The Augusta free press says....
the only way any of it makes sense is for all of the Acc teams talking about leaving would be for them all to end up in the Sec. Chris Graham.
85 Replies
3y
Says SC and northern FL already in the SEC and that Miami would be a better add than FSU.
Link:
Finebaum
(In response to this post by HokiePail)
3y
They ALL have at least one significant drawback. The biggest thing most somewhat attractive schools - even the most attractive - have is it FOMO between the SEC and B1G.
(In response to this post by mrcaniac)
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TDVick
3y
appeal. Everyone else is somewhat dilutive. Unless they are going to crack the entire egg and carve up March Madness. At this point, that's the situation that is best for us. Then the inner circle of teams will have to be larger.
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3y
SEC media guy where both agreed the SEC wouldn't add FSU and Clemson (at least not next as 17 and 18), because "they already have FSU and Clemson at home." They both agreed #1 would be UNC (adds #1 brand from North Carolina) and #2 would be VT (adds largest and football focused fanbase from Virginia) to add two new highly populated states to the footprint. They didn't mention anyone else, which I think ignorantly ignores the ties to UVA and NC State.
Both claimed to have been in the room when conversations about expansion were taking place, which I don't believe, but I do think they're in tune with SEC logic. Things change over time so I wonder if anything has changed over the past year. The news from last week makes me wonder if the next step is bigger than most people are expecting.
(In response to this post by mrcaniac)
VT, UVa, UNC and NCSt are in a good spot. Both the SEC and B1G should want
into the the states of VA and NC. And I think they do. UNC is in the catbird seat of course.
I think UVa will go where UNC goes. And the conference that doesn't get them will take NCSt and VT.
I don't see either P2 taking two from the same state. And FWIW, the UVa-VT rivalry was just fine when the two teams were in separate conferences.
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RJHokie
3y
Doubt the Big Ten or ESPN take both schools in both states unless they just want to shut the other out of those states.
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3y
Going to the BIG potentially is where the SEC becomes thinkers. Like can we allow this? I think the BIG desires putting foot down in SEC country.
(In response to this post by mrcaniac)
If the B1G could go right down the coast and get a school in each state,
that would be massive.
UVa or VT
UNC or NCState
Clemson
GT
FSU or Miami.
It would also be good for the other two VA and NC schools not chosen, as the SEC would likely come calling.
(In response to this post by MrFantastic!)
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HOO86
3y
Why would they? They have all of them under contract now. And ESPN owns all of the SEC rights now. Don't need these ACC teams over there. They have them just fine in the ACC.
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jmanatVT
3y
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3y
Plus FSU and Clemson in the future. Those four would provide the most value.
** Edited by Millpoint at 5/22/2023, 12:14:31 PM
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Stech
3y
Maybe if they expand the NCAA basketball tournament and pay the Sweet 16 like the playoff 12, but UNC and UVA are basketball schools, and Finebaum said he doesn’t think either Florida State or Clemson would bring enough new eyeballs. Not to mention, UNC and UVA would have to cut a lot of sports in the SEC, unless they take about 6 more ACC schools with them. Plus ESPN already has all 4 of them for a lot less money.
(In response to this post by Millpoint)
3y
More sports to watch. Wrestling becomes a sports for SEC then. THe other sports would be much better.
(In response to this post by Stech)
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Stech
3y
pay to the Mag 7 and cut the other 7. Isn’t that, just break even? There would also be a huge amount of legalities and bad PR to deal with, to basically break even. The best thing in the ACC, is to start winning enough to place two teams in the playoff, and get multiple teams in the Sweet 16.
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3y
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3y
ESPN losses them.
** Edited by HokiePail at 5/22/2023, 11:46:58 AM
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HOO86
3y
I don't follow the logic from Graham.
(In response to this post by HokiePail)
3y
Then they possible lose some to the Big 10 and Fox. Or they pay them in the Sec. At least the Acc or the 7 or 8 are trying to manuever.
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Stech
3y
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RJHokie
3y
Two more states plus more content.
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Stech
3y
above, the Mag 7 + 1 in the SEC would be fun, but it seems like a very big long shot it happens to me.
(In response to this post by RJHokie)
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WBGV
3y
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jmanatVT
3y
and how many will they gain. The former is nearly 0 and the latter is substantial.
There's 112k people willing to travel to the middle of nowhere to watch a middling team in the conference and a middling team from the mag7; I wonder how many would tune a tv or pick a stream.
** Edited by jmanatVT at 5/22/2023, 8:42:23 AM
(In response to this post by WBGV)
3y
They will not desire VT either.
(In response to this post by MrFantastic!)
3y
Championships in Field Hockey and Lacrosse for the SEC network!!
(In response to this post by Millpoint)
3y
No way it will provide that kind of value.
(In response to this post by MrFantastic!)
3y
(In response to this post by Millpoint)
3y
sighted and the ACC let their academic snobbery cloud their judegement. WVU would have been better than BC, Sry, Pitt, and Louisville. Just one Hokie fans opinion ;-)
(In response to this post by MrFantastic!)
