ACC law school myself and even I know that ...
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
7mo
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2hhoop3
7mo
"goldendumber". He is clearly emotional and obviously not thinking clearly as his posts of the last two days clearly show.
(In response to this post by SpeakToDamien)
7mo
y
(In response to this post by 2hhoop3)
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saret
7mo
of their own making.
(In response to this post by 2hhoop3)
7mo
I'm curious if ND has figured out an exit path that FSU and Clemson were unable to find or use.
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
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SMU Pony
7mo
(In response to this post by HokieAl)
7mo
the settlement, and the exit fees of FSU and all other football members - but as stated many times on this board, and by Phillips TODAY, the ACC has 17 football members. While I have no way of knowing what the contract says, I know better than to assume anything, as you just did.
(In response to this post by SMU Pony)
7mo
And that's tomorrow, or in 3-4 years, when it becomes ~75 mil. I was going to grit my teeth and reply to him to say that, but I saw you already had, and I don't like to lower my own inherent dignity by replying to SMU posters on this board, so I avoid it whenever possible. So, thanks for that.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
7mo
is much different than the 17 football member ACC.
Not a chance it's the same amount as FSO or VT for that matter. (opinion)
(In response to this post by Baltimore_Hokie)
7mo
Which means ND could be gone tomorrow for $55 million. They could come up with that amount in ~10 minutes.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
7mo
need to reassess their position. Havin ND games is one of the few things that sets the ACC apart from the B12. Both conferences have their strengths and weaknesses. The brands in the league is about the only strength that the B12 doesn't match.
Those that WANT ND to leave the conference need to have their collective heads examined.
(In response to this post by Baltimore_Hokie)
7mo
much anyone that reasonable assesses the current state of things (except the SMU, Boston College, and Wake Forest fans) know that and will acknowledge it. ND or no ND, the ACC is run by morons, it's a sinking ship, it has been for several years now, and once that exit fee drops below $100m, the implosion will happen almost immediately.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
7mo
High School being the Fighting Irish in Indy, The ACC AND old Big East schools are lucky to be associated with the Irish. Except for the occasional game against Clemson, FSO, and the history with Miami, the ACC has been nothing but a ball and chain around the Irish's neck.
ND has a better chance to get into the expanded playoffs without the ACC schedule.
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
7mo
this benevolent and altruistic org and that the ACC is lucky to have been a benefactor of ND’s charity. It seems you have forgotten that fans of ACC institutions are used to dealing with Notre Dame and have been putting up with their bull**** for years.
For some reason you think being a Big 12 fan qualifies you as an authority figure on the ACC’s relationship with the Irish. It doesn’t FYI.
Perhaps all the Notre Dame glazing you’ve done will pay off and you’ll get to experience the joys of being (partially) in the same conference as them There’s nothing I want more for you!
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
7mo
That school has always been very strategic. They know that complaining in public today doesn't get them anything. And calling out the ACC is especially abnormal. But it does set the stage for future actions.
Football scheduling can absolutely be changed and that can happen fairly quickly if the media companies assist with incentives to both sides.
What gets interesting is the ACC grant of rights for all the other ND sports. Will ND try to break that GOR and move their athletic home? Or is this damaged relationship limited to football where ND only has a scheduling agreement? Because if they can break the GOR, then the ACC will break up as others take advantage.
I think ND has multiple plans ready for their future. And this playoff snub (in favor of Alabama), gives them an excuse to put some pressure on the ACC and move some plans forward. And the ACC will cave because they are in a very very very weak position right now.
(In response to this post by RandomAsianGuy)
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daveinop
7mo
to survive, i.e., joining in football, so it has nothing to gain by giving in to ND for anything. What is ND going to do to make the current situation worse?
(In response to this post by HokieAl)
7mo
going to make anyone in the ACC happier with their membership status?
(In response to this post by daveinop)
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daveinop
7mo
ND would like it to be on the table; that's why they are threatening to take their ball and go home. But they won't because it's the best deal they can get.
(In response to this post by Baltimore_Hokie)
7mo
No ACC school is going to want to give up future games against ND. And they know that BIG, SEC, and even B12 teams would be more than happy to take some of those ND games from the ACC.
There is still plenty of school level revenue at risk here. ND will never have to worry about filling their schedule, so they have all the leverage. The ACC can try to take a strong position, but ND will call that bluff every time.
(In response to this post by daveinop)
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daveinop
7mo
so who cares if ND walks. I'd call...if there is a better deal for ND somewhere else, they'd have already taken it.
