Interesting quote by the FSU president
FSU President says Seminoles will be "very aggressive" in conference realignment
The comments came in the aftermath of the Big Ten signing the largest media rights deal ever by a college athletic conference.
It's something I'm spending a lot of time on and we're getting a lot of help," McCollough said. "We're trying to do anything we can to think about how we remain competitive. Florida State is expected to win. We're going to be very aggressive."
60 Replies
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Stech
3y
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
3y
Lead the charge in getting the 10 or 12? votes needed to dissolve with all agreeing to form a new conference with a GOR until 2036 (in order to get the necessary votes). If you think the ACC is more valuable in the open market put your money where your mouth is. I bet it wouldnât fetch a significantly larger return one of the reasons being the network carriage ESPN got you goes away. Booting Wake and whoever else they can will provide some additional value per school, though.
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
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Mercury
3y
I like old days at the end of the Big East, when VT president led the effort to see if any of the presidents would even sign a paper to support the Big East. Show who is with us or against us.
Sounds like FSU is an out, therefore, shouldn't they be excluded in any strategic discussions about conference business. Why is the AD involved in any working group.
OBTW there is 2 steps of getting out of the ACC.
1. resolve the GOR, 8 votes?? 14 members. Duke no, Cuse no, BC No, Pitt No, VT No, UVA no, GT no, louisville no. so yes 6 and no 8. FSU. what influence do you have buddy......or money up 500 million to get out early.
2. then after the 500 million, they have to negotiate to leave the ACC, that is a 2 year process, (per contract they signed,) and another 50-60 million n the table.
Therefore for a program like FSU, with no money, how could they come up for political capital (they have none), 500 million and another 50-60 million to leave..
SORRY
(In response to this post by Colonel Jessup)
3y
Also, I think VT, UVA and GT would all be yes votes because they likely have a landing spot if the P2 grabs up the NC/VA/GA/SC/FL schools.
The only hard No votes are likely the small schools or ones who know their brand is not in demand, Wake, Cuse, BC, Pitt.
Not sure what Duke or L'ville would do.
I count 9 likely yes votes currently, 4 no, and 2 uncertain.
(In response to this post by Mercury)
3y
those 10+ schools will have a better home than the current ACC. the only way that happens is with the 10+ schools together under a different banner with a contract negotiated on the open market.
The 8 votes has been discussed on Twitter but Dave on here got info via FOIA. There is no clause about dissolving the GOR with 8. Requires 10 or 12 to pass a bylaw. And that would only happen in scenario I discussed above.
I donât see significantly more money with the 10/12 schools on open market. At least not enough for the schools #6 through 12 to disrupt status quo / ACC brand over a few dollars for the next decade and then into the abyss / Big 12.
(In response to this post by Mercury)
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2hhoop3
3y
that floated the Big East loyalty oath that did not fly. I am sure Charlie Steger had been consulted on his prior approval but, it never got beyond the ADs I think you will find.
(In response to this post by Mercury)
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Mercury
3y
You hit it right. They need to first get their inside operation in better shape. WIth a half baked coach, disfunction with the FUnd raising arm, with no institution control, and financial challenges, sounds like a leadership issue.
One snippy university president should say, hi XX president of FSU, you can look all you want, I would love to have a piece of your 500 million dollar check to the ACC. (as well as separation, fees).... bring it on.. buddy
FSU has always been a lose cannon, and weak brother to much more weathy institutions like University of Florida and Miami. Frankly they just came into existence in 1949. please.....
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
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Truthahn
3y
If they ever win the ACC, they will be very loud about how they deserve a better conference. At least they would have a bunch of loud boosters pushing for leaving somehow. They probably have that now, actually, which is why the admin is saying stuff like this.
FSU is a perfect example of an independent that lost their edge when joining a conference. Their schedules were full of 2 for 1 deals, and arrangements like playing VT "away" in Orlando. It took a while, but it eventually happened. They did have several years of great polls numbers in the 9 team ACC, I'm not confident that they will ever get back there at this point.
