Florida AG Files Lawsuit Against ACC Seeking ESPN Contract
64 Replies
2y
and just ignore the Florida AG. ACC is governed by NC law. It would be interesting if AG of Florida tries to issue a summon in NC and has to coordinate with the AG of NC and he says no.
(In response to this post by Hokie Bird)
2y
Given that the AG suing is a pretty head scratching concept, it sure seems the whole thing is nothing but an attempt to threaten ESPN (since their parent has been at war and losing with the state of FL for 2+ years) to get ESPN to press the ACC to settle. That would certainly imply that the AG sees little chance of FSU's case having a chance at success and thus she is taking a flyer.
(In response to this post by DMV Gobbler)
2y
That is the contract they are trying to break. That is where their rights and obligations in the relationship are defined. Unless that contract provides them rights or creates obligations on the ACC related to the media contract between the ACC and ESPN, then all FSU can do is ask the ACC for things and the ACC has no obligation beyond what is explicitly defined in the contract and if I'm the ACC, FSU ain't getting nothing more than the absolute minimum I am required to give them under the terms of the contract that they signed.
The point I am making is that FL's AG getting involved sure points to the fact that FSU knows they are going to lose and it is purely a last ditch effort to use political pressure, based on an ongoing battle between FL and Disney, to coerce a settlement. If they AG is suing for that contract, that indicates they have no legal rights to that contract, or else they would have simply filed a motion based on specific contract language that indicated they had that right.
(In response to this post by VT ChemE 1986)
H
Hokie 04
2y
them? Ungrateful bee-yotch.
(In response to this post by Hokie Bird)
2y
Does fla have any authority to summon a state of nc licensed corporation . Also does the ag sue the orher members and if its a public achool then their appropriate ag represemts them.
Chaos
(In response to this post by Hokie Bird)
2y
in the contract? Any other surprises on the horizon?
(In response to this post by Hokie Bird)
R
RJHokie
2y
Failure to read and comprehend the contract and its related terms borders on criminal malfeasance by the schools. If Swofford said sign here and they did without due diligence, then it’s their own fault.
(In response to this post by wwhokie1)
2y
This was a contract between the ACC and ESPN. I'm not sure the individual schools had to actually sign the contract. I could be wrong, I really don't know. But I think it's possible that the individual schools were not actually involved in the contract. Just the representatives from the ACC.
(In response to this post by RJHokie)
R
RJHokie
2y
Notwithstanding, if the GOR is tied to the ESPN contract (as it apparently is), then they should have a copy of the ESPN contract. Plus, if they authorized Swofford to sign the ESPN contract for the conference, then that authorization should be available too.
Basically, each conference member should have copies of all the signed documents related to the GOR, ESPN contract and other significant conference media or other contracts.
(In response to this post by wwhokie1)
2
2hhoop3
2y
business practices all around. The idea of documents in the conference office as opposed to schools is probably skirting FOIA rules and regs. That still does not absolve member institutions from reading and knowing what they are signing. I am not sure I would sign anything either I or my designated representative did not get a copy of. It would create a lot of potential for mischief after signing, IMO. As far as FOIA goes maybe an expert could explain but, couldn't outside counsel hold documents that would shield them from FOIA either through possession and/or attorney client privilege?
(In response to this post by RJHokie)
R
RJHokie
2y
be disclosed by FOIA. And this rule probably has various different requirements in each state.
(In response to this post by 2hhoop3)
V
VTCALS72
2y
But the line of authority is that each school surrendered their "check with me" when they signed the GOR. Way more points to the GOR being an agreement between the conference and each individual school that will last until 2036 with specific agreements to act cooperatively with the conference being the empowered entity, regardless of ESPN,s current contract.
(In response to this post by RJHokie)
R
RJHokie
2y
Other TV media, such as CW, must purchase broadcasting rights from ESPN in order to carry ACC sporting events.
(In response to this post by VTCALS72)
V
VTCALS72
2y
by the individual members in the GOR.
(In response to this post by RJHokie)
2y
sign a contract they weren't able to read or have a copy of? That makes no sense at all. What in the world is in those pages nobody is allowed to see? We need Nic Cage to go and steal a copy.
