SEC & B10 will hold a meeting. Potential discussion of 4-4-2-2-1-1
“Many expect the Big Ten — and perhaps the SEC too this time — will again propose a format that assigns multiple automatic qualifiers to single conferences.
There is discussion of a 14-team model that designates four automatic qualifiers each to the SEC and Big Ten; two each to the ACC and Big 12; one to the best Group of Five champion; and one at-large, intended for Notre Dame if it finishes ranked inside the top 14 (or, if not, the next-highest ranked team after the automatic qualifiers are selected). Officials describe it as a 4-4-2-2-1+1 model, with the top two seeds receiving a first-round bye. It is a way, too, in limiting the subjectivity and power of the selection committee.”
https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-sec-big-ten-to-hold-seco...
I am telling you. The 4-4-2-2-1-1 is a good compromise.
** Edited by RandomAsianGuy at 1/22/2025, 12:32:03 AM
61 Replies
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daveinop
1y
in rankings; and reality is that the portal is killing the depth of the top teams and it's tougher to make it through longer, difficult schedules without key injuries. So with the big name leagues they've created for TV $$$, those big names are also going to incur more losses and 11-1 nowhere state may rank higher than a 9-3 blueblood; especially if the blueblood's star is limping around.
(In response to this post by RandomAsianGuy)
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Stech
1y
messing up their ratings, or at least they think so. What the networks are missing is that following the NASCAR model of about 20-25 years ago of just promoting the better known drivers/cars they are losing the masses they need to get ratings. Their drop as the article above states, is over 10 years, not just the Ohio State Notre Dame National Championship game.
(In response to this post by daveinop)
1y
Big12 ACC and the rest need not agree to this at all(if that is the case). Cause there will be years where the 4th best team might only be 15th or 16th.....
** Edited by VT Pez4Life at 1/23/2025, 9:13:20 AM
(In response to this post by RandomAsianGuy)
1y
(In response to this post by VT Pez4Life)
Bad for SEC and B1G IMO. Put a cap on their bids for the most part.
If we went with 16 teams, the SEC would have gotten 5 bids this year.
(In response to this post by RandomAsianGuy)
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HouClone
1y
schedule non-conference games between each other and generate more revenue at the expense of others. They'll take more losses but because they get 4 in each conference, it wouldn't matter. ACC and Big 12 should reject this format. Also, the CFP seemed to go on forever with 12 teams and so hope there is no CFP expansion.
(In response to this post by RandomAsianGuy)
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Stech
1y
They need to fight back!!! Yes they could lose, but losing without fighting for what you know is the right thing to do, is far worse!!!
(In response to this post by HouClone)
1y
Like taking a butter knife to a gun dual.
(In response to this post by Stech)
1y
says nothing about what any other conferences are or are not doing.
(In response to this post by Stech)
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Stech
1y
(In response to this post by Pylons)
1y
What is to be gained?
(In response to this post by Stech)
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Stech
1y
That’s absurd. Fight against 8 Auto Bids to the P2. Do it on rankings, not by what Conference you play in. I do think the rankings need to be tweaked to have preset criteria, and a better strength of schedule component in the rankings. However, 8 bids just because you play in one of the two power conferences instead of the higher ranked teams, is borderline corrupt, if not just straight up corrupt.
Fight against that!!
(In response to this post by VT ChemE 1986)
1y
The B12 has many good/okay teams but lacks strong brands (at least the ACC has Clemson, FSU, and Miami).
Two guaranteed spots are not a bad deal for them.
(In response to this post by Stech)
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VPI 1924
1y
and they are getting weaker every year!
(In response to this post by RandomAsianGuy)
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Stech
1y
is their game, not action.
(In response to this post by RandomAsianGuy)
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(In response to this post by Stech)
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Stech
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his feet like some, until he stops kissing the P2 feet like the rest of them.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
1y
do understand that VT is in a very vulnerable position, don't you?
(In response to this post by Stech)
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Stech
1y
Model for success. It’s about leaders that have guts!!
