Q does maryland bring in dmv as the preeminent brand amd do they have the base?? I disagree- especially with vt huge physical prescence in va and dc and huge alumni base . Actually several marketing firms cited that vt and md is albout 50 50 in support . And base from uva and other acc achools i think dmv is a battlefield However acc again made a terible error in locating hq - they put it in charlotte -entirely safe instead of dc and placing their flag rhere. Big 10 marketing in chicago underatand that well. Vt can fight and compete well in dmv but would help if rhe acc would help

makes the most money. I still think empty stadiums in NFL areas like Rutgers, Maryland, UCLA and to a lesser degree USC-w, will in the long run be a big mistake. Those areas watch on Sunday in Northern New Jersey/NYC, Baltimore/Washington and in LA. The SEC does great in NYC, because rivalry games are the most fun to watch. The ACC gets this in basketball, but somehow gets hit with the stupid stick for football.

Get diminishing returns for every “football” school they add at this point. Been saying this for a while now. The P2/3 want a MUCH larger share of the basketball $

WVU instantly adds rivalries wit VT, Pitt, and Syracuse. Cinn with Louisville. Mistake to pass on that. ** Edited by HOO86 at 3/13/2023, 9:40:35 PM

would be way more successful. Maybe it’s because of the Presidents or maybe it’s because ESPN wants the Conference to stop being a Power Conference and it just wants the football first schools to go to the SEC. Something so obvious to help them as WVU and Cincinnati, and yet, they do absolutely NOTHING!!!

A twenty year TV contract anchored with a comparable GOR would logically be seen as relatively benign. By anyone not extremely savvy on all the possible negative legal implications in a strictly enforced contract of that length. Of course the average ACC fan would just see that ACCN as a rather high priced conference absolute necessity. The average ACC fan was not licensed as an attorney or a highly paid bureaucrat as Swofford. However all those people were on hire by the ACC to make sure a contact like that was never signed. They all knew better! Why did they accept a deal like that from ESPN. Money probably went under the table. Avid ACC fans can argue that GOR is the only thing now holding the ACC together at the present moment. They would be correct. However I will argue that that GOR also destroyed the ACC and only ever will eventually benefit ESPN. That GOR has kept the ACC from adding schools from other collapsing conferences, those being the Big 12 and Pac of late. Adding those schools would have required ESPN to allow the renegotiation of that 2036 contract. ESPN obviously just always refused doing that. Phillips cannot make ESPN do that. That all is going to eventually destroy the ACC to ultimately benefit the Big 12. Adding schools when the ACC was strong with FSU & Clemson would have saved the ACC. The B1G & SEC are the chosen conferences. Chosen by the media moguls. They needed a third conference for the FBS lower tier schools. The moguls at ESPN chose the Big 12 over the Pac & ACC.

When SEC was getting a network the same whiny folks made noise FSU, Clemson demanded we get the Network as well and get the big money. It was the THANG. They didnt know or care what it takes to get a network. ACC has a nice contract with ESPN, but he ACC demanded a network. So ESPN said great, instead of raising your Rights and giving your members a check, we will invest your money over time on the network. and the capital and see what happens. Probably the ACC Network probably didnt fit for ACC, and been better with a larger up front check every year, than a reduced amount and no ACCN

The "brand on brand" system has been a goldmine for The SEC. But it has it's limits. In the confines of The SEC footprint, advertisers have lots of attractive games to choose, but those ads reach the same population of viewers over and over and over. That was not a problem for ESPN when they also had The B1G and The PAC (maybe.) Market on market could be the description of what The B1G's media group is seeking. We often say that The SEC need not expand with Georgia Tech because Georgia gives them 90% of that state already. That doesn't mean 90 % of the 11 million residents of Georgia. It means 90% of the football viewing public for any particular game. But that game lasts for the duration of one broadcast window. In another window on that same day, GT could play a game and attract a subset of those same football views, surely a smaller number. The ad buyers might not wish to duplicate their ads on the GT game. But this is how two schools like GT and Northwestern (definitely not football brands) can make hay because they are in large markets. The ad buyer might be willing to spend on the GT game if the other half of TV audience is in Chicago. It's why Miami my be more valuable than some think. Also consider Arizona State, Stanford, even USF. P.S. I have not watched very much of Outkick/Josh Pate. But I saw a video he did yesterday about Greg Sankey which makes me worry for The SEC (yes worry) and to form a not-so-favorable opinion of that reporter. Not right for this thread.