They haven't been able to move the needle in their scheduling negotiations up to now, so now they are offended when the ACC pushes one of it's own; AND the issue is already resolved? This is laughable.
(In response to this post by HokieAl)
7mo
but only if all of those games can be scheduled before October.
With the conferences going to 8-9 conference games - there aren't enough quality teams available that aren't prescheduled for in conference games starting in October.
Who is ND going to play mid October thru November? You might can work some one offs with off weeks, swapping, etc - but just because teams may want to play ND for the PR doesn't make it logistically possible. And if quality teams do want to play OOC in the middle of conference season - they don't want ND - they schedule ala "Cupcake Saturday" in the SEC when the big teams schedule a cupcake right before a big game - often their rival. Or they schedule an open week.
ND fans are talking about this scheduling issue on their boards.
(In response to this post by HokieAl)
7mo
As an independent, ND would only get G5 games at home with all the good games against FBS teams would be away. That might force ND to join a conference?
(In response to this post by RTFC)
7mo
ND does have a problem scheduling good teams at end of season due to conference games - unless they have a long term scheduling agreement.
(In response to this post by laphroaig)
7mo
Away games to P4 teams can be more profitable for G5 and FCS teams but VT isn't in that category. Let ND schedule their own damn home games, let them play ACC games away.
(In response to this post by RTFC)
7mo
I don't care if it's Alabama or Ohio State. Nobody is telling ND to kick sand if they come knocking about a home-home or a 1-off neutral site game.
(In response to this post by RTFC)
7mo
agreement with the ACC that includes the likes of playing L'ville, Wake and Syracuse?
They needed a place for non revs AND long term football scheduling with P4 level teams since bigger conferences and more conference games started taking up end of season slots.
"any time they're available to do so" is key.
Will almost every team try to get one offs and home/home with ND? Sure, it is just much more difficult during the conference season.
Therefore, it helps ND immensely to have long term deals to ensure they can completely fill out the October/November schedule every year. Also, if the current ACC deal didn't include all the ACC schools, do you think conference members are going to listen when other conference members say "Sorry you're going to have to accommodate our game schedule with ND" when filling out the Oct/Nov ACC conference schedule? - unless they also get those $ ND games down the road? Ditto other conferences.
We agree that schools want the PR/$ that comes from playing ND; and occasional home/home and one offs are doable. The list that wants to play ND is very long - just most need/want to do them in September. It isn't the want to play - it is when to play.
ND can't wait until dates for in-conference games are scheduled in the spring/summer for that year - then look for dance partners. Look at almost any P4's future schedules - the dates in September for OOC teams are set, most several years in advance. Conference opponents are set. The actual dates for the late season in conference games are typically done earlier the same year.
Currently (now likely to change) NDs combined future schedules for October/November games thru 2030 include ONE outlier game with Auburn. All other games - after September - are ACC, Navy or USC. All of these involved in long term scheduling - and why they are at the end of the season.
Discussed this with my ND friends years ago while at the last VT game at ND...they knew the problem.
(In response to this post by Baltimore_Hokie)
7mo
when it comes to the ACC relationship. The ACC needs ND much more than ND needs the ACC. Losing the scheduling agreement with ND would hasten the imminent demise of the conference. ND could leave for $55m, work things out schedule-wise one way or the other, and not lose much, if anything in the goodbye-ing.
(In response to this post by RTFC)
7mo
The SEC and B1G aren't giving them a partial membership, the Big East doesn't have football and they like the B12 opponents and locations less than the ACC - until Sunday anyway.
We'll see, but they have an end of year schedule issue without long term agreements - where or how they replace that with P4 (or the future equivalent) teams is the question.
(In response to this post by Baltimore_Hokie)
7mo
schedule ND if they left. Just ONE.
(In response to this post by HokieAl)
7mo
Lest you get yourself painted with the same brush goldendomer and his ilk are slapping themselves with these days.
I have no issues with the Big 12. In fact, I follow WVU when I am not following the Hokies. But the best thing the Big 12 has going for it is that it is a collection of mostly like-minded and like-resourced athletic programs that, mostly, neither P2 wants.
If I were you, I would buy myself a bag of popcorn, sit back to watch, and maybe hope the Irish are silly enough to want to send their basketball teams to Waco and Ames and Provo and little Manhattan.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
7mo
the B12. There is no history there, and like the ACC, the B12 isn't exactly making the big bucks and getting 5 playoff participants.
