Some interesting comments about Duke and Clemson softball...
and how quickly they both built their programs. Both ADs credit hiring the right coaches to build the programs but these comments about Clemson caught my eye:
"Clemson’s season tickets for its first season sold out within a week. Neff (the Athletic Director) says his department already is working on expanding Clemson’s stadium; the Tigers have 1,000 fixed seats and a berm in the outfield that fans can sit on. They already have doubled the berm seating and are “about a year away” from adding approximately 600 fixed seats to the stadium.
"That is a significant data point to Clemson, even for a sport that isn’t yet breaking even due to its associated costs, such as coaching salaries, scholarships, facilities and travel. But it explains why it makes good business sense to invest in a sport like this, one that has attracted and retained fan interest locally and nationally."
“The revenue generated has tripled — far exceeded — what our original estimates were,” Neff said. “It’s significantly more than we anticipated, which has shifted our mindset a little bit. As we continue to invest in that sport, the revenue associated with it is part of running the department."
100 Replies
3y
and is really dumb to ignore as a source of income.
(In response to this post by VTChip)
3y
Meaning VT baseball as a minor league team/experience
(In response to this post by ancient alien 2018)
3y
(In response to this post by Will Stewart)
3y
I like Whit the person but don’t like Whit the AD
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saret
3y
AthDep CFO, there is no one to advise.
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3y
dingers.
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Hokie PE
3y
(In response to this post by VTChip)
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RJHokie
3y
by not charging admission for softball, soccer, volleyball and non conference baseball games.
(In response to this post by Hokie PE)
It is beyond dumb as a 50 year plus corporate leader
You always max revenue and margin and control costs no matter the venue or mission… shocked at WB over this lack of business savvy
(In response to this post by RJHokie)
3y
Meanwhile people think nothing of paying money to go to high school games.
(In response to this post by RJHokie)
3y
and many make a point of buying some kind of concession to also help out the cause.
(In response to this post by UpperQuad)
3y
There are additional costs, printing or distribution, personnel to collect. Many factors to consider that lot of people don’t have info about. HC is not as stupid as some claim. They have a lot more info than most.
(In response to this post by laphroaig)
3y
But we would still profits.
You don’t have to print nowadays. Tickets are electronic.
(In response to this post by Vidi Vici Veni)
3y
them to do more of what they already do. Not asking for something for nothing, we're willing to pay.
Here - take my money! With softball the answer is NO!
(In response to this post by Vidi Vici Veni)
3y
at the doors checking bags, so minimal additional staffing is required. You just need someone to spend about a day coding the tickets into the system at the beginning of the season once the schedule is set. They already have the system set up for basketball. Let kids and students in for free.
(In response to this post by Vidi Vici Veni)
3y
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3y
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saret
3y
negotiating skills.🤣
(In response to this post by RJHokie)
3y
This post by Brewing_Hokie removed by Tech Sideline admin
3y
This post by NokieHokie removed by Tech Sideline admin
3y
yet does have a clue on how to earn "extra money" by making common sense decisions !
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3y
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Mercury
3y
IN the Southeast Soft ball is an it thing, like their cousins throughout SC TENN and GA... while VT and more mid atlantic teams, its a wonderful sports, but fans have alot more balance of things to do in the spring....
(In response to this post by VTChip)
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2hhoop3
3y
impacts spring bat sports to a certain degree north of the Mason Dixon line but, your contention that it is a regional thing and Mid-Atlantic "fans have a lot more balance of things to do in the spring..." is another of your misguided(to be charitable) takes.
(In response to this post by Mercury)
3y
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3y
I’m with you in a general sense and we would all love to see a filled, 5,000seat TSP with all the bells and whistles.
Do we need to capitalize on recent success - absolutely. Are we at risk of falling if we stand still - probably.
Just pointing out that, in my opinion, Whit and co. have provided softball well more than nothing. I join everyone else in hoping that much more is to come!
** Edited by VTurficus at 5/29/2023, 5:22:26 PM
(In response to this post by william floyd)
3y
Inefficient. Every great facility I've found from in state peers uva, Liberty, and conference Clemson, FSU, Duke, and teams in our region or we've played nationally ike Tennessee, Florida, Bama, Missouri, KY - all their facilities and offices, locker rooms, meeting, etc...are part of the overall softball parks. TSP could have and probably should have been designed in this manner.
(In response to this post by VTurficus)
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RJHokie
3y
TSP was built back in 96-97 and at the time was a fairly nice facility, and centrally located. Over the years they added seating and a few other enhancements like the current scoreboard which initially cost around $450k. Now that the program is consistently fielding really good teams and regularly making NCAA tournament appearances, it’s starting to show its age. To expand the facility in its current location is somewhat problematic with limited space available for expansion projects which could include locker rooms, luxury boxes and seats, and a canopy.
