** ** Edited by INSIDE99 at 7/7/2024, 11:15:45 PM

And making fun of him for making such a vague comment. That's pretty much the topic of this thread.

Those are next week & the following week. Pate mentioned the SEC Media Days once as a possibility of news breaking on expansion. All I can see is FSU agreeing to pay big money to exit ACC. My understanding is Clemson cannot afford it.

Was actually poking at Pate on this thread. His Sunday show the first 90 seconds talks about something starting this week, never mentioned realignment actually. Like, OK, cool...something in college football is going to happen this week. Could be the House settlement or whatever. Pate just being completely vague on a prediction about nothing. So I just went with the theme of this thread.

I now fully understand your first comment. It does fit in here as Pate's predictions are the subject of this thread. Pate seems to be getting more vague as time passes if that is worth anything? Pate can be as vague as he wants until August 15. I only get fooled by these people once. I would listen to my nephews speculate on expansion before a lot of those YouTubers.

the same. TJ said FSU and Clemson could move as early as June 30th, but no later than August 15th. Pate said a couple of weeks ago, before the next 9 Saturdays someone will make a move, most think he’s talking about FSU and saying they are announcing they will leave before the season starts. Pate has been vague IMHO all along. Now like a weather forecaster, they can say things changed. I don’t get hung up on dates because things do change, the proof to me is after it happens, when those involved starting publicly talking and give us their account of what happened.We will know a lot more, but almost never everything. People who have negotiated a lot of these arrangements know everything is a moving target. I will give you this, if you will give me that. The bottom line to me, is what do ESPN and Fox want? They are paying the bills.

Boy if they did that, it would definitely upset Charlotte event as well as the other team's opportunity for marketing their football programs. What would The commissioner say in regards to the State of the Conference?? Also, if they announce they are leaving, would that eliminate them from participating in the charlotte event and no consideration for preseason recognition.... ?? Aukward./..

host and callers on Moen After Dark that might fit Pate's descriptions. 1. ESPN announces it is not renewing the ACC contract past 2027, basically making the whole conference (and ND) free agents. 2. BigXII announces a private equity deal large enough to make a splash. Anyway, take it for what it's worth. I'm not really sure what to think at this time.

get away from the ACC but we still do not know if that ESPN thing is just a look in that would do no more than adjust the ACCN more than the TV deal. Way too many have latched on to the idea that ESPN sees really nothing in the ACC and has the power to get rid of the ACC with a snap of the fingers. I don't believe that. 2nd unless there is a total agreement from the ACC schools, the idea the GOR ends with ESPN saying no, is still very much in question. So it will be full speed ahead to federal court. Is there an agreement that would be more attractive to the majority of the ACC members? There is one and that is for the exact opposite to happen. That is a settlement that ESPN agrees to the TV contract as is or better until 2036 and in exchange, the ACC and members vote to allow FSU and Clemson(maybe ND too) to leave with only an exit fee. The ACC nor the majority of teams lose anything under this arrangement, FSU and Clemson gain their release and due to not having to buy out their GOR, go to the SEC as ESPN directs and at a less than full distribution. That would still put them in much better position that having to pay hunderes of millions in GOR penalties of fight a long protracted court battle. ESPN gets what they want in keeping all but ND in their stable.

They need to lock up power conference content across the country with national brands without paying everyone SEC money. Nuking the ACC makes no sense from their perspective to me.

and they know another network would grab the ACC contract in some respect.

They want to make the P2 the P3 and think their only shot is to become a national conference by taking a lot of ACC teams.