FSU should be worried that UCF doesn't overshadow them in the next five years, or else UCF might start looking better to everyone (including us). If FSU every left, we would probably go after UCF in a heartbeat and I'd feel pretty good about that as a replacement.
(In response to this post by Mercury)
3y
Orlando and Tampa are two of the largest growing markets in the US. The I4 corridor is much more popular place to visit than Tallahassee.
I have never really cared for FSU or Tallahassee. UF and Gainesville are ok but I would much rather spend a weekend in Orlando or Tampa than Tallahassee or Gainesville. I donât really enjoy going to Miami either.
(In response to this post by Truthahn)
3y
Joining the Big 12 will escalate that program to a high level. You have to wonder what happened at USF. They had a similar opportunity when they joined that Big East but it never happened for them. Now UCF has blown by them.
(In response to this post by OrlandoHokie)
3y
Granted, the Taggert hire was incredibly stupid (his past record was terrible) and massively set FSU back. But from the outside, it looks like FSU is struggling with the same issues that we had with Fuente. Good X and O coach, but not a P2 level title contender type guy.
Compare this to Miami who snagged a top level coach from another power program. And that is what the other big teams are doing as well. It seems that the key to a successful coaching hire at the P2 level is to either grab an existing P5 head coach with a great track record, or grab a long time P5 coordinator who understands success and recruiting at the top level and has a good track record.
This is why I'm excited about Pry and what he can do at VT. And is why I think FSU is just wasting time with Norvell.
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
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2hhoop3
3y
now is not much different than
his predecessor and the same can be said for their ADs pretty much all the way back to the poster child of ineptitude Dave Hart. They say a lot, do very little and what they do actually do usually ends up being wrong. Bobby Bowden built them a cash cow and they are rapidly squandering the resources due to administrative ineptitude.
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
3y
administrative ineptitude". There for a minute, I thought you were talking about the ACC ;-)
(In response to this post by 2hhoop3)
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2hhoop3
3y
to say it, however, I would like to hear what you would have done differently under the circumstances as they actually existed.
The ACC certainly has made questionable decisions and with the benefit of hindsight could have done some things to improve their current position. Changes in and independence of conference leadership and some deals that reek of cronyism and nepotism to name a few. However, a lot of where they are at is the nature of the conference makeup, a collection of big and small and public and private. I think in reality, Penn State has been the biggest decision and move they did not make that could have shifted the landscape. So I will ask you, even with the added benefit of hindsight now, what do you believe they should and/or could have done differently?
(In response to this post by 133193Hokie)
3y
1. I knew the ACC had no clue when during the first round of raiding the Big East, their pick was Miami, BC, Syr. I know the story that is who Miami wanted, but the ACC should have told Miami to pound sand and that they were going to pick the teams that were best for the conference as a whole.
2. That leads to this one. The ACC seems to "cater" to certain schools at times instead of doing what is best for the entire conference. The most recent example of this is with the new scheduling and the reports of Miami not wanting VT as a rival. I get Miami's "request" - I understand. But the ACC has VERY limited good football content - you have to maximize it at all costs.
3. The ACC needed to "compete" the ACCN. Even if the ultimate plan was to always go with ESPN, the ACC needed to make ESPN feel like they were competing in order to get a better deal than the one we have.
4. The ACC should have "forced" ND's hand with the football schedule 2 years ago.
5. Reports are that a few years ago, the ACC looked at "merging" with the PAC, but the ACC Presidents did not like the geographical distance. Now, the ACC would probably consider an ACC/PAC merger to be a good "survival" move - great timing, after the PAC has lost 2 of their most valuable pieces.
Up until about 10 years ago, the ACC was "on par" with the SEC/B1G, now they are way behind. I do agree with you, that given where the ACC is today, they dont have many good moves to make.
