and already had that state. if they think FSU gets them more money...they take FSU.

ultimately. Of course, no one is sure when.

to stop the B10 from expanding south. Its also possible that the SEC isn't concerned where the B10 expands and that narrative is a bunch of media-manufactured BS. Nobody (who would actually speak up) knows for sure.

Who knows about Sankey? I think Sankey holds his cards as tight against his vest as Yancey Derringer who was an ex confederate solder who turned into a Yankee sympathizer after the Civil War down in New Orleans on that old TV show. Sankey will never mention FSU until the deal is done. Not sure that the SEC taking FSU is a good thing for all the Virginia & North Carolina Schools.especially if the SEC also gets both UNC & UVA. I just do not see the SEC going over 20. You look how many schools from the PAC & Big 12, that have eventually entered the P2. It amounts to 4 schools from the PAC & 5 schools from the Big12. How can anyone really think the ACC will get many more? You have to think FSU & UNC will take two spots in the P2. You just constantly hear UNC from absolutely everyone. Then you also have to think of Notre Dame being positively in the mix for wanting a P2 spot if or when the ACC crumbles. Will Clemson get another P2 spot? Will UVA get another? That is 5 presently attached ACC schools entering the P2. I say attached with regards to ND. Is the P2 going to take more from the ACC? Not judging by history. I think the Big 12 will snatch up Pitt & Louisville to join West Virginia & Cincinnati in that NE area. Some North Carolina & Virginia schools likely would be added if available. I could also see the Big 12 adding Georgia Tech. However judging by the past. The rest of the ACC will most likely be joining Oregon State & Washington State. The Hokies need to in the next several years get to be a football powerhouse that shadows UVA & Clemson. I don't think the SEC wants Clemson in South Carolina. B1G may not want Clemson either?

used to have more factually accurate post, but can you for one tell us what is Virginia Tech’s record in football is against Virginia over the last quarter of a century?? Not just this year, but the last 25 years. How about our football record against North Carolina since joining the ACC?? You know when you are digging a hole, stop digging!! I’m hoping you made a mistake and will admit it, so most if not all will move on, because you have mostly been a good poster with another perspective, and I don’t care if we agree as much as you are accurate about facts. We all screw up, hopefully you are man enough to admit it.

I hope FSU loses that lawsuit. I don't want anymore schools from anywhere. Arkansas rarely plays Kentucky & Vandy from the SEC East, they always draw Georgia & Florida, look over the past 25 years record on that. Why would I want more teams from the eastern part of the country in the SEC that the Razorbacks would possibly do good to play once each decade. I do not want them. I don't like FSU and their uppity & snotty fan base. Sankey has never uttered Pods in all the long winded interviews I have watched him give. I doubt the SEC ever uses Pods unless Sankey leaves. My attitude on this board about the future of the ACC changed for one reason. What I just witnessed in the PAC. With Stanford, Cal, Washington State & Oregon State left hung out to dry. Virtually by Big Media. The 4-corner PAC schools were actually hung out to dry as well in the Big 12. I just see that same future to now being orchestrated by Big Media on the ACC. You see this about a possible June 30, 2027, legal cut-off on that GOR being brought into the public light. That just fits an outlet to achieve just what happen in the PAC. How damn convenient. I can just see that I notice you repeatedly post that the ACC is going to survive by adding members no matter who leaves. Good luck with that but how is that going to work with a rotten at best media contract? Don't you remember how Big Media did with the PAC? Big Media wants a P2 and one big 3rd Conference. That is THREE MEDIA CONTRACTS with the BEST GAMES. Everybody else is being put financially on the back burner by Big Media. I don't want to argue on here. That is why I will not post anymore after tonight. What I see happening will be unpleasant for me. I know it is far worse for a fan base possibly soon to be outside looking in. I wish Tech good luck. . However I don't belong here posting negative opinions in an atmosphere that possibly will just worsen.. True, just because I think it will happen doesn't make it so. We will both hope I am dead wrong.

They want the money to go to the P2.

to maintain something like a tripple A farm league or everything but P2 will start completely over in something much closer to a D3 than where the Big 12 is now.

in my opinion. College football fans are regional, especially the casual fan. While I respect your opinion, i think it ignores reality, and in college ball, the top 20% are nothing without the bottom 80%. TCU got blown out in the championship game last year to Georgia. many used that as an example of where the new B12 will be in the future. I wonder if those same people apply the same standard to FSU this year?

surviving and thriving after the loss of Tex and OU and that they can somehow compete with the 2 national conferences is more of a dream than VT fans thinking we are are going to get the 1st call from the Big 10 and SEC. We are not and the B12 has as much or more chance of ending up like the PAC than the ACC. A part of this whole thing is the nationalization of cfb to where the casual fan and merch buyer sees way fewer brands and picks college teams like they now do the nfl. And advertisers will pick and choose what teams carry their advertising. I do very much agree that the rest of cfb post the P2 exit will return to regionalism in alignment etc. But for all of us left behind, which includes all of the B12 and most of the ACC, our future is going to look like something closer to Division III than the current G5.

