Unlike some I still like Herbie, Heather & Paul, but now the Criteria used:
The criteria the committee used the following and those three in particular are defending it. However, the Criteria needs to be solidified for integrity reasons:
1) Defense wins Championships, but Offense wins the ratings. (this should be about winning championships, getting lost in this is that Louisville was completely shut down, that defense was amazing)
2) Don't run up the score because it doesn't matter to the committee (wrong, FSU looking back should have not have kicked the last field goal and gone for it, and they should have kicked the field goal instead of knelling down, that's a horrible lesson to teach kids, but that is the criteria they used)
3} We eliminated them based on the lack of offense in the first half. What? The true freshman teenager had 4 passes before he unexpectedly was starting. He was told, whatever you do, don't try to be a hero and turn the ball over. (That was horrible advice based on the criteria, he should have tried to rack up points. remember style points count more)
4) We put extra weight on the last game especially the offense. (The FSU QB that at least got work as number 2 in practice had a slow start in the Swamp, but showed poise until being knocked was going to be the starting QB in the playoff, that should not be part of the Criteria this year or any year)
5) If you have injuries and find a way to overcome it, forget that, our Criteria is about your team when we make the vote, not even what players will be in the playoff.
6) 7 days prior to the Conference Championship Alabama has a miracle play to beat overall ranked #49 Auburn with a less than pedestrian record of 6-6 Auburn. That didn't matter, but FSU beating Florida at the swamp and #15 ranked Louisville doesn't matter either.
7) The one no one is talking about, we know that Michigan was caught stealing signals in at least 3 games. Their own Conference had enough evidence to at least suspend their coach. Yet the committee doesn't care, and ranks them number 1. (So what are you teaching the kids that are watching? It's okay to cheat and we won't use it against you (Rank you #1), but heaven forbid if 2 QB's get hurt even though one would be back for the playoff, now that will knock you out of the playoff)
8) Prime (who I like too) said for his buddy Nick (yep I like him too) you don't leave Alabama out, this is a BUSINESS and you don't leave Alabama out! (Well there is the truth, but it is an ugly truth that will come back to haunt you, NASCAR I am looking at you, you put all your coverage on about 5 drivers and when they started losing, well just look at the seats and ratings, good in the short run, but horrible business move in the long run)
Bottom line for me, is that I think these are good people that made bad decisions. They won't admit it publicly, because the networks will let them go or they think it will get worse for them, but after the season is done, some real Criteria that have POINTSs needs to be created and stuck to. These are the things we care about and you get one point for each, most points wins, "you know, like they do on the field."
That and that alone will show us if you care about the integrity of the game or just want to use the Professional Wrestling model. It will also tell me if you care about what you are teaching the kids at home watching. I work with kid athletes and I hope they don't learn a single lesson from what I wrote above, except that what was done was a lot of mistakes, and we are going to learn from it and do better,
Love me or hate me, that last one is what I think the priority should be and in the long run I think are good sustainable business practices too. Not just in sports, but teaching kids how to live their life, which should be priority #1! Let's get back to that!
** Edited by Stech at 12/6/2023, 9:19:59 AM
75 Replies
H
HOO86
2y
He even thinks SMU was screwed, and the excuse was "Liberty won every game." Boo Corrigan should be embarrassed, but I think ESPN directed the top 4 in the end to list that they think will drive the most ratings.
Link:
link
(In response to this post by Stech)
2y
and it will be obvious.
(In response to this post by HOO86)
2y
Michigan was going to make it because of the Harbaugh story
Washington was going to make it because of the criticism that the CFP has an east coast bias
Texas was going to make it because, Texas
Alabama was going to make it because, Alabama
The CFP is negotiating a TV deal for the future and needs these 4 in playoffs because of the eyes they will bring, FSU might be valuable, but not as valuable as these 4.
(In response to this post by Stech)
H
HOO86
2y
ESPN and Fox are lining up to pay FSU like Texas and Michigan. OK. You get it mrcaniac.
(In response to this post by mrcaniac)
2y
SEC Championship game 17.5M viewers 4pm Saturday
B1G Championship game 10M viewers 8pm Saturday
PAC12 Championship game 9.25M viewers 8pm Friday
Big XII Championship game 7.89M viewers 12 noon Saturday
ACC Championship game 7M viewers 8pm Saturday
The SEC Championship game drew the same number of people the ACC and B1G games did.
Norvell is a great coach, but he's an unknown. If Prime was the coach at FSU, then FSU would have been playoff bound.