Clemson & ND leave? Will UNC and any ACC school that could possibly leave the ACC be satisfied with that Pay-Out drop? 2036 is a long time to be satisfied.

remember this is big picture and not just what the ACC cost and returns are. If they can keep FSU, that is a heck of a return as whether we like what FSU is doing or not, they are the most valuable brand. Of course they signed an Agreement so that trumps everything. Under what I laid out, the GOR remains in full force after FSU leaves so I am not sure anyone else could buy it out. Remember my thought is that ESPN "buys" the vote of the league to let FSU walk in return for the current media deal continuing. Then, FSU gets to go to the SEC for no GOR buyout but an agreement to take less than full SEC payout and ESPN pockets the difference. The ACC is revenue neutral, ESPN makes money and FSU makes more money than if they lose in court.

a big and weak assumption that the GOR remains in force if ANY school is allowed to leave without paying the rights fees. At worst that is a lawsuit waiting to happen by others wanting to leave and being forced to still pay and the other end of the spectrum is the floor for the fee has arguably been set at zero or will require a large amount of accounting gymnastics to reestablish the value to leave.

commensurate with their revenue split. There landing spot has to be the B1G.

...the SEC grabs the "Magnificent Seven" and possibly also GT.

How do you think the B1G will make Miami a powerhouse again? Same with the other Florida directional schools. Georgia Tech hasn't been any good since they were in the SEC. They will all be a repeat of Rutgers in the B1G. Those schools are little threat to the SEC if they go B1G. The SEC probably wants FSU, Clemson & UNC. I don't know what school the SEC takes for #20. The B1G probably just takes two, those could be Kansas, Notre Dame if they would agree. A Virginia school could come into play as # 20 for both the P2. All this about two Super Conferences of 24 members that would take many ACC members & take more Big-12 members. I think Big Media, ESPN & FOX would have to totally orchestrate that. That could be something that happens well after the next expansion wave. There are people here that represent the Wakes, Duke & BC's of the ACC. Most recently came here. They fear a PAC result for the ACC. They desire the ACC to remain the same. They still bolster the ACC GOR & the ACC high value to ESPN as their talking points.I ask them why hasn't ESPN just extended that June 30, 2027,dead line on the ACCN Contract? That would instantly end this expansion crazed train on the tracks. ESPN KNOWS THAT! That window opened in 2021 or 2022 as I understand it. The only excuse for ESPN waiting is they wish to see what happens with FSU & Clemson. ESPN is not waiting because they want to keep the ACC payouts the same or increase them. ESPN could sign today and do those things after the FSU & Clemson cases are decided in court for or against the ACC. ESPN is only waiting because they wish to reduce those payouts to ACC schools. I think probably drastically if both FSU & Clemson leave.

...talent than any school in the country. They also have a "smoke and mirrors" fanbase. Have you seen how many fans they take to an away game? The only time they have a good fan "turn out" is when they play a bowl in Miami, and 90% of those people dressed in Miami colors have never stepped foot on campus. Miami is a tiny private school. They are the opposite of what the SEC wants, but I wouldn't be surprised if the B1X takes them, especially since they twisted the AAU's selection board to take them in the last round. (They also took ND, and they aren't known as a research university, so the B1X telegraphed exactly who they want to add.)

What you say might go down if Clemson & UNC agree to the newly established ESPN Media Pay Out. If that ESPN Pay-Out stays the same? Clemson is already on record in filing a lawsuit due to that Pay-Out amount. Clemson would just have to drop that lawsuit on the basis of good will unless more money is provided to Clemson by somebody. Maybe Clemson will just conveniently now soon lose that lawsuit? You changed the scenario from your earlier comment to this second one. From FSU, Clemson & ND leaving the ACC to just FSU going. A lot of moving parts in both your scenarios if you consider all the players involved. I think this all boils down to a simple question. Does ESPN want to save the ACC?

Disney/ESPN clearly don't care a single iota about the future viability of the ACC, or they wouldn't be choking the conference to death by giving its direct competitors a media contract for double the money. Disney/ESPN WANTS the ACC, as currently constituted, to fail. All of the current maneuverings are Disney/ESPN's way of further consolidating football brands by separating the wheat (FSU, Clemson, Miami, VT, and other football brands) from the chaff (Syracuse, Wake Forest, Boston College, SMU, and all the other do-nothings that nobody cares about and nobody watches.) By creating strife with a situation where Vanderbilt is getting paid double what FSU and Clemson do, Disney/ESPN's strategy is ultimately to extract the viable football brands from the ACC and put them elsewhere; then, they can turn around and pay the dead weight like Wake Forest and Boston College $1 million a year each for their media rights vs. the $40 million they're paying them now. Even if Disney/ESPN ends up paying some former-ACC schools more, they will end up saving a ton of money overall, and can put Wake Forest and Boston College at the back of their streaming-only line-up and produce those broadcasts with remote announcers and two 30-year-old 720p cameras, because nobody watches games like Boston College-Holy Cross and Wake Forest-Charlotte anyway. It's all chess, it's not checkers. It only seems like checkers to the common observer because the seismic moves happen suddenly and cause massive fallout.

