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Roanokie Roanokie OP
Nov 18, 2023 at 02:32 PM ET
Notre Dame and NBC renewing their deal today.
Announcement coming at 3:00 pm.

77 Replies

S
Stech
Any news on how many B1G games they’ll play each year to get this contract?
T
TerryD
There are no such requirements in the new NBC deal
I suspect the schools will schedule each other, but nothing in the NBC deal to mandate it.
S
Stech
Thanks, have a link on that?
T
TerryD
A link to a negative ??
No.
S
Stech
A link to the agreement information, that’s not even close to a negative.
mrcaniac mrcaniac
Big 10's primary contract is not with NBC
The Big10's tv contract is with the Big10 Network, and then the Big10 Network sublicenses the games to NBC and CBS. Any road games that ND plays against a Big10 school will be available for Fox to air since they have the 1st choice of games, and they will definitely want first dibs on ND games. NBC can't dictate the terms to the Big10, Fox dictates the terms to the Big10.
S
Stech
Good information, I still wonder why NBC paid so much more, it has to be
more P2 games IMHO. Otherwise, why pay so much more? Notre Dame is not top in the ratings compared to Alabama, Georgia, Ohio State etc. They have not won a National Championship in decades, they have been trounced whenever they made the playoffs, they lost their coach to LSU. Sooner or later the math has to add up. It’s hard to believe this is not about playing more P-2 games, IMHO.
T
TerryD
ND is the fourth highest viewed team in the country this year
ND trailed only Colorado, Alabama and Ohio State. NBC's ND game averaged over 5.1 million viewers this year when the new deal was signed. That is why NBC paid Big money to renew the deal. ** Edited by TerryD at 11/22/2023, 12:43:49 PM
S
Stech
An objective comparison would be ND versus 18 B1G teams & 16 SEC teams, but
again it’s not ND’s fault that networks don’t look at it that way, or the playoff committee for that fact.
T
TerryD
What??
mrcaniac mrcaniac
They draw viewers
TAnd they draw advertisers. Ad buyers in New York/LA/Chicago all know who and what Notre Dame is, and they are more inclined to buy ad time on a network airing their games. NBC will pay about $7M per game which they might not be able to recoup in advertising during the game, but sports programming serves as a way to bring viewers to a network that might not be watching it, and in the fall the networks are launching new shows so they want those new eyes seeing the promos for the new shows. Also, not all advertising buys are done for particular shows, some are called ROS which is basically "best time available". Those rates are based on all network programming, so ND football increasing those ratings will help increase those rates.
reestuart reestuart
It gives them a very solid lead up game to their prime time slot.
If they couldn't get ND into the Big Ten, this is the next best thing for them.
mrcaniac mrcaniac
Getting Notre Dame in the Big10 probably means fewer games for NBC
So this is actually the best thing for NBC, ND going to the Big 10 would actually be worse. NBC doesn't get first dibs on games, so NBC would end up only getting about 3-4 ND games a season under the Big10 contract.
reestuart reestuart
Very true
reestuart reestuart
I imagine it won't be anything official, but at the same time, they'll
get pushed to play at least a couple a year.
S
Stech
That’s a lot of money, you might be right, but I find that hard to believe.
However, Notre Dame, gets the same amount of votes for the playoff committee as the entire soon to be 18 team B1G and 16 team SEC. So maybe you are right. Maybe NBC doesn’t care who they play.
T
TerryD
What do you find "hard to believe" ?
S
Stech
"ND gets the same amount of votes for the playoff committee as the entire
soon to be 18 team B1G and 16 team SEC." You don't find that hard to believe because of your myopic view of ND versus all the other Power Conference teams. I admire your loyalty, but you have zero objectivity on this subject, good for ND that they can get away with this while, Alabama, Georgia, and Clemson have won multiple National Championships in the 2000's. I don't blame ND or your myopic view for letting them get away with this, it's because the other Power Schools and NBC let it happen. It's good for ND, but not college football. College Football is becoming more like the so called Professional Wrestling or NASCAR, they just want their giant names to win, and ND is certainly that, even 45 years for a National Championship after winning 10 in just over 50 years is not really winning much comparatively speaking.
