In order, give me your top 5 reasons a P2 league should take VT. Then show
Me where VT places among those out of the P2 in each reason. Example: you pick 1 as football relevance. Where does VT stand among the out of P2 schools in that list. Or TV viewers, where is VT on that list?
70 Replies
J
jdkhokie
2y
front of the line.
2. We were already asked to join the SEC and said yea maybe but I am currently deeply in love with the ACC. Call me later.
3. UVA? No seriously, UVA?
4. Wordle is becoming the rage in the Big 10 and the SEC fans know a lot of 4 letters words.
5. We dispose of our couches at the landfill like most civilized people.
(In response to this post by cricket77)
I
INSIDE99
2y
Whatever exit cost FSU/Clemson has to pay to leave will establish the cost for every ACC member going forward.
The current lawsuits are mainly about establishing that cost.
Any talk of ACC teams bolting for the Big XII or going to another P2...if the established cost to get out prior to the ESPN agreement ending is $200 million, that's what it is barring a vote to dissolve the ACC. These are the reasons CalFord/SMU (and any future ACC additions) were added. Those schools bring no revenue, only small market votes to counter the Mag 7.
** Edited by INSIDE99 at 6/2/2024, 11:02:41 PM
(In response to this post by cricket77)
V
VTCALS72
2y
That limits who has the financial backing to walk away. If the exit cost is say $400 mil and only Clemson, FSU, UNC and VA are given full payout shares to a P2, who else could pay? Especially if the partial payout is permanent.
As things change, new potential outcomes appear. For the first time I am wondering if ESPN will work a settlement to get such a high exit fee, no one but Clemson, FSU, UNC. UVA and maybe Miami could leave. Then FOX/ESPN make a deal that the Big get FSU but leave Miami alone to be what the media would see as an anchor to the new mid level ACC.
Think about that, Miami, VT, NCSU, GT, Lville could be the core of a good mid level conference. I think Pitt, Cuse can be competitive and all of Duke, Wake and even BC have had some really competitive seasons as well. That would be the 10 member conference.
Then they would have the Big 12 with WVU, UCF, KU, KSU, ISU, Ok St, TCU, TT, Houston and add SMU.
That would move the "new PAC to WSU, OSU, AZ, AZ St Colorado, Utah, BYU, Stanford, Cal and add one more.
(In response to this post by INSIDE99)
We need the Big 10 to add UVA, give the SEC a reason to respond
(In response to this post by cricket77)
I could also see it going the other way around.
UVa to SEC, VT to B1G.
** Edited by Maroon Baboon at 6/3/2024, 1:30:06 AM
(In response to this post by VaTechHokiesACC)
V
VTCALS72
2y
I do think that VT and NCSU, whether Big or SEC can "win" the VA/NC market area in FB and WBB. MBB is owned by UVA and UNC.
(In response to this post by Maroon Baboon)
T
TDVick
2y
coordinated horse-trading btw the SEC and B10. I really think that basketball will be huge once the NCAA loses March Madness. I really think that UNC and Duke benefit tremendously by being in the same basketball conference. It makes the regular season much more relevant. It wouldn't surprise me if the SEC tried to grab UNC, Duke and Kansas to go with Kentucky and become the basketball juggernaut. It really amazes me that people assume that Duke won't get a spot.
The economics might be better if UVA and VT are split. I wonder if there is a constituency in the B10 that wants to block VT, such as MD, PSU and OHST. I just wonder if UNC can muscle UVA into the SEC with them at our expense. I hope not.
(In response to this post by Maroon Baboon)
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VTCALS72
2y
Maybe this UNC/UVA thing is just a ruse by the SEC to try and block the Big from getting Clemson and FSU. I think everyone knows the Big would prefer UVA and or UNC to Clemson. So in the end, the SEC is setting up a sitting down and trading between the media partners and P2. The SEC fights for UNC and UVA but reluctantly gives them up to keep FSU and Clemson then they add VT and NCSU creating full football control over all of the southeast from DMV downward. And when a conference establishes football control it is much easier to grow the MBB.