He just happen to inherit a gold mine conference in the sec and has coasted when he could had stepped on the peddle and left all conferences behind. Big ten has been nowhere near the sec on field success and following, yet has found its way more successful than the sec; by way of pioneering the conference tv channel, closing a tv deal with multiple major networks (avoiding one network owning them), remaining true to academics in their members, picking members who have both markets and brand appeal with large alumni base and of course their latest west coast venture addition. These moves have put them better than the sec purely by commissioner(s) management. It’s unbelievable our ACC AD’s couldn’t come together to vote out Swofford years ago. It’s hard to avoid not blaming our own members AD’s during those years. Luckily we are fortunate to have Jim Phillips today. However, it’s very scary that nothing has been said yet on who the big tens next commissioner is. Jim Phillips is currently the best active commissioner and he has big ten background. Any rumors or ideas who the big ten is trying to hire? I feel the more quiet it is, the more realistic it’s Jim Phillips ** Edited by HokieInTampaFL at 3/13/2023, 9:47:41 PM ** Edited by HokieInTampaFL at 3/13/2023, 9:48:09 PM

I saw the Pate video where Sankey appeared to be asking for a truce for a collegiate get together against unnamed outside forces. The SEC took Texas & Oklahoma. They will soon be dishing out somewhere around $100 Million to each of those two. Those two must add to TV revenue to justify that. I think they both do. Will Oklahoma State, K State, Kansas and the Texas church schools justify that $100 Million share at the table. I think that answer is a resounding NO. Nobody in the SEC wants to go to Oregon & Washington, Colorado & Arizona to watch football games. Many reasons. Sankey cannot add FSU & Clemson in the foreseeable future. Sankey knows that. Why posture himself otherwise on expansion. I think the SEC will eventually take ACC schools to compensate what the B1G is doing out west. That may provide a slot for Virginia Tech. However that is all probably at least five years, if not closer to 10 years away. Sankey has plenty of time to get aggressive.

Greg Sankey's alter ego (Josh Pate) extends an olive branch to the next Commissioner of The Big Ten. Hmmm. Very ominous opening scene: "People are so scared of what The SEC could do. Did you ever stop to think about what they would do?" Yeah, Josh. We think about it almost every day. Later: J.P. reveals to us how sad Mr. Sankey felt when he was forced to expand with TX/OK. He didn't want to do it. Our leading actor portrays both sides of a dialogue wherein TX/OK plead with the Commissioner to save them. Sankey refuses twice before he finally relents in the face of their tears. It was either take them in or let them fall into the abyss of the Chicago Gang. You would do the same, if it were your decision, right? Anyone with the slightest sense of humanity would have rescued them just as Mr. Sankey did. If you dare to criticize him you are an oozing pustule on the lip of society. Greg Sankey continues regarding conference realignment: "We've done it well geographically; we've done it well from media positioning; and I'm not a recruiter; and I respect my colleagues." Now the very erudite linguist, our Mr. Pate, translates from the original Latin: "Even though FSU and Clemson may become available soon, The SEC is sittin' still for a while. What The SEC really wants is UNC and UVa. SEC could take plenty of schools if they wanted to, but they don't think it's prudent right now. If anyone, The B1G for example, should be so crude as to expand with FSU, or whomever, while The SEC is observing an appropriate quiet period, well that party is clearly a stinking recruiter and has no respect for our colleagues. (BTW were willing to stand down from FSU.)" Epilogue To this observer Sankey is signaling to the next B1G Commissioner that the two should collaborate behind the scenes to slice-up The ACC so that both conferences make out like bandits without having to do any expensive bidding. I guess that's unlawful (should be.) So Sankey mumbles innocuous nothings into his Pate-ophone and words come out the other side, which Sankey can rightly swear he never said. The two will also need to team-up to squeeze out the lion's share of revenue from the next playoff system, so let's remain pals until that gets done. Whether the world of college football cowers under the fear of what The SEC might do next might be viewed as an exaggeration by some. That statement and the one that about The SEC poaching any school they want give me the sense that The SEC is a rookie poker player over-representing his hand. The single fact that answers a bunch of questions is: is there a pro rata agreement between ESPN and The SEC? If not, then The SEC has absolutely none of that "leverage" that Mr. Pate referred to and they look surprisingly vulnerable. ESPN has them in a World Wide back pocket for the next ten years. Is The SEC waking up to a new reality? ACC II? Remember, ESPN is not your friend.

