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JRHokie JRHokie OP
Dec 06, 2023 at 10:16 AM ET
I agree with Kelly...
Like it or Not, it makes good sense to me . And I Hope I typed this right. 76 old fingers mess up some.. But I'm sure the smart ones can get it..

54 Replies

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GobblerCE
I agree with Kelly in that someone has to get left out. I think
it should have been UM. There is no doubt that SEC is the strongest conference. M played nobody. They beat OSU, but it was close. Michigan had less offense against Iowa than FSU did in their respective conference championships. FSU was playing with their 3rd string QB. FSU beat LSU and Florida from the SEC as well. I read this in an article yesterday and think it's relevant and true. "CFP Committee chose predictive competitiveness over proven performance; subjectivity over fact. They have become a committee of prognosticators. They have abandoned their responsibility by discarding their purpose – to evaluate performance on the field."
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HokiePokie95
Was it at the beginning of the year that Bama got outplayed by 6-5 Auburn?
I have concerns that Georgia statement game was just a fluke and that there are major issues with Bama. They should have handled Auburn just as easily as Ron Mexico State if they're truly a national championship contender.
JRHokie JRHokie OP
Has any ACC Coach gone on TV...
And said anything about the selection of Bama over the Gators except their head coach?? Kelly spoke his mind and I respect him for that. Like it or not but has anyone defended the Gators on TV except the head man for the ACC.
Vienna_Hokie Vienna_Hokie
No, same week that FSU struggled to beat 5-6 FL and their backup QB
gonna cherry pick games, cherry pick the whole bunch
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crazylane
Their pedigree earns them a free pass
But from what I've seen they have declined the last couple of years. And their QB isn't nearly as good as last year. Make no mistake any one of a half dozen or more of recent great Alabama teams would have easily beaten Auburn. And would have not lost to Georgia, or Texas at home. Alabama and Georgia are still right there with the best teams in the country. Just not clearly better. ** Edited by crazylane at 12/6/2023, 12:46:09 PM
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VTBAMA
I would argue about the QB. Milroe has become a very good QB after
being benched earlier this year. He is a baller. I actually posted on this board early in the year that he just wasn't a good QB. He has improve dramatically. I would expect them to be right at the top again next year. They are a really young team. ** Edited by VTBAMA at 12/6/2023, 1:18:55 PM
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crazylane
He's gotten better
And had the tools. To me he's not nearly as good as Bryce Young now
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VTBAMA
I do agree with you that Milroe is not as good but the OP said not nearly
as good. Milroe holds the ball way to long hoping something comes open. He took a couple of big sacs against Uga that hurt. Milroe does throw a much better deep ball than Young did. Both have that ability to make a great play from disaster. We are also comparing Young as a Junior and Milroe as a Sophmore. ** Edited by VTBAMA at 12/6/2023, 1:49:03 PM
Vienna_Hokie Vienna_Hokie
Milroe also has a better, more experienced supporting cast
The rest of the offense was growing up last year, they are much better now than what Young had to play with. Also think Milroe's size is a big advantage over Young.
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VTBAMA
Burton has become a very good receiver as has Bond. I was always
worried about Young getting clobbered. Especially now with the Panthers. He is small. Milroe not so much.
Vienna_Hokie Vienna_Hokie
you're tilting at windmills, it's an ESPN/SEC conspiracy, just accept it :)
it's almost as bad here as March 2020 if you questioned whether wearing a mask was good policy.
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VTBAMA
I hear ya man! Seriously though it can be good discussion
without going off the rails like some of the post have.
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MotorCityHokie80
The logo on his sweater says it all ...
Kelly was spouting SEC conference talking points. If his team was undefeated but lost their QB late in season I doubt if he would be so poised and circumspect with his comments if his team was passed over. He would go ballistic.
Atlee Hokie Atlee Hokie
Of course he wouldn't.