Notre Dame by the nature of their Independence is not a team player, they just care about Notre Dame, TerryD is spot on with that, and there is no reason to try to work with them (Like Swofford and Phillips). Yormark is acting like a wimp with a big mouth. He’s talking big, but talk is cheap, let’s see if he has the guts to stand up to the P2. If not, I don’t dislike him, but he hasn’t earned respect either.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
1y
I'm not sure where you're getting the impressing that Brett Yormark is capitulating or kissing anyone's butt. That's Jim Phillips' MO. Unlike Jim Phillips, Yormark is actively trying to create a product that people care about and want to watch. He at least tries to compete. Jim Phillips, on the other hand, acts like his dream in life is a never ending fruity cocktail party where everyone is eating expensive block cheese, pretending it's 1983, and giving speeches about student athletes and the college experience.
(In response to this post by Stech)
1y
which will give much more money to the P2 than to his own conference?
(In response to this post by Baltimore_Hokie)
1y
Also, what does that have to do with, or, alternatively, how does that invalidate anything I posted?
I'm not here to validate your ACC fan club membership.
(In response to this post by RandomAsianGuy)
1y
Phillips has got nothing to do with that discussion (I do think Phillips would agree as well).
I don’t know why you think I have an ACC fan club membership, but your remarks tend to be very condescending.
(In response to this post by Baltimore_Hokie)
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Stech
1y
is to turn the clock back and preserve ND’s Independence.
Yormark we mainly agree. However, this latest proposal to let the P2 have “8” automatic bids is disturbing. You will see better ranked teams miss the playoffs because they are not in the SEC or B1G. That’s a corrupt outcome, and he needs to stand up against it, and so do all the 8 other commissioners.
(In response to this post by Baltimore_Hokie)
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just so they won't take their ball and leave. It's not only stupid, it's cowardly.
The entire college football landscape needs to stop this cowardly capitulation to the SEC and Big 10 YESTERDAY. Tell them to F off and do what they want. I'm so sick and tired of it.
(In response to this post by Stech)
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TerryD
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Otherwise, its independence would be destroyed by the conferences.
ND cares greatly about its football independence, won't give it up and will fight to maintain it.
So, no, ND is not a "team player" where that cooperation might chip away, diminish or harm that independence.
Who else in the college football world cares about ND's independence and wants it to be sustained ?
Even the ACC would rather see ND's football independence obliterated in favor of ND's full membership.
Therefore, ND views everyone else as a potential adversary to its continued independence and has to defend it from....everyone.
(In response to this post by Stech)
1y
a team player?
If VT had an invite to the P2, would they turn it down the save the ACC?
If NBC offered VT a contract to be independent, would they stay in the ACC?
If the ACC was in a position to relegate the B12 to "G" status, would they advocate for them?
(In response to this post by Stech)
1y
The ACC is going to be a G5 by 2036 at the very latest. FSU, Clemson, Miami, UNC, VT, and others will never sign another GOR to the ACC unless media rights revenue is split commensurate with viewership, which the majority of ACC schools will never agree to. It's done; it's over. Arguing about the future of the ACC is completely useless unless you care about the future of ECU, Memphis, and Tulane football, because that's what you'll be arguing about.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
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Stech
1y
while the P2 run over top of them. You want to change it to it’s okay to be selfish, okay you feel that way, l recognize you think we cannot rise above it. That’s not the most important point though, the point is to not lay down because you are scared like Yormark, Phillips and the other Conference Commissioners. The point is to at least go down fighting, even if you lose the battle, win fighting for what is better for the game. Tell me you think giving 8 automatic bids to the P2 makes the game better. Tell me you think a better ranked team should lose access to the playoff to a one or two of those automatic bid teams. Are you telling me you think that’s right?
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
1y
We are almost to the point where there needs to be a new separate level for the P2. Let them have their own MNC and then let everyone else have a separate MNC for our level.
The longer we try to play this rigged game is just wasted time.
