dayooper

If your idea of culture is geography, than you would be correct. 3 out if the 4 schools just added to the Big10 are highly rated research based schools. Adding UCLA and Washington gives the Big10 the top 4 research universities in the former P5. USC would rank no lower than 5th in any other conference but the Big10. You may not believe it, but that’s school culture right there. Washington fits so well in the Big10, they are a mirror image of what Michigan and Wisconsin are. These are all huge schools with giant enrollments that have very large alumni bases. They are spread out internationally. The 4 new schools are better fits than Nebraska and Rutgers and it’s not even close.

Michigan got whipped by Texas, NW lost to Duke in 2OT and Iowa lost by one to ISU. Everybody else won, but PSU/Bowling Green and Oregon/Boise ST were closer than they should have been. There was a conference game as MSU beat Maryland in a close game.

It’s what gives ESPN/ABC the game. If USC was the home team, the game would be on Fox/CBS/NBC. FYI - I think Cobb County is correct. ESPN isn’t paying the SEC that much money to put them on cable. The big games are always on other broadcast channels. They will promote the hell out of the SEC because they are paying a ton to do so. The SEC spin will be thick.

That being said, there were only 2 years in the 4 team playoff that were not in the SEC or Big10, that was Clemson twice(‘16 and ‘18). If you add any school that is currently (as of 2024) in the SEC or Big10 that has won a national championship since the beginning of the BCS, you would only gain 2 more years, FSU in ‘13 and Miami in ‘01. I can take it even further. In the past 75 years, only 15 years had teams not currently in the Big10 or SEC. That includes partial championships. Take away ND’s 6 championship years and you get 9. That’s less than 10%. Take away Clemson and FSU, who I believe will eventually get into the P2 and you get 7. Miami (‘01, ‘89 and’87), GT and Colorado (‘91), BYU (‘84), Pitt (‘76) and Syracuse (‘59) are the ones that fit into that category. My guess is Miami is having back door conversations as well. Does this mean the P2 will win more championships? No, but history has shown there are only a select few that have historically won national championships and most are currently in, or are suing their current conferences so they can get into a P2. Throw in ND who would be welcomed by either of the P2 and that list is very short. FSU did everything they had to do to even get into the playoffs and were rebuffed.

If the case is decided in their favor, they are free to leave at that time. Let’s say the cases all are ruled upon (or they come to a settlement), they are trying to say they can leave the following year.

I said I would be OK with it. They really do nothing for me, but they are more exciting than UVA. FSU would be great and I have said in the past that I personally would love VT as part of the Big10.

2 out of the 4 schools you have listed going to the Big10 have AAU status. Virginia and the newly inducted Miami. As a Big10 fan, I would be ok with this, although UVA does not excite me at all. Interestingly enough, even if you don’t want anything to do with UMD, you would still have your rivalry with Miami and UVA and I think there’s a natural rivalry there with PSU.

If they pick up the contract, they are stuck with it until 2036. Will the cable model be as valuable in 9 years?

The operating profit dropped. From sports business journal: While ESPN’s revenue rose 3% to $4.21B, operating income dropped 9% to $799M. The decline was led by a "drop in cable subscribers, and higher programming costs attributable to the College Football Playoff." ESPN advertising "rose to offset the cable subscriber decline" Will the network make money after a few years? Sure California and Texas will bring in more money, but is it sustainable for 9 more years? With ESPN going to the direct subscription model, will the ACC N still bring in enough to make the ACC worth it?

Not sure that will ever come to fruition, but I believe that’s what they want.

I believe what Clemson and FSU are trying to say is the GoR expires in 2027. They are citing this: “ESPN has the exclusive, revocable option (the “Extension Option”), but not the obligation, to extend this Agreement until [redacted] subject to the remainder of this paragraph (such extended term of July 1, 2027 to [redacted]) the “Extension Term”) by providing written notice to the conference no later than two (2) years after the launch date of the ACC-ESPN Network.” From ESPN Agreement obtained by the Florida AG. If the above is correct, than ESPN had until 2 years after the launch of the ACC Network to pick up the extension. Since the ACC Network launched August 22, 2019, ESPN has until August 22, 2021 to pick up the extension of the contract. FSU and Clemson are arguing that the the commissioner couldn’t unilaterally extend the the pickup date since it was written in the contract. They are also saying the GoR ends when the contract expires so they will be free agents as of 2027. They aren’t trying to break the GoR, they are trying to say it expires in 2027, not 2036. This isn’t my thought, it’s pulled from another board. I only visit 2 realignment boards, I swear I’m not crazy. My wife had me tested.