(In response to this post by HOO86)
2y
don't seem to vary much based on teams...people watch the CFP because it's the CFP, not because of who is in it
Link:
ratings
(In response to this post by mrcaniac)
2y
the others had the only game on in their time slot. That, and it’s absurd to pick teams on ratings, that sure sounds like the Professional Wrestling model to me. Put that out there and see how many fans stop watching the game.
PS I thought Texas would do way better with having the only game on, but they weren’t much better than the ACC with their only game on time slot.
(In response to this post by mrcaniac)
2y
Which equals to 9am on the west coast. That Texas game did well for that time slot.
(In response to this post by Stech)
2y
** Edited by Stech at 12/7/2023, 12:42:22 PM
(In response to this post by mrcaniac)
2y
that more objective criteria are used in the future. Change is often preceded by pain. If the reports are true, they are receiving a lot of pain from this, as they should be.
(In response to this post by HOO86)
H
HOO86
2y
My analysis is that the CFP games have become much more TV Studio ratings driven like "Yellowstone", and have to really drive Nielson Ratings. It's not a Playoff. It's a TV Extravaganza.
ESPN has to bid on the renewal. They cannot have a backup QB in the Extravaganza. They require a National audience, hence why Washington is there, and Oregon would be. I'm sure they miss USC.
The Committee was corrupted to support ESPN's needs..
You are probably ahead of me in the eureka, but makes more sense to me now. ACC was not an issue. Norvell is not Bobbie Bowden on TV.
** Edited by HOO86 at 12/6/2023, 10:00:31 PM
(In response to this post by Stech)
M
Mercury
2y
They know who they want and since they are giving the check well..
So much influence
(In response to this post by HOO86)
2y
I bet Nebraska would have got nod.
(In response to this post by Mercury)
2y
Have actually shown that the teams don't really matter much in terms of TV eyeballs
(In response to this post by mrcaniac)
2y
But the Cincy game was the lowest rated CFP game. The CFP wants to ensure that the numbers this year are maximized because starting next year, the 5th conference champion will be a G5 school that not very many people have heard about.
(In response to this post by Pylons)
2y
It was down 2M viewers from the year before and did almost 5M viewers less than the next years.
This close to the contract renewal and the CFP isn't taking any chances on letting in any school that doesn't bring the ratings.
(In response to this post by Pylons)
2y
so were the differences you quote a "Cincy effect" or a "2021 effect"?
(and, in fact, the rating for Cincy/Alabama was higher than Georgia/Michigan)
(In response to this post by mrcaniac)
2y
I'm finding that until the current contract runs out, it is still the top 6 conference champions, with the top 4 getting a bye.
I could be wrong, but the playoff format has not been changed since the fall of the PAC.
(In response to this post by mrcaniac)
2y
Ironic that Disney and Fox don’t get the Cinderella thing. 🤣
(In response to this post by Pylons)
2y
for cheating, and thus they must get in, is the most ridiculous of the ridiculous.
Let's not wait for Professional Wrestling to hit college football, we are already there!!!!!
My only hope is that people will speak up now and learn from it, I have no indication of that, but deep down inside, I don't think people want to live their lives that way in the long run. It will take its toll.
** Edited by Stech at 12/6/2023, 3:43:19 PM
(In response to this post by mrcaniac)
2y
Big difference.
The Michigan story is worth gold, not for just the games but for all the rankings shows and all the shows leading up to the CFP. ESPN isn't making their money off of the actual games in the CFP but for the pregame, postgame, and all the preview shows. So, yeah, the CFP knows that Michigan will deliver ratings because of the controversy.
Just think about it, if Colorado had gone undefeated in the ACC this season, do you think that the CFP would have invited them and Coach Prime?
(In response to this post by Stech)
2y
popularity as the criteria. It’s shameful that breaking the rules according to your own conference helps get you in the playoff. I know you are right about why they selected them number 1, and in the short run the ratings will be fine, but I watched NASCAR do something similar, and in the long run it will hurt you. They still aren’t anywhere near where they were in their heyday because people began to realize, this is a popularity contest that sends all the money to a few. It simply lacks integrity, and over time that comes back to bite you in the arse.
** Edited by Stech at 12/7/2023, 12:24:50 AM
(In response to this post by mrcaniac)
2y
The phantom cautions. The constant hyping of several drivers so that those teams got all the sponsorship dollars while the drivers that had built the sport were pushed out to make room for Johnny Hotshoe that couldn't go 5 laps without wrecking half the field.
Sadly F1 is heading down the same road as they are always promoting whatever celebrities are out on the grid before the race.
(In response to this post by Stech)
2y
I don’t follow Formula 1, but if they are following that model, it will come back to haunt them.