However he comes across more like a functional drunkard trying to outwit the cops in a beside the road sobriety test. Sankey has mentioned being first approached by Texas & Oklahoma until he sounds like a broke record. I remember hearing Mike Slive say the SEC was first approached by Texas A&M just one time. One time could be protecting the SEC against possible anti-trust lawsuits. However why does Sankey keep saying that? I think it because Sankey has a guilty conscious about knowing he will be known as one of the two men that directly caused the destruction of college football. The other will be the soon newly to be anointed B1G Commissioner. This all is money grab like the 2008 economic collapse. Some say this economy is now in a similar economic strait. The P2 are just parroting those hedge fund stock dealers & big banker execs. Sankey just needs to accept that or move on like Kevin Warren.

he repeats that line incessantly as if it is a disclaimer. The team calls the conference first. "USC called Big Ten first." "USC called Big Ten first." "USC called Big Ten first." "USC called Big Ten first." "USC called Big Ten first." I'm not even saying it's false. But it's like a political talking point. The more you hear it repeated in the same exact manner, the more peculiar it sounds. It's a bit suspect now to say the least. It's as if they are just trying to prevent a lawsuit. One thing for sure is, they aren't winning the PR battle here. ** Edited by Maroon Baboon at 3/14/2023, 10:54:30 PM

If Sankey approached Texas and suggested that they leave the XII he might be accused of tampering with the existing contract between TX and XII. So no matter who starts it, the public announcement must always be: The school approached the conference first. When FSU insists that they are acting entirely on their own, it's to prevent a perception that they are acting in conspiracy with other schools, a media company, or another conference. If other ACC schools follow FSU's path, FSU will declare that they never communicated their plans to any second party. Those schools made their own decision to leave. I think in this latest case for Sankey, he is sending indirect signals to ACC schools and The B1G that he is not interested in FSU, but in UNC/UVa instead. He is also telling The B1G that we should settle this redistribution before it causes a bidding war. The reason this bothers me is that it can be a sign of weakness by The SEC. His boast is that he could add lots of schools if he wanted to, but he prefers to sit still and let things settle. It's an indication that he can't even make a play for FSU, if they get away from The ACC. I knew the time would come when ESPN would leave Sankey hanging out to dry. I did not expect it to feel so eerie. I thought ESPN would take big damage as well. But no, ESPN has a path to prosperity if The ACC breaks.

