Controversial opinion: but I appreciate what FSU is doing.
There are two schools that appear to have a lock, stand-alone invite to one or both of the P2, That is UNC (SEC and B1G), and FSU (B1G). Everyone else without an assured landing spot, including Clemson, can't just put themselves out there like FSU is doing. And WRT UNC, I think they've seen the ACC as their own fiefdom for the better part of a century--so they aren't necessarily in a hurry to shut it all down.
In just the last month, FSU exposed ESPN/SEC/CFP Cartel (and for a bonus, gotten under the skin of crybaby Kirk Herbstreit), exposed the clandestine and nefarious agreements that ACC brass has with ESPN (the 2027 bombshell? WTF?), and basically remind the ACC brethren of the failures and nepotism of the Swofford years.
I think many of us have been measured in our realization that the ACC needs to be blown up. But perhaps sooner might be better than later. I for one am sick of the ACC's incompetence and passivity. Zero passion from Phillips on FSU being left out. But once FSU was ready to file suit in FL, he was sure to beat them to the punch by filing in NC. This, followed by drivel about non-rev national championships and academics.
Yeah. Deal me out on the ACC. Would be nice if the court rules that everything after 2027 is null and void. And between now and then, we can all put our cards on the table and figure out who is going where and when and with whom, and who is staying. And Notre Dame can finally decide what it wants to do as well.
I kinda see FSU as a Julian Assange type figure. Kinda shady and sinister, but also making the powers that be from all sides feel uncomfortable. But after consideration, you are grateful for the most part for the things he has exposed.
BTW, Merry Christmas Eve to all the Hokies out there, and to all the great posters from other schools that have made their way to our Conference Realignment Board. I appreciate you all.
** Edited by Maroon Baboon at 12/24/2023, 2:25:29 AM
49 Replies
Nice Julian Assange analogy there...
It's gone from Free Shoes to Free Florida State.
(In response to this post by Maroon Baboon)
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2hhoop3
2y
judgement on either side until their claims are tested and adjudicated in the courts. We will see what is true, or at least believable by the courts, and then hopefully be able to determine whether one or BOTH parties are not what they represented themselves as. Everybody, except the lawyers, likely lose in the end, just some more than others.
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TerryD
2y
Football Independence and its other sports somewhere.
That has been their decision since....forever.
It has never waived on that.
(In response to this post by Maroon Baboon)
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Stech
2y
Championship playoffs for tier 1, they will join. So if those two break off for football and basketball, look out. If not, they stay independent.
I guess a huge money difference could do it, but probably not, it’s access to tier 1 National Championships in football, and to much lesser degree basketball.
(In response to this post by TerryD)
That may be good news for a school like GA Tech...
if Notre Dame holds onto its football independence because there are many (writers, talkingheads and posters) who assume Notre Dame will do a 180 on their football independence stance when the Big Ten and SEC are in their final rounds of expansion and there are only a few openings remaining. The reason I mention Georgia Tech is because some say the Big Ten will end expansion at 24 (four 6-team pods/divisions) and Notre Dame would take their spot (the Big Ten has always entertained the idea of having a member in Atlanta, the heart of SEC country). I still feel that the Big Ten would still add Notre Dame even if they said they were done with expansion. I guess Notre Dame's only issue as a football independent will be what conference they'd play all their other sports in. It's very likely Notre Dame would just remain in the watered-down ACC with Wake, BC, Duke, .... or rejoin the Big East.
(In response to this post by TerryD)
2y
for the B1G. 3 AAU schools all connected by state lines and gives them TJ’s university, Tar Heel basketball lore and the city of Atlanta as you said. Of course, most conferences would jump on ND right away if they were looking but they say they want to remain independent. I sure hope TerryD is right because I would love to see ND left out of the P2 equation. That said, my fear is our beloved Tech being left out of the equation and getting stuck in another lesser conference with a partial member ND. If Tech gets left out, I hope we end up somewhere ND isn’t.
(In response to this post by Old Line Hokie)
2y
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2y
FSU mad a lot of enemies in the ACC leadership team.
(In response to this post by Maroon Baboon)
2y
as a result of all this then I'd appreciate it too. But I think the current configuration of the ACC is way better situation for VT than the massively bloated B12 where they're likely to end up.
(In response to this post by Maroon Baboon)
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Hokie83
2y
if and how it plays out...
(In response to this post by HokieNoVA)
2y
If the P2 ends up at 40 teams, it's very unlikely VT is in.
If the P2 ends up at 44 teams (I go in increments of 4), I like VT's chances.
If the P2 ends up at 48, pfffft, the Hokies are in.
That's Captain Obvious territory, but I state it because I think people get caught up in the details and the drama, when for me, I just cut to the chase and think of it like that.
I also don't panic about the thought of being "left out," because I think there are a lot of interesting peer schools that are going to be left out as well, and life and the games will go on.
(In response to this post by Hokie83)
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Hokester
2y
College football needs a commissioner like the NFL to bring some stability to this madness.
