This was the week the dam was supposed to begin breaking per Josh Pate.
Well, the week has come and gone.
Anyone inspect the dam for breaks yet?
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hokieZ71
2y
He said basically that FSU is making a move by the August 15th date and likely in July. That’s what he said. He never said FSU was making their move the 2nd week of July. He never guaranteed it was July. But he did basically guarantee it would be by August 15th.
At least not in the 10 minute video I watched of him making that claim.
(In response to this post by Maroon Baboon)
2y
conversation on several shows. He also said his connections were in the legal community and it would shake up college athletics. If all he said is that FSU is making a move before Aug. 15, well, that's not particularly exclusive. Multiple FSU talking heads have been saying that.
(In response to this post by hokieZ71)
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2hhoop3
2y
no different than all the others, aside from a little creativity with the Jurassic Park meme. They have touted impending doom for the near term for over a year now with the Aug 15 date as the fallback position. That has a two fold benefit. It allows them to generate current clicks/views and gives them a known deadline as back up. The same thing happened in August 2023 and if results are the same this time it will happen again in August 2025 with one added twist. They have the mid year date of February 2025 added for enticement. My opinion is the seers who missed on August 2023 do not get a second try and if nothing transpires by August 2024, those are out of the running for later dates and should be roundly showered every time they make a new prediction with their previous miss. Were these clickbait specialists held to account where it hit them directly in their pocketbook they would be forced to think much more critically about the information they choose to share and slow the race to be first out of the gate measurably. That holds true for more than just sports, in my opinion. It would also reduce the common practice nowadays of circular reporting where one idiot makes a post and others hop on for the ride attributing the same info to the original source and adding their own spin.
(In response to this post by hokieZ71)
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hokieZ71
2y
Greg Flugaur is exactly what you just said. Greg Swaim is. A ton of YouTubers and Twitter guys are exactly what you said. The whole 365 sports crew and all that.
Josh Pate isn’t like that. He’s just a football guy. He goes to campuses and does shows. He gets interviews with head coaches. He had a great interview with Brent Pry during spring practice that you should watch. It’s linked below. You should watch if you have the interest in watching 100% football talk for a half an hour. He didn’t talk to Pry about conference affiliation or any of that crap. It’s 100% football. Internet trolls and rumor mongers don’t get that kind of access.
And if you actually watch him talk about the FSU thing in his video on that, he repeatedly says the entire time he doesn’t care way or the other. He has no skin in the game. But he heard something from somebody deep in the legal side of it, so he disclosed what he could disclose. I don’t think he’s ever said anything of that kind of rumor mill kind of talk ever before that regarding conference realignment.
Anyway, totally disagree. Hope you watch his video with Coach Pry. It’s good stuff
(In response to this post by 2hhoop3)
2y
conference realignment prognostication. And that is what a lot of others were saying too.
** Edited by Maroon Baboon at 7/15/2024, 5:31:04 PM
(In response to this post by hokieZ71)
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hokieZ71
2y
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VPI_1998
2y
in the day. Maybe that is his intent to get attention. I am just waiting for him to utter the words "sausage...sausage...Bears....Bears" in that accent
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hokieZ71
2y
(In response to this post by VPI_1998)
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2hhoop3
2y
and while this is not his normal MO this is EXACTLY what he did THIS TIME. Disagree as you like but, saying you do not care does not give somebody a pass and, quite likely the opposite is true whatever the reason might be.
(In response to this post by hokieZ71)
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hokieZ71
2y
He’s more on the level of a Ross Dellenger or Brett McMurphy. If they say something, I’ll listen. If Flugaur or Swaim say something, I usually don’t even pay attention to it.
And by the way, we are talking about FSU leaving the ACC when FSU has been suing the ACC to leave for over half a year. Their entire Board of Trustees had a publicized confab a year ago where they all said they had to get out of the ACC. August 15th is the date to announce they won’t be in the conference for 2025. Why does everybody seem aghast that FSU leaving the ACC is actually a possibility? There’s nothing that could be wild speculation about the subject of “FSU might leave the ACC”
** Edited by hokieZ71 at 7/15/2024, 12:11:16 PM
(In response to this post by 2hhoop3)
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2hhoop3
2y
isn't that they want to leave or that August 15 is the most present deadline. Pate joined the clickbait guys for this one time so far when he chooses to share a vague something he heard. I don't think anybody that has been paying attention is necessarily aghast or really even care at this point and the prevailing sentiment is much closer to stfu, pay all the money and leave.
(In response to this post by hokieZ71)
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hokieZ71
2y
He said very specifically that he heard from somebody knowledgeable about the legal side of things that FSU would be announcing they’re leaving the ACC by August 15th. That’s the opposite of vague. I don’t have to read between any lines to try and decipher what he meant. I have enough cognitive function to know what he meant. We know exactly what he said, and time will tell how he will be judged based on whether or not it happens. This isn’t a “wait, it’s actually going to be later” thing. He’s either right or wrong, and we know by the 15th.