Take that for what it’s worth.

Have the non redacted version?

Even if FSU and Miami go to the Big10, they would still hold the Florida flagship in UF. Clemson is a different issue, but again, I’m not sure they care. UNC is the big prize and that’s where the battle will be. Maybe some horse trading for FSU? If, and it’s a huge if, TAMU is hell bent on being in a different league than Texas, maybe that’s another trade as well.

Of course there have been conversations with FSU/Clemson with the Big10/SEC/Big12, but they all have been done via 3rd party reps. IIRC, Texas and Okie leaving for the SEC was still a shock to most of the college football world. Just like USC and UCLA to the Big10 was. Everything was done back door. Even when UMD and Rutgers joined the Big10, the Big10 met with both schools in DC at different hotels so the 2 schools didn’t know who the other was. They both had been talking to the conference through intermediaries until it was go time.

Yup, we’ve talked with Clemson and FSU and let them know we want them and they should find out how to get out of their GoR, what do you think will happen? 1 - A big fat collusion and interference lawsuit on what ever conference said that. 2 - That conference has just lost all leverage in their negotiations. USC and UCLA came in full shares because they had options. Washington and Oregon came in at half shares because they had no other acceptable paths. They won’t get full shares from the media partners so they need to get the schools as cheap as possible. Will those 2 move? Probably. When? Couldn’t tell you, but this is more than a tantrum. What FSU said last summer was a tantrum. As soon as the lawsuit was filed, it became more, imho.

The Michigan- OSU game is among the most watched game every year and Fox gets first choice of games and they always choose this game first. It’s an important game to Fox. Michigan has 3 true rivalry very games and one that is played sparingly (ND). You know about OSU and MSU but there’s a rivalry with Minnesota that goes back to the early 1900’s. It’s not played on a regular basis as the other 2 are much more intense. I thin

They said they were leaving in 2025 when the new Big12 contract became in effect. It was t until USC and UCLA announced they were joining the Big10 in 2024 did they negotiate leaving a year early in 2024. I could be completely wrong on that, though.

. . . the conference is the best evidence for your point. As for in game attendance, there are many factors in that data point. Do you know why Michigan has more in game attendance than Oregon? Because Michigan Stadium holds 40,000 more spectators than Autzen stadium. Since we are talking ACC attendance, using Florida St and Clemson in your points doesn’t work either as they are both hell bent on leaving the conference. That leaves the top 25th school as the only top 25 school in either. VT has an awesome game day atmosphere as is deservedly in that ranking, but again, including schools that want out is not the best evidence. Take away FSU and Clemson and that List doesn’t look nearly as good as it does with them. Yes, the ACC is a great basketball conference, but so is the Big12. Neither has the most dominant basketball program in the country (UConn) and the Big12 is back courting them again. The top Directors Cup program in the nation (Stanford) just had to take a huge cut just to get into a conference on the other side of the country. I sincerely hope the ACC keeps a strong conference when FSU and Clemson leave. I’m not a fan of the Big12, but appreciate their ability to adapt and the foresight to outwit the PAC. ** Edited by dayooper at 7/15/2024, 11:08:45 AM

Every team that has won a natty recently had periods where they were told they were done. Michigan before Harbaugh, OSU before Tressell and Meyer, Alabama before Saban, Georgia before Smart, USC before Carroll, Oklahoma before Stoops, Clemson before Dabo. All of these schools were left for dead. FSU is in one of, if not the best talent rich states. Some might say they have a better profile than Florida. If they get the right coach, they have all the resources to win again, especially if they get in a conference that will associate them with the other football powers. Will they? Who knows but they are not a dead forever program.

Was begging for a Big10 invite before they went to the SEC. They even had the governor talking publicly about it.

Much clearer.

1. Legal fees are expensive. Either Clemson is paying a lot of money in these lawsuits or it’s being done pro bono/ at a highly reduced rate. Either way they are doing for a reason. Which leads me to . . . 2. Believe they have at least a very idea they will admitted to either the SEC or the Big10. Again, this is my speculation (all of this is speculation) but I highly doubt that Clemson or the people they have working on the case would give the money (or billable hours if it’s someone giving up their time) to leave the the ACC for the Big12, AAC, CUSA, MW, SunBelt, MAC or any other conference not named The SEC or Big10. 3. They wouldn’t risk having to pay a huge exit fee if they were leaving one of the said conferences above. These are all fine conferences, but they would lose money and recognition in the process. Sorry for my lack of clarity in my post above. My point was that with legal fees where they are someone will be getting the shaft if they don’t go to the P2. If legal fees are very reduced in Florida, South Carolina and North Carolina as compared to here in Michigan, then more power to Clemson (and people in those states). I understand that I answered more than your original question in both posts. I’m long winded, even when I type. If any of this offends you, I guess that makes me an Absolute Zero.