It all comes down to outreach and fundraising. Chip has done a great job spearheading the fundraising for operational items, but capital projects are a different animal.
** Edited by RJHokie at 5/29/2023, 7:22:00 PM
** Edited by RJHokie at 5/29/2023, 7:32:44 PM
(In response to this post by 91HokieBob)
3y
When has the administration been forward thinking?
(In response to this post by 91HokieBob)
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2hhoop3
3y
perfect or that there might have not been things that could and should have been differently, particularly with the benefit of hindsight. However, the standard default here seems to be to criticize why things were not done differently without giving full consideration to possible space constraints, timing of construction and disruption to ongoing athletic plant operations, other external factors( Stadium Woods anybody?), and the overall shift in scope and reach of VT as a school and its athletic operations.
Just my opinion but, had VT had a crystal ball in the1950s and 1960s to see its shift from a small, largely male independent military school to a multidisciplinary university with enrollment about 8 times greater than when they started and an athletic program with a substantial number of additional sports facilities master plans may have been crafted differently. As it is, some credit must be given, in my opinion, to a tightly connected athletic complex that has been adapted to substantially changing conditions. Moreover, present planning, at least to some extent, is affected by existing land constraints and, likely even more, by the uncertainties, both competitively and financially, of the existing collegiate athletic landscape. I would love to see more in the way of facilities and planning but, I would not want VT strangled by debt like some schools and unable to fund competitive on field operations.
(In response to this post by Atlee Hokie)
3y
He changed VPI into VPI&SU. Apparently there were no more visionaries to follow him.
And talk about waisted opportunities. Go to the national championship game after the 1999 season, and then not capitalize by developing a VT version of IPTAY. Instead they just comitized seating. They definitely got the fan base used to giving based on what tickets they wanted.
And how does anyone defend Whit for not naming for years, a CFO for a 120 million dollar budget organization.
How does anyone defend Whit for not naming a new head of the Hokie Club?
(In response to this post by 2hhoop3)
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2hhoop3
3y
or at least I thought I was, to the construction and the way the physical plant has grown over the years. Even Dr. Hahn with his vision likely didn't contemplate that independent VPI&SU would rise to the athletic position it has today. None of what I said was a defense of Whit's personnel moves and I have posted before that the 1999 early 2000 football rise was an opportunity not fully capitalized upon. I also realize that as we age we all see the length of the road ahead shortening and it is a natural tendency to want as much as possible in the time left.
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3y
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3y
at the gate and moreso to pre-sell season tickets. There's is never a bad time.
(In response to this post by 2hhoop3)
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2hhoop3
3y
in its entirety. The timing I refer to is largely construction and financing related. For example, the kids in Olympic Sports at UVA may like the new digs when complete but, the pride they get as an alum may not be seen as a fair trade-off for eight years in a trailer. I think VT has done a solid job with things like that to minimize in season or multi-year disruptions.
(In response to this post by laphroaig)
3y
2025. I believe they moved into trailers last year 2022 so 4 years tops at most operating out of trailers. And who cares? It's PROGRESS!
(In response to this post by 2hhoop3)
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2hhoop3
3y
with Lars Tiffany talking about being in the trailers for eight years was where I got that number. Whether it is 4 or 8 or some other number the point was VT has done most of its projects with minimal in season or multi-year disruptions.
I realize facilities is your hill to die on. I also acknowledge that you provide good info on the competition. However, I do believe a complete take should acknowledge other factors such as land constraints, funding philosophies, construction approaches, etc. as to why VT may differ from others including UVA, Clemson, LU, etc..
(In response to this post by 91HokieBob)
3y
10 win seasons in football. Same thing happening with softball. Sloooooowwwww reaction and little indication of forward planning/thinking. POINT 1% to fund a needed new staff position and the AD plays budget roulette with Coach Pete. TSP needs serious improvement and the proof is just comparing in state let alone to Clemson, FSU...And this for a 4 straight seasons to Regionals, 2 Super Regional Finals, and an ACC Championship! Shelve the Cassell reno and put $20M into TSP and softball facilities, staff. They've earned it!
(In response to this post by william floyd)
3y
Virginia Tech football lost the opportunity to be something special nationally when the 1999 season passed, and Tech remained in the same place as prior to Michael Vick
Football started fading when Beamer stayed too many years after the program began to slide, and has continued to slide into fourth place in the state of Virginia. ODU, JMU, and Liberty reminds people of that almost annually.
My years of following Virginia Tech football has ended. There was some interest when Justin Fuente was the coach, but it ended when he was fired. He had his problems, but the athletic department had problems also contributing to the demise of football.
Men's programs at Virginia Tech are just treading water, and will never be a nationally big-time program.