I think the problem with some people is they just don’t have the stamina to wait a few weeks and see what happens. Too many people this day and age need everything to happen right now. Too many attention spans are near zero. They hear “BY August 15th” and they just want it NOW. Just wait, dude. He’s either right or wrong. We know BY August 15th. Not TODAY.
(In response to this post by 2hhoop3)
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2hhoop3
2y
it could happen before the 15th(SEC media days this week). While saying they will be announcing they are leaving by the 15th has specificity with respect to date, it is vague with respect to details and context as to what was heard. My criticism surrounds that as opposed to any lack of stamina or patience to wait to the 15th.
(In response to this post by hokieZ71)
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hokieZ71
2y
So sounds to me like it might happen in July but definitely by August 15th. I can wait.
Look, if it’s August 16th with nothing happening, I’ll join you on the “Josh Pate is a shill” thread. But I won’t do it until that date.
(In response to this post by 2hhoop3)
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2hhoop3
2y
join me then or now, right or wrong. My observations were merely questioning what REAL information these guys share. Everyone who has been following has known since August 15, 2023 passed that the next deadline was August 15, 2024. So I ask you again, what real info was shared aside from a vague reference to hearing something from a legal source?
(In response to this post by hokieZ71)
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hokieZ71
2y
If you’re literally saying you only want to read about actual information when things actually happen, why are you here? This board is nothing but speculation about conference realignment. It’s quite literally the name of the message board we are both writing back and forth to each other over the internet right now. Just wait and come back when you hear from the news that something has happened. Because, ain’t nothing happened today, that’s for sure. It’s just hot as heck and I’m tired of cleaning out my attic in 100 degree temps.
I post all the time about what might happen, because it’s interesting, and because I’m biased about hoping VT ends up in a good conference. I don’t have any real information about anything, because it’s my opinions. So Josh Pate hears from a guy and says something will happen by August 15th. Great, let’s see what happens by August 15th and talk about it in the meantime. I don’t really give a rip if he’s right or wrong or factual or not. He at least has more contacts than Greg Flugaur so hell, I’ll let him shoot his shot. If he’s wrong, heck, he will end up like them. What’s it to me?
(In response to this post by 2hhoop3)
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2hhoop3
2y
about only wanting to read factual information. I do like facts and I do like new info and opinions, particularly those supported with reason and sound critical thinking.
My question to you then and now is what real new info did Pate share as his scoop? The August 15th date has been known for a year and we do not have any info, at least to my knowledge, as to what Pate heard from his legal sources other than an announcement by August 15.
** Edited by 2hhoop3 at 7/15/2024, 1:58:47 PM
(In response to this post by hokieZ71)
2y
Was the big event of last week.
(In response to this post by hokieZ71)
2y
…would the ACC even touch a few?
The B12 is in NO WAY superior to the ACC and these clickbait articles are so misleading.
ACC:
FSU Clemson
UNC Miami
VT UVA
NC State Duke
Louisville Cal
Notre Dame Stanford
Georgia Tech SMU
Syracuse Pitt
And you’re telling me that the Big12 is even remotely close in football (and all sports) to:
WVU Texas Tech
Baylor Colorado
OK State BYU
Kansas State Utah
Iowa State UCF
Cincinatti Arizona
Arizona State Kansas
Big12 supporters are putting out so many click-bait articles it’s not even funny.
Yes, you have wet dreams about FSU and Clemson joining the B12…but even that is just laughable compared to picking the ACC apart.
Big12 is apparently so badass it can just take FSU, Clem, UNC, UVA, ND, Louisville, VT, NC St, Pitt.
More like the other way around. ACC would poach your 2-3 decent programs in a heartbeat.
UCF, WVU, Cinci as a start would jump in a heartbeat. But the ACC doesn’t want them (right now). ACC could likely take Utah too to pair with our new West Coast additions. And at that point honestly, the ACC could poach ANY or ALL of the West Coast schools they wanted in the B12.
F the B12.
VT BABY!!!
** Edited by Hardcore_Hokie at 7/14/2024, 10:26:25 PM
(In response to this post by Maroon Baboon)
2y
FSU, Clemson, and P/T ND are included. It's not even close.
Be very careful what you ask for though, because the ACC will implode when FSU and Clemson leave - and make no mistake, they are leaving.
The ACC will not be in a position to poach anyone. They were, and they could have been, for sure - but they had their chance to acquire any current B12 team they wanted, but they didn't. So now, teams in the ACC are suing to get out of the conference.
There is no chance that the B12 gets any of the top ACC schools, unless the money is there. Currently, the money is not there.
(In response to this post by Hardcore_Hokie)
2y
Both said today they’re not expanding further.
ACC or B12/B16?
Whoever wins, wins. Whoever loses, becomes extinct.
I know where my bet is.
Good luck Big12 (B16). You’re going against a MUCH bigger dog. That’s all I’m sayin’.