To just stay there? I have no clue what the legal fees are costing, but my assumption is that’s it’s not small. Legal fees are expensive and whether it’s pro bono or a reduced rate, somebody is losing time or money in this endeavor.

They are spending on legal fees, how can they stay? It would be a waste of resources if they did.

Clemson needs a spot. Since they filed their lawsuit, they probably have assurance they a spot in the Big10/SEC.

Michigan, OSU, PSU, USC and Oregon should be very desirable to A&M. Throw in playing in front of eyeballs in many different populated regions and you might see how it can work. Should they stay in the SEC? Probably, but that is a weird culture in A&M and the hate they feel toward Texas makes Michigan States hate toward Michigan look like brotherly love.

I am specifically speaking to this part; However, I am not sure they would feel the same way if the profession is a teacher, fire fighter, police officer, or someone in the military. At this point it wouldn't surprise me if there are people out there who feel people working in the public sector are currently overpaid regardless of what is required of them to perform the job. I know this to be fact, at least here in Michigan. There are those that view us educators as an enemy. I won’t get into the political aspects (it’s very political) but it’s very different than it was 25 years ago when I started teaching. I will say that where I teach, there is a ton of support for us teachers, especially those that are established and have a good reputation. There are other places that do not have any support at all.

From Heisman and Belitnikoff voter Todd Helmick. He’s a former FSU player. NETWORK HORSE TRADING ESPN will end up sublicensing more future CFP games, including some semifinal games, in exchange for a handful of financing. On the flip side, ESPN will be able to carry some B1G games, in particular on the new Venu Sports package that's about to debut. Venu is a sports streaming service joint venture between Disney/ESPN, FOX and Warner Bros. Discovery (WBD). It is scheduled to launch this fall. The capabilities include high level DVR programming for such things as pause, rewind, save, etc. for sports carried by all three partners, including TNT. This product has been called a sports television game changer for everyone including the NFL. The CBS and NBC folks are cautiously watching. The realignment legal horse trading is quite confusing to those not in the network industry because fans don't have access to the performance indicators used to generate profits, especially between multiple partners sharing content. The networks are utilizing corporeal data to determine how conferences function best for the networks. Conferences are no longer in control. The price ESPN paid for the CFP rights came in much lower than most experts anticipated. Speculation exists to where those negotiations were part of the process in exchange for FSU and other possible income producing ACC members being re-slotted for maximum gain to all Venu partners. WBD will also broadcast some of the CFP games in 2026 that will be produced by ESPN and their on-air talent. With TNT cable now in more homes (70 million) compared to ESPN this potentially provides a different demographic numbers reach for ESPN. I have mentioned in the past that for FSU to enter the B1G, don't be alarmed if ESPN is permitted to broadcast some of those games. Well apparently, here it comes. The realignment world is waiting on FSU to announce. This announcement comes before kickoff 2024. More likely any day now. The ACC/ESPN contract renegotiation is for another topic. Obviously, he’s biased, but the idea that Fox held back on the CFP is something I haven’t heard before.

The players they got from Florida were mostly small, 3 star players that were rejected by sec schools. Rich Rod recruited like he was still at WVU. Players like Nico Collin’s wanted to leave the south and did. Otherwise, those players stay in SEC land. Now Cali is a different story, but Florida, Alabama and Georgia players generally stay there. The player from Michigan going to LSU is getting quite a fair amount of money to go there. 8 figures and that’s from someone on the inside at Michigan. I just don’t see the SEC taking on someone to block another conference. Those are long term mistakes that can backfire very quickly in the money game, especially when ESPN is where it is financially. Does the Big10 even want FSU? Couldn’t tell you, but from a general student population, it does. And that’s what this is all about, putting your brand to new eyeballs while still being able to bring in as much money as possible.

Minnesota, Purdue, Indiana, Illinois, Michigan State and Rutgers are not going to go into Florida and take recruits that SEC schools want. It’s just not happening. Michigan can’t even keep one of the best in state recruits Michigan has ever had from going to LSU. Rutgers can’t keep NJ recruits in state either. Detroit, as of 2023 was the city that had the most players on NFL rosters with 19. Many of those athletes didn’t go to a Michigan or Big10 school. Sauce Gardner was a Detroit city kid and went to Cinci. I’m fairly certain that the Big10 having FSU and Clemson will not influence kids that normally would go to SEC schools to go to the Big10. Under Rich Rodriguez, Michigan hit Florida hard. They went after Pahokee High School pretty hard. He was fired shortly there after. Will they draw some players? Sure, but not a ton.

