Big blow to the "Mike Young can't recruit" crowd...
Mike Young now has 9 of the Top 25 VT recruits in the last 25 years (according to 247)...
Top 5 recruits:
MY - 2
Buzz - 2
SG - 1
Top 10 Recruits:
MY - 4
Buzz - 5
SG - 1
Top 25 Recruits:
MY - 9
Buzz - 6
SG - 6
JJ - 4
62 Replies
2y
(In response to this post by Windows NT)
2y
MY is great at developing guys who were overlooked, no doubt about that.
When it comes to star players it’s a different story, how many of those top recruits have made a lasting impact? Much of this is due to how collegiate athletics has changed, but that’s the reality now so either you do what works for you or adjust. To date, focusing on top high school recruits has not been the recipe for success.
Bam played for 1 season, Maddox played for 1.5 seasons. Rice played for 0.5 seasons, Cone played for 2 (might as well call him a veteran), Rechsteiner barely saw the floor last season. TBD on the 2 new recruits but history tends to repeat itself.
He’s not comparable to Buzz.. every big recruit he brought in had a major impact on the program with the exception of Nolley who only ever played for MY. If you made list of the top 5 players at each position ever to play for VT, Robinson, NAW, Hill, Blackshear, and Clarke would all be on it.
** Edited by soflahokie at 7/5/2024, 11:15:39 AM
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
2y
Taking over from an abject failure following 2 dead last finishes in conference with a roster full of low-major recruits.
OR
Taking the helm 1 month after a sweet 16 and lottery pick with a gutted roster.
I’ll take the latter all day, it’s much easier to recruit transfers and high schoolers to a program with proven success than just pitching them on playing time for a bottom feeder. Buzz doesn’t seem to be getting any credit for his transfers in this discussion, but Seth Allen and Zach LeDay were just as instrumental in building VTs program as Aluma was in bringing it back.
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
2y
At worst the two situations were similar. Fans vastly overrate how much recruits value past performance when picking a college. Is it a factor? Somewhat, but it isn't what drives kids to a school. Especially when picking between Virginia Tech and someone of similar caliber. Unless you're Duke or UNC or the like then you're not going to land recruits on a previous coach's accomplishments.
Buzz inherited a recruiting class that included Justin Bibbs and Jalen Hudson from JJ.
MY not only had to re-recruit Bede and Nolley out of the transfer portal, Buzz had used all of VTs visits so he was left only with the ability to recruit players willing to come to VT sight unseen (Cattoor, Alleyne and Ojiako) or who had already been to VT (Cone)
Buzz's roster included:
Joey van Zegeren (10pts, 5 reb)
Trevor Thompson (10pts and 9 reb at Ohio State after Buzz kicked him off the team for being over 6'5)
Adam Smith (13 ppg)
Devin Wilson (ACC All-Freshmen)
MY inherited:
Nolley (15pts, 5 reb)
Bede (3pts, 3 ast as a senior, 5 pts, 5 ast as a junior)
Horne (7pts, 4 reb)
Wilkins (4 pts, 2 reb)
So again, at worst, they inherited similar situations but with an intentional depletion of resources from Buzz making it even harder to recruit an incoming class.
Despite the better inherited roster, Buzz won 11 games in year 1 (and lost to Radford) and MY won 16 (and beat Michigan State
(In response to this post by soflahokie)
2y
was mentioned here.
And while I agree with your overall premise, you are cherry-picking some. Yes, Devin was All Frosh ACC but his scoring wasn't much better than Bede's when it came to shooting. Smith didn't play defense and transferred around a lot and didn't Buzz boot Thompson for complaining?
Still, while Buzz was a good coach and raised up the overall dynamic of the team, the way he left the roster was no bueno.
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
2y
Nolley didn't play defense, Horne and Wilkins both transferred again after transferring from VT, and Bede lost his spot to a Wofford transfer and didn't finish his eligibility.
Like I said, at worst they were similar situations, but certainly not lopsided in MYs favor
(In response to this post by atlhokie1)
2y
Purely looking at the stats. This is straight from Ken Pom, btw, so no gaslighting on this one.
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
2y
The ACC has had multiple Final Four participants in exactly one Final Four
It just so happens to be the same Final Four when VT won the ACC Tournament...and beat both of those Final Four teams
If the ACC was down when VT was ACC Champions, then the ACC has always been down.
EDIT:
Actually happened twice, I forgot Syracuse was in the ACC in 2016
Point still stands
** Edited by GCHokie34 at 7/5/2024, 1:11:30 PM
(In response to this post by catdaddy)
2y
rather daunting tasks; the landscape of "collegiate" sports obviously has changed dramatically over the past 4 to 5 years with NIL, portal, $$$$$ pay for play, etc. All things being equal, CMY has done very well at recruiting even though it has shown up yet in the end product. I believe he is the right guy for the job provided he and his staff are given ample resources and facilities needed to compete, and this includes a Plan to renovate The Cassell into a really cool, unique basketball/entertainment/hospitality venue which could generate revenues from multiple sources.
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
2y
He’s the reason we’re a top 15 program in the country.
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
2y
Irrelevant to big boy basketball.