** Edited by Hardcore_Hokie at 7/16/2024, 12:07:37 AM
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
2y
can call the apparent third conference anything you want. If the ACC sticks together, I'm WAY OK with that. i have no allegiance to my conference other than the history with the hateful 8.
Honestly, except for the money, what difference does it make? After my conference went through this mess, I was content with the truck stop conference. I was not happy when the PAC imploded (what a waste). I'm not happy that your conference is going through the same mess the rest of us have gone through.
What we want, and what reality is seems to be seems to be different because we are fans of the game (me), and fans of our school. The consolidation, or elimination of the historical conferences are a shame.
If the P2 does not pick up FSU and Clemson, and they are successful in their suits, then the B12 is in play, because every school in the B12 understands what it is like to be on the outside, looking in. I believe that the B12 would go to uneven distributions to bring in FSU or ND in a heartbeat. Maybe Clemson as well.
I have seen no one in the ACC that would be willing to go to uneven distributions to the extent that would keep FSU happy in the ACC. It's a shame, because 4 conferences and the G5 are better than 3 conferences and the G5. That, and the bottom 6 in the new ACC do not bring in the numbers. Cal could if they ever wanted too, but the other two are privates that just do not have the numbers.
(In response to this post by Hardcore_Hokie)
2y
Historically, they draw big numbers but this is on the backs of Texas and OK. Games without those typically not ratings winners. There is always the argument that those teams got the best time slots (like FSU/Clem/ND ACC away) but there is also a reason why networks do so. Another hope is the Colorado will continue to have Dion mania but that’s doubtful. Most of the teams they’ve added in the last few years don’t add a lot in terms of viewership (with many like in the ACC low physical attendees too).
(In response to this post by Hardcore_Hokie)
2y
coming from VT fans? Because all I care about is what's best for VT football. The ACC certainly isn't representing VT's best interests, nor is it furthering the interests of the collective football brands; conference leadership is primarily representing the interests of the small, private schools who are not competitive in football, have small, nominal fan bases, and stand to get wrecked. Accordingly, if the ACC isn't going to go to bat for its major brands, I could care less about the ACC, or the fate of any other ACC member. They can all rot for all I care, as long as the VT football brand thrives.
Where is all this "ACC pride" coming from? Why? It would be one thing if the ACC let the football brands that bring 98% of the value dictate things and run the show, but, instead, Jim Phillips appears to largely be taking his marching orders from the AD at Notre Dame, who will not fully join the conference, and the boosters at Wake Forest. How does that make any VT fan want to chant ACC, beat their chest, and talk down about the Big 12? I just don't get it. The ACC is circling the commode.
(In response to this post by Hardcore_Hokie)
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VTCALS72
2y
For Hokies, it isn't as much beating our chest about the ACC or even ACC pride as it is what is best for VT football and for sure it's SEC, Big 10, ACC losing no more than 4 teams, and then, well really that is it.
If you expect any league to do what you are blaming the ACC for not doing, then you will forever be dissatisfied. Would you really want unequal distribution for FSU and Clemson? Neither of the P2 have that. Would you be OK with VT getting less than an equal share so FSU could get more?
Now the one thing that I agree with is that Jim Philips is not looking out for anyone as much as he is ND and UNC. But that is every conference as well.
ACC is not circling the commode. We are the most unstable conference until all this legal stuff is decided but then we will be in the same whirlpool as the Big 12 is.
(In response to this post by Baltimore_Hokie)
2y
(In response to this post by VTCALS72)
2y
and, he has opined below that he thinks playing Liberty and JMU every year would be preferable to VT being in the Big 12, so take that for what you will.
(In response to this post by 133193Hokie)
2y
frankly doesn't make any sense, including this time around. What "no more than 4 teams" do you think the ACC is going to lose, exactly? And, assuming one of those 4 teams wasn't VT, you'd prefer VT to hang around and play the leftovers and whatever G5 programs are added? If so, your opinion is just bizarre. What kind of media contract do you think that conference can muster? I'll give you some insight - last year, AAC members got $7 million. Sun Belt members got $1.67 million. CUSA members got $800k. That's the kind of gun barrel VT would be looking down.
Contrary to your wants and feelings, the ACC as a power is already 100% tanked, so there's nothing really Jim Phillips or anyone can do about it now, except decide which G5 schools Wake Forest and Boston College want to extend invites to. However, were that NOT the case, it would have helped if ANY decisions had been made post-2003 to strengthen and solidify the FOOTBALL brands in the conference. After the ACC's hand was basically forced into extending a membership invite to VT in lieu of Syracuse, literally every decision made by ACC leadership has flown in the face of any member that has a serious football agenda. Time and time again, every decision made has been to either add more basketball-first schools, or placate the members that add no value and are causing all the problems.