T
TerryD
They are free to go independent and lobby for the same treatment as ND
S
Stech
True, I blame them for allowing this, not Notre Dame. I also blame Swofford
for convincing a lot of people like me and ACC Presidents you would join. He then doubled down and hired an ND homer who cares more about ND than the rest of the Conference with his expansion. There have been lots of bad decisions, and the new guy continues to do what’s best for ND and not the Conference. Someday IMHO it will catch up to him and Notre Dame, but not yet. All you have to do is look back at Big East football when Miami and Virginia Tech were top 10 and top 5 teams. Now Big East football doesn’t exist and both are struggling in football every year, and this time the ACC will survive, but be much weaker. I get why you think that is okay because it’s okay for Notre Dame, but to me and many others in the ACC it’s sad basically watching the same movie twice. Shame on the ACC for continuing to buy the Fools Gold, but many are finally done with it too. ** Edited by Stech at 11/23/2023, 12:41:38 AM
3
33laszlo99
It's not just The ACC who treats ND as a special case. The others also
tend to give The Irish whatever VIP status is required to keep them out of a competing conference. The SEC does not want ND in The B1G, The B1G does not want them in The SEC or ACC, or any where else but The B1G. Notre Dame does a fine job of leveraging this dynamic. Their value to a conference, a media company, and the advertisers comes from their long tradition as standard bearer for Catholics everywhere, but even more so, today, because of the breadth and depth of their footprint. They aren't just regional or national, but literally international in their reach. Advertisers know that and love it.
S
Stech
Oh the SEC & B1G didn't want them to join the ACC, they did everything they
could to stop it, including create a 12 team playoff without having to be a Conference Champion to qualify.. If that had been done, there would be a Power 4 and not a Power 2. Basically 16 team Conferences with a the Conference Champion from the Power 4 going to the Final 4. The next big thing, is paying revenue producing football and probably basketball players as employees with benefits and maybe even unions. Then what doe ND do? What does Duke do? What does Stanford do? How do you pay for non-revenue sports? So much to come IMHO and it's probably sooner rather than later.
3
33laszlo99
Stech, I think all college athletes will be classified as employees, even
those in non-rev sports. The conference media payouts will fund those salaries. Notre Dame will be fine. They have a big, fat media deal and a loyal donor base. NIL will be the real battleground, not player salaries.
S
Stech
Check out my original post above, I am not so sure about NON--REVS getting
paid. A whole new organization could be created for these tier 1 athletes that are generating Billions and not just millions. As the podcast I linked said, Congress is already working on it. I see either academic or financial need scholarships being used for NON-REVS. I have talked to several NON-REV College Coaches over the last month and they told me that happens a lot already for their athletes. So the model is there. Just break away athletic scholarships from academic and financial need scholarships.
T
TerryD
The Supreme Court will soon rule that all athletes are employees.
Once that happens, that is that. All of them will be employees by operation of law. No tiers regarding athletes as employees by conferences or schools. No "models" to the contrary once the Court rules. And yes, privates schools like ND and Stanford are still flush with cash and will be fine. Some public schools? Maybe not,
S
Stech
If that happens when do you think it will happen? I get that Stanford & ND
have billions in their endowments, but will use it to pay athletes? If it ends up paying all athletes, where do you see the money coming from to pay them? Endowments, TV, where?
T
TerryD
Donors, TV, apparel deals, etc...
How do schools pay administrators, coaches, etc....? They figure out a way to do it. Maybe stop paying coaches $100 million dollar deals with $76 million buyouts, for a start. The thing is that college football has been operating illegally for decades with the "student-athlete" fiction. Those days will soon be over, for everyone.
T
TerryD
ND announced loud and often from the rooftops ....
...that football would never join the ACC. It really amazes me that some people didn't believe its consistent and persistent public announcements about this since 2012. ** Edited by TerryD at 11/23/2023, 2:47:19 PM
RTFC RTFC
The ACC agreement also said/says IF they joined a conference for football
it HAD to be the ACC - I believe it still does unless bought out. Many people thought - some very few still do - that ND would/will have to join a conference for playoff access - even ND said that exclusion would have likely been a game changer. Someone thinking that eventuality would put them in a conference - and thus in the ACC under the agreement - was/is not complete dream land. And ND agreeing to this with one side of their mouth - while saying - no football conference ever (public or private) - out of the other side - is the exact typical attitude that people rightly fault ND for having.
T
TerryD
The contracts says that "IF" ND gives up independence......
...ND didn't mind agreeing to this since it never had/has any intention of giving up independence. So, that a agreement was no burden to ND, easy to agree to. It gave the ACC the "Dumb and Dumber" type chance if by some upheaval, it was first in line for ND (unless the contract was broken and damages paid out by ND, if the Big Ten deal was worth it to do so). That was like a 60 year old confirmed bachelor who never intends to marry telling someone "IF I ever decided to get married, it will be to you."