(In response to this post by RJHokie)
2y
documents. There should not be any surprises, like the "look in" by ESPN. That makes me think that FSU might have a valid case. Would the schools have signed a GOR that tied them to the conference until 2036 if they knew ESPN could back out ten years earlier? That sounds like something that the ACC leadership may have intentionally keep secret from the schools in order to get them to sign the GOR. If that is the case, then FSU may have a valid argument.
(In response to this post by RJHokie)
2y
but the question is are they legally required to. Sounds like FSU has a right to view the contracts, just not take or maintain copies. Again, if they failed to take advantage of those rights, that's on them. What you want and what you are contractually obligated to get can be very different. If you don't get a contractual obligation as part of an agreement, you are then just hoping the other party will give it to you and they are not likely to be generous when you are running around the media trashing them and filing lawsuits against them at every turn.
(In response to this post by wwhokie1)
2y
That is pretty damning.
(In response to this post by Hokie Bird)
FSU seems especially bad at poker, so I doubt it
(In response to this post by Millpoint)
kinda young AD at Clemson
Graham Neff, graduated undergrad from GT in 2006 so he's probably not 40. Very interesting. Do 39 year old company men take risks this big?
(In response to this post by Millpoint)
2
2hhoop3
2y
has played their hand much smarter. They are calculating, probing and being careful in what they do and say. UNC has also been reserved in their approach. FSU is the little kid kicking and screaming and crying on the floor hoping their tantrum will produce fruit.
(In response to this post by Millpoint)
V
VTCALS72
2y
desperately looking for something, anything they can use.
(In response to this post by Millpoint)
2
2hhoop3
2y
what prevents them from disclosing?
(In response to this post by Millpoint)
R
RJHokie
2y
general public, or the equivalent, and enforcement by significant financial penalties.
(In response to this post by 2hhoop3)
H
HOO86
2y
It's for disclosure of trade secrets. ESPN already warned FSU. Every thin they are in contract for is ACC Bylaws and GOR.
(In response to this post by RJHokie)
R
RJHokie
2y
TV contract(s) and have a copy of such plus any addendums, etc.
(In response to this post by HOO86)
2y
That document is better protected than the U.S. President's "football"
(In response to this post by RJHokie)
H
HOO86
2y
With non disclosure agreement and no copies.
(In response to this post by RJHokie)
2
2hhoop3
2y
However, I doubt the penalties coma anywhere close to the amounts being litigated and if it wins their case due to its damning nature it may even be the least expensive way out. I would imagine if it were to be a bombshell, even only a PR debacle, they could find a way to make it public. I am still on the fence whether they are fishing or actually know something.
(In response to this post by RJHokie)
R
RJHokie
2y
It appears something is going to “pop” sometime in the near future.
(In response to this post by 2hhoop3)
2y
It’s forbidden to leave the pristine ACC headquarters.
(In response to this post by 2hhoop3)
2y
** Edited by Tombo at 4/25/2024, 7:00:15 PM
(In response to this post by Millpoint)
D
daveinop
2y
for damages.
they don't really care about the law or having to pay some kind of fine; they want a public battle with ESPN and the ACC; two entities the current admin in Tally hate.
(In response to this post by Tombo)
2y
(In response to this post by Hokie Bird)
D
daveinop
2y
be directed at FSU...but of course, politically that isn't what they want. They want to publicly pick apart the ACC and ESPN and glorify FSU.
This is just another political performance. FSU is subject to FL Sunshine. The ACC is not.
The state could direct FSU to withdraw from the ACC; that's about the extent of their influence, imo.
(In response to this post by reestuart)
2y
It's been alleged that espn has the option of killing the ACCN in 2027. I'd like to know if that is a fact.
(In response to this post by daveinop)
V
VTCALS72
2y
Probably the ACC is the longest term contract for football media rights ever. This is kind of an ongoing or rolling contract that has had several amendments and I am sure that it had/has several "look ins" or re evaluations along the way, including past 2027. Again just guessing but if ESPN re ups in 2027, which was supposed to be in what 2021, there is already language for a post 2027 "look in" between 2027 and 2035 before the whole thing dies in 2036.