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2hhoop3
3y
of hindsight as well as a nearer view of the future now there are a variety of scenarios that might have been better in 2003. I think the reality that actually existed back then is somewhat different.
The ACC was on a collision course with the Big East for survival. There was likely only going to be one seat when the music stopped. The ACC was sinking on the football side. It was FSU and the eight dwarfs and if they did not shore up football FSU might have moved into play. Miami was the killshot. They were still strong in football and would be a good ACC addition and broadside to the Big East. The additional parts, at least at first, were about keeping UM happy and they fit the TV focus at the time. The rest of what happened has a number of angles.
(In response to this post by 133193Hokie)
3y
The only people who care about WVU being the ACC are WVU fans - and for odd reason - a small portion of the VT fanbase. I don’t even think Pitt fans see any benefit to WVU.
It’s one thing the ACC got right.
(In response to this post by 133193Hokie)
3y
FSU/Miami/VT/UNC/Clem/NCST vs WVU instead of FSU/Miami/VT/UNC/Clem/NCST vs BC/Syr/Louisville/Pitt. I dont know about you, but I would watch (witch means $'s) any of the former matchups and none of the later matchups i listed. As much as we all "hate" WVU, that is what creates compelling matchups that people will watch. And that is a BIG portion of the ACC's problems - too much content (matchups) that people could care less about watching. In any given weekend the ACC has maybe 1 or 2 games that people care to watch. By comparison the SEC has 3-6.
Everything is about content - content is king - content is the alpha and the omega.
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Stech
3y
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3y
That being said a group of ACC teams going to same league and possibly same division saves some face.
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3y
2003 expansion should've been VT, WVU and Miami.
(In response to this post by 133193Hokie)
3y
I still don't understand why that relationship is important to anyone. I've heard the line about how a lot of Miami students are from the NE and the university wants to maintain a tie to that region. But that's always sounded like a load of crap to me.
(In response to this post by mancunian)
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TDVick
3y
Syr and Pitt who the Irish routinely scheduled. All of them were very shaky additions that didn't add value. It looks to me like he was trying to ringfence ND's natural rivals away from the B10, so that if ND jumped it would be to the ACC. However, ND was never going to jump, so the approach was just stupid as hell. But we hitched our wagon to that UNC scumbag.
(In response to this post by HokieNoVA)
3y
(In response to this post by HokieNoVA)
3y
Just be hind the 33% that are from Florida.
(In response to this post by HokieNoVA)
3y
You think the SEC lets teams "negotiate" this kind of stuff. This was always part of the ACC problem - they never had balls with just about anything.
(In response to this post by HokieNoVA)
3y
... who ever Miami wanted.
(In response to this post by 133193Hokie)
3y
A gift that keeps on giving.
(In response to this post by Atlee Hokie)
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VTCALS72
3y
Miami was the dictator of the move and the ACC was the dictatee. That also may have been the time that Miami could have gone to the SEC and taken FSU with them.
So the real question is "what else could the ACC have done?" The answer is nothing.
(In response to this post by 133193Hokie)
3y
had a voting block that was not going to allow any schools from a state that they already had a member school in. Miami had no choice.
The ACC had a couple choices:
(1) Stay pat and tell Miami that they can stay in the Big East
(2) Tell Miami, we are adding VT and WVU and you can stay in the Big East until you are ready to see the light
(3) Tell Miami it is VT, WVU and Miami - and we will look at BC and Syr in the near future and make a decision later.
** Edited by 133193Hokie at 5/22/2023, 12:41:38 PM
(In response to this post by VTCALS72)
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VTCALS72
3y
If the ACC stayed pat, remember the BE was a better football conference at the time. Had the ACC not come raiding, the BE might have been the survivor, despite Trangese, and not the ACC.
The ACC was not going to pro actively add either VT of WVU. To even bring up is farfetched. Here is your reality. VT was seen as a school that could win, but by taking players that otherwise would go to UVA, UNC or NCSU. Someone on here quoted Terry Holland on this just a day or 2.
Miami held more cards than the ACC at that time. That is the bottom line.
(In response to this post by 133193Hokie)
3y
as the 167th biggest draw in that market.
(In response to this post by 133193Hokie)
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RJHokie
3y
And WV pretty much cooked its own goose by allowing extremely bad fan behavior wrt opponent fans at Morgantown.
And the “academic card” was played as well against WV even though UNCheat was in the midst of allowing significant academic fraud for its athletes and Duke still sends a fair number of its players across town to North Carolina Central University for classes.
(In response to this post by HokieNoVA)
3y
for athletes. That's beyond comedy.
(In response to this post by RJHokie)
3y
also the ACC had dossiers prepared on Syracuse, BC and Miami in the late 90s, if John Markon (RTD) is to be believed.
