NCS vs. OSU thoughts
Robinson (125) looked very, very good. High podium finish at NCAAs is in play.
Singleton (174) is a dawg. Could beat Hamiti in the future.
Fishback (184) looked decent vs. Plott. Kept it to a decision. Plott has been around forever.
Trumbull (hwt) exposed some of Hendrickson’s few weaknesses in the decision loss. Trumbull is crazy strong for 237 lbs (at weigh in). I think he got one swipe against Hendrickson at the end.
Orine (133) back to 133 after wrestling 141 got stuck by the OSU ‘backup’. But they said on the telecast that the OSU coaches view him as right there with Witcraft. He will probably win the job outright and AA. Orine did not look great, though but will re-acclimate to 133 and look better soon.
Scott (157) did not impress in his loss against Caleb Fish. Really made me think Hipolito is on another level now vs. these two.
149, 141, 165, 197 last night all looked significantly below the standard usually set by NCSz
When we wrestle NCS I would favor us in those 4 weights plus 157. I’d favor NCS in the other 5 weights.
47 Replies
1y
But somehow State keeps schooling us. Later, everyone says it's OK because we score more points in the NCAA. They have the ACC banners and we have more NCAA tournament points. I say that's BS. You want to win a NCAA tournament? Start by winning your own conference. I love this Coaching staff but they don't hang banners for podium finishes and I am sick and tired of our ACC conference tourney crap shows.
(In response to this post by Hokie90_CA)
1y
Dresser's teams won ACC tournament championships in 2013, 14, and 17*, and regular season titles in 2015, 16, and 17. (*Dresser left VT for Iowa State prior to the ACC tournament in 2017, so Robie was the interim head coach when the team won the conference championship in 2017.)
Robie's teams won the ACC tournament championship in 2018 and regular season titles in 2021 and 2023.
(In response to this post by HokieJay)
1y
I think the consensus on this board is that conference titles and dual wins don't matter to recruits, but do matter to fans, and I think there's a lot of truth to that. Even if the 'hardcore' fans care almost exclusively about nationals, I think casual fans are drawn in by high-profile dual wins and conference championships, and those casual fans become 'hardcore' over time. And we need to be steadily drawing in more casual fans over time to elevate the program as a whole - through attendance at home events and donations for SERTC / NIL, which definitely matter a lot to recruits.
Cases in point: As a fan, I think I was just as excited when Zach Epperly pinned Mark Martin to win the Ohio State dual in 2014, or when Sam Latona scored 4 points on Camacho in the final 3 seconds of the match to win the NC State dual in 2021, as I was when Caleb Henson boat-raced Austin Gomez for the national title last March. All of those things motivate me as a fan to attend events and give to the program.
So, while I agree that results at nationals matter much more than individual duals or conference tourneys, I think it's short-sighted to suggest that duals and conference titles aren't important to the big picture (which seems to be what some contributors to this thread are suggesting).
(In response to this post by HokieJay)
1y
And mostly sums up my thoughts better than I've articulated them.
(In response to this post by samistone)
1y
As a spectator the best wrestling experiences I have had were great duals at the HS and college level. And dramatic dual wins sure have the teammates jumping up and down.
(In response to this post by Hikinghokie)
R
Rokie08
1y
They are looking at which team can get them to their individual goals. NCAA’s is all that matters.
(In response to this post by HokieJay)
1y
** Edited by HokieJay at 1/14/2025, 8:42:05 PM
(In response to this post by Rokie08)
H
hokieCT
1y
The competition in the league has elevated in the last decade. I'd rather have guys with natty champ and AA goals than winning a conference championship in a 7 team league.
(In response to this post by HokieJay)
1y
Correct me if wrong!
(In response to this post by hokieCT)
1y
Penn State literally won nationals a couple years ago, but lost Big 10s. ACC tournament with six teams has such ridiculous scoring, that it is better to be the 3 seed than the 1 seed. We’ll see if it is better with 7 teams, but I doubt it.
Ask high school wrestlers who won ACCs and who won the Tech/NC State dual and I bet 99% wouldn’t have a clue. Ask them who has the most recent champ and 99% would say Caleb. I know it is hard to fathom as a fan, but that is what they care about. We didn’t get Ferrari or Bassett on campus because of an ACC dual or conference championship. They visited because of Mekhi and Caleb.
(In response to this post by HokieJay)
1y
We would have had to have won one recently for that to be the reason.
They weren't here just because of Mekhi or Henson either. There are a ton of factors that go into recruiting and the overall perception of our program.