ESPN...err...Disney believes it can get the most ROI. Yes, ESPN makes money off the ACC. However, if ESPN takes the money budgeted for the ACC and reallocates it in either the SEC, the FBS Playoffs, a P2 Super League, pro league(s), or something else, then ESPN could see a larger ROI than what it currently sees with (or projected from) its ACC investment. Now that the NFL has equity stake in ESPN, it may be worth to keep tabs on how much of a voice the NFL has in future business decisions made by ESPN. If the NFL owners don't want spend money to help fund a minor league system, then the owners could get ESPN to do the dirty work for them by agreeing to sponsor a P2 Super League. Plus, if ESPN's coverage shift even more towards the NFL and less to the other pro leagues, then it could prompt the other pro leagues to want to buy equity stake in the network. Particularly if they conclude the NFL is financially benefitting greatly from the arrangement. The more pro leagues that have equity stake in ESPN, then the more voices that could have a say in the future of collegiate athletics in this country.

Is ESPN better off financially by reducing or eliminating their financial investment in the ACC is just a small piece in all the financial elements you detailed. A small piece in the financial platter you laid out but a big piece to people that are ACC fans. Will ESPN make more money by putting FSU & Clemson & a few others in the P2 than maintaining the status quo in the ACC? Will the money raised from those newly formed P2 match-up games enabled by newly entered former ACC schools. Plus the canceling of pay-outs to those left behind ACC schools all balance out to more money for ESPN? You can be sure the ESPN accountants have calculated those projected credits & debits over & over in the recent years.

a temporary piece until they can complete their P2. Why pay them more than whatever the "new" ACC gets if consolidating P2 matchups is the best financial return? I still think the P2 needs essentially a farm club system for players, coaches administrators etc. IMHO it will either be one league with 3 divisions, PAC, Big 12 and ACC) or those 3 will be 3 completely separate leagues. I also think big media stops all game content production for that level and lower and instead buys produced content where they need it. That one kind of intrigues me as Vt and Cuse have great sports communication depts and have all the ACCN hardware all were required to install.

expense for on campus expensive broadcasting studios was a very bad omen. No SEC school was/is required to do that by ESPN. Why were ACC schools required to do that? Just saying the deal was negotiated that way does not really explain that severe expensive inconvenience. ** Edited by WarHog38 at 7/10/2024, 8:56:28 AM

except for blueblood vs blueblood games and to buy content from non bluebloods produced in or from their own studios.

Studio. However It doesn't explain why no SEC school was required to buy a broadcasting studio full of expensive equipment. It was just an ACC thing.

People talk about how ESPN has money issues. Cut the production and broadcasting crew down to just what they need for P2 and just buy the rest.

schools have broadcasting studios on campus paid for by ESPN? The answer to your query could most definitely be a bad omen for the ACC. However, it could also just be a representation of what ESPN learned in the course of the initial SEC network set up and the logistics and costs.

doing the number crunch dance. If nothing else it serves as a doublecheck to make sure whatever figures ESPN presents at the meetings aren't full of...WHAT!!!

