Big 12 courting Florida State?
The ACC should have and still should poach West Virginia and Cincinnati from the Big 12.
59 Replies
2y
College football insider and radio host Greg Swaim is reporting that the Big Ten and SEC are not interested in either Florida State or Clemson as potential future members of their leagues. Swaim posted that “conversations have all but ceased” between the two leagues and Florida State and Clemson.
The Big 12 is apparently the new expected landing spot for both the Seminoles and Tigers.
Link:
Breaking News
(In response to this post by Hokie1992)
2y
(In response to this post by 40ozDistrict)
Why would the Commissioner of either P2 conference tell a CFB "Insider"
anything except the official speaking points, which is "what deal?".
FSU did not move on exiting with anything but a firm legally binding letter of commitment from the destination conference.
FSU has been working this deal for at least a year prior to the time that the "experts" figured out that something was afoot.
Typical mid-summer click bait.
(In response to this post by 40ozDistrict)
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2hhoop3
2y
they would be foolish to exit anything without a binding agreement but, the form of the agreement is unlikely to be in writing as that would be the evidence for a variety of open and shut legal actions against FSU and their future conference providing the landing spot.
(In response to this post by tallahasseehokie)
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RJHokie
2y
like who approaches who first……
(In response to this post by 2hhoop3)
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2hhoop3
2y
and I would love to hear your thoughts on how who initiates the discussion influences those legal perspectives. My thoughts were that at the end of the day you still have a school likely actively breaching its contract, another conference inserting itself in the middle of an existing contract and potential third party interference via media companies. I think the real perspective is what, if anything, conference membership agreements say are the duties and responsibilities. My guess is that has not been high on the priority list in past agreements but, will be an area of increased legal focus as new agreements are negotiated or old ones renewed.
(In response to this post by RJHokie)
2y
All of the ACC members basically signed onto a death pack. There is no way out. As such, Clemson and Florida State have to resolve their legal battles with the ACC before they can discuss going anywhere?
(In response to this post by 2hhoop3)
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2hhoop3
2y
at anytime. Resolving the legal issues are a matter of cost and rights certainty. What conference wants to take a new partner on with those uncertainties that affect both sides of the revenue equation? Leaving prior to settlement is a risky move or a sign the fix is already in behind the scenes. Then the plot thickens to see who lines up as legal allies and/or what "other deals" might explain the actions taken.
(In response to this post by Hokie1992)
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RJHokie
2y
that if FSU makes the initial contact with another conference, then that conference is essentially free to respond and doesn’t really have any legal consequences.
FSU then has to deal with the legal mechanics of exiting the ACC subject to agreements it signed with the ACC.
If it’s the other way around, the other conference has a tampering issue, of which the $ damages could be significant.
(In response to this post by 2hhoop3)
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2hhoop3
2y
for the reply. That take is not unreasonable and certainly could be right. I just looked at it as both parties had responsibilities that were not mitigated by order of approach.
(In response to this post by RJHokie)
2y
I kid.
But Florida state and Clemson both have contractual obligations to the ACC. The payoff is an annual check for ESPN. The hitch is if any school leaves, ESPN still owns their broadcast rights. So Florida State can sneak into the Big 12 rodeo and tell the Big 12 they wanna boot scoot boogie with em. Big 12 says show us what you got. ESPN in the corner says hold on now Florida State, I own your rights and the Big 12 rights. You go home and make some Carolina barbecue. Florida State squeals and says Carolina is in Indianapolis, learning about corn, steel, auto making and what a Buckeye is?
Of course the interesting piece to all of that is Carolina could be the linchpin that blows it all up.
** Edited by Hokie1992 at 7/13/2024, 8:12:04 AM
(In response to this post by 2hhoop3)
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2hhoop3
2y
the ACC owns the rights, not ESPN. ESPN has an assignment from the ACC for those rights in connection with the ACC/ESPN agreement. It, at least in my opinion, is a point that COULD lead to varying interpretations by a court when determining valuation and the recipient of payments.