If you're asking me, yes, I think every school ought to be paid out in media rights money commensurate with the value that they actually add to the conference. I don't care what the SEC and B1G do; this isn't the SEC or the B1G. Maybe then, the ACC wouldn't now be chock full of private schools with non-competitive football programs that basically nobody wants to watch. This is the entertainment business. If members want to get paid, field competitive squads, have your coaches produce soundbites and market your program, win games you should win. Bring something to the table. Otherwise, get out of the conference and go play with the afterthoughts in the AAC. That's the way it should have been done from day one. I things had been done like that, then Whit Babcock wouldn't have been spending tens of millions of dollars on non-revenue sports while letting the football program progressively tank for a decade.
(In response to this post by VTCALS72)
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VTCALS72
2y
teams. I don't know why this keeps coming up. Right now the ACC has what 18 teams? If 4 left, why add more? Even if the 4 of FSU, Clemson, UNC and UVA left AND if Stanford and Cal go as well, that is still 12 teams. I think the triple A conferences will be smaller than the P2. 12 is enough.
And honestly, for tailgating, fan experience and rivalries, Liberty and JMU are way better than AZ, AZ st, BYU etc.
(In response to this post by Baltimore_Hokie)
2y
a relevant question, as with Baltimore, I'm trying to grasp where you are coming from.
Attend just one Iowa State game, against any opponent, and you would get a different perspective, I assure you. While the B12 does not have any blue bloods, this idea that they are G5 is absurd.
I really hope that VT doesn't end up in the AAC, and I really don't think they will, but your perception of the football programs in the B12 is not based in reality.
(In response to this post by VTCALS72)
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VTCALS72
2y
moon.
I don't believe I ever said the big 12 was G5. They most definitely are not especially for the areas WEST of the Mississippi and EAST of the Rockies. I have said they are in a bit of a P2 desert and that gives them an advantage. I am saying is that when those teams come east of the Mississippi, or east coast teams go to the lower midwest, they are not seen as being as good as they are seen in their home area.
I do believe that Liberty and JMU would bring more fans, would have a better tailgate and game atmosphere than most of the Big 12 teams. It is not whether say Iowa ST is less of a program but the 2 mentioned are about 100 miles away from VT. That is a difference you just won't accept. Regionalism is going to be big for the triple A and lower conferences.
There is a big difference in the big 12 being g5 as opposed to being much better in their "lane" but not when they get out of it.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
2y
things of almost all the schools of the ACC. Some remember Doug Flutie, Michael Vick, and there was the Earnie Davis movie. Besides FSU and Clemson, when it comes to football, there isn't much respect for your "brands" in the ACC. As a matter of fact, it's probably worse than that. No one out here would watch NCSU or VT, for any other reason than they made a decent bowl.
That may sound disrespectful, but it is my fist hand experience with the fans, bars, and the people that actually watch the games out here.
While i get excited about VT and NCSU being in the B12 - everyone else only want Pitt and Louisville after the obvious football brands. They also like the idea of Duke and UConn for there basketball over the ACC football teams. The entire State of Virginia barely registers out here.
I believe it was you who wrote that is the very reason that the conferences should not plat, merge, poach, or be in the same conference.
While on one level, you are not entirely wrong, but that is tradition and history. Today, it's about survival to play another day. Do you want VT to be at the table? Or do you want them playing in a conference with Liberty and JMU?
The real problem here is not that the B12 is getting out of their lane, it's that you have a perception that VT has their own lane.
(In response to this post by VTCALS72)
2y
But your Kansas and Iowa friends might want to look at population and income rankings in regards to this realignment topic.
Virginia, Maryland, DC, North Carolina, South Carolina, New York, Florida, Georgia, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania is the ACC’s footprint.
The Midwest is a tiny fraction of that. ACC is watched by a TON of people with a TON of money.
Iowa and Kansas might not watch our games but I’m pretty sure that’s irrelevant…and especially if we don’t watch yours.
Ratings are pretty important.
Not trying to be disrespectful, but the East Coast and the Midwest are not close to equal in this money/ratings conversation.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
2y
that there is a LOT of competition for the eyeballs in Virginia, NC, and on up North.
The B12 schools in most of the States, do not have the same choices for college football games. In some states, it's the only major ports programs that compete for the fan dollars. The population is sparce in flyover for sure, but then you have the entire State tuned in to your game, in all the sports bars, and is the only game in town for many. It makes a difference, otherwise BC would be beating us all in ratings.
The bottom 6 in ratings in your conference would be the bottom 6 if they were in our conference.
(In response to this post by Hardcore_Hokie)
2y
Ditch Wake and BC and we’re good.
But the top 5 in your conference would be 5-10 at best in the current ACC.
Notre Dame
Clemson
Miami
Florida State
UNC
VT/Louisville
Utah is a very good program, but they’re the only one ratings-wise that could enter that conversation.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
2y
down the top 4 in your conference trumps anything the B12 has to offer today. Today, without a doubt, the ACC is a better football conference than the B12.
Take the to 4 away, and it's not even close - the other way.
(In response to this post by Hardcore_Hokie)
2y
I’ll concede this debate until something actually happens.
Appreciate your posts.
VT BABY!!!