survive and compete in football? Just last year a former G5 school played in the National championship game. Seems like a pretty short sighted uppity viewpoint, kinda like the PAC used to have.

that school isn't surviving and/or competing in any given sport. From a business standpoint it makes cents (I said it that way for a reason) that the media outlets would want to funnel as much money as possible towards the P2. Even if the politicians and fans want more schools included in the highest level of college athletics, the limitation may take care of itself naturally because the schools decide that every collegiate athlete should be paid a base salary. I believe very few schools are in a financial position to handle that additional cost particularly if the schools are expected to maintain the current number of sponsored sports to satisfy Title IX and any labor related requirements. There may even be some current P2 schools who can't handle the additional financial burden for various reasons which would force them to leave their P2 conference. Right now it looks like we could see paid athletes compete against non-paid athletes at the DI level. It is likely there will come a day when the schools with the non-paid athletes will no longer want to compete against the schools with paid athletes because they think they are at a competitive disadvantage. The concept isn't a new one for the DI schools. Remember up until 1991 the bylaws were structured so DI schools could compete at the DII or DIII level in a sport. The bylaw was primarily used so DI schools could compete at the DIII level in football to avoid being required to offer athletic scholarships in the sport. Eventually enough DIII schools thought the DI schools had an unfair competitive advantage in football because the program had access to the DI resources that the DIII schools did not. Notice the perceived competitive advantage had nothing to do with the actual results on the football field. As a result, the DI bylaws were modified to eliminate that option and created the ability for schools to compete in non-scholarship or limited scholarship at the DI-FCS level. The Pioneer Football League (PFL) was created as a non-scholarship DI-FCS football only conference. The Patriot League opted to switch to non-scholarship DI-FCS football too as a result of the change in the bylaws. The PFL is still a non-scholarship conference and in 2013 the Patriot League allowed schools to offer limited scholarships for football (equivalent of 15 scholarships). This will likely be the other major factor that limits how many schools compete at the highest level in a given sport. Also, this factor may be the easier one to sell to justify having the schools with paid athletes do their own thing. While the remaining schools (i.e. ACC, AAC, Big XII, C-USA, MWC, MAC, FCS conferences, DII, and DIII) re-organize themselves to a structure similar to what we have now. If the schools with paid athletes are still under the NCAA umbrella, then we could see 4 division levels instead of 3. new DI = the schools with paid athletes new DII = the remaining DI-FBS schools, DI-FCS schools, and DI non-football schools new DIII = the old DII new DIV = the old DIII It is possible there could be more than 4 division levels if the schools want to reduce the numbers for each division level into a more manageable number. Hence why I said at the beginning the schools (new DII, new DIII, and new DIV) could still be surviving and competing even if they are no longer a new DI school because DI-FCS, DII, and DIII are currently doing it now. It just means they may not be getting as much exposure as fans were used to in the past. IIWII when humans live in a world where the only constant is change. ** Edited by VTHokie2000 at 1/4/2024, 10:07:46 AM

and all the rest of the non P2 schools, including the Big 12 will have football but it will be more like current budgets and exposure of current Football Championship Series at best and probably closer to Diii. All as a result of the national programs getting pretty much all of the national air time. I am saying that the advertisers and media hold all the power unlike the PAC who thought they held some power.

if not all here are aware of the risk you’re talking about and have no problem your posting about the problem. I think if you had said, Virginia Tech needs to keep dominating Virginia in football, people would be okay with that too. However, I doubt the two Universities separate, and I don’t believe UNC and NCSU will either. We can disagree on that, but we don’t need to start dominating Virginia in football, we have been doing that for decades. You got outrage over just being wrong on that. Lastly, we agree the media wants a P2 for football, but I don’t think they want the ACC to get taken over by the B12. For goodness sakes, they have lost Texas, Oklahoma, Texas A&M, Nebraska, Missouri and even Colorado. The B12 is replacing them with mainly G5 schools or the less valued PAC schools. By the way, Utah is already trying to get out and move to the B1G (I doubt they are alone in that 4, but just more above board like FSU). The B12 is a top basketball conference lately, but has no where near the 20 year history of the ACC in basketball. My point is that the ACC with or without Virginia Tech is likely to stay around as a top basketball conference, ESPN likes it as that and has said it many times. Lastly, I don’t think many if any of the Mag 7 wanted Stanford, Cal and SMU. This was a move orchestrated by ND, even though they won’t join full time. I was against it, and I still am against it. However, ND Commissioner Phillips IMHO saved the conference. I think because of the constant drum beat of the B12 podcaster’s, there are very few left over schools that want to go there. I think Louisville could be the exception, but if given the chance, schools like UConn, USF, Tulane and Rice would much rather be in the ACC. Those are also schools that ND, Duke, Pitt, Syracuse , BC etc would like to associate with too. Not to mention Stanford, Cal and SMU. The Academic Conference of Champions as I have called it. You think those schools would prefer the B12 schools, but if that is the case, why didn’t the ACC just invite them when they were G5 schools. It just doesn’t track. Consequently, people just disagree with you on these issues, and that’s where you got into trouble. Finally, I will repeat thank you for responding to my post. It was much better than the first one in this thread. I and I think many are okay with disagreeing, but you lost us with your lead. Good luck to you, and hopefully we talk again when things cool down. ** Edited by Stech at 1/3/2024, 12:30:43 AM

