Tech is so much better than the big 12. this will suck.
40 Replies
H
Hokie83
2y
(In response to this post by olemisshokie4life)
2y
and ACC....that could be enticing
(In response to this post by Hokie83)
Rather go SunBelt?
(In response to this post by olemisshokie4life)
Where is this coming from?
My brother called me yesterday, he lives in Vegas and his daughter goes to VT, and he said he heard a rumor we were going to the B12. I didn't ask him where he heard that.
(In response to this post by olemisshokie4life)
2y
Are we talking football? All rev sports (football and basketball)? All sports, rev and non-rev?
If football, what determines better?
- all time record
- record last year
- record past 5-10 years
- MNC appearances/titles
- NFL draft picks over a period of time
- other
Are we talking fans? If so, is it...
- tv ratings
- average attendance at games
- size and location of alumni bases
Are we talking the school itself? If so, then is it...
- size of school enrollment
- school academic rankings
- research money
- state size and economy where school is located
- size of town/city the school is located
- etc.
(In response to this post by olemisshokie4life)
V
VPI 1924
2y
We can’t win in Virginia. The Big 12 in football is better than ACC. Way better.
(In response to this post by olemisshokie4life)
V
VPI_1998
2y
once UT and OK leave officially, it is not.
(In response to this post by VPI 1924)
2y
moving forward is the ACC contract. We can argue all day on which conference is better - but in my opinion, the PAC, even after USCLA left was better than the B12 - in a lot of metrics (just not men's basketball). That did not get them the contract they needed to stay together as a conference, and now the B12 has former PAC teams in their conference.
Not a single one of us on this board could have predicted that just two years ago.
I admit freely that currently, the ACC is the better conference, by a lot of metrics (just not men's basketball). Is it enough to keep the conference together?
The PAC had some bottom feeders. The same can be said about the ACC. The B12? Parity from top to bottom. No stand out program, and no program that everybody wants to kick out. Just good solid programs with athletic budgets that are all in a narrow range. Maybe a team or three separate themselves, but it's wide open on which program can achieve that. Could even be a program that isn't currently in the conference.
(In response to this post by VPI_1998)
2y
(In response to this post by VPI 1924)
S
Stech
2y
Do you really think because he knows a few people in the Virginia Tech Athletic Department, he knows what is going to happen? The people that know, if there are any, are probably being as tight lipped, and they aren’t sharing anything, because things can change on a dime. Do you remember what happened in 2003?
Playing out the worst case scenario, although I doubt anybody knows right now, but if a few schools left, and VT wasn’t one of them, why would they leave the ACC? The remaining schools would be more of a fit. Add UCONN, USF, Tulane and Colorado State or Rice, you have a much better fit for Tech than the B12 IMHO.
(In response to this post by olemisshokie4life)
Rice and Tulane are a couple of reasons we are in this mess now
Small private schools.
(In response to this post by Stech)
S
Stech
2y
Fox has the B1G for 🏈, and next year it will also have B12 for 🏀 too.
I think ESPN will have the SEC for 🏈, and the ACC for 🏀. I understand your concern over private schools for 🏈, and that’s why I mentioned USF, UCONN and Colorado State. However, urban located schools like that Tulane and Rice IMHO have potential for 🏀.
Lastly the point of the thread was to say, I don’t think Tech will be left out of the P2, but if they are I think the ACC will stay, but be a 🏀 first Conference, like the B12 will likely be. I know Pylons doesn’t like that the Presidents and Chancellors care about Academic Profile for an Athletic Conference, but that doesn’t stop certain ones thinking that way, especially the ones in the ACC.
Just so you know where I stand if the Mag 7 leave, I think Virginia Tech will be included, probably in the SEC.
(In response to this post by VaTechHokiesACC)
2y
most everyone around here *****es about already being in the ACC
(In response to this post by VaTechHokiesACC)
2y
Amazing the number of 'experts' from schools like Radford or other small institutions, who think they know VT and see where they are.
BOTTOM LINE, VT total enrollment is almost 40k and a billion dollar program. these small schools represent only one department at VT.
(In response to this post by Stech)
S
Stech
2y
(In response to this post by olemisshokie4life)
2y
But lets say that FSU/Clemson/UNC(+NCSt?)/Miami leave the ACC and you replace them with UCONN/USF/Tulane/Rice.
Yikes, that's going to result in a dreadful football conference with a paltry TV contract and no auto-bid to the playoffs.
The B12 is a crappy option, but at least they're probably going to remain relevant through sheer volume of teams and markets.
(In response to this post by Stech)
S
Stech
2y
So now Tier 2 is ACC, B12 and G5 doing their own playoff. We are not going to leave the ACC for the B12 in that situation, that would be ridiculous athletically and academically.
(In response to this post by HokieNoVA)
2y
for the B12. NCSU, Louisville and Pitt also fit the mold. Top mid tier conference schools that lack the blue blood brand, similar athletic budgets, top to bottom, no weak links (no top brands either), and if you stack up K-state football with VT football, the similarities are astounding.
VT used to set themselves apart academically, but with the addition of the 4 corners, that is no longer the case. If, and it's not a prediction, those 4 schools from the ACC land in the B12 because of the media contracts, the East wing of the conference will have WVU, Cincy, Louisville, VT, Pitt and NCSU.
