Simplistic theory about expansion. Currently the SEC has teams in 12
states, while the Big Ten covers 14 states now that Washington, Oregon, and California have been added. If you are worried about adverse federal legislation and want the Senate to be able to block it, you realistically need at least 26 states represented. The political objective is to assemble enough “college football–friendly” senators to form a reliable blocking coalition.
It is highly uncertain whether California’s senators would go to bat for USC and UCLA, given how those moves affected other in‑state schools. Oregon and Washington might be somewhat more sympathetic to Oregon State and Washington State, but even that is far from guaranteed. Florida State and Clemson are valuable properties and will find homes in the P2 regardless, but from this specific political‑coverage perspective they are somewhat redundant.
This puts Virginia and North Carolina at the center of the expansion logic. Each state has two linchpin public universities, and the companion schools are not a substantial drop‑off from the premier brands. In Virginia, it is essentially a coin flip among the top options. In North Carolina, NC State is a notch below UNC as a brand, but far more attractive in relative terms than Oregon State or Washington State. At present, there are 23 states whose senators should be unambiguously pro–college football. Adding Virginia and North Carolina via UNC, UVA, Virginia Tech, and NC State would raise that number to 25.
Arizona is a plausible additional target. The Arizona schools appear to be better television and political draws than Kansas and Kansas State. After (or alongside) the Arizona schools, a logical next move is to bring in Cal and Stanford. Georgia Tech may also be pulled in to shore up support from Georgia’s senators. Georgia is heavily dominated by UGA, but you could still imagine a disgruntled senator scenario akin to Ann Richards going to bat for Baylor as Texas governor, which suggests conferences may want a bit of cushion via an extra in‑state addition.
This political logic is why I feel reasonably optimistic about VT's chances—less because of administrative competence and more because of structural incentives.
Political science perspectives would be welcome here.
My base prediction is that the “Magnificent Seven” (FSU, Miami, Clemson, UNC, VT, UVA, and NC State) ultimately land in the P2. Georgia Tech likely gets added to reinforce Georgia; Arizona and Arizona State, and/or Cal and Stanford, round out the next wave. If you want to lock in 26 pairs of senators, Arizona is the most likely route. Utah and BYU are problematic: they are constantly at odds with each other, and BYU is private. If you prioritize political protection (first objective) and avoid excessively dilutive companion schools (second objective), Virginia and North Carolina look like the highest‑probability additions.
I expect there will ultimately be 10 additions to the P2, taking the total from 34 to at least 44: the Mag 7, Georgia Tech, Arizona, and Arizona State. That level of consolidation likely pushes Notre Dame to join rather than risk being disadvantaged again. Notre Dame would probably want Stanford and Cal attached, which pushes the count of “locked‑in” states to 27. At that point, Kansas and Duke are logical additional picks (or Utah instead of one of them). A 48‑team P2 looks like a plausible upper bound.
West Virginia is a potential dark horse. WVU occupies one slot but brings two senators, which is attractive if the conferences prefer not to add the Arizona schools. If the Big Ten and SEC can coexist rather than cannibalize each other, they jointly need to lock down roughly 27 pairs of senators to dictate future legislation. If 60 total votes are required and the filibuster is in play, then the Mag 7 plus various other combinations can reach the blocking threshold. Under a filibuster scenario, some otherwise unexpected teams—WVU, Oregon State, Washington State—could enter the picture, which sounds far‑fetched but is not impossible.
There are also potential leverage plays. Could Iowa’s, Georgia’s, or Kentucky’s senators insist on Iowa State, Georgia Tech, or Louisville as conditions? Assuming Colorado can be admitted without bringing Colorado State, Colorado might be squeezed in on similar logic to WVU. My guess is that Oregon’s and Washington’s senators will not block an expansion that disadvantages Oregon State and Washington State; that was implicitly the political deal when Oregon and Washington were accepted into the Big Ten. In this scenario, you would have 27 pairs of senators and seven additional teams (41 total) but still need three more pairs of senators to feel secure. If the filibuster is relevant, expansion within the SEC (to 16) and Big Ten (to 18) moves the combined total closer to 48.
It is difficult to reach 30 pairs of senators without having roughly 48 total P2 teams, which implies adding about 14 new members. As always, politics resembles watching sausage being made, and the final alignment will be messy. Within that messy process, Virginia Tech looks particularly well positioned if the numbers grow, which I think they will.
** Edited by TDVick at 7/3/2026, 5:13:40 PM
** Edited by TDVick at 7/3/2026, 5:21:44 PM
24 Replies
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Vippie1
3w
however my view is that expansion largely wont be necessary . The best example I can think of is MLB where not all franchises are economically equal like the NFL is more or less. It is accepted that NY and LA a few others start on third base .
