Basic analytics on first 4 yrs of conf records of CMY, Brent and Seth.
Eye test of ACC is just not the same as the Tyler Hansbrough years and hope we can all agree on that. No juggernaut teams where we know that VT just has no chance. This is not the same league from years ago and was curious about how much easier Mike Young has it in conference relative to his predecessors so decided to take a closer look. Spoiler: a LOT!
From teamrankings.com and, yes, this is not the end all be all bc it is RPI-based but it helps tell the story a bit. Simply put, Brent and Seth had it so much harder than Mike Young and pretty much produced comparable results (outside of the ACC tourney, duh!) Young's is even worse if we add in the extra 4 games he has in conf vs all the crappy competition. Yes, he produced an incredible tourney run.. but he also lays turd after turd in conference.. particularly this year.
Seth's Conf record first 4 years
29-35 (.453)
ACC rank of all Conferences - Rating (source linked below)
4- 0.529
1- 0.581
4- 0.566
2- 0.582
Brent's Conf record first 4 years
32- 40 (.444)
2- 0.568
2- 0.576
1- 0.580
4- 0.574
Mike Young's Conf record first 4 years
33–38 (.465)
6- 0.558
8- 0.531
7- 0.538
6- 0.543
Link:
Team Rankings
32 Replies
3y
Simple Rating System values pulled from BasketballReference.com
The SRS is denominated as points above average and incorporates point differential and strength of schedule. Final Four type teams generally have SRS in the 20s. Our best team ever was the 2018-19 (Buzz year 5) team that made the sweet 16, with a rating of 19.28, good for 12th of 353 NCAA D1 teams that season.
Greenberg '03-07: [[ avg = 7.85 ]] << NCAAT x1 >>
3.29, 5.59, 8.17, 14.35*
Williams '14-18: [[ avg = 9.59 ]] << NCAAT x2 >>
1.29, 9.93, 12.77*, 14.35*
Young: '19-23: [[ avg = 11.34 ]] << NCAAT x2 >> {{ ACC Championship x1 }}
8.22, 12.59*, 14.48**, 10.07
** Edited by ShockWaveVT at 2/26/2023, 4:05:28 PM
(In response to this post by catdaddy)
3y
(average = 82). Buzz: 175, 63, 50, 33 (average = 82). Young: 105, 52, 19, 80 (average = 64).
It's tough to argue that Buzz and Seth inherited rosters in worse shape than Young did. Seth at least got Bryant Matthews as well as an injured Carlos Dixon who helped a lot the following year. Buzz got Adam Smith, Devin Wilson, Trevor Thompson and Justin Bibbs (who was a Johnson recruit). Young got Nolley, Bede, and Horne.
** Edited by HokieEngineer at 2/26/2023, 3:19:34 PM
(In response to this post by catdaddy)
3y
The conference is deep and has plenty of good teams. I don't care what computer numbers say.
(In response to this post by catdaddy)
Please. This isn't remotely true any more. Certainly not this year.
(In response to this post by HokiePail)
3y
A conference that has a bunch of evenly matched teams will show as weaker, even though individual teams are still solid.
Case in point, how the Mountain West is constantly ranked several spots higher than the ACC in recent years. Your link shows them last year as #5 conference and the ACC as #7. The Mountain West got four teams into the tournament and they all lost in the first round (three as higher seeds and one as a 12v12 play in game). While the ACC ended up with five teams getting bids with three in elite 8 and two in final four.
So I don’t give those metrics much credit at all.
(In response to this post by catdaddy)
J
JLuge76
3y
teams with a .500 or worse conference record (with UVA and VT not much above that really). One could say this means the conference has a bunch of really good teams who knock each other off every week....but of the 8 teams with a .500 or lower conference record, only two were over .500 overall (17-14 FSU and 17-16 Clemson). When you consider how many teams pad their early season schedules with cupcakes, that's not impressive. Cut it any way you want, but the ACC wasn't "murderer's row" last year just because the few very best teams in the conference made good runs in the tourney.
I'm not bored enough to go through every year and look at these things, but the ACC just hasn't been a scary conference in recent years (and that probably extends through some of Buzz's years too).
(In response to this post by HokieAl)
2
2hhoop3
3y
obviously incomplete and likely biased to give you your predetermined result. Winning record did not give you the answer your desired so you tried to manufacture it using conference ranks. Only problem with that is that with unbalanced conference schedules the ranking of the conference cannot really factor that in and would require a lot more work to even get a vague estimation. Moreover, using just conference record ignores tourney results as well as other differences. Seth, Buzz and CMY are all solid coaches that, in all likelihood, could not do what the others do with the same level of success. The only real conclusion that can be reached is that all three are better coaches than Ricky Stokes, the rest is just opinion influenced by personal preferences and biases.
(In response to this post by catdaddy)
3y
** Edited by VPI63 at 2/26/2023, 7:52:43 PM
(In response to this post by 2hhoop3)
I have sometimes wondered if Stokes was a UVA tanking on purpose here 😉
(In response to this post by VPI63)
3y
(In response to this post by No_Limit_Hokie)
3y
Seems you have an ax to grind Re Mike Young…
Careful about suggesting people re ‘ird-tays’…glass houses and all that…
(In response to this post by catdaddy)
3y
Probably doesn't like all the Buzz hate on here, given how he left the program.