And it's not just about recruiting!! Even if recruits cared absolutely zilch about the ACC tournament, and I agree it's not a huge factor, the game isn't to get the best recruits. The whole point of getting the badass recruits is to win. That includes national titles and AA honors, but also conference titles and big duals. And that's how the best wrestlers think too. Henson was pissed about his loss in the ACC finals, and Starocci nearly quit when Cael wouldn't let him go at the conference championship.
(In response to this post by TartanHokie)
1y
Michigan just lost to unranked Maryland on the same night. With all their starters (since Ragusin is out for the year). Tech lost to UNC with 2 backups and TJ basically pinning himself against a guy he beat last year.
I just don’t think the sky is falling.
(In response to this post by Hikinghokie)
1y
I have a ton of confidence that Robie and Frayer will get our guys prepared for the rest of the duals and the post season.
I just hate that the narrative on here has shifted for some from "losing sucks, let's get them back at nationals" to "losing dorsn't matter, I don't care if they beat us as long as we outplace them at nationals."
It seems just as dishonest as NC State fans acting like they don't care that we outperform them at nationals.
(In response to this post by TartanHokie)
1y
I think context matters. If that had been our full starting lineup, I would be concerned. The only match that really bothered me was TJ. And that is just because I think he is a better wrestler than he has shown this year. Hoping he is able to turn it around.
Wolak lost to a former teammate who is very familiar with him. And Eddie lost in OT to a ranked kid in a one takedown match. We had a backup at 133 take a ranked kid to OT and McNeil is just really good and I never expected that match to go well.
But, I never want Tech to lose to NC State in a dual.
(In response to this post by Hikinghokie)
1y
Ask the recruits who visit NCSU and see those conference championship banners: "Did you notice them?" Yeah, they did. Then ask yourself "How many ACC Championships did VT win during the last 5 years?". When someone says "None in wrestling, VT's most highly ranked program", feel that burn. Feel it. Dresser's teams won the ACC every year from 2013-2018, six straight years. This used to be our conference. You talk like we gave it to NCSU because we focus on NCAA tourney points. Bull****, they took it away from us.
(In response to this post by TartanHokie)
1y
Free acc championship t shirt for AA status in a heartbeat.
The angst over “our wrestlers should cry when we lose and acc match or the acc championship” is beyond silly. And you know why - the acc isn’t a very good wrestling conference because Duke is the fifth best team. And they blow and have no commitment to the sport. So it’s a four team conference. So saying you are the best of four decent teams is meaningless.
Maybe the next time we win the dual acc title or the acc tourney championship you can invest in some t shirts and sell them to all our fans, wrestlers and recruits who are just dying for that acc championship gear. I bet you sell less than 5 because that’s about how many people really care.
I’ve have never anyone at the ncaa tournament wearing any gear for their team that mentions a conference championship, acc or other.
** Edited by GreenvilleVT at 1/16/2025, 6:53:39 AM
(In response to this post by HokieJay)
1y
If I understand you correctly, because the BIG is a great wrestling conference, those teams should care more about winning that tournament?
(In response to this post by GreenvilleVT)
1y
Wearing a shirt, hat or other apparel item staying the team they support won a conference tourney or conference dual championship. If a shirt was made it would sell so badly that Kenyan kids would receive them in aid packages. Maybe that’s why I’ve never seen one. Maybe the Kenyon kids can tell you who won anything conference related in wrestling. But anyone in the US probably has Google it because no one who has wrestled or followed wrestling for years is confused about the lack of importance or anything other than what happens at nationals.
(In response to this post by HokieJay)
1y
Report back on how often and how high on the list "team college conference championship" comes up vs. a slew of individual accomplishments that have zero to do with winning one's conference...and are much more highly correlated with performance on the big stage at the nat'l championship.
(In response to this post by HokieJay)
1y
(In response to this post by UpperQuad)
1y
Jared Haught in MechE, the Stanford grad transfer in CS, Sam Latona in Pamplin
(In response to this post by TartanHokie)
1y
I would simply point to VT’s banners with Mekhi Lewis’s and Caleb Henson’s names on them as well as Mekhi’s and Bryce’s junior worlds medals and say this is where you’ll reach your goals. Then I’d walk away. No burn felt.
(In response to this post by HokieJay)
1y
championships but no national championship? Proves the ACC record doesn’t mean that much.
(In response to this post by HokieJay)
1y
Admittedly in a year where we had the dual title, but **** the bed at the ACC tournament. But Dressers teams were successful at ACCs and Nationals.
It is worth saying that NC State wasn't what they have become for most of Dresser's tenure here.