(In response to this post by HokieNoVA)
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Stech
3y
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3y
All the Big 10 people I know are saying "What the hell? That's nuts" about UCLA and USC joining.
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Stech
3y
Virginia Tech games against the SEC have all been fantastic! Now can we get out of this GOR, that's another story, and like you said, the fans don't make this decision, but his statement is off from what I have experienced. By the way, I think that WVU in either the ACC or SEC would be good fit too. Both fan bases have a strong passion for football.
(In response to this post by mancunian)
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hokieZ71
3y
The SEC would just take everything the B1G could potentially add from the ACC to keep its footprint totally under its control.
Miami, FSU, Clemson, GT, UNC, NCST, VT, UVA
(In response to this post by HokiePail)
3y
Louisville screams "Big XII" school, in my opinion.
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hokieZ71
3y
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VTCALS72
3y
Seems to me the only way the Mag 7 make it into the Big 2 is if those conferences choose to do ratings battle against each other in what is now the ACC footprint.
If you notice, right now each of the big 2 have their own geographic areas apart from each other with very little in the way of the SEC and the Big going head to head.
(In response to this post by HokiePail)
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2hhoop3
3y
the B1G is capable of doing battle with the SEC is revenue. They get smoked between the lines in virtually every sport of any real consequence that both sponsor.
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VTCALS72
3y
what happens between the lines has been smoked by the money. That means what the B2/TV and advertisers see as the future money, not necessarily the past, is what matters. But to be sure, I mean say Clemson vs Ohio St in the same time slot battling South Carolina vs Alabama for viewship . Or FSU and Miami vs Michigan or Penn ST in a ratings battle against Florida vs Georgia. or LSU.
From a football only perspective, If (big if) the B10 wants those battles, then that will open up spots for say UNC, Clemson, FSU and maybe Miami. Or maybe the SEC pulls that trigger first to prevent the B10 from encroaching on their territory.
Also, IMHO that is the most likely path for VT to be included, a preemptive strike by the Big into formerly SEC territory and takes UNC, which I think would be the most valuable piece to win this turf war. The SEC would, again IMHO move to challenge for dominance in DMV, Richmond, 757 and Charlotte by taking say NCSU and VT or UVA.
(In response to this post by 2hhoop3)
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2hhoop3
3y
money will create new alignments but, money does not replace what goes on within the lines. No one remembers who the biggest money programs were in the early 2000s but, they remember who won the championships. Money without results ultimately leads to mocking and derision which is where the B1G is at present. The reality, at least IMO, is that the B1G is thought of as only Ohio State in football and an overrated, massive choke job in basketball. Most consider it a wrestling conference.
(In response to this post by VTCALS72)
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VTCALS72
3y
But right now it is not what is going on within the lines that is driving the bus. The people who are mocking and deriding the BIG wish they were a part. Most consider it a wrestling conference? Please, a wrestling conference would not be paid like the Big is.
(In response to this post by 2hhoop3)
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2hhoop3
3y
mocking and deriding the B1G have little, if any, desire to actually be a part of that conference. The only people not mocking them these days are fans of schools already feeding at the B1G trough. What they are getting paid for has very little connection to what they are known as. They are paid for the eyeballs associated with their large, alumni dominated fan bases. They are known as a wrestling conference in large part.
(In response to this post by VTCALS72)
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VTCALS72
3y
and the markets those eyeballs are in IS the thing. That is the aim of the advertisers IMHO, to stop paying for schools like Wake, BC, and to some degree, UVA, VT, NCSU etc and pour those $$$ into a few teams that have those eyeballs.
(In response to this post by 2hhoop3)
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2hhoop3
3y
but, advertisers do not pay in perpetuity for losing brands nor do fans gladly accept never winning forever. No conference has done less with more than the B1G in this century. Delaney was a master at stuffing the wallet, however, the production of their programs, particularly the two men's revenue sports, is largely a dry well.
(In response to this post by VTCALS72)
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VTCALS72
3y
Their eyeballs and full stadiums and full wallets say a lot though.
(In response to this post by 2hhoop3)
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2hhoop3
3y
right now though and IF the B1G does not start winning they become more irrelevant in the eyes of the general public and, at some point, in the eyes of their own fans.
(In response to this post by VTCALS72)
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VTCALS72
3y
now or in the immediate future.
(In response to this post by 2hhoop3)
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2hhoop3
3y
disagreement about how far down the road the future might be. Their basketball has been largely propped up for the entire century because they are a media partner of CBS. Without being overrated, overbid and overseeded and Tom Izzo and the Spartans they are 5 of 5 in hoops. In football they are 3 or 4. With the exception of Ohio State football they really have nothing and the fact is USC and UCLA, even as bad as they have been, likely upgrade the B1G on the field and court.
(In response to this post by VTCALS72)
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hokieZ71
3y
Kansas is like Duke with football potential. (They packed the Orange Bowl in 2007…what a bummer that game was…we were so much better than them)
(In response to this post by MrFantastic!)