The P2 understand the game of rolling over everyone else is likely done. They just want to maximize their advantage in whatever is coming. I think whatever ultimately is done in the end will allow the FSU Clemson's UNC (VT) etc. to be close enough that they wont need to be in the P2.
(In response to this post by TDVick)
3w
football programs, if it's even possible to save them at this point, will be forward thinking anticipation and readiness to respond to a radical change in the media rights landscape.
The SEC and B1G are only able to exercise leverage over everyone else in the Darwinian fashion they do because FOX and Disney pay them more money than everyone else and more-or-less only put SEC/B1G programs on OTA broadcasts where the vast majority of casual, non-affiliated viewers can see them play. Big FOX and Disney are legacy media broadcast companies who have spent their entire existence operating in what is now a rapidly dying paradigm. Just like the tech companies have basically upended and killed Hollywood's business model that worked for 100 years, in the end, they're going to do the same thing to FOX and Disney's live sports operations as well. Whoever figures out how to best navigate that money game first will be in the catbird seat.
(In response to this post by Vippie1)
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Vippie1
3w
And that aint happening , because although we live in a world where it is presently unable to get 51-60+ senators to agree to do ANYTHING in a bipartisan manner, sports is probably the one exception where they can grandstand and look like the heroes.
And there is a big enough aggregate constituency of non P2 athletic programs stakeholders out there that to force a solution preventing them from collectively dying- no matter what the networks or P2 may prefer. And I'll say for the umpteenth time, this doesnt mean the other schools are going to be "equal" to the P2 , just that a structure will exist that will allow conferences like the ACC and B12 and its members to be viable. This is all going to be a protracted negotiated "settlement" and wont be subject to the forces of unbridled capitalism that may have doomed parts of Hollywood or Betamax machines.
(In response to this post by Baltimore_Hokie)
3w
their regular seasons are vastly different in terms of the number of regular season games teams play. MLB plays 162 games, so it would be more difficult for the owners to take advantage of the antitrust exemption in the Sports Broadcasting Act of 1961. Hence why teams are free to negotiate their own regional TV contracts. Whereas the NFL only plays 17 (soon to be 18?) regular season games. It makes cents (or sense) that the owners would want to take advantage of the antitrust exemptions in the Sports Broadcasting Act of 1961, so they can negotiate national contracts at the expense of teams being able to negotiate their own contracts (aka regional contracts). Since the NBA and NHL play 82 regular season games, both leagues opted to go the MLB route instead of the NFL route.
The reason I mention this is because college football regular season is only 12 or 13 (if they play at Hawai'i) games, which aligns more with the NFL model. While college basketball plays about 30 regular season games, which could lean it towards the MLB model. However, 30 games may not be too large for the NFL model to still work if the schools wanted to go that route. If the P2s hold any advantage in this new world, then it may not be the kind of advantage you typically associate with the MLB teams. Instead, it may be more like the marketing advantages you see with NFL teams (i.e. Cowboys) because enough of the schools voted to take advantage of the antitrust exemptions in whatever new law passed by Congress.
(In response to this post by Vippie1)
3w
because at the time, it wasn't much money. Remember blackouts in the NFL if they didn't sell out the stadium? They made more money in ticket sales.
(In response to this post by VTHokie2000)
3w
North is not getting more media rights money than the NFC-South. The clubs aren't suing each other in local circuit courts to garner competitive advantages in some sick form of gamesmanship. There are rules. There's a commissioner. There's a collective bargaining agreement. The worst team in the NFL reaps windfall profits every year that, for all intents and purposes, is pretty much commensurate with what the best team in the NFL makes. If someone sues the New York Jets in federal court, the NFL takes the position that the New York Jets ARE the NFL, and vice-versa; that it's all the same business entity.
Simply put, the franchises in the NFL all recognize that its an ecosystem, and they each depend on each other as individual parts of that whole. The NFL's entire business model could not be more different than college football, where every conference and program is actively trying to starve the next conference and program to death.
He would never admit it, but if Greg Sankey had his way, every non-SEC football program would fail and close shop tomorrow, and if he could, he would press a button to make it happen, and wouldn't lose a second's sleep over it.
My frank opinion is that, unless and until we get rid of the conference paradigm, and everyone stops trying to actively ruin everyone else's opportunity to even compete, college football is going to burn itself out at the rate things are currently going.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
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2hhoop3
3w
the National Sports Broadcasting Act gave leagues the right to pool broadcasting rights and owners and management instantly recognized the leverage that gave them in negotiation. It is true individual franchise deals at the time were not huge making the sale easier but, revenue sharing came up because of the laws, not the small amounts and everyone recognized the league was stronger together than fighting against individual members. The competitive parity was a beneficial by product of the revenue sharing. There are lessons for collegiate sports in the NFL history that have been ignored due to past NCAA behavior and the entrenchment of blue blood programs.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
3w
agreeing to abide by a league wide TV contact, ie. the terms of the Sports Broadcasting Act. The men who ran the NFL and AFL were true visionaries.