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
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VTCALS72
2y
Most ACC schools don't fit in the Big 12 and the Big 12 does not fit on either coast. It is not disrespectful to say it. You nailed it, one barely registers to the other. That is not to say one or the other does not play good football, just that it is matching weakness on weakness.
But maybe we are saying the exact same thing just with different accent , accents that match our regions. The Big 12 schools see no more advantage to the east coast schools than the east coast schools see in the Big 12 schools. Just too much difference.
And right back at you on the last sentence, It is that the Big 12 is getting out of their lane and into a lane they know far too little about.
And for sure, I don't think VT has our own lane. In fact we are probably in one of the worst positions possible. At least Wake and BC know what their future is. We are still in a free fall. I just know that there is no advantage to playing in the Big 12 with schools 2 time zones away. If UVA and UNC stay in the ACC then it is no contest for the ACC as the best place for VT. If UNC and UVA go SEC, then we will be surrounded by SEC teams and I am not sure it matters where we are under that scenario. I see no way being in the Big 12 would/could help VT's competitive position against that in any way. It is kind of like I expect the Big 12 Texas schools and OSU to lose ground in those states to the SEC offering up Texas, TAMU and OU. P2 will rule and I do not believe that the Big 12 will come any closer to being a P3 than the ACC. Neither has a chance.
** Edited by VTCALS72 at 7/15/2024, 11:27:15 PM
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
2y
see VT play at Texas Tech than stay at home ant play BC and JMU. I would watch the Hokies with interest in a game like that, on par with me watching the Hokies take on Miami. It would be good football.
I think some confuse the Game of Thrones of the conferences with the ability for teams to legitimately compete on the field or court. I think it's short sighted. Your school will be fine. I'm fine with my team in the truck stop conference Maybe you prefer the academic conference that may, or may not emerge. Either way, as long as your conference has an auto to the playoffs, you will be good.
(In response to this post by VTCALS72)
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VTCALS72
2y
We play more than BC and the teams viewed at the bottom of the league. And this will impact way more than football. In another post you said something about inter conference scheduling between the ACC and Big 12. I think that would be a great idea. But I would not want all of VT sports having to travel to Lubbock rather than Winston-Salem. That just does not make sense to me.
A merger might work if there were divisions and each division was semi independent.
And finally, you may disagree with the idea of a P2 then a mile of difference to whatever level the Big 12 ends up on then miles to the G5 but big media has not poured tons of money into gathering the teams they want into that nice 2 conference cluster. They will not allow any real challenge. The deck is stacked.
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2y
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2hhoop3
2y
conferences view each other similarly. The real question is whose view of the other might be more accurate and what criteria can be used to support that view.
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2y
pound their chest because we are the mighty B12. Some do have a negative view of the bottom ACC teams. It would be pretty easy to settle things on the field and court, but except for basketball, there really isn't a rich history to draw on.
If the ACC comes out of this mess strong (it's very possible), then scheduling football games with the B12 should become a priority. There could be some really good matchups.
let the Big 10 and SEC beat up each other, and the rest of us need to win playoff games.
(In response to this post by 2hhoop3)
2y
Liberty? JMU? Better than playing Arizona State? Oklahoma State? TCU? West Virginia? Utah?
You've now officially become a parody of yourself. Let's just agree to discontinue arguing about this.
(In response to this post by VTCALS72)
2y
To me, that's preserving the ACC if at all possible. I like the history, the hoops tournament, the baseball and the academics. I am very skeptical that VT will ever get an invite to the Big Ten or SEC, and certainly not at a full share, or be successful if they ever were to be a half share member in such a competitive environment.
Plus I think institutions should honor agreements.
So I'm hoping (and predicting) that the ACC wins the lawsuits with Clemson/FSU, or makes settlement on anything other than onerous terms impossible, and we then revisit this debacle in 5 or so years. Hopefully by then the climate has improved and the #s will be competitive. Or the ACC needs to go to inequality distributions.
(In response to this post by Baltimore_Hokie)
2y
like you profess to care for the ACC, perhaps the conference wouldn't be in the mess it's in.
Also, I get that you like the "history," and, baseball, and the ACCT, etc., but VT has only been in the conference 20 years, and the people running the whole enterprise didn't even really want to let VT in when they did. If you hang out in the NC triad, that whole crowd STILL doesn't think VT belongs in the ACC. When I consider VT athletics in the larger context, I don't immediately think of VT as having any kind of special connection to the ACC, as if they were a founding member or "truly belong" in the ACC. The ACC has never done VT any favors. I think of the ACC as only the most recent chapter and, frankly, as a bunch of lace-doily snobs that finally let VT crash their party. So, I just don't understand the almost-holy reverence some folks around here seem to pay to the ACC. Maybe it's an inferiority complex or some weird manifestation of Stockholm syndrome.
(In response to this post by SpeakToDamien)
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VTCALS72
2y
I think the media contract of the future for all of non P2 football is for the media not to contract to produce content for all of a leagues teams but to buy streamed in content for their distribution. They may have a couple of their personality announcer commenting as the games stream through their offices but no media personnel will be in Blacksburg or Stillwater or even Houston or Atlanta. They will not buy games between teams in half filled stadiums with losing records. So those schools that continue with losing records and half or less filled stadiums will not be on or get even minor media $$$$$.