One thought says those rights are what ESPN is paying the ACC. Another says those rights are the greater of what the ESPN pays them or another conference pays to move. If it were to get that far, I doubt it will, a court might have two components(term and annual value) to decide as opposed to just one(term) and, more importantly, it could make the question of whether ESPN renews its ACC agreement moot. I am not saying this is the most likely or probable interpretation but, it is a question that COULD be raised in the course of the valuation determination and the answer is just another twist/uncertainty that must be factored into the equation.
(In response to this post by Hokie1992)
2y
(In response to this post by 40ozDistrict)
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Marooned
2y
* The ACC is 100% their property whereas the B12 is split with Fox.
* The B12 doesn’t need brands, it needs major markets. F$U and CU don’t deliver that. F$U doesn’t even deliver a new state. Yes, F$U and CU have pedigrees that are of value. What will those leverage for the B12 that they didn’t for the ACC?
* Destabilizing the ACC doesn’t help the conference retain ND games per the conference’s agreement.
None of this makes sense. Now Fox may be pushing for this, but how much is that worth?
(In response to this post by 40ozDistrict)
2y
to the ACC. I could not imagine FSU and Clemson leaving the ACC for the lowly B12 conference, that would be a major step down !
(In response to this post by Marooned)
2y
That conference was recently castrated, and left behind a bunch of dregs with zero big brands. Its hard for me to believe FSU and Clemson would rather play all their sports against mid/south west teams than traditional regional rivalries. The money can't be THAT much better in the B12 to trash decades and decades of tradition.
The B1G I could better understand, WAY better money, and many marquee brands to play each year.
I don't think FSU and Clemson would be fighting this hard to leave go play ball with Iowa State, BYU, Cinnci, and UCF. That's crazy.
they have a sweet deal waiting for them with the SEC or B1G for sure.
** Edited by Techsupport at 7/11/2024, 2:53:18 PM
(In response to this post by 40ozDistrict)
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2hhoop3
2y
and why? Yormark could clearly be the source and the benefits are it pumps the B12 on media day and possibly tweaks the ACC and some lesser members worried about their future. It could also be either the SEC or B1G for a number of reasons from misdirection to negotiating leverage for partial vs. full shares. No one in the FSU or Clemson admin relishes the blowback of their fan bases saying, "let me get this straight, you did all this just so you could end up in the Big 12?* There are other possibilities for the report but, this is enough to start. I wouldn't put a lot of stock in anything said that does not come directly as quotes from conference or school admins.
(In response to this post by Techsupport)
FSU did not sue to leave for the 12
They have an offer on the table and it's not the SEC.
(In response to this post by 2hhoop3)
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2hhoop3
2y
what the offer on the table amounts to, what do they actually have to do to get out of the ACC and at what cost and what might other parties be willing to do to help or hinder their move? We should get a better idea sometime in the next 30-34 days of where that truth might lie and who will blink first.
(In response to this post by tallahasseehokie)
2y
Instead of handling this stuff with the acc behind the scenes, they have decided to put out their complaints in the public arena in the courthouse, they were convincing everyone in the public it would be easy . They should have been working the "relationship' of nurturing the universities of their preferred destinations to solicit support before getting out into public public venue.
Especially FSU and their crazy Board of trustees. Its the 'people's court down there.
Its not good perception for a new conference, to look at a candidate institution, that first sign of disagreements of their conference they take it to court. From the new conference- perception. Do you really want that 'kind of institution ' as part of your conference team??? Get them in into the new conference, and they might threaten to sue the new conference as well, or release 'private business dealings within the conference.'
From Behind the curtain guy on tube, for what its worth. the Big 10 biggest criteria right now is FIT and culture.
(In response to this post by Techsupport)
2y
(In response to this post by 1947Sunbowl)
2y
It amazes me how much armchair analysis here about conference alignment is viewed entirely through the prism of the past and the present rather than the future.
** Edited by marcbvtgm at 7/12/2024, 1:48:08 PM
(In response to this post by Techsupport)
2y
Similar to Miami, FSU has been recruiting with the elite for decades, despite being in the backseat to other conferences revenue wise. There's no "sky-is-falling" reason for a program like FSU to be freaking out the way they are. Conversely, look at how many schools in the B1G and SEC out revenue FSU and don't come close to matching their recruiting chops, never have, and never will.