If the 2027 look in has a "poison pill" for the ACC, then that still has nothing to do with the GOR until a court somehow establishes some link. Otherwise most likely the ACC has the right to replace the current ESPN deal with some other deal. I don't believe the GOR, although powerful, has already given the ACC the right to just accept the best new offer and that will need approval by the members. But whether it is a new lower deal with ESPN or some other carrier, even a current non conventional one, where is a majority of the ACC who would vote against it?
The ACC will be at 18 members in just a month or 2 so where would 10 votes come from to reject the next media deal and kill the GOR? The only way I see 10 votes to essentially kill the ACC is 10 teams having to have a better place to go.
If the new PAC is up and running, Stanford and Cal would be no votes as they would leave their temporary harbor in the ACC and return to the PAC. But if the PAC is up and running, they are most likely going to take back the XII's 4 corners and probably BYU as well. IMHO the XII is being paid a premium right now to be a "safe harbor" for teams until all this shakes out so they won't be able to provide significantly more $$$ per team return than the "new" ACC. Why would the XII drop? Because that is the way both Fox and ESPN want it. Even if there was more in the XII would it be enough to make a move? I don't think so.
So where would 8 more votes come from? Only those with P2 offers would be no votes and as far as anyone can see right now, the P2 is not taking 8 teams nor will the XII be as attractive as it looks today.
(In response to this post by Atlee Hokie)
2y
the option. Remember the birth of the Mountain West Conference came about because 8 schools decided to leave the 16 member WAC to form their own conference. It is plausible that enough schools could decide to leave the ACC to form their own conference for whatever reasons. If enough schools decide to leave the ACC to satisfy the NCAA's requirements to be defined a conference, then the new conference would be eligible to receive automatic bids on Day 1 for every NCAA postseason tournaments the new conference is able to satisfy the minimum participating teams requirement for each sport. It happened when the Big East decided to kick out the FBS football schools and those schools decided to form the AAC.
(In response to this post by VTCALS72)
2y
(In response to this post by Atlee Hokie)
V
VTCALS72
2y
suing the ACC?
In the first place is the probability that the ACC/ESPN deal is probably a boilerplate that the other ESPN conferences have as well. The difference is a fill in to the sundown dates, various "look ins" along the way and amounts. For this one, maybe a whole other section specific to the ACCN.
In the 2nd place, the real question/argument is whether the GOR places all relationship of this contract to the conference with no other "check with me" by the individual schools.
Did the ACC violate their own Constitution and By-laws in the ESPN, "look in?" Not if it is covered by the GOR. Repeat that for most of the stuff.
(In response to this post by Hokie Bird)
2y
That being said, the attorneys for FSU have seen it, so why the push to make it public? I think (speculation) that FSU will make the move before July one, and they are looking for either PR cover, or an invite from the P2 is not forthcoming unless there is a ruling.
(In response to this post by VTCALS72)
I
INSIDE99
2y
The AG is trying to get the details of the ACC/ESPN contract. She sums it up best in her Twitter X account. It's a great point. I mean if the ACC is asking for that much money you better show me the full contract. Using ESPN "trade secrets" to hide the details isn't going to float in Florida. Half a billion is a chunk of change. The FSU lawyers have been given access to the contract on a read only basis in North Carolina. There apparently was enough in that looksee that led to FSU asking for the documents to be released.
per AG Ashley Moody on X
@theACC is asking a state entity— @FloridaState — to potentially pay and lose more than half a billion dollars but is refusing to produce the documents related to that outrageous price tag. We are taking legal action against the ACC for wrongfully withholding these important public records.
** Edited by INSIDE99 at 4/25/2024, 12:08:25 PM
(In response to this post by Hokie Bird)
D
daveinop
2y
FSU has not withdrawn from the conference nor has it offered to acquire the rights. They want a court to invalidate the GOR.
If FSU withdraws, the ACC has said it will sell the rights to FSU or someone else (presumably a TV network or conference). But no one owes anything at this point.
