first, if the NCAA tournament loses 25% of teams that typically qualify for the tournament, that would have significant loss of value to the overall tournament. Second, with the massive influx of cash to the P2, it is inevitable that their basketball programs would become successful as well. It is very realistic that a P2 basketball tournament would become a big-time moneymaker. they'd create a 48-team tournament where every team qualified (like some state HS tournies) and likely leave a couple qualifying spots for non-P2 teams. The NCAA distributed $625 million from this past tournament. that doesn't equate to a huge amount of money when spread out over 150+ schools.. Anyway you look at it, the P2 comes out ahead. NCAA basketball tourney is not going to be the magnet that, if I understand correctly, you're describing here.

I don't think they run a tourney like the current NCAA tourney. And if they did, and almost every team made it, the regular season would be boring and so would the tournament. I would think that instead, they'd have an NBA style tournament. Best of three, five or even seven.

1. The NCAA basketball tourney money is split between many conferences, including small conferences like the Big South that get small cuts, and the NCAA. 2. The SEC deal with ESPN will bring in more money than the NCAA basketball tourney and only gets divided among 16 teams. So that is a whole lot more value than basketball. 3. The CFP money will have a massive value increase when it expands and the SEC and BIG will get huge cuts because they will be sending at least 3 teams each every year. 4. If the top football schools break away and form their own league and own basketball tourney; with all the money they will be making, (AND IN FACT ALREADY ARE MAKING) they will soon become the best basketball league as well. They will buy out the best coaches from the ACC. They will spend more money on NIL and get the best players. It will not take long for the ACC to lose it's status as the best basketball conference. In fact we are already seeing it happen as SEC schools and BIG schools are pouring more money into basketball - money the ACC doesn't have. 5. If the ACC is the best basketball conference, and basketball is such a big moneymaker, then why are we so far behind financially. We are not currently seeing the benefits of the basketball financial windfall.

1. The NCAA basketball tourney money is split between many conferences, including small conferences like the Big South that get small cuts, and the NCAA. -They will have their own tournament and they can still do that, but will likely make more money, since the current tournament slots are dominated by the P65, especially at the later rounds 2. The SEC deal with ESPN will bring in more money than the NCAA basketball tourney and only gets divided among 16 teams. So that is a whole lot more value than basketball. -The SEC and B1G are getting more money because they are dominating the playoff in football. However, if the Billion dollars that has been going to the NCAA is distributed to the best basketball schools like that, the ACC can make similar money. 3. The CFP money will have a massive value increase when it expands and the SEC and BIG will get huge cuts because they will be sending at least 3 teams each every year. -It will and without the NCAA involved in basketball, it will make something similar. However, the ACC needs to get Miami, Florida State and Virginia Tech back to being top 10 teams in football with Clemson and they will get a bigger share of that money. 4. If the top football schools break away and form their own league and own basketball tourney; with all the money they will be making, (AND IN FACT ALREADY ARE MAKING) they will soon become the best basketball league as well. They will buy out the best coaches from the ACC. They will spend more money on NIL and get the best players. It will not take long for the ACC to lose it's status as the best basketball conference. In fact we are already seeing it happen as SEC schools and BIG schools are pouring more money into basketball - money the ACC doesn't have. -The ACC had to final four teams whom VT beat out for the ACC Championship as you know, but the point is that the sooner we do the break away, the sooner the ACC starts making similar money through the basketball tournament. 5. If the ACC is the best basketball conference, and basketball is such a big moneymaker, then why are we so far behind financially. We are not currently seeing the benefits of the basketball financial windfall. -Because currently the Billion dollars is going to the NCAA and not to the Conferences/schools, like it is in football . Once we change that, the best basketball conference at tournament time will make similar money.

I thought a lot of it passed through. The football playoff could expand and perhaps grow from $400 million to $1billion and if the bball tourney money gets added then you're talking about $2 billion that could be split between 30-40 teams in addition to the regular season? The Bball tourney generates $14 million per included school. You used the $1 billion bball number and around 70 teams get in, so I used $14 million per included team.The football 4 team playoff makes $100 million per included team. I'm assuming that the footbal title game makes the lion's share of the $400 million. So if you expand the football playoff to 12 teams, maybe it increases to a billion. If you want to increase the bball tourney, you have to be even more restrictive on the selection, since that pie doesn't have much room to grow. Doesn't a lot of that current $1 billion pass through to the schools? If not, then I see your point. This also makes me think that big conferences won't want more than 40 teams to be included, which gets dicey for us. How much of the NCAA bball tourney $1 billion does the NCAA keep?

