Any metrics gurus able to post the differential of Hammond vs Neo at point?
Understand Mike Young is likely in a bind given whatever promises were made to Neo…but the “eye test” says we are a completely different team both offensively (and defensively) with Hammond on the floor running the offense. The insistence on bringing Hammond off the bench seems to be backfiring big time and likely cost us the game yesterday. I also understand there’s an argument to be made that Hammond is playing well because he’s coming off the bench…but I don’t really buy that. Curious what the metrics say.
43 Replies
6mo
don't start both? I get with the way the last couple games have gone you could make the case we want Hammond in there more than Neo but you're still best off probably staggering them and I think Hammond's playing style begets a few more breathers.
(In response to this post by VTBB)
6mo
Neo presents different challenges to a defense given his size, passing ability, etc... he's obviously a skilled big guard that's still learning the in's and out's of playing the point, big upside to his game.
There's a level of comfort Hammond has running the point, he's spent his basketball career in that position, and it shows. I personally like Neo better as the off guard, with Hammond at the point... but there's definitely advantages to having them both run that position.
(In response to this post by VTBB)
6mo
Neo opens up a lot of options for the other 4 with his size and skill. Hammond opens up a lot of options for the other 4 with his speed and quickness. Then to finish games we get them both out there to really stress the other D. Seems to be working well. We have played two close ACC games. Wake and Virginia are two tough opponents.
(In response to this post by VTBB)
6mo
That may change when guys come back from injury, but right now they’re 2 of our 3 best players.
Other teams don’t sit their 3rd best player because he plays the same role as their 2nd best player.
(In response to this post by VTBB)
6mo
Until his senior year when he didnt start a single game because Trey Kaufman-Renn played better with Zach Edey than Gillis
Gillis was a better player than 2 of their starters but for the sake of how they balanced resting their starters he played a key role as a reserve instead
Many teams do this. The notion that no one does is far from the truth, especially at PG
(In response to this post by soflahokie)
6mo
has potential to be a really good player and I really like his physicality, but do you really think lineups with him on the floor are our strongest lineups right now? Even in the dark ages when I played (high school) basketball, the "6th man" was important for lineup stability when subs happened. Coaches would preach that "it doesn't matter who starts, it matters who finishes."
I (and others, judging by the message board) thought that he should have come in sooner in the second half. However, I also wondered if the minutes from Wednesday caught up to him.
(In response to this post by VTBB)
6mo
Whether someone is on the floor to start the game or not doesnt matter. How many minutes you play does matter. He played the same number of minutes as Hansberry and Gurdak which was 4th on the team and right in line with where a starting PG would play on most teams
(In response to this post by VTBB)
6mo
how effective or not they were.
But you knew that.
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
6mo
But...maybe you knew that, maybe not
(In response to this post by King of Hokies)
6mo
suggested Hammond should be starting by taking about how many minutes he got. Exactly.
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
6mo
We are talking about starting vs coming off the bench
(In response to this post by King of Hokies)
6mo
We dug ourselves a huge hole before the first TV timeout and Neo got battered mentally to the point he was a passenger for the majority of the game. Neo was exposed to a new look from the defense that resulted in 4 turnovers in a row, Hammond would have mitigated that by providing a secondary ball handler.
Our bigs got multiple cheap fouls trying to chase the game early, Hansberry’s rebound foul and Gurdak moving screen were because we were pressing.
Say “it’s the total minutes” all you want but that wasn’t the case yesterday. Hammond doesn’t have to exhaust himself leading a comeback if he just starts the game on the front foot.
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
6mo
Then someone has to be subbed out...
Are you taking out Schutt? Bedford?
If so, you just replaced 1 turnover with 1 turnover
Are you sitting Avdalas to start Hammond? No...of course youre not and we shouldn't pretend anyone would have the ability to see into the future to make that move
So again...moving Hammond into the starting lineup does nothing to help those first 10 minutes and aligns your rotation to either have both Hammond and Avdalas sitting at the same time or having either one or both of them playing while tired after a triple OT game
Its just bad logic
(In response to this post by soflahokie)
6mo
Both him and Hammond had huge games against UVA, but Wakes tallest player is 6’9 and all he can do is shoot 3s. We all know Wakes game is take 3s and try to out-athlete you, Gurdak only makes sense if you think you’re going to impose your will down low.
Had MY known Wake would come out on defense like and force Neo to pass the ball 30 feet from the basket I assume he would’ve adjusted. MY loves playing 2 “bigs”, but when we’re down 3 of our 4 best forwards you probably need to lean more on your wing depth and less on trying to play your only 2 true bigs at the same time. Neo can and probably should guard 3/4s more given his foot speed.
Too late now and other games will be different, but MY has playing Forbes a dozen times and his Wake teams have always played like this. Putting your slowest and least athletic possible lineup on the floor to start was a mistake
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
6mo
However, that still wouldn't put Hammond on the floor and still doesnt take away the two players who combined for 14 turnovers (Avdalas and Hansberry)
Taking away Gurdak makes Neo the 4 presumably...which is fine with me if he has reps there in practice. But even Johnson playing the 4 has shown some hiccups to the flow of the offense even from not realizing hes supposed to be the one taking the ball out after a basket.