That brings us to the women's sports. Softball and basketball have a chance to be successful nationally, but need more support from the athletic department. Softball is my concern, and if the athletic department doesn't do more for the softball program, it will be very difficult for the program to advance to greater heights, and maybe remain where the program is today.
Want the most recent example of the athletic department being incompetent? There have been no upgrades to the Tech Softball Park, and now the new position for the softball program having to be funded by softball supporters.
Soon, people may have to start looking at the athletic director, and ask questions about the years remaining on his contract.
It is not all the fault of the athletic department. It did not help when the former dud commissioner of the conference let other conferences pass the conference by with television deals that left the ACC in a position of never being able to catch up to those conferences financially.
Softball has my full support, but it would be nice if the softball program had some support from the athletic department.
(In response to this post by 91HokieBob)
3y
last part on the back. Bet you could sell more than a few.
Just make sure you have XXXL.
(In response to this post by william floyd)
3y
as NIL. Make it an annual thing.
(In response to this post by laphroaig)
3y
In state and out of state softball facilities to VT. Will post them soon; I included the Clemson slide in a post last week. They're on my laptop and can't post right now. Bottom line: if the VT AD, Ath Dept, HC, and university don't do something big (or impactful) soon for softball, it will lose all momentum Coach Pete has built along with some pretty fabulous recruiting. Time waits for no man and it's ticking.
(In response to this post by william floyd)
Except our style is to wait until we have been passed and then play catchup
(In response to this post by 91HokieBob)
3y
Yay Us! :) Here's my example from the TSP write up on HokieSports where we celebrate our high school level pre-fab press boxes LOL! Seems like the VT program and Fans have earned better?
"Tech Softball Park also includes amenities for working press and game operations. At the top of the bleachers are three prefabricated, 8-by-18 foot press boxes. Complete with power and phone lines, they accommodate all the needs of the media. The press boxes also have air conditioning and heat, as well as Ethernet cable and wireless connections, which allow for live stats and broadcasts of every home game on Tech’s official Web site, hokiesports.com.
On top of the main press box is a camera platform, allowing for video by either team, as well as media covering the event. Two additional press boxes were added at the top of the bleachers during the last phase of renovation, tripling the current capacity."
(In response to this post by vatechcowpatty)
3y
2011. That's an ETERNITY in major P5 sports, especially for a program that has gained status as a national power over the last 4 years. If the VT AD, Ath Dept, Hokie Club, and VT Admin don't do something impactful to bolster that success, then odds of VT softball going the way of the dodo bird or VT football are pretty high. If what @Nortaz Hokie said about recruits asking about TSP, it's already starting.
Link:
TSP
(In response to this post by william floyd)
3y
(In response to this post by 91HokieBob)
3y
The outfield bleachers got removed.
(In response to this post by UpperQuad)
3y
Clemson facilities to TSP.
(In response to this post by 91HokieBob)
The press boxes are D-2 level at best.
(In response to this post by william floyd)
3y
S&C, locker rooms, team rooms and rehab etc.. are part of the softball field complex. Small buildings can be seen either on 1st or 3rd base lines housing them and Clemson and hoova even include areas under the stands. Efficient, all part of the complex making easier on coaches, athletes and support staff.
This is the kind of stuff VT is competing and recruiting against for elite. Just like football but with a better puncher's chance if we stay relevant and with peers.
** Edited by 91HokieBob at 5/29/2023, 6:30:41 PM
(In response to this post by william floyd)
3y
that the only team in this discussion that has been to the college softball world series is Virginia Tech....
(In response to this post by 91HokieBob)
3y
down #1 seed UCLA in their regional, Clemson had OU on the ropes, and hoova whether we like it or not was a lot improved this year. The bigger picture is if we want to truly sustain VT softball success and keep winning the ACC or whatever conference with a shot at going to the WCWS, TSP needs a lotta love to compete. If not, well maybe it's another 10+ years or more until VT sees the World Series. FSU and UTK are great measuring sticks also since we play them pretty much every year. Both are in the WCWS and invested in their facilities. I'll post on them soon...
(In response to this post by 94HokieME)
Has Pete D'Amour publicly voiced any concerns about TSP renovations?
(In response to this post by 91HokieBob)
3y
That is for private conversations. Should we ever hear that from Coach Pete, it would be when he left for another job, do to non support from the current AD.
(In response to this post by Old Line Hokie)
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saret
3y
(In response to this post by Old Line Hokie)
3y
comparisons and conversations here over the past several years, there seems to be plenty concern.
(In response to this post by Old Line Hokie)
3y
several have asked already.
(In response to this post by 91HokieBob)
Tech added seating on the 3B/LF side. ;)
(In response to this post by william floyd)
3y
were 6 or 7. A few years from now we'll be able to say "before some of our players were born".