RTFC RTFC
My IF was capitalized.
and it's kinda like the chance of the other party in that relationship getting pregnant...of course the typical ND attitude would to be let me buy my way out...even with their stated mores....that's the attitude many ND fans portray - that they are oblivious too.
T
TerryD
Its a legal reality
It has nothing to do with ND or the attitudes of ND fans. The old saying is"Contracts are made to be broken". That is why lawyers haggle over contractual language. Contracts are broken hundreds of times a day across America. That is why we have courthouses, to determine the appropriate damages for those multitude of breached contracts. ** Edited by TerryD at 11/26/2023, 8:26:33 PM
RTFC RTFC
Agreed. And certain types of people break them more than others.
I deal with them on a daily basis. EXACTLY the attitude I'm talking about - and no, not everyone thinks like that.
T
TerryD
My 32 years as a civil litigator....
...convinces me that just about every type of person or entity breaks contracts when it suits them to do so.
RTFC RTFC
If all you deal with is litigation, that's going to be your experience.
Didn't say it wasn't the likely option - actually mentioned a buyout - but just because something is legal doesn't make it the right thing to do from an appearance perspective. Kinda like going to someone else's house and insisting on your point of view - even if one is an overall knowledgeable person, it portrays an attitude. We'd have fun at a deposition - I've frustrated quite a few litigators as an expert witness starting in the early 90's.
T
TerryD
Not all that I have done
I have negotiated and drafted plenty of contracts. All lawyers who draft contracts do so with the assumption that they will be broken. Yes, we would have had fun, past tense, I have retired to the mountains of Grayson County now I dealt with and handled lots of expert witnesses over the years. ** Edited by TerryD at 11/27/2023, 8:59:31 AM
2
2hhoop3
It is pretty.........
enjoyable watching the expressions of a high priced litigator and their client when they get worked by a knowledgeable, effective and articulate expert witness.
T
TerryD
The reverse is also a lot of fun
S
Stech
Because other conversations went on privately, but I don’t expect you to
believe that, and it really doesn’t matter, because it is over now.
T
TerryD
Pure fantasy
Do you have a link to that ? :) Seriously, that beggars belief without a shred of any evidence at all.
S
Stech
Told you that you wouldn't believe it, they were private confidential
conversations. Consequently, I cannot prove it at least today, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. I know you have had things that you could not prove that did happen. You are not telling the truth Counselor if you say otherwise. Time to move on though, it really doesn't matter, Notre Dame Football will play their 5 ACC football games on average a year for over 10 years and possibly 20, "something you never saw happening", and be a conference member for the other ACC sports and because Swofford thought it would lure you in, you did join the ACC in 2020 for football and and made the College Football Playoff. Those are all irrefutable facts that at least two out of three "you thought would never happen." So you were about 66% wrong, and that's giving you the benefit of the doubt that you did see ND joining the ACC for all the other sports. If not, you were a complete whiff on all three. I am not sure why you pound your chest with those misses, but in the mean time good luck to ND being Independent while the P2 keep getting stronger and stronger every year. About $67 million a year sounds good until you compare it to the $80 million and growing the the P2 will make.
T
TerryD
I have seen people claiming the ND deal is actually $60 million +, but....
...since ND is private, there will never be an officially disclosed number. Also, I have seen mention that the additional of Comcast and the three new schools will push ND's ACC/ACCN payout to over $20 million. But, in any event, ND wanted the number to be "close enough" to the P2 figure (doesn't have to match) to stay both competitive and independent. Protecting independence was an overriding goal. ND was able to get those payouts without an exit fee, GOR buyout or having to even join a football conference. Mission accomplished. ** Edited by TerryD at 11/24/2023, 5:43:24 PM
S
Stech
Congratulations!
T
TerryD
Thanks, man !!
T
TerryD
If we are listing wrong predictions...
You thought "The Alliance" was something more than a PR stunt, that no 12 team playoff with six at large berths was going to happen and that ND football was going to join the ACC. That is 0 for 3 for you. I am unsure if you thought ND would successfully broker the additional of Stanford, etc al, but if you didn't , that is 0-4. Did you think that NBC would renew the deal with ND for $50 million a year ? If not, that is 0-5. :)
T
TerryD
My bad
I thought you were questioning the amount of ND viewers or the amount of the NBC contract Sorry.