The fact is the committee was going to put a SEC team in the playoff, Period! The committee would have used any excuse in order to "justify" a SEC team.
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marcbvtgm
That’s 4 words I’ll never use.
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ModerateHokie
What EVIDENCE is there that FSU is not a top 4 team.
Because there is plenty of EVIDENCE that they are.
reestuart reestuart
Yep. "Eye test" is crap. This CFP was an easy one to pick. The committee
then decided to do whatever it was they wanted to do. FSU isn't as good as they were with Travis. But what if they're better than Bama? What if they play Michigan and get a couple of early turnovers and score. The thing is, they should have gotten an opportunity to show whether or not they were worthy. None of those SEC schools showed they should be ahead of FSU. ** Edited by reestuart at 12/6/2023, 11:42:18 AM
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OldRetiredHokie
UGA is going to show you in the Orange Bowl
RTFC RTFC
but that's going to include some (maybe a lot) of second stringers
apparently those games shouldn't count because the games aren't as "good"
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WholeLottaHokie
No. What matters is what you've done. Not what might or might not happen.
UGA could beat FSU senseless and it still wouldn't make a difference as to whether one or both teams deserved to be in the CFP or not. Besides, teams get blown out in the CFP games on a not infrequent basis, so it's not like even if FSU was picked and got hammered it would be some shock historically speaking.
Vienna_Hokie Vienna_Hokie
In theory, it could work against them
No one knows how good MI is, but their offense seems suspect. MI / FSU might have been a great matchup, as painful to watch as the ACC Championship, but at least a close game and AL could blow out MI. Who knows.
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crazylane
If so it will because of poor QB play
I assume you meant this. Alabama and Georgia, while capable of beating anybody, are nowhere near as good as some of their recent teams. ** Edited by crazylane at 12/6/2023, 12:50:44 PM
reestuart reestuart
As we've heard from the SEC for many years, those non CFP type bowls
don't mean anything. They've used them for years to excuse away head-scratching losses. Bama-Utah; UGA-WVU; UGA-Texas. There are others. Those games only matter when the SEC says they matter.
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HokiePokie95
Agree and it doesn't matter who wins that game(FSU winning would be ideal)
because (I think your point) the key word here is 'opportunity'. FSU at 13-0 earned a chance to in the playoffs. It's the right thing to do irrespective of how those games go. Yet the committee will say that they saved viewers from a blowout loss by a 2nd string QB........and if FSU gets crushed by UGa then this somehow validates their decision....it doesn't because FSU was still 13-0 and had earned a chance to play irrespective of how it went. They were denied for a host of misleading and crystal ball answers.....the true answer is SEC/P2, ratings, $.
reestuart reestuart
Yeah, I don't think FSU can stay within a couple of scores, but that
doesn't mean they didn't deserve the shot.
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hokietony
It apparently is also easy for you to write off the game if FSU loses.
reestuart reestuart
Sure. And that doesn't change a thing.
bigbadbird bigbadbird
Just stop keeping score of the games and pick the prettiest teams
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IV_Hokie12
"If one has to sit out, maybe it should be the one that lost their QB"
"If one has to sit out, maybe it should be one of them that lost a game."
Maroon Baboon Maroon Baboon
I wish would have compared the two teams on the field rather that give the
SEC-ESPN talking points.
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2hhoop3
What Kelly says.......
is not wrong as far as different teams but, it misses the point. To quote Nick Saban, "it is the process" and were Alabama or LSU to have received the same treatment both Saban and Kelly would have exploded and you can bet Greg Sankey would have gone nuclear. The decision made and the reason given for supporting that decision creates a myriad of problems for the process. First being that should another team's QB go down in pre-playoff practice should they be removed or replaced? They are no longer the same team. Second, if that was the committee's reason why was FSU left at 4 for several weeks? Nothing they did from an objective standpoint, no losses, warranted the drop. In former iterations, efforts were even made to lessen the impact of MOV style points which is essentially what this current decision came down to. I believe most people believe the decision came down to the SEC, and possibly rightly so, deserving a place at the playoff table and what was the least "messy" way to get there. Ultimately, what happened was the CFP met neither the objective of the four best nor the four most deserving and the process was laid bare for the sham it was and has likely been for all these years although there was not until now enough good teams and circumstances to expose it.