20 team national scope conference with lots of academics and 5 teams that have made the CFP (that would be the most of any conference). ESPN would have to renegotiate or the conference would go back out for bids...would be really attractive for a CBS national game of the week.

want. Then if we were to go beyond 16, who is going to make the schools more money. There may be a diminishing return at some point, but I don't know where that starts. PS I think I am the only one putting Navy out there, I have to duck every time I do it. :-)

No thanks!

are all fighting for and investing hundreds of millions for football supremacy, not basketball supremacy. If there were more money to be made in basketball, those coaches would be making $10MM per year, not the football coaches. I get what you're saying, but I just don't think it works out that way in practice. ** Edited by JohnsonCItyHokie at 7/8/2022, 7:48:43 PM

The NCAA is not going to take the Billion in the near future, just like football is it going to the Conference that has the most teams do well in the new tournament.

First, I believe you and I were the most vocal on this board for many years about getting the ACC to 20 teams and trying to pull in a small central "quad" of "Texas, Oklahoma, etc" and lure ND along with it. That provided stability and scheduling flexibility amongst rivals. We'll never know if the ACC pursued that strategy, but that ship has sailed. Regarding Navy, I'd like to see a better analysis on how they drew more than Miami. That one article seemed cherry picked and statistically flawed. Who someone payed, what TV slot, and what network are huge drivers. Regarding the playoffs, you're comparing numbers only from the post-season. The NCAAM tournament consists of 127 games. The NCAAF 3 games. The regular-season of NCAAF dwarfs the NCAAM regular season. Are you implying that basketball drives conference realignment and is enough to avoid defections? That has historically never been the case. The Big East, Kansas, Uconn, Gonzaga and many other teams would love to hear more. I agree if you can get ND and a friend into the ACC that helps (assuming there are no more defections)... and there are some valuable "enough" properties in Oregon, Washington, Colorado, Arizona, Baylor, OK State that you could get stability without waiting on a SEC or Big10 invite.

Other notables: 2021: Army #44, UVa #52, VT #62 2015-19: VT #31, Army #42, UVa #59 Linked is the 2021 numbers. Within the article is the link for 2015-19. Source: Medium.com ** Edited by Maroon Baboon at 7/8/2022, 9:15:37 PM

numbers somewhat. Only game on TV that day - it gets huge numbers and everybody loves it. Not necessarily indicative of Navy overall as a TV draw.

Only game on TV that day - it gets huge numbers and everybody loves it. Not necessarily indicative of Navy overall as a TV draw. ** Edited by VPI_1998 at 7/9/2022, 5:36:01 AM

the ND game, I'd imagine.

It is a statistical FARCE. If VT plays Wake Forest, that means that total viewership for Wake Forest and Virginia Tech is equal. If Akron plays Ohio State and Virginia Tech plays NC State, I bet Akron gets more viewership. Then you have time slots, network, etc. I do have a Math degree from VT, and I'm a business person, so I do have a bit of credibility here. Even the article disclaims their methodology. ** Edited by jesuisvtguy at 7/8/2022, 9:21:44 PM

BTW, all these people saying that we shouldn't be "complaining" about the dog 3-5-5 schedule the ACC just handed us must not be worried about auditioning for the SEC and B1G. Can you imagine the rating difference in VT playing Miami and VT playing Wake?

I did my research on it, because I knew the criticism would be coming. I stand by them.

I'm not trying to be combative, just trying to learn - as you're throwing out some pretty strong numbers about X > Y, but it is very cherry-picked data. Even my daughter is taller than me if she's standing up and I'm sleeping.

It's important to keep impassioned fans in the fold, and rivalries do it because the fans will pay attention to rivalry games and what the rivals are doing. WVU is the one the ACC needs to go back and get. Strong rivalries with Pitt, VT, Syracuse, and Louisville. I think at this point we can leave ND in the current arrangement. They're already here for basketball. Navy would be a nice addition too. But not ahead of WVU.

I am very partial on our National Defense and I like being in the DMV. As I have said in other post, the ACC needs to follow Boeing and Amazon and get their headquarters there, since the biggest changes are coming from the Supreme Court and Congress. Out of sight, out of mind, or in this case in sight, in mind.