The truth is, there is not an easy plug and play to substitute Hammond in the starting lineup as the roster stands. If Pasha continues to come along you could absolutely do it to cover the times Hammond and Avdalas need breaks or are in foul trouble. But until then it doesnt make any sense to make a change for an imaginary bump in play they were already getting elsewhere in the game.
Hammond might be the best PG VT has, but Avdalas is by far the best player. VT made assurances to him to help his career and that helped him choose VT. Going back on that ensures VT will never sniff a player of his caliber ever again.
VT is keeping Hammond satiated by playing him starter minutes even if he isnt the starting PG. It is the best possible scenario for VT at that spot....for now and the long term.
I have stated before (after the UVA game, even) that Avdalas needs to move off the ball more. But there are reasons why that cant and shouldn't be at the start of the game, as Ive detailed over and over
(In response to this post by soflahokie)
6mo
Schutt most of the time for both offensive and defensive purposes.
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
6mo
Has nothing to do with Hammond and again doesnt solve the issue of needing to stagger Avdalas and Hammond as your only 2 primary ball handlers
(In response to this post by King of Hokies)
6mo
begin the game.
Young is playing a PR game with Neo's agent/family/self that isn't helping VT at the moment.
(In response to this post by soflahokie)
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Vippie1
6mo
about pushing off on his bad ankle and it effected him in the first few minutes, his bad. He obviously got more comfortable as the game went on. In retrospect maybe he should have started off ball on the wing until he got more sure of himself.
It still goes without saying we are almost always better with Neo on the court 99 percent of the time. Of course we would like the first 5 minutes back but to go as far as to suggest CMY judgement is compromised by anything other then trying to win a game....i know you to be a much better poster then that.
(In response to this post by King of Hokies)
6mo
wasn't the point.
The point is that Hammond is probably our best PG and why.
(In response to this post by Vippie1)
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Vippie1
6mo
minutes it doesn't matter to me.
(In response to this post by King of Hokies)
6mo
start possible and want to have their best matchups on the court for the most amount of time.
So, it matters.
** Edited by King of Hokies at 1/4/2026, 5:44:23 PM
(In response to this post by Vippie1)
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Vippie1
6mo
Especially when the other side is a bit winded
(In response to this post by King of Hokies)
6mo
i thought it was an all game issue - he just seemed slower to me.
(In response to this post by Vippie1)
6mo
And isn’t something that even advanced analytics could realistically capture. Obviously there’s no way to definitely say, but we played behind almost the entire game because Wake Forest jumped on us from the start. If we jump on them, think that game plays out very differently…overall, I think we were the better team.
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
6mo
Neo was a turnover machine in the first 5 minutes and it led directly to the early lead for WF.
(In response to this post by VTBB)
6mo
If you have him at the beginning and lose him elsewhere then you still lose the production in those minutes he isnt on the floor
The only 2 players who had more than 1 turnover in the whole game yesterday were Avdalas and Hansberry. You're not sitting either of those players to start Hammond. So youre going to be left with the exact same issues as VT had by not starting Hammond.
He had more than enough opportunity to have an effect on the game.
(In response to this post by VTBB)
6mo
would've been the same whether or not Hammond was on the floor. It was specifically designed for Avdalas' ball-screen actions with Hansberry and Gurdak. VT could've attacked it differently with Hammond, but I'm not sure it would've changed much as a team because it's not like Avdalas is going to go multiple possessions without handling the ball. At some point, it would've become an issue, and the problems would've been the same.
Certainly a learning experience for Neo. It will be interesting to see how other ACC teams try different (or similar) things against him defensively.
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
6mo
defense against him is different. For example you have the ability to run all kinds of off- ball screens to free him up before even giving him the ball.
You can't just say they'd defend him the same.
** Edited by King of Hokies at 1/4/2026, 3:59:02 PM
(In response to this post by David Cunningham)
6mo
As a PG he gives the ball up early and runs off many off ball screens and actions just the same as if he is not the primary ball handler
(In response to this post by King of Hokies)
6mo
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
6mo
The PG just also brings the ball up the floor
(In response to this post by King of Hokies)
6mo
Plenty of lineups with those three in the game at the same time…hence my original question in this thread. I’m sure Mike Young’s answer would be because of the injuries, we are just limited on minutes as a whole…but he’s been doing this the entire season.
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
6mo
He doesnt start for a couple reasons:
1) because of promises made for Avdalas's development
2) because you want to stagger Hammond and Avdalas's minutes so that you limit any amount of time both might be resting
(In response to this post by VTBB)
6mo
(In response to this post by GCHokie34)
6mo
The score was 21-14 and I think we had a 14-0 run with Neo out and Hammond in. I’m hoping that the deal with Neo includes less time running the point late in the season. Of course, Neo will also continue to get better running the point as the season progresses.
(In response to this post by VTBB)
D
DCL
6mo
(In response to this post by VTKev80)