2
2hhoop3
Mostly that people......
continue to kiss the ring and grant power and standing equivalent to a conference to a program that for the vast majority, if not entirety, of the last 30 years leans much more to mediocre than powerhouse. Appears the charade will now be prolonged until at least 2029.
T
TerryD
And probably way longer than that.....
Only other fans care about this, not the stakeholders.
reestuart reestuart
It would give NBC a chance at some of their road games.
T
TerryD
No, the deal is for ND home games only
reestuart reestuart
Yeah, I know. I'm talking about ND playing some games vs Big Ten.
S
Stech
True, but that’s not new, they already have them except away ACC games. New
money I would think mean more P2 games on NBC. It will be interesting to find out the details in their scheduling for more money with NBC. ** Edited by Stech at 11/21/2023, 9:19:38 AM
reestuart reestuart
NBC doesn't get any ND road games right now, so if they'd start playing
more Big Ten teams, it gives NBC access. Obviously, they wouldn't get first pick every time, but I'd bet at least once or twice a year they'd get ND away.
W
Windows NT
So I'm guessing they're not joining the ACC
S
Stech
Was over when a 12 team playoff was voted in & ESPN & Fox created the P2.
If the P4 and a 4 or even 8 team playoff with Conference Champs only had gotten through like many wanted, they would have likely been forced to join, but that ended a couple of years ago. They forged a very odd alliance against the ACC with the SEC mainly to get the 12 team playoff. The ACC has no one to blame, but themselves by hiring a Notre Dame homer who worked there and sent his kids there. By the way, Notre Dame won 10 National Championships in a little over 50 years, and the last one they won was 45 years ago in 1988, but they would rather be independent than win a National Championship. It's very very odd to me, but that is their culture and the first little over 50 years of 10 National Championships allows them to do that.
T
TerryD
Its 35 years
Plus, tell me the correlation between conference membership and winning national championships? Michigan has been in the Big Ten for 100 years. It has won exactly one-half of one championship (1997) since 1947. Many schools are in conferences and have never won one, VT included. Can you guarantee ND an automatic national championship in the next five years if it joins a conference ???
S
Stech
ND won 10 in about 50 years & 1 in 35 years, an objective person would see
that as a huge fall off, but I admire for your loyalty, but you are anything but objective. ** Edited by Stech at 11/22/2023, 8:43:53 PM
T
TerryD
You didn't acknowledge...
...that conference teams like Michigan have won less championships and conference membership doesn't mean national championships for ND
S
Stech
Acknowledged, now you acknowledge my numbers.
T
TerryD
Your numbers were wrong but also irrelevant to this deal
seekoHoG seekoHoG
ND won MNC in 1988 35 years ago.
S
Stech
Yep, correct, will correct, but 1 in 35 vs 10 in about 50, huge difference.
T
TerryD
It is 11 National Championships....
....between 1924 and 1988. How many has Michigan, Virginia Tech. Miami, Nebraska, etc...(all conference members) won in the last 20 years? My point? Whether ND is independent or in a conference is totally irrelevant to whether it is winning National Championships.
E
EDGEMAN
I think this means they won't be joining the B1X in the near term.
T
tarheelblue
Doesn't look like ND plans to join any conference. What a shock.
** Edited by tarheelblue at 11/19/2023, 10:47:45 PM
R
ren_hoek
Truly shocking
Have they ever even hinted at their desire to remain independent?
VaTechHokiesACC VaTechHokiesACC
Don't have to, what luxury to have
T
tarheelblue
$50 million/year from NBC through 2029,
Plus the $17 million/year from the ACC will be less than what B1G schools make per year. I guess money isn't everything.
D
daveinop
another data point for the next look-in
T
TerryD
Plus $17-20 million a year from the ACC
ND will receive P2 level money without having to pay an exit fee, a GOR buyout or even have to join a football conference. Not a bad deal, Jack Swarbrick. Well done.
Maroon Baboon Maroon Baboon
They also keep all of their bowl money, correct?
T
tarheelblue
All ACC schools will get to keep most of their bowl money now
thanks to the new unequal revenue distribution model that the ACC adopted.
L
LaneRat
Roth did a podcast a while back that hinted distributions won't change
that much.
R
RJHokie
And pay their bowl expenses out of that too - correct?
No subsidy from the conference as in the past - correct?
seekoHoG seekoHoG
Would revenue from lowest tier bowls cover the team’s expenses if
long distance travel is involved?
R
RJHokie
Probably not.
T
tarheelblue
I'm not privy to all the details, but I would assume so.