(In response to this post by mrcaniac)
V
VTBAMA
2y
talking about. They decided to become more nationwide and much less southeast regional. They took races from tracks in the southeast and spread them out. A massive percentage of the fans were in the southeast and they were by far the most loyal fans in sports. when they could no longer go to as many races they started to lose interest. They took races from Rockingham, North Wilkesboro and for a while took one from Darlington. So the huge throng of Nascar fans in North Carolina only had Charlotte and Martinsville close by. They were basically taking 20% of the schedule from a pretty small area. They gave these races to cookie cutter tracks across the country that were boring. Every thing that they have done since has been reactionary.
Then the unthinkable happened. Dale Earnhardt died. Nascar leadership was completely at a loss when he died. I heard Bill France Jr. once say that they talked to DE about anything that they wanted to do. Although Dale was getting towards the end of his driving career he had his finger all over the pulse of the sport. The teams that he owned were becoming the best teams in racing. He also had an incredible legion of fans. It was a huge percentage of overall fans. When he died all those fans became bigger Dale Jr. fans and Nascar tried hard to put Jr. at the front but he for the most part did not deliver. A huge portion of those fans became much more of a casual fan than a diehard watch every lap of every race fan. Nascar has been reacting ever since.
** Edited by VTBAMA at 12/7/2023, 9:53:03 AM
(In response to this post by mrcaniac)
E
EDGEMAN
2y
...equalizing the field by making it less expensive with the next generation of cars. Simplify the powertrain, and invite more manufactures into the sport. Currently there are 4 engine manufactures, Honda, Mercedes, Ferrari, and Renault (Alpine), and those are pretty similar in power output. I think Ford, Porsche and Audi are jumping into the fray when the rules change, so it will be a clean slate.
The only difference between teams is aerodynamics, and the difference is really razor thin. When you look at cars lapping a 3-4 mile track, and half the field laps that distance within one second of each other. Wins are generally based on driver talent and race strategy.
(In response to this post by mrcaniac)
2y
take over the engine program or start its own program. If Red Bull is successful, then it could open the door for others to get into the sport.
(In response to this post by EDGEMAN)
E
EDGEMAN
2y
...to concentrate on EVs, then RBR won the F1 world championship. Honda then decided they acted in haste, and took over the RBR engine program again...lol. I think my comment when they made that first announcement was, "they wouldn't have pulled out if they knew they ere on the verge of winning the F1 championship." Honda will stay as their engine manufacture until the change to the next F1 formula.
But in the next round, I think Ford will be the engine supplier to RBR, and Honda will supply another team (McLaren? Aston Martin?). Not sure what teams Porsche and Audi will supply...
(In response to this post by VTHokie2000)
2y
With Cadillac (GM) being the engine provider.
(In response to this post by VTHokie2000)
2y
Formula One management must now approve it. That's where the holdup will be, the other F1 teams don't want to take a cut in their payouts, and FOM doesn't want to distribute more money from them to the teams.
(In response to this post by VTHokie2000)
E
EDGEMAN
2y
I think they tried to buy Alfa Romeo (AT?), but the purchase was rejected, then there was a discussion about creating a new team from scratch. That's tough to do. Haas was the last to start a new team, and they had a lot of assistance from Ferrari.
(In response to this post by VTHokie2000)
2y
approve it because I always thought 20 drivers might be too small of a field given that they tend to spread themselves out during a race which reduces the number of battles people see during the race even with the DRS zones. Then again, I wasn't a fan of the changes F1 made to the fuel rules because that was 1 less strategy teams had available to them during a race.
(In response to this post by EDGEMAN)
2y
But the F1 managements' chase of Euros has led them to putting races into countries that will happily line its pockets while having F1 gloss over their human rights "deficiencies".
(In response to this post by EDGEMAN)
2y
If a driver has sponsor $$$, they will get a ride at Haas, Aston Martin, Alfa Romeo, and Scuderia Alpha Tauri. Not unlike some guys and gals in NASCAR are doing today
(In response to this post by mrcaniac)
E
EDGEMAN
2y
(In response to this post by mrcaniac)
2y
piranha deathmatch?
(In response to this post by Stech)
2y
me if Tulane is one of the schools that the ACC invites if the Mag 7+1 leave. They fit the name of Academic Conference of Champions, that I think Jim Phillips is building in the ACC, now that he knows he will never get B1G Commissioner job. Yes, I think he tried to get it a second time. BTW, if so, I really don’t blame him, but it was bad timing for the ACC if true.