It would knock the ACC in the head with those lawsuits on trying to enforce that GOR past 2027. Buying back media rights for three years is not like needing to buy them back until 2036. Much less expensive. Waiting just a couple of years would put everybody that wants cheaply out of the ACC. However why would ESPN wish to do that now instead of just waiting to let it all play out over the next couple of years? Are ESPN & Disney so tight for money that they see the money gained by ripping the ACC apart as the sooner the better? Greed would be the only justifiable motive in ESPN announcing that. ** Edited by WarHog38 at 7/8/2024, 9:05:17 PM

** Edited by 132863Hokie at 7/8/2024, 10:19:26 PM

motivation for announcing anything prior to the current existing deadline of February 2025? What size PE deal for the Big 12 would qualify as more than a fart in the wind?

even venture a guess. Won't stop this realignment junkie from speculating: ESPN was required to produce the media contract to the court in FL. It may expose something ESPN wants to keep under cover. They might be encouraging The ACC to settle quickly. 0r... ESPN seeks to get the realignment moves finished in time for the new CFB contract in 2027.

The ACC said they were working on a redacted copy that would give the parties the info they needed to determine what rights are in play. I could be wrong but I don't think ESPN has had to produce anything. None of the FOX or ESPN contracts for any of the conferences are public info.

the media contract. I am just trying-out some possible motivations you inquired about.

and what control the B12 would give up is another discussion. There have not been any releases, discussions, or interviews about those questions since they said they were exploring private equity - so your guess is as good as mine, or anybody's.

have PE firms involved. NBA, MLB, NHL, MLS, and others. Those deals involve things like merchandise, marketing, branding, and international markets - and my very limited research couldn't find many details. The consensus is that PE firms buy a company. and break it up - and while there are examples of that, it isn't necessarily what they all do. They will certainly want a return on their investment, but than can come in many different ways. Some PE firms have expertise in management, negotiations, branding, operations, ... etc. There are reports that college football is way undervalued in regards to the media contracts. If that is the case (not my argument), if they can get a 50% to 100% raise in the media deals next go around? Can they open international markets? Can they blow the top of the brand and merchandise? Can they negotiate naming rights? There are many other ways that our schools earn revenue - so honestly, the imagination can go pretty far. Can they raise the value of the B12? What would that take? Could they pay a FSU or a ND (just examples, not predictions) enough to come to the B12? What would that be worth to the networks? If the B12 IS undervalued, maybe it would make sense. I don't see it though - but I have no idea what they are negotiating.

What I do not understand is what do they own. What physical assets can they sell to cover their "investments"? Football field, stadium, practice facilities, Office space occupied by coaches and administrators? I guess I too dense to understand. I need someone to explain how this works simply enough for me to understand.

If it happens. It doesn’t seem like a good idea.

what they just bought, an assigned right to a percentage of conference revenue streams. Likely few, if any, hard assets they would want to own. They increase their returns by increasing the revenue streams to which they have access. It is akin to the companies that purchase annuities, structured settlements, etc. by discounting future cash flows to be received to an upfront lump sum payment with one difference. If they can grow those future revenue streams their piece gets bigger. The trick is the exit strategy to find someone else to step in their shoes OR to negotiate a return of principal at a prescribed later date. The roll of the dice comes when their payback period is longer than the existing contracts. In essence, these deals likely turn out to be term loans with prescribed balloons and/or terms renegotiation dates.

think basketball is underrated. Underrated because at a minimum the NCAA 🏀 tournament IMHO will expand to keep paying for Olympic Sports. However, the Sweet 16 gets paid out more like the 🏈 playoff money, mainly to the participating teams. However, PE money for instance is probably going to make it so if Kansas or Arizona make the Sweet 16, they may have to pay some of it back to the PE, versus other Conferences that don’t have the money from PE. I guess the way to get the return is to use it for NIL to recruit players, or maybe even just pay players to come there, depending on what the rules are for playing players. That said, the whole thing is weird to me. I have a hard time getting my arms around it. However, if there is money to be made, I am sure PE’s will jump into it.

are akin to legalized loan sharks and we all know what is likely to happen when you go swimming in shark infested waters.