(In response to this post by TDVick)
Perhaps. But somebody better let FSU in on the ruse.
What you also need to consider is the desires of individual schools. I can't say this for certain, but I think many in power at FSU want to go to the Big Ten for a number of reasons that I won't bother with at this point.
And WRT you and the post of @TDVick above, I think if FSU and B1G are a thing, then the B1G should also want to take Clemson. They should want football cachet in the South. I think VT would be a nice addition too as I see them as the #3 football option out of the ACC.
If there is horse trading going on as some are suggesting, then this would make a ton of sense. SEC gets UNC and UVa, but while the SEC relinquished geological claims on FSU and Clemson while both conferences decide what to do over NC State and VT.
If BB is going to be big in the next wave of expansion, if SEC gets UNC, Duke, NC State and UVa that would be huge for BB. Throw KU in there somehow, and it is massive.
If the B1G gets FSU, Clemson and VT, (and perhaps Miami) that is massive for football in the South. Win-win.
(In response to this post by VTCALS72)
V
VTCALS72
2y
then with all the private equity and everything else, it is not enough to beat ESPN if they really don't want the Big in Fla. That is the question, So if ESPN offers to dictate to the ACC a say $250 mil total settlement IF FSU goes to the SEC and stands firm in support of a $500 mil settlement if FSU will only go to the Big.
I do believe the SEC does not want the Big 10 in the southeast and is not going to let that happen without at least a back room fight.
As far as what happens to NCSu and VT, then assuming the state pols are resolute that no one goes unless they both go, then it is a no brainer for the SEC to keep Clemson and FSU letting the Big take UVA and UNC which leaves Vt and NCSU for the SEC and as I said, to completely sew up the whole area.
(In response to this post by Maroon Baboon)
2y
Now The B1G is going to know about the ruse. And it will be your fault.
(In response to this post by VTCALS72)
UVA is just a better fit for the Big 10 while VT is more SEC
But I wouldn't argue either way.
(In response to this post by Maroon Baboon)
2y
Pro side:
New state for media partners in either conference
Cultural fit works for either of the P2, but I’d guess 60% fit with SEC and 40% fit with BIG (across both athletics and academics)
Good schools size
Good fan support
Demonstrating willingness to spend money on sports and invest in the athletics side
Location fits either of the P2 footprints
Con side:
VT is on the border between the P2 so no clear direction for which way to go
VT is solid in a lot of stuff but still behind others who are trying to get into the P2
VT wants to win in football, which can be perceived as a threat to the established brands that the media loves
VT is not near a major metro area
VT as a national brand is in the past and currently weak
(In response to this post by cricket77)
2y
Otherwise, there is no reason to seek out VT.
(In response to this post by cricket77)
V
VPI 1924
2y
Honey don’t break my heart
(In response to this post by cricket77)
V
VTCALS72
2y
current performance is way less a factor than maybe it should be. After all UVA appears to be desired.
(In response to this post by VPI 1924)
O
obguthr
2y
but losing to Vandy would certainly extinguish any hopes of getting an invite.And you know what they say about any given Saturday
(In response to this post by VPI 1924)
We’d have to beat Vandy by 70 to get SEC attention
(In response to this post by VPI 1924)
2y
Link:
Clicky
(In response to this post by cricket77)
2y
The SEC and BIG are expanding on a different level. The ACC is just surviving and catering to academic partnerships.
(In response to this post by Maroon Unit)
2y
Clemson and fsu. Gotta see why they want out.
(In response to this post by Maroon Unit)
M
MVIII
2y
Clemson, FSU, Miami and VT
WV at 29 is next.
Based on that list, one wonders if those top 4 could go to the SEC and UVA and Carolina schools with ND to the Big Ten? Would Florida allow that to happen....can they stop it?