(In response to this post by 2hhoop3)
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2hhoop3
3y
On #1, the answer and approach COULD differ depending how Miami was viewed. If they were a must, which they probably were at the time, and they have other alternatives, which they did, it is doubtful the pound sand approach yields the desired result while giving them what they ask for with a sorry we do not have votes gets the desired result and no animosity. #2 I agree. #3 do we know they did not do that? Does it backfire if the bluff is called and result in a worse deal and a more acrimonious relationship? Yes, I realize the irony of that question with the benefit of hindsight but, I think at the time it had to at least be considered. #4 not really sure how they could have forced it. Moreover, not sure if it did not work what they are left with in terms of benefit. #5 agree that timing now is not opportune, especially if they rejected only two short years ago.
It is interesting that you pick 10 years ago because that pretty much coincides with the start up of the networks. I would also contend that even then in terms of demographics it is at least debatable whether the ACC was "on par" with the SEC or B1G. I do not believe that any of the 5 things you identified, even if entirely accurate, puts the ACC in a significantly different position than they now find themselves in but, I would be happy to consider how you see that differently.
(In response to this post by 133193Hokie)
3y
premier conference. Now they are not. To me that means that they were not a very well run organization over the last x number of years.
(In response to this post by 2hhoop3)
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2hhoop3
3y
that they were a premier conference but, doubt they were ever the premier conference. Where our opinions diverge is in what the real magnitude of their "not very well run" decisions had on the decline as opposed to demographics and circumstances largely in place before a good number of posters on this board were born and, in fact, before the ACC was even initially formed even though the impact would not really be felt or become evident until the aftermath of the OU/UGA/CFA decision in the early to mid 1980s.
(In response to this post by 133193Hokie)
3y
... 1953. Too many small private schools, coupled with the Tobacco Road centric nature, WF, Duke, NCSU and UNC. What UNC wanted from the UNC alum commissioner, UNC got.
And when the ACC expanded in 2001, it still got things wrong. Besides Miami, which in itself is a relatively small private school, Swofford wanted BC, a small private school, and Syracuse, relatively small and a hybrid public.private school.
The Big10 has one private school, and the SEC has 1 private school. The ACC is nearly half full of small private and private/public hybrids.
(In response to this post by 2hhoop3)
3y
In 2029-30. The ACC is quickly becoming one of the least stable conferences. ESPN better start throwing cash at you all. If ND signs a 60 million NBC contract and gets 10 million from the acc that will also provide more ammo for instability.
All very interesting.
** Edited by goldendomer at 8/21/2022, 1:24:26 PM
(In response to this post by 2hhoop3)
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Stech
3y
no TV Contract is more stable? If so, please explain.
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
3y
power conference. If these conferences want to continue existing, then they have to experience the same fate as the Big East conference which went from being a BCS conference/power conference to a non-power conference. At least I don't think the Big East is still considered to be a power conference in basketball.
(In response to this post by Stech)
3y
Like Texas not much overall results per advantages they have. The ACC Per GOR is currently probably not less stable. Itâll take another dominos. Itâll have nothing to do with ND either . ND has done all damage they can do.
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
3y
it comes across mostly as jealousy. Because any talk of results is easily disputed by recent records and playoff appearances as golden mentioned below (and has been said many times here).
ND has always been fairly transparent. They are looking out for themselves and always have been. There are no surprises there. The only thing that has changed is the other schools. In the past, schools would look out for their conference. Now it is every school for themselves, including VT.
And the ACC GOR is absolutely less stable. Each school sees their "peers" making $30 million more per year for the same types of results and investments. It breeds jealousy and a desire to keep up. The only thing holding back a school like FSU is being "stuck" in the ACC with our stupid GOR.
(In response to this post by MrFantastic!)
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Truthahn
3y
Something about the ACCN being "paid off" by then, hence a jump at that time. Projected payout for 2024/25 is between 52 - 55 million, up from our current high 30's (35-38 I think).