(In response to this post by Will Stewart)
2y
(In response to this post by Will Stewart)
2y
But if John Nash were alive, he could be having fun with this one. A true prisoner’s dilemma and a game theorist’s dream.
Right now, the P2 has 34 schools. I’m guessing (based on here say, message boards etc) the ACC needs 8 schools to leave at the same time to nullify the GoR. If this is true, then that magic number might be 42 (34 P2s + 8 ACC departures). 42 may not be a tidy number for the B1G and SEC, so maybe they drop to 40 screwing over 2 ACC schools. Or maybe they up it to 44 and invite 8 ACC schools plus Stanford and Cal. Or maybe some Big 12 schools throw a wrench in all of this and only 3 or 4 ACC schools get invited.
Normally a prisoner’s dilemma has 2 entities pitted against one another trying to appeal to their dominant strategies. But in this case there are many (ESPN, FSN, B1G, SEC, FSU and probably 7 other ACC schools). I’m sure ND is playing puppet master with the ACC right now trying to halt a mass exodus that might muddy up their perfect little safe harbor in the ACC for all other sports minus hockey and football. So I can’t agree or disagree because nobody can know. And who can trust who in a prisoner’s dilemma like this one? Can Tech trust UVa? Most likely. Can Tech trust those Carolinians? Ehhhh…. not real comfortable there. Can Tech trust FSU? Hell no ha ha ha. But UVa might trust UNC and vice versa. Can ND wreck this whole process? Absolutely they can.
I want to agree with you that Tech won’t be left out at 44 or 48, but I’m not that confident in university athletic directors right now. I’m not sure commercials showing a rabid fan base equals enough appeal to the P2 as much as other things like AAU status, historical pedigree or schools who have proven nationals championship records. But I don’t want to disagree either because Tech is more deserving than a lot of schools on the list if we’re talking about generating football revenue (which is really the name of the game).
(In response to this post by Will Stewart)
11-1 with a conference championship feels good even without cfp bid.
(In response to this post by Will Stewart)
2y
some hybrid. At the end of the day, we are certainly of the top 40-45 programs in the country
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Marooned
2y
payout. We represent new territory for either conference. So if we increase the payout, I like our odds. What contributes to that is ratings and consistent bowl and tournament appearances. What drives ratings is winning and visibility. Winning involves finding the right leadership (optimistic there) and developing a unified culture of high expectations that attracts the best possible talent. Visibility involves playing on the biggest stages regularly and marketing aggressively.
I don’t worry either, Will. However, it would be disgusting if we were left behind while UNC and UVa got admitted. Been there, done that.
(In response to this post by Will Stewart)
2y
I asked this question of the board earlier this year, and got very little response.
The reason why I asked was because I was kinda hoping that a solid nationwide (lots of states for TV revenue) football conference would form with schools such as UW, UO, Colorado, Kansas State, Arizona State, Oklahoma State, Utah and possibly VT and other football minded ACC schools after UT, OU, USC and UCLA were taken by the P2.
I wouldn't mind being in such a conference made up of solid football programs with few blue bloods, but no dead weight. It could have been a nice alternative to the P2, which will have nearly all the blue bloods, but with its share of dead weight.
Looks like FSU will join UW and UO as no longer available though.
And as a side note, I think a lot of college football fans have an inflated view of their own school's value. No one wants to get screwed, and everyone thinks they should be moving up in status.
I'm not saying I'm in a rush to go to the current Big XII, but there are schools in there I think are solid in football and academics that I wouldn't mind playing on a regular basis.
(In response to this post by Will Stewart)
Purdue, Indiana, Iowa, Minnesota, Rutgers, Maryland, Michigan st almost.
Wisconsin and nebraska would be in the neighborhood. Penn st is next step up. Ohio st and Michigan another step up.
The big ten would be a good place for Vt football but it’s no different than ACC with strong fsu and Clemson. For us to compete we need more commitment, more nil, more alumni, more support from state legislature
** Edited by proudhokie2001 at 12/24/2023, 7:20:50 PM
** Edited by proudhokie2001 at 12/24/2023, 7:21:45 PM
(In response to this post by Maroon Baboon)
2y
That is why I am not at all concerned about what happens. There will be enough schools left after finalizing the P2 to create one large, Nationwide conference. Who cares what the name of the conference turns out to be.
(In response to this post by Maroon Baboon)
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Hokie 04
2y
Texas and Oklahoma are and always have been much bigger time than us. Sure, there have been seasons where we're better, but more people come to and watch their games and each have multiple national championships.
I think FSU and Clemson are *closer* to peers, but we'd really have to have the maroon and orange glasses on to make that argument with a straight face.
(In response to this post by VT ChemE 1986)
2y
Would be SEC or BIG bound. Hence, my original statement holds.
** Edited by VT ChemE 1986 at 12/24/2023, 7:41:31 PM
(In response to this post by Hokie 04)
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VPI_1998
2y
right now I don't want them there, but I want them to play College Football at a high level. I'd like to think the 2 can co-exist but right now apparently it can't in the minds of the Cartel, just ask FSU
(In response to this post by Will Stewart)
2y
In the end, I realize getting a ticket to ride on one of them is a good thing for us. But I'm kinda turned off by what both have become. I didn't used to feel that way. I used to love the SEC and wanted VT to get an invite there in 2003. But that didn't happen.