(In response to this post by SpeakToDamien)
Not sure how you come to that conclusion…
Other than CU and FSU, ACC has been a joke for last 10+ years.
(In response to this post by Hardcore_Hokie)
2y
Miami, VT, UNC, Louisville?
(Even after removing our 2 top programs)
?
(In response to this post by CrystalCoveHokie)
2y
Miami. UNC and KU may be equal brands in basketball, but if you haven't noticed, basketball doesn't matter.
(In response to this post by Hardcore_Hokie)
2y
SEC is staying pat. Commish said it today.
B1G the same. They just added a bunch of schools and are cool for the foreseeable future.
FSU and Clem can either go B12, go Independent, or stay with the ACC with Notre Dame, UNC, Miami, VT, etc.
When they choose to stay with the ACC, the B12 immediately becomes PREY and the new “sinking ship”.
WVU and Cinci, you listening?
Good luck B12 fellas, we’d love to have *some* of you and form a new P3 ACC. Your conference will become extinct WAY before the ACC does.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
2y
for the taking for like, forever. Don't pass over UCF, as I think they will become a powerhouse in football, as it comes down to recruiting.
The ACC SHOULD be far and away a stronger conference than the B12, but like the PAC, you guys passed over every single one of us. SMH.
(In response to this post by Hardcore_Hokie)
2y
…in the past decade+. And the biggest (TX/OU) just now.
And you’re telling me it’s a “stable” conference and better than the ACC?
LOL to all you B12 fans that are regulars on this VT website (got any VT regulars on your site?)
Again, good luck to you B12. We’d love to have (some of) you.
VT BABY!!!
(In response to this post by Hardcore_Hokie)
2y
BYU got a contract in line with the ACC. Good, bad, or ugly, the B12 isn't going anywhere.
(In response to this post by Hardcore_Hokie)
2y
And that ACC contract is being challenged in court right now. Wouldn’t surprise me if FSU exits and the ACC renogitiates for far more than the current amount.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
2y
help. Remember, the PAC was offered less than the ACC is currently making, and that was with Oregon and Washington.
Either way, if it's only FSU and Clemson that leave, the ACC should be fine.
(In response to this post by Hardcore_Hokie)
2y
…come crawling back home, begging his wife to forgive him for threatening divorce.
And I do expect ESPN to renegotiate the terms of the ACC’s deal.
Duke/UVA/UNC have some of the best lawyers on the planet. They’re just smarter than these other parties and don’t go public with non-facts and rumors.
The demise of the ACC is being highly overblown in the media and on message boards.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
2
2hhoop3
2y
what they got but, how and why they got it and just as relevant will they be able to keep it the next go round? Some, including you, believe they got it as a true reflection of the conference value, others believe it to be more likely a combination of conference value, compensation for services rendered in lieu of legal action and funds the PAC 12 left on the table. Time will likely shed more light on the accuracy of each opinion.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
2y
contracts they did? We have speculated on that in the past, It was the PAC's contract to have, but the PAC wouldn't even consider adding any hateful 8 schools, and they thought is was too low. the PAC completely mis read the room, and paid a heft price.
However, that contract was awarded before the PAC imploded and the 4 corners were added. The 4 corners brought value, but we won't know until the next contract.
I do know, however, that the hatful 8 made investments in their football programs, and will be able to hold their own - at east for now.
(In response to this post by 2hhoop3)
2
2hhoop3
2y
agrees on is PAC 12 leadership, commissioners, Presidents and ADs, were a collection of crooks, idiots and arrogant narcissists that drove a viable conference into the ground mostly by their own faults.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
2y
to want to hang around an ACC that doesn't include FSU and Clemson? No matter where they end up going, without FSU and Clemson, I can 100% assure you that the national perception will be that the ACC has been effectively neutered, and it will not be seriously considered as a peer football conference to the Big 12, much less the SEC and B1G.
And, therein lies the the major problem with all this "ACC IS JUST AS GOOD!!!!!" stuff...it won't just be FSU and Clemson leaving. When they leave, it will start a chain reaction of all the other football brands trying to trample each other in a rush to get out as well. If you don't believe that, you must have slept through the implosions of the Big East and the PAC-12.
(In response to this post by Hardcore_Hokie)
V
VTCALS72
2y
the Big 12 for schools in the eastern time zone.
(In response to this post by Baltimore_Hokie)
2y
The ACC will have lost two of its biggest football brands, and the media rights payouts will tank. Also, I'll never figure out why you're so adamant VT or Miami football would be better off playing Duke, Syracuse, Wake Forest, and Boston College football vs. a Big 12 schedule, other than you're just entirely enamored with the idea of being in the ACC, and it being for your own personal nostalgia. Otherwise, it doesn't make any sense from any perspective.