The PE firms aren’t getting into this for anything other than future value. What future value does the Big 12 have? 1) The next round of CFP $$$. And 2) The value of the next B12 media rights contract. How many times have we heard the B12 fans talk about their next contract in 2030 or 31 or whenever being where they separate themselves from the ACC, who is locked in until 2036? That makes a lot of sense giving the rise in value of these media rights deals over time. Well…if that’s true, then it will now be the PE firm that takes a big chunk of that profit. They also take a chunk of the profit from the next CFP deal prior to that. They won’t have to pay players a darn thing the entire time and they won’t infuse the B12 with another billion dollars of cash, they’ll just own 15-20% of the B12 when the B12 “cashes in” 5-6 years ahead of the ACC. I guess the trade off for the B12 is that it gets to fund its football programs to be competitive with the P2 over the course of those 6 years. But it won’t really reap the rewards at that time. (This is also when the SEC and B1G get their new deals…) I don’t know, I suppose going this route does keep the B12 ahead of the ACC for 6 more years in stead of even. But the B12 is ahead of the ACC already, in a manner of speaking. And it also basically puts the Big XII in close to the same long term situation the ACC is currently in, which is being completely noncompetitive with the P2 because its locked into a bad deal with a partner that is only interested in generating profit. ** Edited by hokieZ71 at 7/9/2024, 9:55:46 AM

they want to be better than the ACC. It will be to put themselves to compete with the P2. There are clearly teams in the ACC that could bring value to the B12. Whether or not they want to make that move is a different question, and continues to be litigated on this board and social media. When FSU gets their walking price, or ESPN makes a move, things are unsettled. PE could pay the exit fees for a Clemson or a VT for example. Louisville and Miami become key if UNC bolts.

“I guess the trade off for the B12 is that it gets to fund its football programs to be competitive with the P2 over the course of those 6 years.“

than 6 years, or it's a waste of money. I do not think this would be money to just fund the athletic programs - if it is, I will be very disappointed.

The B12 has to get something (short term $$) and PE firm has to get something (mid-long term ownership stake in the B12). I’ve already discussed why future B12 valuations aren’t totally measurable until there’s a new media deal, so I can definitively state a PE firm is going to get something valuable at that time. *Disclaimer: The B12 stays at 16 for this* So let’s do a hypothetical based on rumors. PE buys 20% of the B12 for $1.2B in June 2025. This would be when the B12’s next media rights deal starts and 6 years away from the expiration of the deal with ESPN/Fox. This deal is worth $2B total over a 6 year period, so giving up $1.2B for a 20% stake of a $2B valuation isn’t a great deal on paper for the PE firm. And you better believe if the B12’s present goal is getting a cash infusion to compete now with the P2, then the PE firm will be receiving very little of that $2B in annual payments. So let’s assume PE gets $0 payments in return over the next 6 years. So… I’ve been very generous to the B12 here. PE is giving them $200M annually in exchange for a 20% stake and $0 annual payments in return. How does this help the Big 12? They get $200M per year over 6 years. Split 16 ways, each school adds $12.5M annually to its revenue. That’s great. Let’s say (to make things neat) the B12 was $25M in the hole to the P2, it just closed the gap by half. Great. So, we gotta talk about what the PE firm is going to get. They aren’t giving the B12 $1.2B over 6 years just to help a friend out in need. They want a sizable return on their investment. Well, they will get a good idea of what their investment is worth when the B12 negotiates with ESPN/Fox/CBS/NBC or whoever…. This will be 6 years from last June when the Big XII signed their about-to-be current media rights deal. Now, I’m going to make this scenario as good for the B12 as I can again. Inflation is still going right now, but slowing some, and we are about to go into a likely recession in 2025 at which point inflation stops and then we likely see a period of growth beginning in 2026 on through 2029 around when the next Big 12 deal will get worked out. Kansas and Houston each win an NCAA hoops title and Oklahoma State and Kansas State each take magical runs to the semifinals of the College Football playoff all between 2025 and 2029. So, we assume the value of the B12 is much more in 2029 than it is today. This is good for the Big 12….and the PE firm that owns 20% of the Big XII. So what happens in 2029? Let’s say a deal gets worked out between ESPN, CBS and Amazon Prime for total coverage of the Big XII for 6 years from 2031-2036. Now, average payout to the Big XII increased from $18.3M per team to $31.7M per team in this most recent deal. That is a 73% increase. Let’s assume the same 73% increase in annual average payout (and yes, for more teams). So, $31.7 * 1.73 = $54.8M annual payout! ($23M more!!) Times 16 teams equals $658M. Way to go Big XII! $658M times 6 years $3.95B dollars. Let’s just round up and call it a $4B dollar deal for the Big XII! Awesome! But, $0.8B of that $4B dollars(20%) goes to PE firm. $131.6M of that annual payout goes to the PE firm. $11M of each school’s annual payment goes to the PE firm. So each school only sees $44M per year. This is $12.2M more than they were making solely from their media rights deal before, but…they also now lose out on the $12.5 cash infusion payment they were getting form the PE firm. SO…they lose money, $300K per year in fact, on out in 2031. Now…the PE firm has put in $1.2B from 2025-2030 and is now seeing the possible distribution of….$0.8B in return from 2031-2036. Not bad, but the PE firm wants to cash out. So they sell their 20% stake to a different PE firm for…$2B dollars. They make a solid return on their investment, get their cash and move on. The new PE firm now has 20% stake in a $4B valuation of the Big XII over 6 years and the prospects of getting $131.6M in annual payouts from the Big XII’s media rights deal during that time. But….they know the Big XII schools need that $131.6M annually, so…they cut a deal, the Big XII schools retain their full media rights share of $54.8M per year (yay!) in exchange for another 10% stake in the Big XII. When combined with their new CFP payout of $25.2M per team (which I haven’t even discussed that the PE firm owns 20% of….again, I’m giving the Big XII all the latitude I can with these numbers), each Big XII school will be pulling in $80M annually in exchange for PE firms now owning 30% of their league. The Big XII can’t say no, they have to remain competitive with a P2 that will now definitely be getting well over $100M total per year and lets say the total NIL distribution payroll for a schools competing in the CFP leagues now run in excess of $30M annually. (We are hearing $20M now) So, I can see the Big XII making it work for another 12 years, but that cycle is going to start to hit harder when they can’t sell much more of their rights. (I can’t see them going over 33%)