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
L
larhokie
2y
you have several million dollars you want to donate MBB every year moving forward, we will continue to be where we are. It can be a bit depressing and frustrating, but that is the reality. I am hopeful that every once in a while we can put together a good enough team to make a run in the tourney, but as a realist that will be few and far between.
(In response to this post by Pride_and_Joy)
I don’t think rating services existed back then
U had to hit it big as in MCDONALDS AA for a rating.
Dell made that team didn’t he?
(In response to this post by TomA)
2y
Curry, beacher, brow, Solomon, etc
(In response to this post by TomA)
2y
Jeff Schneider Tim Anderson Wally Lancaster and last but not least and sadly Russell Pierre
Moir was far and away the best recruiter at Tech and would have went to 3-4 more tournaments in the expanded field era
(In response to this post by hokietom87)
2y
You cite 247 (non composite) for the last 25 years. 247 was founded 14 yrs ago.
The 4 top 10 recruits you mention are Rice, Bamisile, Jones and Gurdak.
- The 2 that played for us were busts.. literally were not even on the floor for a cup of coffee.
- The next 2 have never played a minute for us. Gurdak has not even signed his LOI.
Recruiting is also about the right fit mentally and CMY mostly seems to lay a turd in this department with so many of his players walking. No, Bamisile was not a perfect fit for our system as you have claimed in the past. Rice's was just as bad.
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
2y
nonsense like you do so often.
(In response to this post by ancient alien 2018)
With CMY’s and Buzz’s recruiting and results being almost identical, what
this boils down to is you clearly prefer watching Buzz’s style of play. And you know what? That’s OK. I’m sure many feel the same.
(In response to this post by catdaddy)
2y
The 14 years covers the entirety of Buzz vs MY (and even JJ), so the only change would be Greenberg...so as I said in a different post, adding composite slants it in Greenberg's favor
Either you're arguing that "good recruiting" is based off of rankings and Mike Young is no different or better than Buzz Williams
OR
"Good recruiting" is based off of fit, as you say, and can only tell based off of results...where, again, Mike Young is at worst no different than Buzz
A rare instance where no matter where you decide the goalposts are, the result is the same
I'm sorry how upset this post made you
(In response to this post by catdaddy)
2y
that you had no clue that 247 was not even in business for 11 of the years that you cited.
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
I'm rooting for the "MY sure keeps 'em around" crowd
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
V
VT One
2y
(In response to this post by Palmetto Hokie)
2y
new commit. The OP was simply stating the truth: posters like you will never give CMY the credit he deserves for recruiting and so you troll the comments to let us know anything positive about CMY just can't be true and will never actually come to pass.
(In response to this post by HOKIE75-79)
2y
jump in! I love MY as VT's coach. I think GC is one of the more knowledgeable posters on here(sorry you do not qualify). I was trying to point out that a commitment is not worth a cup of coffee until there is a signature. I like how GC lets his detractors have it!! Happy 4th my man...
(In response to this post by ancient alien 2018)
Mike Young doesn't need his or others validation
(In response to this post by ancient alien 2018)
2y
but he's got to keep these top players at VT. That is what is important for RJ and Gurdak - keep them at VT for next several years. Keeping them at VT will help his recruiting momentum even more IMO.
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
2y
from any program, including VT? "This is reality, Greg".
(In response to this post by Scream_On_D)
Delete
** Edited by tallahasseehokie at 7/4/2024, 10:49:29 AM
(In response to this post by ancient alien 2018)
That's a pretty good summary
I'm old school too but times change.
(In response to this post by tallahasseehokie)
2y
and she knows I am a VT sports fan and when I saw Buchanan enter the elevator at the same time as us I pointed him out to her. She has a class with him and he said other factors were involved with his transfer not related to CMY. It was more related to support required for academics. This just indicates that it's not all X's and O's and coaching and system and playing time but also what the administration and support staff is doing for the kids.
(In response to this post by YBYSAIAHokie)
2y
That's why he redshirted his first year...but he was getting support
The biggest reason for leaving was Mike Jones leaving. Maryland didn't have a spot and probably wouldn't have been a good landing spot anyway, so he went back to his hometown to get support from the school and family
(In response to this post by LAHokieAlum)
2y
Top 50 (composite)
MY - 16
Buzz - 14
SG - 16
JJ - 4
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
2y
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
R
RJHokie
2y
(In response to this post by uber hokie)
2y
** Edited by Hokies23 at 7/3/2024, 1:21:03 PM
(In response to this post by RJHokie)
2y
(In response to this post by RJHokie)
2y
I see Rodney Rice, Ryan Jones and Joe B? Who is the 4th?
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
2y
This is using 247 rankings, not composite...composite gives heavy weight to Greenberg, but does not change MY vs Buzz
But if it makes that crowd feel better...
Top 5 recruits (composite):
MY - 2
Buzz - 2
SG - 1
Top 10 Recruits (composite):
MY - 3
Buzz - 5
SG - 2
Top 25 Recruits (composite):
MY - 9
Buzz - 6
SG - 6
JJ - 4
(In response to this post by hokietom87)
2y
For me, I would have him a little higher. He doesn't have the ceiling that other prospects might, but he has an awfully high floor
(In response to this post by hokietom87)
2y
under the sand.
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
S
Stech
2y
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
2y
You're going to get a rebuttal from some 😂
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)