Going back 30 years to 1994, there have only been 5 national champs that are not in the current P2.
FSU x2
Clemson x2
Miami x1
(In response to this post by Stech)
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Stech
1y
(In response to this post by HokieAl)
1y
where the ACC gets more than 2 teams in and many scenarios where we get 1 or none. Fighting this does not improve the outcome for the ACC.
(In response to this post by Stech)
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Stech
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too. I used to say when I played football, guys, I don’t know if we are going to win or not, but I can promise you at the end of the game, they will wished they had never played us. We lost 1 game in 4 years, and I didn’t play the game we loss due to not speaking out enough…imagine that. 🤷♂️🤣
(In response to this post by VT ChemE 1986)
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CoolJCPA
1y
This gives 100% validity to Jim Phillip's idea that the regular season winner skip the championship game. This makes the ACC championship game of 2 vs 3 a play-in game. That might actually garner a little more excitement for a fan base thinking they may be able to win in a matchup of 2 vs 3.
I'm not saying I like it all, it just makes you think JP is just taking the scraps and smiling right now.
(In response to this post by RandomAsianGuy)
A 2 vs 3 battle is not a championship game. It's a play-in game. Still lame
(In response to this post by CoolJCPA)
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Marooned
1y
Improves the conference’s odds of making a deep run. I may not like the idea; but it’s an acknowledgment of the current state of play.
(In response to this post by Maroon Baboon)
That's fine. Just don't call it a championship game. It's insulting.
(In response to this post by Marooned)
1y
Which is why it will probably happen.
The ACC has been backed into a corner and doesn't really have any good options currently.
(In response to this post by CoolJCPA)
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hokieZ71
1y
If it’s this versus further expansion and killing the ACC, and VT having to wander the B12 while UVA soaks up an extra $30 million annually from the SEC, then I’m for this. All for this.
(In response to this post by HokieAl)
1y
same ballpark as the P2 probably needs to be dispensed with once and for all. Take the top 3 - 5 teams out of the ACC, and they aren't even close to the B12. Not saying the B12 is all that, but reality has not hit home for some in the ACC.
Without FSU, Miami, and even Clemson, the ACC is struggling in football media money. Solid football programs like VT are few and far between in the ACC. The B12 is littered with them.
The ACC needs to find a way to stick together. I'm way OK with the B12 being the 4th best conference, but it you lose FSU, ND, and Clemson, it won't even be close.
(In response to this post by hokieZ71)
1y
I get the sentiment, but I think eventually (by 2037) we will see a 14-team P2 invitational.
6 BIG teams
6 SEC teams
M2 champs or ND (if ND stays independent)
SEC and BIG champs get a bye (Rose and Sugar bowls)
90%+ of money going to the SEC/BIG
The 4-4-2-2-1+1 format would be one step short of that.
(In response to this post by RandomAsianGuy)
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Truthahn
1y
If they are determined to do that, let them try it all at once. I think they prefer to do it piece by piece, and of course they have been doing it for decades, starting with the BCS.
For now, we can probably legally keep them from calling the SEC/B10 championship the National Championship, or at least a different tournament all also claim that. That might be enough to call their bluff, and give some value to our tournament. After a few years of 442211, we can just be cut out, our best teams taken at that point, and no one will care.
(In response to this post by RandomAsianGuy)
1y
uneven leverage notwithstanding. How long does it take you to make this stuff up before you post?
(In response to this post by RandomAsianGuy)
1y
even before any reporter reported on the 14-team playoff proposal.
(In response to this post by Baltimore_Hokie)
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Stech
1y
on Netflix if you have not already. I also watched the NASCAR rise and fall just focusing on a handful of drivers. It works in the short term, but can fall fast in the long term.
(In response to this post by RandomAsianGuy)
1y
Lesson #1: Don’t underestimate the other guy’s greed.
(In response to this post by Stech)
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Stech
1y
back!! It’s bad enough to lose, but it’s worse to lose without fighting. That’s far far worse and never ever goes away!!