I don't count ND either, they can go anywhere they want to go.
(In response to this post by cricket77)
2
2hhoop3
2y
not on that list are from the ACC. In addition to Clemson and FSU the other two would be Miami and VT. The metrics chosen obviously affect the rankings.
(In response to this post by cricket77)
L
lawhokie
2y
But maybe someone will pick up the torch for me. My post looked at these factors:
VT’s rank in annual R&D funding
The size of Virginia’s population
The relative wealth of Virginians (very high)
The size of VT’s student body
Fan enthusiasm for football
A comparison of those numbers with state universities in states like SC, MS, …
For those reasons, I think and hope our best option is an SEC invitation, mainly because the SEC might just want a DC presence, whereas Maryland want VT to die on the vine.
** Edited by lawhokie at 6/2/2024, 10:59:06 AM
(In response to this post by cricket77)
V
VPI 1924
2y
Our athletic dept. has no personality and no salesmanship. They can’t spell the word - promotion. In short it’s a funeral parlor. That and that alone is why we can’t get out of our own way.
(In response to this post by lawhokie)
V
VTCALS72
2y
the vest but the idea that all it takes is a rah rah type VT "salesman" is not correct. Remember the first thing each of the teams in the Big or SEC look at is the direct impact on them. UNC and Miami knew and still knows that VT in the same conference damages them. And a rah rah type presentation is not going to move them.
I think it is time that persons holding the views of the post I am responding to, take a second look. Just recently we were in a coaching search and lots of posters on here said Whit was doing nothing because if he was, we would know. I responded that because Whit played it so close, none of us had any idea. In about 5 days from that exchange, CMD was announced.
(In response to this post by VPI 1924)
V
VPI 1924
2y
In short not many folks west of the Appalachian Mountains has ever heard of VaTech football except for the Big12 guy. What’s a Hokie?? Do we have a basketball team? We have no name recognition nationally!!!! Whose fault is that.
(In response to this post by VTCALS72)
2y
darling...
(In response to this post by VPI 1924)
2y
picture for decades. Hopefully, Pry and Company will help us slip back in that distant picture, someday in the future !
(In response to this post by NokieHokie)
2y
(In response to this post by NokieHokie)
I have lived in CA on and off for 37 years. VT is a well known brand here
(In response to this post by VPI 1924)
V
VPI 1924
2y
a Va Tech banner hanging in any building in California.
(In response to this post by CrystalCoveHokie)
Banners on buildings really aren’t a big thing here….
In my neighborhood I can’t say that I’ve ever seen any flag/banner on any home. I’ve seen more VT bling than FSU bling if that matters. We have kids from local high school going to VT. When I bring up VT, I’ve never had anyone be unaware of the school. I have had people ask what a “Hokie” is. We get the ACCN. We have game watching parties at bars. When I moved into my neighborhood, the first person I met was a former VT QB. Plenty of representation here.
** Edited by CrystalCoveHokie at 6/2/2024, 6:31:27 PM
(In response to this post by VPI 1924)
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VTCALS72
2y
the same thing can be said for just about every non blue blood. NCSU and GT? About the same. Lville, Pitt, Kansas, KSU, WVU, ISU, Okla. State, all about the same.
IMHO you are expecting something over the top on getting national recognition.
(In response to this post by VPI 1924)
V
VPI 1924
2y
Watched VaTech athletics for 62 years. I know of what I speak. Listen to me my child.
(In response to this post by RJHokie)
R
RJHokie
2y
You post like you live under a rock……just wondering for how long.
(In response to this post by VPI 1924)
H
hokieZ71
2y
We live in a system where, if nothing changes, those schools listed in my subject are just a few years away from receiving close to $100M a year while schools you’d actually like to watch play football - Clemson, Florida State, Miami, VT, Oklahoma State, Baylor, West Virginia, Utah, TCU, Louisville, and more - will receive a little more than half that amount.