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saret
Hear! Hear!
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jesuisvtguy
Don't be so easily fooled... his argument has some clear bias in it...
Everything he said was truthful so "it makes good sense to me", but he chose his words carefully and omitted any discussion of the entire picture. He starts his argument that there are 5 conference champions and 4 spots, so we knew this would happen. That's clever, but sending a conference champion has never been the criteria (until it happens to be the SEC champion), and you can look at many conference champions over the years that did not make the top 4 due to their season's resume. He conveniently leaves that out. I'm not an FSU or Alabama fan, and I frankly do think Alabama is worthy of being "in the playoffs" despite their blemishes, BUT I do not think they are more worthy than FSU which is a team that didn't lose... and if the tipping point was a player's injury (which is the main argument where we distract and say "look over here"), that is a terrible precedence that allows us to introduce "the eye test" and "predictive outcomes". That's horrifying.
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XFactor11
Imagine if LSU was left out at 13-0 because they lost their QB to injury.
He’d be throwing the biggest tantrum of them all. That dude and his fake accent can kick rocks he has zero integrity. ** Edited by XFactor11 at 12/6/2023, 10:42:26 AM
Vienna_Hokie Vienna_Hokie
If an ACC 12-1 team went instead, 90% here would be defending the choice
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TOUGH TURKEY
Over a 13-0 Bama or Texas? Never happen
Since a 13-0 ACC team did not make it, I don't see your point.
Vienna_Hokie Vienna_Hokie
the point is the silliness of the "if the roles were reversed" comment
reestuart reestuart
how so? Fact is two one loss teams were picked ahead of them.
An undefeated SEC champ isn't getting left out. Just like a one loss SEC champ isn't.
Vienna_Hokie Vienna_Hokie
the post I responded to said imagine if 13-0 LSU was left out
and my response was if it was for a 12-1 ACC team, 90% here would support it, which is absolutely true. The fact that it didn't happen has nothing to do with my post.
reestuart reestuart
I doubt 90% would support that. No way to tell, but I'm not seeing it.
Vienna_Hokie Vienna_Hokie
the response to my response provides some insight
there is a large chunk of this board (football, basketball, Conf realignment and even baseball when we played TN in the fall) that has decided that all of the ACC's problems are the result of a conspiracy by ESPN and the SEC. Everything involving ESPN or the SEC is seen through that lens. The idea that maybe, just maybe, there may be another explanation such as the ACC puts out a boring product that people don't want to watch as much as what the SEC puts out, or in this case, FSU with their heisman prospect QB injured might be a risky pick for the playoff has to be attacked at all costs because it doesn't support the "fact" that the ACC is nothing but a victim of the SEC/ESPN. I believe FSU got screwed, but it doesn't mean that picking a team that is most likely better right now is not at least a viable option. Hell, during the SEC championship game people here were attacking ESPN/ABC for claiming that it would be wrong for the SEC not to be in the playoff when a CBS commentator said it and he said it was a quote from Kirby Smart, who of course would say it, then doubled down on why it didn't matter who said it because it's the way it is, refusing to even acknowledge that what they said was pure bunk. Simple fact, people will twist and bend their positions to support their biases pretty much every time. If an SEC coach complained about being 13-0 and left out, the vast majority here would attack him using whatever the argument was that caused them to be left out. Want to quibble over 90%, fine, but you know the vast majority would be doing it.
reestuart reestuart
I think it's fair to say there's a bit of an anti-SEC bias here, but OTOH,
the only reason FSU was passed was to protect ESPN's product, the CFP. This is nothing but an attempt to save viewership numbers. There is no other legit excuse for excluding an undefeated P5 team, regardless of who is or isn't playing.