That is not far off of the Big 10's payout at that time (65M or so in that year, I think).
I rarely see anything authoritative on this, however. Hopefully this is right. There is so much FUD out there. If wrong, someone please feel free to cite the real numbers.
** Edited by Truthahn at 8/21/2022, 8:00:32 PM
(In response to this post by HokieAl)
3y
I just think their AD is an ass . If they join any league most their posters will eat their own words. I also think they need better performance . Not thrashed in playoffs . If thatâs not fair? Sorry but imho itâs true .
(In response to this post by HokieAl)
3y
... should exclude ND completely. They are going to the Big10 at the first opportunity that benefits ND.
(In response to this post by HokieAl)
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TerryD
3y
How many schools have a better record the past five years. ?
(In response to this post by MrFantastic!)
3y
Step up on big stage . You are ND win it all . Donât struggle with pee poor Acc teams . Donât get blown out each playoff event. Be something NBC gets moneyâs worth . 54-10 and five wins a year against the average schedule is nothing .
(In response to this post by TerryD)
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TerryD
3y
54 wins in five years is almost 11 wins a year, not 5.
(In response to this post by MrFantastic!)
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TerryD
3y
ND is 24-1 versus ACC teams in the last five regular seasons.
That is one hell of a struggle, I guess.
(In response to this post by MrFantastic!)
3y
paid employees and football breaks away from the NCAA that opens up a whole can of worms most colleges will walk away from. Agents, contracts, retirement, workmen's comp, no academic eligibility requirements, unions, and strikes. Schools going this direction will be NFL minor leagues and the other schools will form their own division with rules and restrictions.
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
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2hhoop3
3y
almost certainly becomes more likely with each passing year as the term to run on the original GOR shrinks and with the ending term on other agreements being currently renewed 29/30 is not an unreasonable guess. I am not sure outside of the SEC and B1G there is a significant advantage to any one conference in terms of stability but, there pressure points differ.
I would be interested to hear how you believe ND getting $60 million further adds to the instability. Anyone looking at the numbers ND produces can quickly surmise they are worth no where close to $60 million as an independent property and the only question is who is subsidizing the difference between their actual value and why. Most reading this board can probably come up with the top 2 or 3 reasons that may happen.
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
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hokieZ71
3y
ND is basically out. Yes, we understand that.
Everybody else is stuck in this mess for quite some time. Literally AT BEST through the entire next contracts of both the SEC and Big Ten and at worst through the next TWO contracts.
âAggressiveâ for those of us who remain might be trying to find and add something, anything we can. Cincinnati. West Virginia. Baylor. Kansas. 9 conference games. Premier ACC game each week on ESPN at Noon. Some way of adding something, anything to our revenue. $2M, $5M, $10M, whatever it takes to increase the bottom line while this GOR continues for what might as well be an eternity in major college athletics.
Again, I didnât read that as âwe are trying to get out right nowâ because only a fool would say that. Maybe heâs a fool though.
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
3y
is not going anywhere regardless of how much certain schools want it to go away. Better to focus on what they can do to increase revenue on their own.
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
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hokieZ71
3y
Specifically Florida State, Miami, Clemson and UNC.
The SEC isnt going to the West coast. They arenât going after Notre Dame.
But you know the B1G wants more on the East Coast than just Penn State. And I feel like the SEC would want to keep them out of the South East.
I wouldnât be too sad if VA became a border war state between the two.
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
Are both P2s just going to let the Pac 12-2 programs die on the vine?
This idea that two VA schools and two or more NC schools would be taken, but not Washington, Oregon, Arizona State and some others just seems nuts to me. I confess to not know all the numbers that go into these decisions, but still...
(In response to this post by hokieZ71)
3y
Arz.