math, but you assume that the schools need additional revenue to be competitive. They do not - nor does the ACC. If they go to a PE firm, and distribute that money to the schools so they can win a few more games to improve their media deals, it's dead on arrival. If PE money is used to increase the revenue of the conference (many ways to do that), then it could make sense. What did the NBA give up with their PE deal? What did they get? The NHL? What if, and I'm not saying this will happen, they use that money to pay Clemson's and Miami's exit fees from the ACC? You are playing the short game, I'm looking out longer. VT's athletic budget is WAY lower than FSU's, it's not even close. K-States budget is WAY lower than Oklahoma's. This was true before the recent moves by the conferences, and it was true before the recent media deals. FSU currently has the same media deal as FSU - why the disparity in revenue? Same thing for the B12 schools when compared to Texas and Oklahoma. VT and K-State were both going to conference championships and competing with the richer schools - so to me, the PE deal has nothing to do with the product on the field, it has to do with creating additional revenue. That money will not be distributed to the schools as you suggest. Not a chance.

I get what you’re saying but I can’t see (outside of adding better schools) how anybody in the B12 office (or ACC for that matter) can use cash to increase revenue on the scale necessary to keep up with the P2. You’d need $160M in added revenue per year to help 16 schools get $10M closer, which would still leave a sizable gap. And adding on top of that you’re giving up ~15% of your league’s rights to a 3rd party. Again, something like buying out Miami and Clemson would move the needle for sure. But why would Clemson go without getting more money on top of a free buyout when they’re leaving loads of bus trip conference games in the ACC that are on par with the level of competition in the Big XII?

of any of these moves make any sense - except for the money. In order to increase media and playoff money would be to have 3 conferences, not 4. If FSU and Clemson go to the P2, and ESPN balks on extending the media contract- a Miami, or (pick a team or teams) may need some enticing. A B12 conference with the 4 corners, and mag 7 schools not invited to the P2 might bring enough value to make it work.