A conference that large, with no blue bloods and that kind of parity, could most definitely go to geographic pods and maintain their parity until one to three schools set themselves apart. A drivable schedule for your pod looks pretty enticing to me - whether you call it the ACC or the B12. The competition would be fierce, and the fan engagement would be fun. Makes for pretty good television if you were to ask me.
Be careful to not get hoity, as we are talking football here, not social stature.
(In response to this post by HokieNoVA)
V
VPI 1924
2y
Thats all ACC football has to offer. The rest of the ACC is a great fit with the Big12.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
V
VTCALS72
2y
the Pacific or Atlantic coast areas. Neither want to be or see any value in being a part of a conference in another region of the country. National will work for the P2 but will not work for "Top mid tier conference schools that lack the blue blood brand, similar athletic budgets, top to bottom, no weak links (no top brands either)"
My guess is that WVU hated the idea of having to go to the Big 12 and further even though that worked out fairly well for them, none of the 4 teams in the ACC you mentioned are the only current P4 team in their state. IMHO other than the specific schools die hard fans, hardly anyone in PA, VA, NC or KY gives a rip about the Big 12 or anybody that is in it.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
2y
that gives them the most media revenue, and the best chance to be relevant. It has nothing to do with how good, or how bad the B12 is perceived.
Will the ACC get their contract extension at the going rate or not? More? Less? That reality is the only metric that will matter if teams leave your conference. Everything else is an emotional fans perspective.
(In response to this post by VTCALS72)
V
VTCALS72
2y
The emotional response is that somehow the B12 is going to be the only option just below the P2. My guess is both the Big 12 and ACC revenues from media will drop to roughly an equal place. I do believe the B12 got as much as they did last go round was 1)ESPN had not invested in and was not providing $$ from a "network."
2) ESPN and others saw that extracting the remaining 5 they want is going to take some time so they are in a bit of a holding pattern. ACC is being used to "hold" Stanford and Cal. The Big 12 is being used (and paid) to hold the PAC refugees until it can be rebuilt.
3 pretty much equal media money conferences or 2 divisions under a new umbrella.
That is what I see.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
2y
because both ESPN and FOX bought content. Could that have happened if the B12 was getting their own network? Frankly, I don't know.
No matter what happens with the ACC, we are pretty stoked out here with our new conference. I don't here any Big12 fans lamenting that they are not in the P2 - you see, we have already been through this crap.
We're ready to play ball, and compete in the playoffs. The P2 can do their thing, and the ACC can do their thing - as it's not even a thing out here.
(In response to this post by VTCALS72)
S
Stech
2y
Your GOR is not that long, and probably nobody’s GOR will be safe if FSU wins in court.
There are many ways this could end up going, and the only people that say they know right now are likely lying, even if they end up guessing right.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
I don't see Kansas leaving unless one of the p2 offer
(In response to this post by Stech)
2y
that being said, the ACC's leaders seem to be suspect. That, and the only way KU or anyone else walks from the current B12, will be because the ACC contract is significantly better than the B12's.
The contracts will be the linchpin of any move to or from the B12 and ACC. It will have nothing to do with the fans, geography, rivalries, or any other metric one can come up with. It will be the money, exposure, and inclusion that will prompt any such move.
This has nothing to do with which conference is better - it has everything to do with ESPN, and what they desire the ACC to look like.
ESPN is eerily quite, and could extend the ACC contract today - with enough of a raise to keep it together. Currently, I see no reports that ESPN and the ACC are in negotiations - and that just doesn't sound good.
(In response to this post by Stech)
S
Stech
2y
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
2y
but the recent announcement of their streaming deal could open them up to collusion and litigation - and as we both know, FSU doesn't seem to have a problem going to the courts.
If it's just FSU, the ACC will stay together and be competitive - and a contract negotiated and an offer to the ACC would compel the schools to once again, sign documents - and we all move on. It really is THAT simple. If FSU doesn't want to be a part of the ACC then, let the litigation come to whatever conclusion is in the cards.
(In response to this post by Stech)
S
Stech
2y
Plus the ACC knows that it will probably not stop at 1 school, so I doubt they are interested in just laying over.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
S
Stech
2y
play a big role too. The huge endowment private schools like Stanford and Notre Dame are way more independent than the state schools. The athletic money is pocket change to them, they have Billions, and millions from TV networks just don’t matter as much as they do to many State Schools.
One thing I learned from my time in the financial industry, don’t make the false assumption that everyone thinks like you, because they don’t many times. They have their separate needs and wants, and it’s best to take the time to figure out what they are if you are going to work with them, and not assume your needs and wants are the same.
** Edited by Stech at 3/14/2024, 9:24:27 PM
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
2y
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
V
VPI_1998
2y
along with ESPN is to pick off the remaining big brands left in the ACC and Big XII and relegate the rest to a lower tier that eventually will not be in the playoff. It won't be long before the TCUs and Cincinnatis of the world can't be in the playoff.
(In response to this post by olemisshokie4life)
2y
will implode. All the money in the world will not allow 1/2 of either conference to be the top dog. That will only go to the top 3 or 4 per year. A LOT of brands and bluebloods will be watching the playoffs from the sidelines with their 3 and 4 loss seasons.
All the money in the world will not elevate Indiana to the national championship. The TCU's and Utah's of the world will most definitely be competitive - and win a natty from time to time.
(In response to this post by VPI_1998)
V
VTCALS72
2y
They hold most of the sway over both the ACC and the B12 and probably nothing will happen without not only their blessing but also their direction.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)