Vienna_Hokie Vienna_Hokie
Of course it was, they picked AL because they are the better team now
and will make for better ratings. I would agree with you that the undefeated team should have gone, but that doesn't mean choosing AL, who is a better team right now, is not a rational and logical option. Because it is not the option you or I would choose, does not make it wrong. Take the ACC victim baggage out of the mix and most people would be able to have a rationale discussion about it.
reestuart reestuart
right. Better ratings. That's the reason. I don't like FSU at all.
I would have likely rooted against them in the CFP. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't be playing, IMO. Bama is in because they are Bama. Texas is in because they beat Bama. Neither would be in if UGA would have won on Saturday.
reestuart reestuart
Over an undefeated P5 conference champ? LOL.
SunDevilHokie SunDevilHokie
Name one undefeated conference champ that a 1 loss ACC team would jump over
I’ll wait. You shouldn’t identify an impossibility as a straw man argument ** Edited by SunDevilHokie at 12/6/2023, 12:34:01 PM
Vienna_Hokie Vienna_Hokie
since the original post was an undefeated SEC champ being left out...
thought we were playing the I'll say something silly game.
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gahokie
I doubt that.
Some here would yes, but not a majority. We Hokies made the same arguments for a title chance in 99 that the two undefeated teams should be the ones to decide the question of who's best. We were lucky that bigger name blue bloods also lost games at the end to open the door for us. We may be many things but most of us are not hypocrites. ** Edited by gahokie at 12/6/2023, 11:17:38 AM
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goodbadugly
He's not biased at all. Larger payout for the SEC and every SEC bowl
eligible team moves up a rung in bowls. And that doesn't begin to touch the relative perceptions on TV viewership, contracts, recruiting, etc. With regard to FSU vs Alabama. FSU - perfect undefeated season. Alabama - lost at home by two scores. Just 8 days prior the selection committee's decision.... With only one week to prepare, their backup QB went on the road to beat a 5-7 SEC rival by two scores. With their starting QB, Alabama needed a miracle 4th and 31 conversion to beat a 6-6 SEC rival that had been blown out by New Mexico State the week prior. So, anyone can make a guess as to who the better team is. But, while one team earned the right to prove they cannot be beaten, the other team has already proven they can be beaten. ** Edited by goodbadugly at 12/6/2023, 10:24:29 AM
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ModerateHokie
shocker. The LSU coach is supporting the SEC.
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hokietony
He's not wrong though ......
Bias aside and putting all of the SEC/ESPN conspiracy theories aside, whether you agree with it or not, I can see why FSU was left. They might not be one of the 8 best teams right now because of the QB injury. It all depends on what is important to the committee/viewer, best 4 or most deserving 4? UM and Washington: Unbeaten Power 5 teams in good health and playing well at the end of year. Both with good wins. Alabama: SEC tournament champ who beat the #1 team to end the year. Texas: Won @Alabama, in my mind, Alabama getting in dragged UT into the CFP. FSU: we saw it, good resume, ACC champ and unbeaten but a shell of the team they were. ** Edited by hokietony at 12/6/2023, 10:57:42 AM
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ModerateHokie
A shell of the team they were? That's absurd.
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hokietony
Maybe a little harsh but IMHO, I wouldn't have picked them.
I am probably a give me the best 4 teams at the end of the season which I don't view FSU as one of the top 4, not sure they are one of the top 7 or so.
Vienna_Hokie Vienna_Hokie
a bit overdramatic, but not absurd by any means
The two games they played without their starting QB: FL: Avg yds per game for the season - 382, FSU offense - 224 UL: Avg yds per game for the season - 307, FSU Offense - 219 Keep in mind, those averages for the season include the FSU numbers so against everyone else, they were actually higher. Those are pretty underwhelming numbers and absolutely show that FSU's offense is not close to where they were the first 10 games.