(In response to this post by VTCALS72)
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VTCALS72
2y
Vt, Miami, GT, Lville, NCSU, UVA, UNC, are equal to the top 7 in the Big 12. Then Duke = Kansas and Cuse is a coach away from be equal to most teams in the B12. No league will get away from their Wakes and BCs. Every league has weaker teams. But I had sure rather have all our sports team play Wake than AZ St. I can't see anything less in playing Wake or BC than Northwestern, Ill, Indiana, Vandy, Miss St, Houston, AZ St or others.
IMHO the only thing in this thread that is overwhelmingly personal is you dislike to the point of hate you have for the ACC.
(In response to this post by Baltimore_Hokie)
2y
All it took was ESPN and Fox conspiring to destroy the conference, take what they wanted, and leave OSU and WSU to rot.
Also, again, for the 8 millionth time, when FSU and Clemson leave, at least half or more of those ACC members you've named ARE GOING TO ALSO LEAVE. They are not going to stay in a G5 ACC. I'm not sure how I can make you understand that. We have seen it happen literally EVERY, SINGLE TIME there is a major conference realignment.
I don't dislike or hate the ACC, I just don't hold any special reverence for it like you seem to, and I don't understand the undying affinity. VT had to force its way into the ACC, and they've never done VT any favors. So, what do I care about the ACC? If it survives for another 100 years as a G5 basketball league with Tulane, Rice, ECU, Memphis, and USF as members, great, more power to them. But I don't want VT football associated with it.
(In response to this post by VTCALS72)
2y
example because its demise was different than the Pac-12's death. I say that because the Big East non-FBS schools decided to reclaim the conference and kick out the FBS football schools.
(In response to this post by Baltimore_Hokie)
2y
was well on its way to implosion. All of its football (and some of its basketball) powers had already all gone elsewhere, and were being replaced by what were then all-G5 football programs. The media rights value of the conference accordingly plummeted. Because they no longer stood to benefit at all from bookoo football bucks, the Catholic basketball schools made an offer to buy the trademarks, logos, etc. and the MSG tournament contracts from the conference and do their own thing, while the Big East football schools could do their own thing under new branding, which ended up being the American.
All of that is very similar to what's already unfolding and what's likely to happen to the ACC, just without the purchase of the conference trademarks, etc., which might end up happening; who knows? You'll notice that OSU and WSU haven't just thrown away all the PAC-12 trademarks...they're going to try and use them for something. I expect once the dust settles and all the major football brands have left for the SEC, B1G or Big 12, the ACC will end up returning to its roots and doing what it knows best - a basketball-first conference like the post-2014 new Big East. It will still have significant value, but it will not be a place for serious football programs.
(In response to this post by VTHokie2000)
BYU, Utah, TCU, OK St, K St
(In response to this post by Hardcore_Hokie)
2y
that's currently careening towards implosion and relegation at 200 MPH with no brakes.
(In response to this post by Hardcore_Hokie)
Last I looked, these teams were making more money in Big12…..
And that’s with FSU and CU in the ACC. Why would those teams want to go to the ACC?
(In response to this post by Hardcore_Hokie)
H
HouClone
2y
In fact, they have brands while the the Big 12 does not currently and has to build them up like VT did with Beamer and Vick.
The ACC bottom half is really bad however. But that ironically helps the conference reputation with a top dog or dogs, like the Big 10. Clemson dominated a weak ACC for years when Miami and FSU were down. But there was little grief from the media and fans when the "National Champions from the ACC" was thrown around.
(In response to this post by Hardcore_Hokie)
2y
because when FSU and Clemson won their national championships over the last decade, ALL you heard from the punditry was about how the ACC was a top heavy conference in football that only had two good programs, and the rest of the conference was nothing but cupcake trash. That entrenched perception pushed by the punditry (mainly ESPN talking heads) for the past decade culminated in undefeated ACC champion FSU being left out of the CFP last year, which was met by crickets from ACC leadership.
(In response to this post by HouClone)
O
obguthr
2y
No Big XII school is among the top 25 in game attendance. Texas Tech is the highest at 29th. ACC has 3: Clemson(14), Florida St.(18), VT (25).
In all-time win loss records for football, you have Arizona St. (20), West Virginia (23), and Utah (25). BYU and Colorado are close at 31st and 32nd, respectively. These are their top football brands. ACC has 4: Florida St. (11), Miami (16), Clemson (17), Virginia Tech (19)
ACC is clearly the better football conference since we have not yet lost our top brands like the Pac-12 and Big XII have. The gap is even greater once you factor in things like men's basketball, revenue, TV markets, living alumni, director's cup rankings, etc. The problem with the the ACC is not a lack of quality programs, it is simply that there are too many bottom feeders. Even those bottom feeders add value in non-football ways. Well, maybe not BC.
(In response to this post by Hardcore_Hokie)
On other hand….AZ, AZSt, UCF and Houston have larger enrollments…
Than any ACC school.
(In response to this post by obguthr)
V
VTCALS72
2y
If it was really worth anything then VT and NCSU would be the rage rather than UVA and UNC.