Their options were Mountain West / WCC or ACC. They can’t play with UCLA or USC or Oregon/Washington/Arizona, etc… anymore. The Big XII wasn’t knocking on their door. Kinda no brainer. The ACC is top of the line outside of football.

the country would have even imagine that Cal would be in a different conference than the PAC, let alone the ACC. Just like USC being in the Big 10. College football has been turned upside down, so nothing would surprise me moving forward, and nothing is off the table, until it isn't.

how many exit fees $1B might pay and more importantly how existing members might feel about using funds that belong to their conference, and indirectly to them, without a good explanation as to how those funds would be repaid and/or provide a future return.

bring the type of value that would give an ROI to the conference, and make it worth while for the PE firm. Just throwing up some theories here.

2 to 4 members will leave for the Big 10 and/or SEC over the 2 to 4 years. ESPN will force the ACC to add new members who will increase the ACC men's basketball value (UConn, Memphis, San Diego State, Gonzaga ....??? Maybe even steal Kansas from the Big 12?). The SEC (with ESPN's blessing) will take some of the ACC's football-first schools who want to flee the basketball-centric ACC.

He overall had a pretty creditable program. His podcast pretty reasonable not crazy. He"s has a good rep for interviews. He didnt need to get into the rumor mill. Kinda hurts his reputation.

like he missed? Did I miss something recently!

next week (but he said it a couple days ago). So I'm not sure which week he means, this current week, or next week.

he could be right, that is up until August 15 passes. Then it is wash, rinse and repeat as the rumor mill resets and begins again. The reality is when it happens these guys will claim they knew it all along and hope people will forget all the previous prognostications that died on the vine with no truth and even less accuracy. ** Edited by 2hhoop3 at 7/8/2024, 5:09:14 PM

look at expansion history. In that history, there have been no leaks until the deal is done. This stuff is just too fluid to stake your reputation on

There really isn't anything of substance to "leak" until any deal is done... There were many "rumors" during the lead up to the expansion when VT entered the ACC... Which schools voted which way, the ACC visit to VT, etc. Without podcasts and with message boards just coming into their own there wasn't as much info readily available - but it was out there.

saying VT is the only member to get accepted. That literally happened overnight. No one was predicting that

two people who only joined TSL in the past 2/3 years and you were following as "closely as possible" when VT joined in ~2004 Unlikely. and I was living in GSO at the time. There were rumors.

You are so right, 'too fluid to stake your reputation on" Overall, I really like his podcast, 99 percent of the time, he's got good informative content, not crazy stuff or presentation, just narrative about college football. I know if you are in the podcast world where the number of hits is all that matters, Josh made a killing on his statement. He should just leave it.....and go to other subjects.

The way to viral views & internet celebrity status is a big scoop on college football expansion. Just excuse being truthful on the basis of the historic underground nature of all past expansion events. It just all invites these YouTube talking wannabe glamor boys into spinning big yarns. We have had this rampant now for three years since Texas & Oklahoma announced ditching the Big 12. Pate did put himself on a very short lease which is rather odd for his types. I think the expansion blow-up is now at least 1 year away. It could possibly not happen for two years until early 2026. ESPN is controlling all this. All those lawsuits stewing and imminent expiring TV Contracts are part of ESPN's background plan to shroud all this. I will watch things with interest until August 15, then when nothing happens. I will forever forget Pate like most those other YouTube clowns.

Did he get fired or something? Get caught with a not so hot babe?

;-)

what the OP refers to. It seemed like a good opportunity to tweak another podcaster trying to feign knowledge of a scoop that was likely little more than reading the tea leaves of publicly available calendars.

I don’t follow Pate, but he does sell t-shirts online. That’s about all I know about him.

on his signature t shirt look.

rather than later. Now TJ Pittinger FSU College Football Addiction guy said he thought by June 30th, but Pate basically said within the next 9 Saturdays, but did I miss something else?

he is a tarhole which should explain at least a little.