Yes, the NCAA brings in a billion dollars in revenue. Revenue. Some of that (I have no idea how much, but I'm sure it's significant), has to go back to its member institutions. With the rest, they have an infrastructure of 3000+ employees to support who do countless other things beyond NCAA tournament. EVERY other sport. Every aspect, not just the championships. The college football playoff is a completely different structure. They have 17 employees listed on their staff directory. They have nothing to worry about other than a playoff in one sport. And much of the $400 million is also paid out to schools (see link) ** Edited by Pylons at 7/8/2022, 7:27:42 PM

because he raised so much money and partnered with other schools regularly. He worked closely with every President at Virginia Tech on many of his University partnerships. He spoke on Capitol Hill frequently. He did this when we were an Independent, he did it when we were in the Big East and he did it when we joined the ACC. He just retired recently, but this was when he was still working. He wanted to retire much earlier, but the University Presidents would talk out of it, since he was so successful.. Now you may know more about this than he does, but I asked him point black, do you think Virginia Tech was able to make stronger partnerships with other schools since joining the ACC. He said absolutely!! He said the schools in the Conference would return my calls much faster since we joined the ACC. Because you and some other posters always say it has nothing to do it, I said then why do those in Academia always say it has no impact. He said to me, because those in Academia resent that they are changing the world for the better with their research and the average Tech grad can tell you who can throw a football on the team, but they have no idea which professor changed the world with their research. He said that, and some are really not doing as many partnerships as I and others do, so they don't know. I said, are you resentful? He said, honestly, yes. By the way, he got his Phd from an SEC school, so it wasn't like he didn't like sports, that was not it at all. Now he probably did not change your mind on this, but this guy is a straight shooter with impeccable credentials, so he convinced me. .

There's just not logic in it. First of all, many academic people couldn't even tell you what other schools are in their conference (some couldn't even tell you the conference), so I'm not sure how it makes a difference for them. Might it make a difference for someone? Sure...I suppose some fundraising type might lean that way. But someone involved with forging academic partnerships? Someone in the VT Provost's Office gets 2 calls about establishing some joint academic effort...research center, joint major, whatever. One is from Tennessee and one is from NCSU. They're not going to think "ooh...ACC...I'm calling NCSU first." There's just no reason. I'd love to hear the logic. And for sure no professor is considering conference affiliation when thinking about partnering for some research or something. For me (an academic...PhD from VT), the resentment is not at all what you say. I don't care if you know who the top faculty but know who the top athletes are. It's over how so many people give football so much credit for academic success. It's insulting. It's like saying Apple makes great products because they have a nice cafeteria, nursing rooms, and a sweet gym. Why do you assume that because someone has a PhD from an SEC school, they like sports? That's kind of a sign of the resentment I'm talking about...people who assume football is just king across the entire campus.

i’m thinking of a seth greenberg quote…

That's still double of what the playoff just made,

way more than to just $800MM if you consider the actual game inventory and the fact that there will be another approximately 300 teams looking to run a second tournament. The Golden Goose of the NCAA basketball tourney is likely the single biggest obstacle to a breakaway.

11 of the 16 were P-5 schools. I am not buying a huge drop in revenue, but what will be dropped is the NCAA making the 870 million. The football playoff made apx. 400 million and probably gets to 800 million. Either way there is plenty of money for the ACC if they boot the NCAA like the football FBS and FCS did.

that money is apportioned by rounds? I don't think 11 - 16 has anything to do with the value that would get ascribed to a breakaway tourney. The broadcasters are paying for a total inventory of games AND the revenue pie does not have a lot of ways to go when you have multiple men's tourneys and the women's tourney competing for slots.

either hearing it on a video interview or seeing it. If you don't believe it prove I made a mistake, I will own up to it, unlike some. However, you are missing the forest for a tree either way, the money now goes to the NCAA. If they break off like the FBS and the FCS in football, the Power schools will get it all of that money that is going to the NCAA. That's the much bigger point here. Even if it drops, it will be hundreds of millions of dollars.

with you. You make a statement and then when asked to support/prove it you want somebody to do your work for you. I didn't miss anything. There will be money there no doubt and plenty of it but, not nearly as much as you believe.

back it up. I tried to talk you again like an a

Academic people don't give a rat's ass what athletic conference some other academician's school is in. I know you requested not to go there, but that's freaking ridiculous. If we join the B1G, there is ZERO change in the likelihood that a UM professor returns a VT professor's call. ATHLETIC conferences have NOTHING to do with ACADEMIC research. Geez. If we make a conference move, it won't have jack to do with academics and won't impact them.

my full answer is to your other post.

It's just an outlandish concept to me that I can't understand. Almost always when someone has a differing opinion, I can see it...I get why they'd see it that way...this I'm struggling with. I'd love for you to explain the logic to me of how conference membership matters when schools cooperate academically—like what the thought process is of that person who's more likely to return a call because it's a conference-mate.

by themselves but this year will make 25 years in a row that they've played ND. And this is the second time in my memory Skipper has talked about an exclusive top tier basketball tournament as an untapped revenue source. I think ultimately all playoff revenues will be more or less equal across the board; but it does raise the floor for everyone. And I think he's right that if there is a top tier breakaway, ND will join a conference. *sorry about the duplicates below; I kept getting error messages so I resubmitted...then they all loaded ** Edited by daveinop at 7/8/2022, 6:59:37 PM

it's not so nutty. Especially if ND wants them. If USC/UCLA can send their teams to Piscataway and College Park, Stanford with their money can send them to Raleigh and Roanoke or even Blacksburg on a private jet.