(In response to this post by RandomAsianGuy)
1y
lots of elite teams who now beat up on each other causing more losses and drop in rankings. They made choices and now don't like the results so they want to change the rules. They made their bed they should have to deal with it. Why should a lower ranked team be left out so the #4 SEC or B1G can get in. I hope these efforts fail. If they want four teams in then they should win their games like everyone else. If they think their conference games are harder than others; its the conference they chose to build. Time for the P2 to live in the world they built.
(In response to this post by RandomAsianGuy)
1y
matchups. What did they think would happen? The days of the consolidated blue bloods all having undefeated seasons or one loss seasons are over - and they are paid handsomely.
If the networks want bluebloods to square off in the playoffs, then they are going to have to go back to smaller conferences, and we know that will not happen anytime soon.
They want their 3 loss (4 loss?) teams to get into the playoffs, and it's a sham.
(In response to this post by wwhokie1)
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Stech
1y
based on the end of the regular season. (Before the end of the season they are meaningless) However, just giving it to them because they play in a Conference, should be taken to court immediately if that happens. If you thought the NCAA was about protecting the blue bloods versus an equal playing field, you ain’t seen nothing yet, if this goes through.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
1y
double the CFP slots for themselves. I'm sure ND will be on board with guaranteeing themselves a slot every year too.
All this does is de-legitimize the ACC and Big 12, codifying their status as second class citizens. You never come back from that. If the brain trust of either conference had any cojones at all whatsoever, this proposal would be taken as an insult, a complete non-starter.
(In response to this post by RandomAsianGuy)
1y
they stopped being that a long time ago i know but now its not even close now.
** Edited by VT Pez4Life at 1/22/2025, 9:03:36 AM
(In response to this post by RandomAsianGuy)
1y
All of us who embrace student athletes, are being left behind... sad... but harsh reality
(In response to this post by VT Pez4Life)
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I85Hokie
1y
So as not to penalize losers of the conference championship games. But the rule would have to apply to all four of the power conferences.
(In response to this post by RandomAsianGuy)
1y
Of course the P2 are meeting to give themselves more power. That's not progress. That is the victors carving up the territory they want and throwing some scraps to everyone else.
No league at any level in any sport guarantees playoff spots in unequal distribution to certain groups. This is the only sport where they don't want to let the on field results control the playoffs. There is plenty of money in other sports, but somehow this is the one that actively decided to trash the 75% in order to focus on the 25% that has been anointed as worthy.
(In response to this post by RandomAsianGuy)
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hokieZ71
1y
SEC with 16 teams, sets up two divisions of eight teams each and awards each 1st and 2nd place team a CFP bid. Since everybody plays everybody in the division, it’s very easy to have schedules of parity.
B1G with 18 teams, does the same, except divisions of 9. This has the added benefit in the B1G of eliminating East Coast to West Coast travel completely.
ACC and Big XII follow suit with 8 or 9 team divisions except only the champions of each division get the bye. ACC and Big XII would have to decide whether or not to let their top two in each division face off in a divisional title game -and thus be teams 15 and 16 in an unofficial 16 team playoff.
Highest ranked G5 champion gets in and ND gets in if it’s in the Top 16. If not, the next highest ranked team gets ND’s at large bid, regardless of conference.
New playoff will be seeded according to rankings. No byes of preferred seeds for conference champs. In this world, being a division champ will mean everything (like the NFL)
This can help with an earlier start date for the CFP with the elimination of conference title games and can back the CFP semifinals up to New Year’s Day (which should become an annual tradition).
I’ve heard the talk about conference title games being money makers but an opening round of the CFP with 8 games would far trump the money coming in from conference title games.
(In response to this post by RandomAsianGuy)
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Stech
1y
Auto-Bid teams with rankings not as good? Please explain how that happening is fair. I am trying to understand the logic here.
PS I get there should be better rules around the rankings and strength of schedule, but this wreaks of a rigged system.
(In response to this post by RandomAsianGuy)