The Big10 would be their only P2 possibility. UGA had Georgia in spades and GT would be beyond redundant. Maybe the Big10 wants the market, but can they pay for themselves? If Oregon and Washington can’t, how can GT?

Something will happen, FSU and Clemson have already made that step. What that is remains to be seen.

So it can’t be a flagship. PSU is public and receives public funds. Penn does not. A flagship school is a public school that is usually the most recognizable school, has the highest amount of doctoral candidates and gets the most state funding. Michigan receives little state funding, but is the flagship of Michigan. MSU, much like VT would be the flagships for their state if UofM and UVA didn’t exist.

Blew my shoulder out in practice and decided I was done. I knew I wasn’t going pro and my body was already beat up. Had a blast but was happy when I was finished. If you are ever in Marquette during late summer, take a jump off the Black Rocks. That cool refreshing 55 degree water will wake you up!

I played ball for NMU in the ‘90’s. Currently live, teach and coach in SE Michigan, but Marquette will always be my wife and my happy place so I guess I’m more of a Yooper at heart. We get back every so often. Manistique is beautiful! Lake Michigan has some of the prettiest beaches in the world and those beaches are right up there. Nothing beats the rugged shoreline of Lake Superior for me, though.

Michigan has as much clout as OSU. PSU? Not so much.

October? Maybe. Would you pass up playing Penn State in November? OSU in November? Maybe it’s just the Northerner in me, but I would much rather play Minnesota in November than Miss State in early September. Swamp crotch sucks.

If the rumor mill is correct, it was USC that reached out to the Big10. I believe they saw the writing on the wall with Texas going to the SEC and the Big10 was their desired landing spot. If the Big10 had refused, I think they would have contacted the SEC next. Yes, the Big10 has dead weight, but it serves a purpose. All of the lesser programs are in well populated states and, with the exception of Indiana, are the only major university in each state. Even NW is in the hub of Chicago. FWIW, I don’t see Iowa as a dead weight program. ** Edited by dayooper at 6/12/2024, 10:46:44 AM

They have always pushed the SEC over anybody else, but I think it will be worse this year.

With 4 schools out there, I’m sure some will be at that 10:00 spot.

As soon as Maryland and Rutgers were added, I knew the Big10 needed better brands to compete. That being said, going back to 12 is preferable.

I live in the heart of Big10 country (Michigan) and very few want Miami. There are quite a few that don’t want to expand and even are those want to go back to an 11 team league. There’s an even bigger chunk that are surprised by every change. They just want to go to the game and be part of the atmosphere, my daughter included. You very well could be hearing no to FSU. I hear differently. Doesn’t mean we are both wrong.

Fox, NBC and CBS will carry them.

So many Big10 alumni in Florida that would jump at the chance to see their team play there. FSU gives great matchups with other schools and it’s a great road trip in the winter months. Clemson? Not so much. As I said before, I would also love VT in the Big10, more so than UNC.

Texas, USC, UCLA, Washington and Oregon. They put the entire AAU membership as their peers and no one else. Whether they hold AAU status that highly or they just put little effort into it, I don’t know. Knowing Michigan, it could be either.

I just don’t see how UVA moves the needle for the Big10. It’s fantastic school in a new market, but that’s about it. If being a fantastic school in a new area is important, than why did we turn down Stanford and Cal? Why isn’t GT in consideration? Wouldn’t Boston College or Syracuse coveted? There needs to be football appeal and UVA just doesn’t have it. I’m not sure the SEC would want UVA, but I think they are more valuable to the them than the Big10. Back when Rutgers and Maryland joined, absolutely! But this is a different time with requirements and UVA doesn’t move the needle like the other schools do, including VT.

Not even close. My point was the amount of research isn’t as important as how it was awarded. The AAU holds grants that are awarded by merit in higher regard than those that are just given. I also said if VT is close (your insider says you are close) that you must having success at earning those merit grants. VT would fit in with engineering schools like Purdue and Michigan very well. As a fan of Michigan, VT has always been on my list of schools I would love to have in the Big10. In fact, you all are in the tier right underneath ND and FSU as my most desired non SEC schools I would love to be in a conference with. I love the energy of the Stadium on game days. I love playing schools with atmospheres like yours. You would fit in well with Michigan, OSU, PSU, Wisconsin, Iowa and Nebraska (all with different but fun atmospheres).