(In response to this post by CrystalCoveHokie)
Counter point to living alumni. Not sure it means anything in a vacuum
(In response to this post by VTCALS72)
D
dayooper
2y
. . . the conference is the best evidence for your point. As for in game attendance, there are many factors in that data point. Do you know why Michigan has more in game attendance than Oregon? Because Michigan Stadium holds 40,000 more spectators than Autzen stadium. Since we are talking ACC attendance, using Florida St and Clemson in your points doesn’t work either as they are both hell bent on leaving the conference. That leaves the top 25th school as the only top 25 school in either. VT has an awesome game day atmosphere as is deservedly in that ranking, but again, including schools that want out is not the best evidence.
Take away FSU and Clemson and that List doesn’t look nearly as good as it does with them. Yes, the ACC is a great basketball conference, but so is the Big12. Neither has the most dominant basketball program in the country (UConn) and the Big12 is back courting them again. The top Directors Cup program in the nation (Stanford) just had to take a huge cut just to get into a conference on the other side of the country.
I sincerely hope the ACC keeps a strong conference when FSU and Clemson leave. I’m not a fan of the Big12, but appreciate their ability to adapt and the foresight to outwit the PAC.
** Edited by dayooper at 7/15/2024, 11:08:45 AM
(In response to this post by obguthr)
2y
collective nose up on the B12 when they had the chance to invite them to their conference. call it a west coast bias, and I'm reading the exact same arguments on this board - lest call that an East Coast bias.
You guys underestimate the Iowa states at your own detriment, and it is causing your collapse.
ESPN and FOX didn't give them their contract "just because"
(In response to this post by dayooper)
2y
XII has parity. Kind of a good thing, competition wise. But lack of blue bloods and recent national title contenders hurts them.
Just for fun, I will list the XII's teams in order of my interest in watching them.
1. Kansas State
2. Colorado
3. Arizona State
4. Arizona
5. BYU
6. WVU
7. TCU
8-13 (those not mentioned)
14. Cincinniati
15. Houston
16. UCF
** Edited by Maroon Baboon at 7/15/2024, 8:14:16 AM
(In response to this post by Hardcore_Hokie)
2
2hhoop3
2y
that statement and wholly another to provide context and support to explain it. Your opinion is one thing, the opinion of your friends another, a widespread consistent agreement across the fanbase another and the opinion of university decision makers yet another.
The even more important info across all those groups is the why? An emotional resentment borne out of previous snubs is one thing while a reasoned and supported belief that the current conference address is the best decision yet another. Seems to me this and more is the crux of understanding "wants no part of the ACC." By the way similar refrains from VT fans have been heard before and are still heard by some today, just pointing out that saying it does not mean it will not happen. My guess is the real question for WVU, just like it is for the vast majority of schools, is it is a math question. Can they make more in a new location than their present location after factoring in the costs(hard and soft) to exit?
(In response to this post by Millpoint)
2y
Also WVU has been rejected more times by the ACC that everyone I talk to have no desire to be a part of it. It probably won't happen but we would prefer some of our former rivals join us in the Big 12 or whatever it will be know as in the future. We have no desire to be part of a conference that includes the BC's of the world.
(In response to this post by 2hhoop3)
2y
conference that may be more geographically friendly? It seemed to work out well for the MWC when the 8 schools left the WAC in the late 1990s. If the ACC is dying and a spot at the P2 table isn't an option, then it would not surprise me to see the remaining group of football schools leave to form a new conference (a la the birth of the MWC) and let the basketball schools keep the ACC name.
(In response to this post by Millpoint)
2
2hhoop3
2y
In short, it is emotional resentment combined with uncertainty the ACC can pay enough.
(In response to this post by Millpoint)
2y
(In response to this post by Millpoint)
E
EDGEMAN
2y
(In response to this post by Millpoint)
2y
Will decrease the ACC's value to the point that travel costs will not be an issue.
(In response to this post by EDGEMAN)
Big 12 should be thankful for the incompetence of the Pac 12
Nothing but respect for how they have survived but it should be them dead, not the Pac 12.
(In response to this post by Hardcore_Hokie)
2y
(In response to this post by VaTechHokiesACC)
H
hokieZ71
2y
(In response to this post by Millpoint)
H
HouClone
2y
** Edited by HouClone at 7/14/2024, 11:10:19 PM
(In response to this post by Hardcore_Hokie)
W
WarHog38
2y
At the time Pate made his prediction. Pate also specifically mentioned something happening during SEC Media Days. SEC Media Days begin tomorrow (15-19). I will be surprised if anything further happens in 2024. As I have said here before, I think we are at least a year away from anything big in the ACC on expansion.
I think the P2 helped to put the brakes on things to some extent. Each just added new members to be premiered in those conferences this year. More big adds would distract from that on the national stage.
(In response to this post by Maroon Baboon)
2y
But he also mentioned this summer. Still not sure what this said change is supposed to be.
(In response to this post by WarHog38)