Bottom line - a lot of "good" schools are going to be left out of the P2. But even if you cobble together most of those "good" schools into 1 or 2 other conferences they will still be WAY behind the P2 - I equate them to the LoL2 (left out little 2)
(In response to this post by Maroon Baboon)
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hokieZ71
3y
But Kevin Warren is so adamant about being national, that doesnât happen without Florida, Charlotte/Raleigh and ATL.
(In response to this post by Maroon Baboon)
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HOO86
3y
The ACC does need to be aggressive about expansion. Curious as to who he sees as good fits. I think USF would be a good fit, but they don't enhance the ACC Network. WVU and Cincinnati fit the need best IMO.
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
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HOO86
3y
But the reality is that the ACC doesn't benefit by adding in Florida. We need to add in new states. UAB would be worth more to us than UCF. But I'm advocating for WVU and Cincinnati due the new states as well as the Pre-existing rivalries. The WVU-Pitt game coming up is already sold out. Baylor-TCU is another potential rivalry to look at as well. Memphis-UAB is also another rivalry. But WVU-Cincinnati have them with existing ACC members. They should be first.
(In response to this post by cricket77)
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Truthahn
3y
WVU and OK State are the big crowd teams.
Texas teams and Cincinnati are the two big state teams. We just need one per state, though, to get an boost in ACCN rates for that state.
I'd be fine with WVU+Cincinnati or OK State+Baylor right now (fairly close to five major Texas cities, 45K+ crowds, great team), or all four.
(In response to this post by HOO86)
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Stech
3y
they look like theyâre doing nothing.
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
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Mercury
3y
Second tier to the base of Florida and Miami..
FSU presidents have been a idols of big mouth and no leadership. One of them were appointed by the governor and didnt even have any academic experience. Its frankly a HACK school. (FSU talks alot, but 1) Florida doesn't really want them in the SEC), and 2) They are not the culture of the Big 10. (I see big 10 fishing for Miami versus FSU)..
(In response to this post by Stech)
3y
Contract will cause issues for the conference. If a pillar of the conference says they are working actively on realignment while in a conference that does not add to stability. Presidents deal with a thousand things and him saying he spends a considerable amount of time on this issue speaks loudly. It doesn't fit your narrative I know, but it is not adding to stability.
** Edited by goldendomer at 8/21/2022, 12:42:07 PM
(In response to this post by Stech)
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Stech
3y
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
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hokieZ71
3y
His best bets are 1) Get FSU winning again and 2) Go talk to other presidents of universities in Texas and Ohio about joining.
If he really wants to be aggressive.
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
3y
question.
(In response to this post by hokieZ71)
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Stech
3y
(In response to this post by 133193Hokie)
3y
some point.
(In response to this post by Stech)
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hokieZ71
3y
Texas, Oklahoma, USC and UCLA are staying in their conferences for an extra year or two because they don't want to pay penalties in the tens of millions.
Over here in the ACC we are talking about well over a decade left and penalties that can aptly be measured in billions.
(In response to this post by 133193Hokie)
3y
afford the revenue gap for the next 14 years if they want to survive. To put it into perspective after 14 years Clem has lost revenue stream of approx $800m - 980m to USC. Same goes for FSU/Miami to UF. Same goes for VT to UMd. etc
It may be a while, but at some point (maybe 5-8 years from now - who knows) one of the "big" brands will leave the ACC - they just can not afford to not leave. Yes, they may still "serve out" the term of the GOR just like TX/Okl/etc. The only other option is that the B1G and SEC just starve the ACC schools to death until they are basically irreverent any way.
** Edited by 133193Hokie at 8/21/2022, 2:38:48 PM
(In response to this post by hokieZ71)
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Truthahn
3y
FSU might be one of the least attractive teams by then. I think their bluster now is because they worried about just that. Some boosters are pushing their administration to fix it quick, even though that is not possible.
(In response to this post by 133193Hokie)
3y
in next 14 years for the program to survive?
(In response to this post by 133193Hokie)