(In response to this post by ChEHokie78)
1y
If you care about the ACC championship as a fan, great. No one in the wrestling community, recruits included care. Vt has had some of its best recruiting classes these past two years; even after not winning the championship. People do care about where you finish at nationals, where we dominate NC State.
(In response to this post by HokieJay)
1y
Nationals is the most important, but I want to win the ACC too, and so does our team, and so do our recruits. I prefer our results over NC State's in recent years, but it doesn't have to be one or the other. Let's go win ACCs and still beat them at nationals!
(In response to this post by Hokie havoc)
1y
Recruits do not care about the ACC championship. If you care about winning it fine, but stop trying to enhance its importance to everyone else.
(In response to this post by Hikinghokie)
1y
We've beat VT for this many straight years?
And obviously we need recruits for future success, but we recruit guys so we can win. We don't win just because it helps recruit. Winning is the whole point though. And that includes the ACC championship.
(In response to this post by Hokie havoc)
1y
Judging by our last 2 recruiting classes the ACC champion ship has 0 impact on the athlete's recruitment. Things are different then when I was recruited to college wrestling but kids care mainly 3 things. Money, developing into an All-American, and the SERTC program developing freestyle wrestling (olympic wrestling). The ACC championship is utterly meaningless to recruits (especially elite). If you disagree, great, your entitled to your opinion. However, no one in the wrestling community cares about the ACC championship.
(In response to this post by Hikinghokie)
1y
For example, Vincenzo Joseph’s first three years at Penn State, he didn’t win the big ten conference championships. But he did win two natty titles and finished second the third year (courtesy of Mr. Lewis).
I can’t speak for him but I highly doubt he’d trade one of those natty titles for a big ten championship title.
The NCAA tournament is the coaches and wrestlers main goal from the first day of practice until seasons end. Then it’s wash, rinse and repeat
(In response to this post by TartanHokie)
They aren't mutually exclusive... the best programs are prepared to succeed
at both/all of the events
(In response to this post by TartanHokie)
1y
Penn state lost multiple big ten championships to Iowa. However, they ended up winning the national championship the same years.
(In response to this post by Palmetto Hokie)
Sure, but they were prepared and competed... and Iowa is not the Tarholes
(In response to this post by Hokie havoc)
1y
My point was to inform you that championship or better teams lose to inferior teams in duals and other tournaments all the time. There is a negative stigma attached to coaches that focus on duals (dual teams). There are less teams like this because the main thought now is developing wrestlers for the end of year tournament.
(In response to this post by Palmetto Hokie)
1y
Only VT, Cornell, PSU and maybe the oranges have at least 3 AA’s for 10+ consecutive years.
Obviously no banners for that accolade but recruits know that and wrestlers’ goals aren’t likely team conference titles.
(In response to this post by HokieJay)
1y
Don't think Arrington will ever be at 149 again. He's better than Ed Scott, but I don't see them benching their AA senior. I think Jack-Latona would be a really close matchup personally.
In terms of the dual, this should be our year, but there are definitely some things not trending our way. I feel super confident at 141, 149 and 197, and think we have bonus opportunities at all 3. Feel great about the way Raf and Mullen and Eddie are wrestling, but they have really tough dudes opposite them.
Imo, if we're healthy and our guys come to wrestle, we win. But a UNC type performance could easily go NC State's way.
(In response to this post by TheFacts)
N
Nafeikoh
1y
Is we don't sit anyone for that unless we absolutely have to. Typically most of our starters are there if they're physically able to be. Everyone knows what's at stake and wants it bad.
(In response to this post by Hikinghokie)
1y
His physical and technical skills are top level but his composure against a top ranked foe in a hostile environment is what impressed me the most.
Eddie will have his hands full
(In response to this post by Hokie90_CA)
J
Jmeck77
1y
They have it at 19-12 currently. That's including a weird Mullen over Trumble result, so I'll say 16-15. NCST pulling the redshirt on Ryan Jack would make it even closer and probably flip it to NCST being favored. We have bonus possibilities at 141 (without Jack), 149, and 197. NCST has bonus possibilities at 125 (Robinson is that good), 157 (Ed Scott can still pin anybody), and 285. If Trumble can almost turn Hendrickson he can turn Jimmy. A healthy McGonagle with Wolak and TJ rounding into form would obviously help quite a bit.
(In response to this post by Hokie90_CA)
1y
I think it’s going to be a dogfight that will come down to bonus points
I do think we can collect bonus at 197, 147 and I think Hip handles Ed Scott
But they have their chances at Bonus also. Arrington or Jack pulling the redshirt would put it in NCS favor.
(In response to this post by HokieJay)