1. Along the lines of your FSU comment, I also think Flugar repeated the disclaimer that USC and UCLA never talked. I find this one even more difficult to believe. We are just to believe that USC and UCLA were announced to have invites from the B1G and they were operating independently and coincidentally? Same city, shared rivalry, conference mates for a century? And they weren't coordinating? Sure, Jan. 2. I think when one conference "skims off the top" of a lesser conference, it becomes tempting to just keep the cream and not bother with the borderline candidates. Had the B1G taken USC, UCLA, UW and UO, no one would have thought anything of it. But now that the B1G already has USC, they are probably thinking "Do we really need UW and UO?" I think the ACC did the same thing when it took Miami. Had they taken Pitt and Syracuse at the same time, no one would have thought it was odd, and most everyone would have thought it was a power move. But when they went back for them years later, it just seemed like a "meh" addition. On this second point, that's why I think it is a mistake for the B1G to leave UW behind. I think they are good enough for the B1G. But when the B1G leaves them hanging out to dry, the UW brand is damaged. Ditto for the ACC-Pitt-Syracuse situation. My longstanding position is that the ACC should have taken all the Big East football schools en bloc, not piecemeal. And it should have taken West Virginia and even--gulp--Rutgers. I'll leave Temple out of it since they weren't a BB member of the Big East. I think if this had happened, the ACC would be in lot better place today, and we'd have even somehow kept Maryland ** Edited by Maroon Baboon at 3/17/2023, 1:33:48 AM

Seriously, if you take defensive moves against the B1G out of the equation, there is only 1 or 2 "great gets" for the SEC left out there--Notre Dame and North Carolina. The SEC doesn't need FSU and Clemson. There is nothing else the SEC is likely interested in from the ACC, Pac-12, Big-XII and G5s. It's like being First and Goal at the 1 and saying "We're going to continue to be aggressive here."

I do think the SEC would want a Virginia school as to establish a footprint in that rather large population state with regards to much higher cable TV rate returns. The Virginia school might pay for themselves right there. Especially with VT and DC market. Taking FSU & Clemson would not add much to the SEC. They already have Florida & South Carolina in those states. I guess some as Pate want to see Sankey talking about broadening conference horizons like Yormack & Warren with little prodding. I heard Sankey say several months ago that he was keeping a close eye on the surrounding college landscape with regards to expansion. Sankey said he was getting many phone calls from schools about SEC entry a few months before that close eye comment. I guess Pate wants Sankey to imply he can bust that ACC GOR.

In the SEC "it just means more." The fans turn up no matter what. It's actually a perfect slogan for them. The SEC has many great, long-standing series, but what makes their schedule great is the competitiveness and the passion. And in fact, many of these series are no longer played annually. But if two teams are great, but haven't played, they will likely be the ones to meet in the title game in Atlanta. No one has more rivalries than the Pac-12 (USC-UCLA, Wazzu-UW, UO-Oregon State, UA-ASU, Cal-Stanford) and they are about to be thrown on the ash-heap of history.

:-) The SEC has some of the smallest markets in the country, but pulls great ratings. The frickin Egg Bowl gets great ratings because of the rivalry between Ole Miss and Mississippi State. Sorry the PAC like the ACC it has too many NFL teams in the colleges backyard of the Universities to have the rivalries of the SEC. In fact if they did have the same eyeballs watching on TV, the PAC would not be losing two teams and very possibly more. ** Edited by Stech at 3/13/2023, 4:38:54 PM

Constant hype machines to pump up perception of the conferences in all sports. Basically a twist on the PAC branding “conf of champions “. But with the BIG and SEC it is about how they are all tougher and better than everyone else. And it covers basketball as well since the media deals include those games. Build the brands and make every game a must see matchup. This is a full on frontal assault across all sports at this point. Football was only the instigator.

games. You can believe the B1G/Warren is right l, but I think the SEC has it right with rivalry games. So does the ACC for basketball. By the way, Oregon with Nike is as big as a brand as you can get in sports, if it’s all about branding, how come the B1G wanted to pay less for them, or may not take them at all?