(In response to this post by HOKIEGOBBLE)
3y
No relationship w Brent. Met him at a HS tournament, spoke to him for 2 mins. A damn good coach though.. recruited athletes in a style that they liked to play in and was pleasing to fans because of a faster pace. That said, he gutted the program and left it in shambles.. no question about that.
Mike Young comes in and is an outstanding person.. and a good coach too. My only ax (if you want to call it that) is that he plays a style that athletes do not want to play in.. slow, grinding and that is why we struggle to recruit and hold onto those kids. That said, he runs a system that does work but has been mediocre at best in an extremely over-rated conference. Yes, he caught lightning in a bottle at the ACC tourney and that was absolutely incredible. A lot of that is bc Duke and UNC missed wide open 3's w regularity in those contests. Go back and watch the tape. Regardless, it was an incredible 4 game run that should not be discounted.
(In response to this post by GretnaHokie)
3y
but didn’t Buzz come to VT and instill a disciplinarian, “at attention” policy for his players when the national anthem was played, only to back track when the “take a knee” craze was happening so as not to make his recruits mad? That was the first hint to me that this Buzz guy might not be who I thought he was. Admittedly, I don’t even know him, and maybe I’m being unfair. I acknowledge that Buzz is a very good coach. But I’m very happy with our current coach.
(In response to this post by catdaddy)
3y
There were probably TAMU boosters that needed to call their doctor due to an erection lasting more than four hours after seeing that video. Buzz didn't have some deep-seated respect for veterans or anything like that; if he did, perhaps his video about honoring veterans (that included at least a dozen actual veterans) might have included, like, maybe, a SINGLE FRIGGIN' WORD spoken by one of said veterans?
(In response to this post by GCHokieof91)
V
VTCALS72
3y
(In response to this post by catdaddy)
Shhhh. You're spoiling his narrative! 😉
(In response to this post by VTCALS72)
so we have too many white guys?
(In response to this post by catdaddy)
The first part of your post here was good...
But, it fell apart at the end...
"caught lightning in a bottle at the ACC tourney"
I guess you did not see the preceeding 11 games, leading up to that.
"Duke and UNC missed wide open 3's"
Yeah. We beat both teams badly. Leading UNC by as much as 20, and Duke by as much as 18. But you try to excuse it away. You would never do the opposite, if it was VT missing those same shots, huh.
Of course, you do end up talking about "an incredible 4 game run," when it was really a 13-2 game run. At least you say it should not be discounted, so there is that.
I do appreciate the clarifications, though.
(In response to this post by catdaddy)
Well... ain't that tough, now 😂
** Edited by No_Limit_Hokie at 2/26/2023, 11:42:26 AM
(In response to this post by GretnaHokie)
H
HokieRat
3y
Essentially starting walk-ons (Devin Wilson defense and Mueller the 6'3" PF ). What a crap team to be dealt from JJ.
But that transfer and recruiting class was solid.
(In response to this post by catdaddy)
3y
Coach Young's first team was gutted by your boy Brent, so he gets a pass for that one.
Second year we play better and make the tournament.
Last year we start off weak but have a great end of season and win the ACC. This seems to be whitewashed like some trivial thing, even though Seth and Brent never even sniffed a tournament final or won one. You can say the ACC was down last year, but the conference had 3 teams in the elite eight and two in the final four, so maybe the RPI isn't the best measure of conference strength?
This season, we started off well but Catoor's injury, Rice's extended absence and Maddox leaving has been tough to overcome. Agree that MY isn't perfect but I give him a pass this year. I think the Rice we saw last night adds a few wins at least.
** Edited by GretnaHokie at 2/26/2023, 11:35:58 AM
(In response to this post by catdaddy)
Agreed. Question, though, as maybe I missed it. Did Maddox really "quit"?
Is that a fair statement to make?
(In response to this post by GretnaHokie)
3y
Since we don't know what is going on, I shouldn't assume he quit.
(In response to this post by No_Limit_Hokie)
oh we know... you had it right the first time
(In response to this post by GretnaHokie)
V
Vippie1
3y
Well above average D1 coaches. We've been very fortunate.
Any attempts to use selective stats to marginalize the job that Seth did always gives no credit for a) the complete trainwreck the program was in when he came b) that the program was the WORSE supported program in the ACC based on budget, salaries c) that Seth had to go around begging at a time when the football program was at it's zenith and its lowest ranking assistant got more respect from the AD then the MBB head coach d) that the ACC was significantly harder then e) that the 50/50 tournament snubs were unfairly
used as ammo against his overall record f)and that he had to deal with the small but vocal small-minded portion of the fan base that we're never going to accept him .
** Edited by Vippie1 at 2/26/2023, 10:55:22 AM
(In response to this post by catdaddy)
As I have said several times, Seth's time here is indeed underappreciated
(In response to this post by Vippie1)