** Edited by daveinop at 7/8/2022, 6:58:04 PM

** Edited by daveinop at 7/8/2022, 6:57:04 PM

Add WVU instead of UConn if WVU is available. If it becomes the Power 64, will they allow non-football schools for basketball and other Olympic sports. Will the Big East schools, Gonzaga, and a few other quality men's basketball programs be included in the post season men's basketball tournament? A Power 64 will be very bad news financially for the G-5 and FCS schools since most depend on the NCAAMBBT and football road games vs. P-5 schools to generate revenue to keep their athletics programs alive.

fence and Stanford as crazy as that sounds would help too. That, and I love helping the DOD and love going to Annapolis. Even with the wicked weather against Cincinnati. I loved going from seafood bar to seafood bar, before and after the game. However, I know I am the lone wolf on this for the most part.

The NCAA is basically a pass through to the schools to share money while avoiding some taxes. You can't just take that away easily. There are reasons ($$$) it hasn't been taken down before. If the P64 do break away, they will have to make sure they have cover from Congress to basically establish a new tax exempt entity to reap the benefits. Otherwise, they risk some financial impacts with the IRS. It is a complex web that has been woven in college sports. And don't forget the shoe/apparel companies who have a massive stake in all of this.

So they should have no problem setting that up. I have set one up and I am on the board and I am exploring the second one. Good question though.

I won't bother talking about Notre Dame. But let me focus on Navy. The USNA's mission is decidedly different than modern big-athletics colleges where sports and academics are being increasingly disconnected. They would likely be non competitive in the ACC and that isn't even the most important thing. The academies are all national schools. They should play a national schedule, in my opinion, as football independents. While playing a few major conference teams is fine, there shouldn't be a steady diet of it. Most scholarship players going to P2/P5 schools are going there to audition for the NFL or NBA, let's face it. Nothing wrong with that. But s Navy football/basketball player is not--their mission is different and greater. And then there's all the weight and height restrictions. Lots of schools talk about academics and even use it as an excuse for not succeeding on the football field. But these same schools have plenty of easy majors for these players to get by if need be. You won't find that at the academies. They are a different breed than the modern major college football and basketball players. Navy won't save the ACC and if we think we need them to, we already lost. I'm also convince that the ACC could add Navy, USC, Michigan, and Michigan State and Notre Dame could find some reason not to join. I am being a bit facetious about this last point, but I think you get my drift. ** Edited by Maroon Baboon at 7/8/2022, 6:33:11 PM ** Edited by Maroon Baboon at 7/8/2022, 8:46:05 PM

If the March Madness tourney goes to the 64 schools, $1 Billion / 64 is about $15.6 Million per team. The revenue gap between B1G/SEC and the ACC is bigger than that.

Their 32 teams go play their own league. And it would be cool if the 64 had some kind of deal with any school outside of the 64 get to switch places with the top 4 outside and the bottom 4 inside the 64. Don’t know how that would work but the idea is cool. Do that every 4 years. Too hard to do every year.

2 more and it looks like for now the Big 12 has out maneuvered the Pac as number 4, but I am not so sure about that. If the PAC gets ESPN or Fox on their side they could come back.. Get your popcorn, because this is going to get interesting.

Pass. College FB is already enough of a mess, let's not break CBB too. Not that I, who will not get a dime of the $1.16 Billion, gets a vote.

not just basketball. Think of Sports as the Marketing Department for a commercial company, without it, you end up with very little revenue for the overwhelming majority of *businesses. *Businesses that serve the government can be somewhat different.

way. Less loudly if we make the cut. Throw in some sort of attempt at revenue sharing to get some parity across the P64 and maybe even less loudly. you're theory is as good as any. thanks for sharing.

the conference that sends the most, will get the most. It is fair in this regard, the SEC and to some degree the B1G will get the most football money, but the ACC will likely get the most basketball money, so to some degree it will even out.

NCAA. You know they have to make their money too. :-)

Have to design it so that non-breakaway schools can be invited based on performance merit and get a cut.

like they do in football with the FCS. Now the P5 dominate the basketball tournament slots. They call Cinderella, Cinderella, because they usually don't make it to the Ball. However, with their own Ball, they may actually make more money and get more attention. As far as the P64, you could argue Cinderella won the ACC Tournament this year. :-)