So…Top 5 reasons are irrelevant. Maryland and Rutgers were relevant over a decade ago because they “delivered a market”. So were BC and Syracuse. And they do absolutely zero for the conference they are in.
WVU has done more to add compelling and interesting games on TV for the Big XII than any of those 4 shlock programs that “delivered a market” have ever done for their P2 conferences. I’ve never wanted to watch any of their games if it didn’t include VT. Over a decade…zero Maryland games. Zero BC games, etc… They are total zeroes.
Now, in this new age of the P2, none of them actually deliver a market that will matter moving forward, because it’s all going to be about generating single game eyeballs and ratings and streaming subscribers and there are so many “P2 Programs” that will absolutely NOT deliver that. Who can wait to turn on that Maryland vs Purdue game! Minnesota - Rutgers! Can’t wait! I’ve never gotten excited about Vanderbilt-Arkansas or Mississippi St vs Kentucky. Or Missouri vs Ole Miss. Who gives a crap?
You know the most exciting non-VT game without a Top 10 power school that I actually wanted to watch the last couple of years? WVU-Pitt in 2022. Honestly, that was pretty fun to watch.
You know, VT wasn’t even going to get added to the ACC, because we didn’t deliver a market to the ACC. Why should we be so high on our chances this go round? It could just as easily be said that VT doesn’t deliver the DC market and that the state of VA isn’t that important to the P2. Who cares about the fact that VT football games are fun to watch when UVA football sucks worse than basically anybody but they are buddies with UNC? That sure seems to matter…
(In response to this post by cricket77)
L
lawhokie
2y
They thought the small, elite, academically driven athletic conference model would thrive for decades. They were wrong. One more example of people who are experts in one field (education) thinking they are experts at everything (e.g. marketing, media, and business associations). A bunch of educated idiots.
If the ACC had invited Pitt, WVU, VT, and Miami after the 2002 season, told Wake and Duke to walk away from football and the associated revenue share, and given Notre Dame whatever deal they wanted, the ACC would be thriving even today. FWIW those four BE schools finished the 2002 football season with a combined record of 40-13.
UNC and the elites blew it in 2003 and now they want out. Fitting, I suppose.
** Edited by lawhokie at 6/2/2024, 10:52:05 AM
** Edited by lawhokie at 6/2/2024, 10:53:57 AM
(In response to this post by hokieZ71)
V
VTCALS72
2y
Instead I would say their business acumen was fine but the way they wanted to achieve is was essentially to make teams in the ACC better rather than add better teams to the conference. Miami wanted BC over VT because, well VT beat them too much in the BE. UNC wanted BC because BC did not create another school on equal footing that could not only beat them on the field but also take recruits from 757.
(In response to this post by lawhokie)
L
lawhokie
2y
And in this case it clearly was, then your plan is flawed and you lack business acumen. And I didn’t mention that the ACC was betting on media markets, rather than big stadiums and loyal fans. Another flaw in the plan.
** Edited by lawhokie at 6/2/2024, 5:10:56 PM
** Edited by lawhokie at 6/2/2024, 5:12:58 PM
** Edited by lawhokie at 6/2/2024, 5:13:57 PM
(In response to this post by VTCALS72)
V
VTCALS72
2y
above average. You are assigning grades based on A or F. Again, a big part was to make UNC and several others better no so much the league as a whole. Which does come back to the one thing I think we can agree, UNC has run things to their benefit and if it came down to a choice between benefitting the league or UNC, it usually went UNC's way. But that is where the power was.
(In response to this post by lawhokie)
2y
Everyone being Miami, BC, Syracuse and VT. In fact their constant no vote along with Duke's gave UVA veto power. Until VT was included, UVA voted no to Miami and anyone Miami wanted (read BC & Syracuse).