Over the last 30 years, you could probably point to 1 school, Oregon, that has moved into the ranks of an elite program borne out on the recruiting trail. It's the same cast of characters decade in and decade out.
Sure things could change, anything could happen, but its far from unreasonable to expect more of the same.
(In response to this post by marcbvtgm)
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Truthahn
2y
I'm calling BS on that one. I think B10 is interested in FSU and Clemson, but not the SEC. And the B12 has no chance of landing either Clemson or FSU.
** Edited by Truthahn at 7/11/2024, 1:16:41 PM
(In response to this post by 40ozDistrict)
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VPI_1998
2y
consensus is that the SEC is dying to add Clemson and FSU. I'm glad to see more sensible takes on this board. I really don't think the SEC wants or needs Clemson or FSU. Why add them? What do they bring that they don't already have? The state of Florida? The state of South Carolina? FSU maybe, but Clemson is the head scratcher. Yes, Clemson games have good ratings right now, but they are one bad hire away from going back to the mid-nineties Clemson and middling ratings. Dabo won't be there forever.
(In response to this post by 40ozDistrict)
2y
(In response to this post by VPI_1998)
2y
The SEC already has their markets with South Carolina and Florida. It’s fully understandable that the Gamecocks, Gators and likely many other SEC programs would block their addition. The lone reason the SEC would be interested is to keep them out of the Big Ten. But more then anything, the SEC leadership loves an ACC civil war that results in relegating the Noles and Tigers to a worthless Big 12.
(In response to this post by 40ozDistrict)
2y
then Big 10 but not Big 12. If they did leave the ACC then I wish it was the Big 12.
(In response to this post by Hokie1992)
2y
would wear whatever level of orange uniforms for every game that met your satisfaction standards?
(In response to this post by Stork)
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83Hokie
2y
(In response to this post by VTHokie2000)
2y
(In response to this post by 83Hokie)
2y
record to indicate which he is more passionate about. Whereas, I think he has gone on the record regarding UVA vs. the color orange.
(In response to this post by RJHokie)
2y
should have poached WVU or not. However, the purpose of the question was to determine how Stork's feelings towards WVU compares to the color orange which is well established on here. I probably could have phrased the question better, but it is too late now.
(In response to this post by TomTurkey)
2y
(In response to this post by Hokie1992)
2y
Trench has already been dug..Better get who you can if you want to stay a conference.
(In response to this post by marcbvtgm)
I think it's a ploy by the Big 12 to try to make them look strong(er)
(In response to this post by Hokie1992)
UCF is the largest school in FL and an emerging research leader
(In response to this post by EDGEMAN)
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VPI_1998
2y
behind aTm and if they continue their current trajectory they will pass aTm in less than 5 years I think.
(In response to this post by VictoryTurkey)
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EDGEMAN
2y
(In response to this post by VPI_1998)
Cincy is a consistent winner and the #2 FB school in a large state
(In response to this post by VictoryTurkey)
WVU has engaged fans and their two historical rivals are in the ACC
These are actual football schools, not Duke, Wake or BC
(In response to this post by VictoryTurkey)
2y
** Edited by marcbvtgm at 7/12/2024, 1:40:50 PM
(In response to this post by VictoryTurkey)
2y
But if the conferences are picking each other apart, I say be on offense. Get the teams that make sense. WVU, Cincy and UCF have downsides, but if programs are needed, they make sense in a ACC fighting to have a P4 instead of a P2
(In response to this post by VictoryTurkey)
2y
And it's not as though VT (or WVU for that matter) won't find a place in the 2nd tier if it doesn't get a P2 invite. But right now, WVU to the ACC does nothing for VT or the ACC.
** Edited by marcbvtgm at 7/12/2024, 1:45:14 PM
** Edited by marcbvtgm at 7/12/2024, 1:51:03 PM
(In response to this post by Hokie1992)
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VTCALS72
2y
(In response to this post by Hokie1992)