(In response to this post by 2hhoop3)
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2hhoop3
3w
As the owner of the franchise in the largest TV market he had the most leverage.
(In response to this post by mancunian)
3w
saw what those broadcast rights would be worth.
(In response to this post by 2hhoop3)
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2hhoop3
3w
is, and likely always will be experimental due to the changing nature of technology and content distribution. I am not sure what those rights were worth, are currently worth or might be worth in the future is as relevant as the structure and health of the overall product. That is a current challenge that the P2 has yet to understand.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
3w
NFL has opted to continue down this same path today. Instead of allowing teams to negotiate their own TV contracts (aka regional contracts). The NFL doesn't have enough content justify having national media contract(s) and each team having their own regional contracts too. Hence why the other major pro leagues have not taken advantage of the antitrust exemption like NFL does now.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
4w
In 2004 VT was a state school in a state that was represented in the aggressor and victim conference. The closest we've come since was potential harm done to Texas Tech by Texas A&Ms vote.
If you look at the ACC/SEC overlap you have Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, and Kentucky represented on both sides. This is why I feel like the next SEC expansion could be large. There will be a lot of in state pressure not to gut the ACC and leave the fellow state school stranded.
Going to 24 in one expansion would be unprecedented but it would be the way to acknowledge if you break it you buy it.
(In response to this post by TDVick)
4w
is approved they probably need to have at least 52 to 54 to not get hassled by the Feds, so they need to placate 60 senators.
A youtube said the Oregon and Washington delegation flew to B10 headquarters. You can't rule out that they might be getting heavy pressure to add OSU and WSU. If it dilutes your payout somewhat to avoid regulatory/legislative risk, it is probably worth it.
WVU and UConn are two schools that could bring one school and probably two senators so they are underrated as possible acquisitions. Lou, GT and IAST could get pulled in and not bring extra senators, but keep the current ones from defecting.
Mag 7
Lou
GT
IAST
is at least 10 schools and you only have senators from 25 states locked up (excluding OR, WA and CA).
This will get very nasty and it is very easy to block or punish the P2. They need more senators and that final number will be bigger than than the addition of 7-8 teams. I think it will be 14 or maybe more.
(In response to this post by 4x4hokies)
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VTejrep
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i think the SEC (who goes big or doesn't go at all) takes FSU, Clemson, UNC, NC St, UVa and VT in one giant expansion bite. Here's why: 1) it keeps the BIG out of the south. All that would remain are private or smaller schools Duke, Miami and GT
2) It takes state politics out of the equation. The VA legislature wouldn't need to get involved as both large state schools are taken care of. Same goes for NC, FL and SC.
3) it adds untapped markets in 2 of the fastest growing states in America, VA and NC, to the SEC footprint while also solidifying FL and SC.
** Edited by VTejrep at 7/4/2026, 8:45:01 AM
(In response to this post by 4x4hokies)
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RJHokie
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(In response to this post by VTejrep)
3w
perceptually fall into that category? At least I interpreted "smaller schools" to include public schools since "private" was placed prior to the "or." Plus, GT isn't really known for having a passionate fan base for athletics even though their enrollment is around 56K. I mean there is a reason Bobby Dodd Stadium only has a capacity of 52K.
(In response to this post by RJHokie)
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RJHokie
3w
But it is a public institution with exceptional academics and has a high enrollment for its campus size which indicates it probably has a fair number of online and commuter students.
It’s definitely not known for having a large passionate fan base though.
(In response to this post by VTHokie2000)
3w
private schools when talking about the ACC's "problems" in football. When it comes to athletics, it behaves more like a private school than a large public school. If GT were to end up in the Big Ten, then I guess it would become another Northwestern or Minnesota instead of a Wisconsin.
(In response to this post by RJHokie)
3w
on the national stage without changing the majors they offer and the way their academic programs work. When you combine that issue with the extreme difficulty of being located in the SEC capitol of Atlanta, and permanently operating in the shadow of the University of Georgia and every other surrounding SEC program, it's a real killer, and I don't see how they ever successfully deal with that.
I know we all remember what it was like having to deal with UVA lording their ACC affiliation over VT, particularly in the pre-Big East Football Conference days. We should all be thanking our lucky stars that there's not an SEC program in this state; having Tennessee so close by is bad enough.
(In response to this post by RJHokie)