Scheduling some games with a few in the B12 in football however, makes a lot of sense. BYU, ASU, TCU, and a few others could easily be on ND's schedule. The rest of the B12? An Oklahoma State, Houston, ISU, ... etc. is no different than ND playing Wake, Duke, NCSU, and others. It just doesn't fit.
From where I'm sitting, ND should join the Catholic 7 in the Big East, and be done with it. If they want to remain independent in football, so what? It's not like their basketball team has earned the ACC a ton of tournament units.
(In response to this post by Tailgate Guru)
7mo
.... in Nov and late October. Same for B10.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
7mo
They're putting 4 and 5 SEC/Big 10 teams in the CFP every year. They will place even more SEC/Big 10 teams once the field inevitably expands to 16, 18, 20, 24, etc. Every year, folks are getting more and more conditioned to several multiple loss SEC and Big 10 programs being placed in the field, while other conferences get one or less in.
Also, if you're a mid or better SEC or Big 10 program, and you schedule Notre Dame in October or November, you're not only selling out your stadium with scalpers demanding $900 for nosebleed seats, you're also drawing 8 or 9 million TV viewers at minimum, with an attainable target of 10+ if your program has anything resembling a pulse.
The days of Alabama scheduling Central Mississippi College for Blind Women in November are coming to a close, because it no longer makes any sense from any standpoint to do so.
(In response to this post by Atlee Hokie)
7mo
But if the ACC bridge is burned then ND can black list them. Which is my point. The ACC leadership doesn't have any power because the individual ACC schools want to have ND on the schedule.
I think I'm answering your question as I think we agree. But wasn't sure based on how I read your post.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
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SMU Pony
7mo
Their recent kerfuffle with USC would suggest otherwise.
(In response to this post by HokieAl)
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Truthahn
7mo
Those teams will not be very flexible, IMO. I believe few of them will play ND late at least, leaving ND with only lower teams near the end of each season.
(In response to this post by SMU Pony)
7mo
(In response to this post by SMU Pony)
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RJHokie
7mo
The ACC, BIG, SEC and Big 12 aren’t going to have much available after September each season, particularly if they have 9 conference games.
(In response to this post by RandomAsianGuy)
H
HOO86
7mo
Trying to schedule 12 games as an independent became increasingly difficult for Jack Swarbrick especially in November. So he worked this arrangement with John Swofford to cut that down to 7 games he could schedule on his own. He believed seven was ok to schedule while having the ACC schedule the 5.
Now with the Big Ten pushing against non-conference games after September, and all of the P4 moving to 9 games it will be even tougher. ND will need an ACC type arrangement with some conference to schedule well enough to impress that CFP Committee.
(In response to this post by SMU Pony)
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HOO86
7mo
Two other ADs did. So we'll see.
(In response to this post by TerryD)
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daveinop
7mo
to try to negotiate more flexibility. I don't think the ACC needs to do anything about it.
(In response to this post by HOO86)
7mo
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Stech
7mo
laughable statement if you want to work things out. There are plausible other explanations, but I still lean towards them trying to leave with no exit fees.
** Edited by Stech at 12/8/2025, 7:31:29 PM
(In response to this post by RandomAsianGuy)
E
EDGEMAN
7mo
The ACC didn't screw ND, but ND has come out publicly blaming the ACC. That sounds like it's a prime case for punitive damages. Let's sue ND for $5B in damages, and settle for $1B.
(In response to this post by Stech)
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Stech
7mo
/went there and he worked there. I just don’t see it happening.
(In response to this post by EDGEMAN)
7mo
the ACC and ND? He has a conflict in negotiating with ND in the first place? Surprised Miami got in and ND didn't. Maybe he has some balls after all.
(In response to this post by Stech)
7mo
In the end, they aren't any different from anybody else in this business. They'd run their own grandmothers over if it meant an extra buck.
(In response to this post by Stech)
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daveinop
7mo
(In response to this post by TerryD)
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Marooned
7mo
We should want compelling TV matchups even more than they do. We should therefore NOT promise more games with specific teams that may have brand recognition. We should instead reward on the field success and commitment to success. We should be showcasing programs that need and deserve more exposure than they’re getting.
Why would ND or their fans complain about that? They are rich enough and recognized well enough to be competitive no matter what the business model looks like. They should want to play against the ACC’s best teams every year - shouldn’t they? 🤔
(In response to this post by Gobbler-100)