(In response to this post by VTHokie2000)
2y
Rice. However, does it make financial sense for non-P2 conferences to have this wide footprint regardless if the P2s form their own division level or remain with the existing DI? I would think after June 30, 2036 the money would dry up for the ACC even if the ACCN still exists or at least end up in the same ballpark as what we are seeing now with the G5's and Big East's media contracts. Heck I could even see ESPN decide to discontinue the ACCN especially if the Mag 7 +/- 1 decide to leave the ACC. Then again, I could see Notre Dame decide to remain in the ACC with its current arrangement so it doesn't have to stomach getting into bed with the Big Ten.
(In response to this post by Stech)
2y
private schools to associate with for the other sports and Academically. Tulane and Rice give them exposure in New Orleans and Houston, they would love that.
(In response to this post by VTHokie2000)
2y
ACC could end up resembling the Big East with GT and/or Cal playing the UConn role. I guess it would be fitting that they mirror each other given they are both basketball-first conferences.
(In response to this post by Stech)
2y
to watch. I posted a few days ago, the passion in the ACC SEC basketball games was great and interesting to watch!!
(In response to this post by VTHokie2000)
2y
see the ACC-Big East Challenge form to replace it. It will definitely be interesting to see how all of this plays out.
(In response to this post by Stech)
2y
TV Conferences playing each other.
(In response to this post by VTHokie2000)
2y
athletes vs. non-paid athletes. The DI schools passed a bylaw that prevented them from competing at the DII or DIII level in a sport for competitive reason. How is having contests between paid athletes and non-paid athletes any different? Everyone may start out in DI to give themselves time to work out the remaining details and logistics. However, I am not sure how sustainable it will be if the paid athletes end up with an overwhelming advantage.
(In response to this post by Stech)
H
Hokester
2y
No way I belive that because if it made them sick to do it, there is only 1 explanation.
They had no choice because they were ordered to do it by their masters (ESPN). Kind of like the Nazis at Nuremberg saying they were only following orders.
(In response to this post by Stech)
2y
if not, yep, they are just deflecting blame
(In response to this post by Hokester)
2y
before the season, “like they do on the football field.”
Maybe they are familiar with it, but if not they should check it out. 🤣
(In response to this post by Hokester)
2y
in the expanded playoffs and no one not named Notre Dame from outside those conferences ever, ever getting a top 4 seed
(In response to this post by Stech)
M
Mercury
2y
dont we know only the SEC plays college football and the best teams 8-9 of the twelve are from the SEC.
Thats the end game
(In response to this post by VT Pops)
2y
Not the top 4 ranked. No conference can have more than 1 team get a bye. ND is an at large with no bye.
Of course there will be a 2 loss team or two. The second place team in the ACC and Big12 had 3 losses, third place team in BIG and SEC had 2 losses. BIG and SEC won't need to get 4 in, though they likely will, but even the 3rd teams from both will have 2 losses, there will be 3 loss teams most year.
(In response to this post by VT Pops)
2y
a hand full of drivers and the ratings are still terrible compared to the heyday. The problem is that the Drivers and the Coaches age out. It took Alabama decades to go from Bear to Nick. Man I tell you, I don't want to follow in those footsteps. Point being though, don't put all your eggs in a hand full of baskets, once they get older, they often drop them, me included. :-)
(In response to this post by VT Pops)
M
Marooned
2y
bell cows. That plus the revenue discrepancy makes their one basket appealing.
(In response to this post by Stech)
2y
(In response to this post by Marooned)
I despise all three.
They are hacks and not good people. They are part and parcel of a system that smashes the little guy and makes money off of their backs. They are either too dumb or tone deaf to realize it. Or they think they are too coy for us to recognize it.
Most of your points approach the topic as if the system is fair. It is not. It is arbitrary.
Coach Prime said the quiet part out loud. No way are they leaving out Bama and the SEC. FSU and the ACC got big-timed by powerful interests that do their deeds with impunity.
** Edited by Maroon Baboon at 12/6/2023, 11:26:07 AM
(In response to this post by Stech)
2y
than deciding who the good guys and bad guys are right now. If they weren't doing what they are doing, somebody would be doing it for them. IMHO fix the bad system first, and then worry about the people. We don't have to agree, but that is the way my priorities see fixing the mistakes done here.
(In response to this post by Maroon Baboon)
The current power players and decision makers in college football aren't
going to be the ones to fix the system. Either we need to go to an open market system like an EFL relegation and promotion system. Or we need to go to a command and control system empowering a commissioner type to do what's in the best interest of the sport. In the latter system, the power would exist to establish rules and criteria for qualifying for a playoff. For example, undefeated teams should be included in some fashion. And perhaps, the power would exist for smaller conferences and rivalries to stay together.
Either way, I have zero faith that the ESPN heads like Finebaum and Herbstreit are going to be part of any solution that doesn't empower blue bloods and their employers.