While both the B1G and the SEC appear to have won expansionpalooza, I think both compromised their regional identity to do it, and I remain unimpressed.
(In response to this post by VPI_1998)
2y
I’m not sure how competitive we’d be, even after 4 or 5 years. I don’t want to live life as a South Carolina/Kentucky/Miss St. analog. Even with better games it might really stink.
Alternatively there are a lot of boring programs in the B1G that I would have ZERO interest in playing.
Honestly, I would be really happy with the ACC less Syracuse, BC, Duke, Wake, and not adding the western teams. That would leave us at 10 schools. Add in 5 ND games a year and you have a pretty good conference. Play a full round-robin schedule and name the champ on the field.
It would be a compelling conference and the viewership numbers for games would be pretty good.
(In response to this post by Maroon Baboon)
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VPI_1998
2y
keeping the ACC intact does - USC-E might be a good story and semi-regional rivalry, and with Beamer as coach may add to it (well, he won't be around forever at USC-E unfortunately - the lifespan of coaches there is 4-5 years) We've already had 2 border rivalries taken away because of the conference re-alignment BS, we are on the verge of losing more. VT has much more "history" with NCST and UNC than Ole Miss or Arkansas
(In response to this post by VTownie)
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saret
2y
by FSU/CFP/NCAA/ACC/realignment/consolidation/etc., I could care less. I follow VT, no matter what. Other than the amusement, all the other things are just "meh."
(In response to this post by Will Stewart)
2y
and there would no shame in that. As you said, it would be among our true peers, and a fair competition.
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VTDC
2y
Is included in those 2 conferences today. Either way VT is fine
(In response to this post by Will Stewart)
2y
That’s perfect for FSU. Does that make Notre Dame Bernie Madoff?
(In response to this post by Maroon Baboon)
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Hokie 04
2y
had some balls. Sadly, I get the feeling that the people "leading" Tech hate Tech, but are happy to collect the inflated taxpayer paycheck. Like the country, I feel Tech's most dangerous enemy is from within.
(In response to this post by Maroon Baboon)
2y
VT is doing quite fine thank you so much and if you graduated in 2004 that is 20 years in the past and VT is not the same its pushing 40,000 enrollment, massive R&D and top 50 ranking, and athletic dept that is not gauging dollars. And mention we have NOW a full breath medical R&D and medical school and building a massive campus in DMV.
That doesn't sound like its a personal dislike...
I have no respect for the WWE type of delivery and conduct of FSU. They are out of control....
but if that's your bubble ok.. live in it
(In response to this post by Hokie 04)
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Hokie 04
2y
(In response to this post by NokieHokie)
2y
(In response to this post by Hokie 04)
2y
one planet to another crazy planet known as the DMV!
(In response to this post by NokieHokie)
2y
(In response to this post by Hokie 04)
2y
Record enrollment for the Corps and massive new campus. that doesnt sound like lack of leadership commitment. really>
(In response to this post by NokieHokie)
2y
of Cadets. I didn't say they were correct or smart.
(In response to this post by DMV Gobbler)
Sheesh. Merry Christmas to you, too.
(In response to this post by Hokie 04)
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VPI_1998
2y
you describe, on some days I would like the ACC to stay together, rise to the occasion, and demonstrate that you don't have to be in the SEC or B1G to play college football at a high level. I realize what you describe is more reality and the latter idealistic, but hey, I have my days where I like to be idealistic. Today - I am feeling idealistic. Tomorrow - we shall see...
I am about to go visit my in-laws for a week and they live in Starkville, MS. The "SEC is the greatest" feeling is palpable - you can almost smell it and taste it everywhere you go. Even though MSU hasn't done much in college football historically other than exist in the SEC, the locals still puff out their chest and chant "S-E-C"! The ACC doesn't really have anything like that - not that I want that, but it's a way of life for them. Not looking down my nose, but so many of the SEC states have no pro teams, and their SEC university is all they have when it comes to sports. You can understand in a way why it means so much to them. The ACC will never have that.
** Edited by VPI_1998 at 12/24/2023, 4:39:48 AM
(In response to this post by Maroon Baboon)
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Marooned
2y
How elitist can that sound?
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Vippie1
2y
the whole rise of Southern college football is pretty much historically tied to a downtrodden region finding pride in an area where they were able to comparatively excel. And with no offense, the deepest parts of the south still find a lot of solace in that , which never shall be as emotionally important to even more border states like NC and VA, where college football fixation is limited to a niche of the population.
(In response to this post by VPI_1998)
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Marooned
2y
We identify strongly with downtrodden and disrespected.
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Hokie 04
2y
League. I could be wrong, but I suspect Alabama brags less about being in the SEC and Harvard talks about being an Ivy less. The ones who built that reputation can stand on their own. It's the hangers on who....well....hang on.
** Edited by Hokie 04 at 12/24/2023, 8:37:16 AM
(In response to this post by VPI_1998)