out by the P2. I also do not think that the rest of the ACC will end up in the B12 - it's just not going to happen in my opinion. It is very possible that 6 teams are taken by the P2. As posted below, FSU takes on of two to the Big 10 - either Clemson or Miami, and they stop at 20. I also think the SEC locks up the Virginia and NC markets by taking UVA, VT, NCSU, and UNK - to end op at 20. If Miami goes with FSU to the Big 10, Clemson will end up in the B12. If Clemson goes with FSU, there is no guarantee that Miami goes to the B12 - I think they stay with the ACC and ND. It's my contention that the ACC survives as the 4th P4 conference, but diluted to the academic private universities, that have the donor base to be competitive. Pitt and Louisville go to the B12 - and the B12 only will get 2-3 schools when this shakes out. I just don't see the B2 and ACC merging like some profess. I think the ACC survives as a "P" conference with the privates and academic universities - and I also think that they will be competitive in football and basketball. With the addition of Cal, Stanford, and SMU - it is plain as day where they are headed, and ND will want to keep their "marriage" with the ACC.

ND just did two things AFTER it knew that FSU (and perhaps others) might leave the ACC: 1) Signed a new, independent NBC deal for more than $50 million a year for its 6-7 home games, and 2) Brokered the deal getting SMU, Stanford and Cal into the ACC. ND didn't do these things just to join a P2 conference. It did these things with the knowledge or expectation that some ACC schools may leave. ND will stay as a partial member of the (new, ND centric) ACC or (if that collapses totally) will sign a similar deal with the Big 12 or send its other sports to the Big East.

grabs more private schools like Tulane and Rice, which will fit well with the new schools, and is exactly what Notre Dame wants. That said, if the NCAA proposal by the new President passes that splits off the P2 from the rest of the schools as pay for play, and the P2 says in order to participate, ND must join to be in tier 1, they likely IMHO join the B1G. However admittedly, that’s a big if!!

ND will slide along with the P2 conferences as a football independent. They may not even break off. Time will tell. I just know that many people have bet against ND staying independent in conference realignment turmoil many times the past thirty years and have lost.

I personally couldn’t care less if you join or not, now that there is no chance for them to join the ACC. I think our games have been a lot of fun though. Two very passionate respectful fan bases.

may be what ultimately occurs for Notre Dame. Does Notre Dame want their best ACC game each year to be against Stanford? I would guess that the Big-12 would be obliging. The B1G could turn up the heat on Notre Dame by limiting access to that Playoff for none P2 members. Who knows what is coming?

public schools leave.

Beating Virginia like a drum every year means nothing to anybody not living in Virginia. I was referring to having big winning football seasons. bawaha I am going to leave this board. No sense in spouting realism on here to a fan base that is understandably very displeased with the realities of college football. It is disintegrating before our eyes. I do wish the best for the Hokies.

programs in P5 college football? Yikes, I think we need to rethink our goals.

those outside of the Virginia Tech fan base with any knowledge of the university and the state of Virginia would realize that Virginia Tech is the top football brand in the state. Virginia Tech would bring more value fan base-wise + TV viewers (9.1 million residents by 2030) than Indiana, Purdue, Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska, Wisconsin, Missouri, Maryland, Arkansas, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, South Carolina, Kentucky, Tennessee and Vanderbilt. Auburn and Oklahoma are in much lower populated states but have a national brand. Northwestern is located in Illinois but I'm sure they don't have a great fan base and bring in great TV ratings. Plus the SEC and Big 10 have to also consider Virginia Tech's POTENTIAL based on its football history, loyal fan base (large fan base in metro DC) and growing state's population. Tech would also be a nice add academically (if that really matters anymore) to the SEC or Big 10. What I'm saying for Virginia Tech would be true for NC State too and even Georgia Tech to a lesser extent. I think the Big 12 got lucky getting the Pac-12 schools that they did. Arizona, ASU and Colorado have the same "potential" as Virginia Tech just based on future population growth. The Big 10 added all those Pac 12 schools because the Midwest isn't growing at the same rate the South and West is. Virginia will pass Michigan and New Jersey soon. North Carolina will pass Ohio and Illinois soon and be the same size as Pennsylvania. The SEC doesn't have to expand beyond the former 13 Confederate states to add more value (adding Mizzou is still a head scratcher even though the Missouri Ozarks are South to me). They can add schools from Virginia and North Carolina or even Clemson, FSU and GT and still be true to their conference name and add 20 million new people (from NC and VA) to their geographic footprint.

Probably some truths in what you think but nowhere close to being 100% accurate imo as far as VT and how they will fare and sorry you are leaving the board