Oregon is Knight's plaything, not his income

I do know a little bit about sports branding having negotiated millions of dollars with some of the best known sports people/organizations on the planet. Back to the original point, he said it was more about the value of the brand of the school across all sports. If that is the case Stanford would be the most valued entity out there. No University has accomplished more than Stanford at the Athletic level. However, they are not going to make the most money. My point is that it's more about TV viewership for Football, the money maker. I love that Stanford is awesome in Golf and Academics, but that doesn't create TV money like Alabama or Ohio State do with football playoff teams. PS Now he is clarifying it's about branding for the Conference and not the team. In which I say branding of having the most successful football teams. However, the whole SEC is not winning National Championships, they have about 4 teams that do that, but because they have so many rivalry games too, they pull good ratings for Ole Miss and Mississippi State.

The biggest weakness for Oregon is that they are up in the northwest and have no other options. They either stay in PAC or go to BIG. That’s all they have for choices. since the BIG knows that Oregon wants to join, they have all the power and can slow play them. There is nothing to lose for the BIG. And to clarify, my comment about branding is not school specific. It is a conference brand that they are building. Basically “our conference is better top to bottom than everyone else”. It’s just a big marketing campaign.

Washington has over 45,000 students, and huge campus and research, really fits big 10 model.... Oregon is only about 18000 students,, and does not have a medical school or engineering. (engineering at Oregon State and medical school is one state medical school separate in Portland. However, Oregon has the Knight money as well as Nike funding. Nike makes a corporate decision on Oregon separate than the other brands. So Oregon gets top branding, (no matter what the others think) because its the founder's institution. (this is the same For Underamour and Maryland. Under Armor loses it shirt on Md stuff but since the founder goes there they will take a loss. VT really needs to have development types (in athletics) to reach out to our CEO's who lead Major corporations (Norfolk and Southern (maybe not now), and Boeing. and there seems to be a border between Amazon and VT as an university and Amazon and athletic branding...... I DONT KNOW WHY..

The SEC has both. The B1G has Ohio State Michigan, but will the UCLA and Rutgers football game pull eyeballs to the TV like Georgia Florida game? The Athens and Gainesville markets pale in comparison to the NJ/NYC and LA markets, but Florida Georgia will not only out draw TV eyeballs across the country. They will probably beat them in NJ/NYC and LA.

And IMO, there is a risk (or at least it's bad business) to what the B1G is doing. They are damaging the UW and UO brands as they are kept to twist in the wind. So in essence, the B1G is taking on damaged goods the longer they wait.

NCAA Tournament contract is CBS and Turner SEC has 14 schools and got 8 bids (57%). ESPN contract BIG has 14 schools and got 8 bids (57%). CBS and FOX and NBC contract B12 has 10 schools and got 7 bids (70%). ESPN and FOX contract ACC has 15 schools and got 5 bids (33%). ESPN contract PAC has 12 schools and got 4 bids (33%). TBD contract And two of those PAC schools are about to be BIG schools for CBS. Mountain West has 11 schools and got 4 bids (36%). CBS and FOX contract Big East has 11 schools and got 4 bids (36%). FOX contract Basically CBS and FOX are holding hands to prop up their big investments. And they threw a bone to ESPN for their main investment in order to keep them happy. ACC has no power and does not even have support from their media partner. At this point we are just barely above the floundering PAC. ACC is weak and can not stop anyone with our current contract and conference size. ** Edited by HokieAl at 3/13/2023, 11:03:35 AM

UNC, Clemson, FSU and Miami is the GOR holding off the split while they work on what the new much more "college" league would look like.

They are a tiny private school that puts maybe 6K of their fans into their home stadium, and maybe 500 into visiting stadiums out of state, and that's being very generous. Sorry, but they are a myth built on "hookers and blow."

And if the can ever get decent again, and they put money into the program for the first time ever last year with Mario et al, they attract a ton of eyeballs. They are a great asset for the ACC.

But they are only the 3rd-best brand in the state of Florida. I think they are more likely to wind up in the Big 12 than in the SEC or B1G. They would make a decent travel partner for UCF. ** Edited by tarheelblue at 3/13/2023, 4:36:03 PM