(In response to this post by INSIDE99)
2y
if they left the conference. They now want to leave the conference. The AG is representing her client, but is twisting the facts like a pretzel.
(In response to this post by INSIDE99)
I
INSIDE99
2y
Is that too much to ask? Which is what the Florida AG is seeking.
I don't think that's outside the box to ask for the details of the contract that claims to lock someone in for half a billion dollars.
(In response to this post by Vienna_Hokie)
V
VTCALS72
2y
I don't think so. It is the GOR which FSU signed and has received benefits from for what 8 years? Think 2 totally separate contracts, One in which the individual teams agreed to work cooperatively and empowers the conference to act on their behalf with no further input from the individual teams. The 2nd, the Agreement the conference, using the authorities granted to them by the GOR, negotiated with ESPN for.
(In response to this post by INSIDE99)
H
HOO86
2y
It is non disclosure. FSU was warned by ESPN that disclosing its contents is a felony for disclosing trade secrets.
This AG has no case. The contract FSU is party to has been disclosed. That is the GOR.
(In response to this post by INSIDE99)
D
daveinop
2y
The agency's records of my work were subject to state sunshine laws as were my own records of work for them.
But if I traveled to GA for a couple days to do work for FL (which I did), then while my records of travel expenses and the agency's records are sunshine-able, the records of the hotel, gas station, and restaurants are NOT. Florida can't reach out and grab businesses outside the state and make them subject to Florida law, simply because their employees or contractors did business there.
Technically, Moody's sunshine beef is with FSU.
** Edited by daveinop at 4/25/2024, 8:21:00 PM
(In response to this post by HOO86)
R
RJHokie
2y
But that makes sense. The conference owns the GOR and contracts with the TV/media carrier.
(In response to this post by HOO86)
2y
FSU is not a party in the ESPN contract, they granted their rights to the ACC to negotiate a contract for the league as a whole, not on their behalf. The penalty is for leaving the league, the contract they are fighting is the GOR, and if they don't have a copy of the contract they signed, then their lawyers are idiots. Unless there are terms in the GOR that specifically tie that agreement to the ESPN or any other contracts, they have ceded their rights to the ACC to negotiate any contract they can.
FSU is fishing, they are trying to drag a bunch of non-relevant things into this, thus the reason the AG is filing this suit, because it is a threat by using a State Gov official. They are trying to make this more and more painful for ESPN to get them to force the ACC to settle.
(In response to this post by INSIDE99)
I
INSIDE99
2y
Any renegotiation of a media deal requires a newly signed GOR. In the eyes of FSU and Clemson, in 2021 ESPN was given more time to extend the contract to 2036 without member notification, which ESPN still has not done. That was not in the original contract.
Not sure why getting the contract is an issue. Trade secrets that involve FSU have to be revealed. And they will.
No, the ACC cannot make a new TV deal for $1 a year and FSU has to abide by it. LOL
(In response to this post by Vienna_Hokie)
V
VTCALS72
2y
permission, the GOR places that authority in the hands of the conference. And your 2nd point, given real numbers is TBD by a court as well. FSU has nothing and is screaming like a child because they signed and have benefitted from a deal that is hurting them now.
Pay up and go, especially if they are going to make 50-75 mil more per year once gone. Shouldn't be to hard to get the ACC to structure payment FSU can afford.
(In response to this post by INSIDE99)
2y
When the signed it if not to bad. Pay the money and leave or shut up and quit begging for a hand ot
(In response to this post by INSIDE99)
2y
(In response to this post by Hokie Bird)
2y
I’m not sure I understand the point of this Florida AG suit
(In response to this post by Hokie Bird)
2y
"FSU's motion for full documentation of these records were dismissed by a North Carolina judge on April 4, but it appears that FSU is now getting help from its home-state's attorney general."
(In response to this post by HokieAl)
I
INSIDE99
2y
the details of the ESPN/ACC contract has not been determined yet by the courts. Discovery may be the biggest hurdle for both parties in these preliminary court proceedings. The meat of the lawsuits hasn't even began to begun. The battle over venue, jurisdiction, ripeness, dismissal, stay, etc. are the small potatoes being hashed out right now.
(In response to this post by tupton79)