(In response to this post by 91HokieBob)
3y
(In response to this post by laphroaig)
3y
more succinct and relatable than pure history and facts of the TSP.
(In response to this post by laphroaig)
Almost forgot about the Cassell Coliseum renovations...
Not much noise on that even though the plan was to have Cassell completely renovated by 2025-2026. With inflation and supply chain issues, maybe that project will be a few years further up the road? I can't see TSP being renovated before Cassell. I doubt there's any money in the budget for that considering all the campus buildings and laboratories being built in the north end of campus and the VTCC upper quad. After those buildings are completed, Randolph Hall is being demolished and being replaced with the new Mitchell Hall. Then Tech will demolish Slusher Tower and wing and eventually Owen's Hall with new buildings. Plus the new dorms will be built on the golf course, so I have no clue where the money will come from to renovate TSP in the near future (next 5-10 years).
** Edited by Old Line Hokie at 5/29/2023, 3:35:24 PM
(In response to this post by 91HokieBob)
3y
(In response to this post by Old Line Hokie)
Even if they are too lazy to execute a plan for season tickets they could
sell reserved seats. I would gladly pay for a couple of seats in the stadium to ensure that I have somewhere to consistently sit for every home game. There are already attendants in the stadium that could manage the *reserved section* and they wouldn’t have to have ticket takers per se’.
(In response to this post by laphroaig)
3y
... have nothing to do with each other, right?
Athletic facilities must be funded through athletics revenue, debt, and fundraising, and are completely independent of what's going on with construction elsewhere on campus.
** Edited by Will Stewart at 5/29/2023, 9:41:59 PM
(In response to this post by Old Line Hokie)
Thanks, No I didn't. I'm just a simple man living in a simple land.
(In response to this post by Will Stewart)
3y
I've got a lot of respect for you as a poster, so I figured you would know that.
Carry on!
(In response to this post by Old Line Hokie)
Thanks! I for some reason...
only thought football had that deal and definitely thought Olympic sports facilities like Thompson Field and TSP were funded by the university. Who makes deals with sponsors like Atlantic Union Bank? Why doesn't TSP have a sponsor that can help fund the program?
Question: Is the athletic funding separate only in some states like Virginia or in all 50 states?
(In response to this post by Will Stewart)
I beleive they (so I've read on this very board), Whit and the HC have
approached local sponsors for TSP, but have been unsuccessful in landing a deal. As I remember the thread, it was stated there are only so many local businesses that can be approached that could pony up the money (almost $1M) that is needed to renovate the stadium.
** Edited by BackInTheBurg at 5/30/2023, 3:52:30 PM
(In response to this post by Old Line Hokie)
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3y
(In response to this post by Will Stewart)
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RJHokie
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a good thing. The academic buildings, dorms, etc. are funded by a combination of state funds and guaranteed debt, private contributions and revenue debt (dorms). Athletics facilities are paid for through athletic revenues, private contributions and revenue debt. The State imposes a debt limit that includes both academic and athletic debt.
Wrt Slusher Hall I recently read where they are doing significant repairs on that structure so I doubt tearing it down and reconstructing it is in the near future.
(In response to this post by Old Line Hokie)
True about Slusher. Tech doesn't have the funding.
I seriously doubt Tech will build all those buildings by 2047. Tough times ahead that most have never experienced in their life times.
(In response to this post by RJHokie)
3y
that Whit has just said the Cassell project is still waiting on a couple of seven figure donors to get the thing kick started. If the Cassell project loses steam then there is a possibility that the TSP project could occur first. I don't know any timelines of course but the Cassell project looks stalled.
(In response to this post by Old Line Hokie)
3y
to strike while hot. Or at minimum start the conversations and process especially with the recruiting Pete followed up with. This year was still good IMO making the Regional Final. Pitching and needing the new Staff Analytics/Development position identified. Unfortunately, Chip and TSL grass roots are the ones immediately trying to help fund the staff position.
I still revert to Master Athletic District Planning. What is the VT holistic plan for the district? Have they made assumptions, looked at overall space and what COULD be built, repurposed, upgraded 5, 10, 20 years down the road? Is it integrated into RFE Campaign or maybe need to roll out an Athletic Capital Projects Campaign? Just brainstorming...
Thing is, if we think football gap is bad, let Olympic Sports or a program like Softball which is HOT over the last 4 years start losing ground then we're realllyyyy in trouble.
(In response to this post by Atlee Hokie)
3y
trust Whit. He's the best we can do... so suck it up, buttercup! :)
(In response to this post by 91HokieBob)
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RJHokie
3y
at this point.
(In response to this post by IB4TECH)
3y
Link:
Bring out ya dead!
(In response to this post by RJHokie)