** Edited by Maroon Baboon at 12/6/2023, 6:02:59 PM
(In response to this post by Stech)
2y
the Feds are getting involved. That proposal yesterday was result of the feds saying, give us a proposal. Imagine being a really important person like a Sen or Congresscritter (yes that was sarcasm) and having Ol State U in your State be relegated to 2nd class in this new system. Think that's gonna stand? NOPE! So laws will be passed, those bags of money will become steamer trunks and the other end will be even more concentrated in a small group of politically connected scumbags but with the official OK Dokey of law because the critters stood up and pounded their fists and held hearings where they wagged their fingers and winked at the connected, but in the end it will all be OK, and we'll be told how good it is for us, because the critters got paid.
(In response to this post by Maroon Baboon)
2y
(In response to this post by Maroon Baboon)
M
Mercury
2y
There is no independent opinion, but they are entertainment hosts for ESPN, and ESPN tells them what the narrative is. and where is ESPN most dollars being invested, and that what they willl sell. You are getting 6 figures annually for the gig. You do what you have to do
Its not personal its the nature of the business
However, I agree on the narrative, horrible,
(In response to this post by Maroon Baboon)
H
Hokester
2y
He has been around college sports a long time and for what it is worth he told me in all his years he had not once been asked by his bosses to sway a comment one way or another.
(In response to this post by Mercury)
2
2hhoop3
2y
I doubt he would be able to give you the same answer today. I have no doubt if the question were modified to include not only a direct ask but, subtle nudges or indirect "suggestions" he could likely not say no truthfully.
(In response to this post by Hokester)
H
Hokester
2y
I know it's a new world and I would love to hear how he would answer the question now. We spent the day together when he was in Richmond for the Richmond Hokie Club Kickoff Dinner. When discussing corporate influence he said he would not work for a company that tethered his commentary in any way. He also said that every fired coach thinks that they can easily step into the announcing booth. Nice guy and interesting to talk with.
(In response to this post by 2hhoop3)
2y
you have ever been on TV and both my wife and I have, they tried to tell us exactly what they wanted us to say. They even asked me to fill out questions, which I did, and then I guess they didn’t like my answers, so they took me in a totally different direction. Same thing happened to my wife, they even cut her off because they weren’t happy with what she was saying, it wasn’t controversial enough for them.
(In response to this post by Hokester)
2y
I didn't get a chance to screen shot it.
(In response to this post by Mercury)
M
Mercury
2y
The key was played before the GA Ala game, when SEC commissioner laid down the gaunlet to all, Simply No way will we allow SEC not play in the playoffs. That gaunlet rippled through the selection team.
(also I was thinking why the AD at NC State didnt just speak saying it was not right. (he's thinking, if he makes a move, that would piss off the SEC, and any opportunity for NC State to be invited into the SEC would be a blacklist.
ONe network, has exclusive rights to SEC, and Exclusive rights to CFB championship process. Not rocket sicence here. total collusion.
Also, nice people, can also make terrible decisions and just bacause they are nice, still need to be held accountable. (I have lost so much respect in NC State AD, and Grobe the ex Wake coach.) ACC was the only one in the room who could speak out on this.
(In response to this post by Stech)
2y
and them not letting us know much about what went on the room, we don't know what they said.
(In response to this post by Mercury)
2
2hhoop3
2y
with your advice regarding Grobe. What I know of him through personal contacts is that he is considered a stand up guy. Boo, however, is a different story. If he said anything different in the room and then went on TV to deliver what he said to the cameras he is a lying, spineless little weasel. So he gets no pass IMHO.
(In response to this post by Stech)
M
Mercury
2y
but joking.. wouldn't you like to be a fly in the room
(In response to this post by Stech)
2y
before the game. We know a touchdown is 6, a kicked extra point is 1, an offensive extra point is 2, a safety is 2 and a field goal is 3, BEFORE THE GAME. Why can't they devise a system for making the playoff that is objective and not subjective? They can, but they just aren't motivated to do it, because they want the most popular teams. Not the most deserving, not the best, the most popular teams. The system we have now is completely rigged for that.
(In response to this post by Mercury)
2y
I’ve never fully understood how ratings are calculated. Is that a clear and consistent process? Or can the numbers be manipulated?
I’m not suggesting anything, I honestly don’t know and thought I’d ask. And I ask because I honestly believe that a lot of people will boycott the Bama Mich game. My guess is that the numbers will be lower than usual. So I’m curious to see what gets reported.
(In response to this post by Stech)
I think hardly anyone is boycotting the Playoffs. We will see.
(In response to this post by HokieAl)