Swofford lusted after Miami, to the point he let Miami name who they wanted to join Miami in the ACC. Swofford so lusted after Miami, he eventually gave in to UVA's demand that VT be included.
(In response to this post by VTCALS72)
V
VTCALS72
2y
Only after Vt was not a slam dunk that UNC and Duke took their cookies and went home.
(In response to this post by Atlee Hokie)
2y
... question to consider expansion. Then those 2 voted no on any and all proposed additions. Why they originally voted to consider expansion, I don't understand.
If either of them had decided to vote yes on the Miami, BC, SU threesome, we would still have been in the BE.
(In response to this post by VTCALS72)
V
VTCALS72
2y
Taking it just a step further, UNC was all in on Miami, BC and Cuse in the initial talks etc. But then the ACC was given a real black eye nationally for what they were doing to the BE. that and when UVA took their stand or nobody but us, UNC decided not to go along at all choosing to make a faux "righteous" stand by voting no all the way across. That was the same time that some UNC academics were horrified at the idea of VT coming into their ivy coated institutions.
(In response to this post by Atlee Hokie)
2
2hhoop3
2y
is the Carolina Way, "to seem rather than to be". Both UNC and Duke arrogantly assumed they and basketball could win out in the end. By voting yes to consider the expansion players they came across as team players and in UNC's case they didn't make their boy Swofford look like a bumbling idiot out of the gate. The figured with their 2 votes they could turn 1 of the other 7 in to an expansion killing NO. It worked until UVA, with a little outside help, recognized the power they wielded. It also worked for Swofford and the football schools as they got arguably the two best BE football programs at the time and mortally wounded their most immediate competitive threat as a conference.
** Edited by 2hhoop3 at 6/2/2024, 4:18:49 PM
(In response to this post by Atlee Hokie)
2
2hhoop3
2y
UNC and Duke were no votes out of the gate which made UVA the deciding/power vote. It was ACC basketball's last arrogant grasp at maintaining an upperhand.
(In response to this post by VTCALS72)
H
hokieZ71
2y
(In response to this post by cvillehokie92)
V
VTCALS72
2y
2- Biggest football presence in DMV with exponentially growing alums, facilities, research, programs and employees.
3- So much stuff that says VT is not up to snuff is suspect like the Neilson Ratings. There is no way to adequately use a lot of the supposed "evaluation" tools when a VT has had most of our games on Raycom and ACCN rather than "national" games. As the other example, UVA got "viewers" for their game @Tenessee, all 100,000 plus of them where only a handful were actually watching UVA. This is a mega issue as various evaluations or relevance place VT at #75 or so for Neilson but in the top 25 for others that are more of an equal evaluation.
It is not always what a team is doing at the moment or even in the past. It is what is the return under a whole new dynamic. Who would grow more, UVA with SEC backing or VT with SEC backing. What does the model of VT in the DMV market carrying the SEC backing produce? I'll give you a hint, you don't get better results when your stadium has as much of your opponents colors plus the aluminum of empty seats.
4- Two previous times, that VT was being considered for league membership, BE and ACC, VT clearly outperformed the naysayers.
(In response to this post by cricket77)
V
VPI_1998
2y
the card says Moops
(In response to this post by ombandit)
2y
1. Virginia Tech is Awesome - Rank #1
2. Virginia Tech is Awesome - Rank #1
3. Virginia Tech is Awesome - Rank #1
4. Virginia Tech is Awesome - Rank #1
5. Virginia Tech is Awesome - Rank #1
** Edited by wwhokie1 at 6/1/2024, 9:09:37 PM
** Edited by wwhokie1 at 6/1/2024, 9:12:03 PM
(In response to this post by cricket77)
2y
(In response to this post by wwhokie1)
The baseball team really missed her this season. ;)
Her absence cost us about 6 home wins vs. ACC teams.
(In response to this post by HwoodHokie)
H
hoodat
2y
(In response to this post by ancient alien 2018)