Anyone with a sub to Raleigh News & Observer who can fill us in on
attached link?
30 Replies
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WBGV
2y
John Kertz (Kansas State Fan) goes through the Raleigh News & Observer article. “In depth reporting on NC State's flip to vote for ACC expansion reveals an interesting nugget about two Big 12 teams.”
Video: starts at the 6 minute mark through the 25 minute mark.
(In response to this post by Femoyer Hokie)
this guy is monster Big12 homer and posts deluded things like
calling his team K-State a "blue blood brand with the wealthiest fan base in a America."
(In response to this post by WBGV)
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HOO86
2y
TCU was a choice for the Dallas Ft Worth market. The ACC will now already be in the DFW market, so no benefit of TCU other than rivalry. But that rivalry can be played by SMU with TCU still in the Big XII.
My choices out of the Big XII still remain WVU and Cincinnati. But the ACC didn't act on that opportunity. And I don't see the ACC comfortable adding with just pro rata and not a bump. That was apparent during the struggle for the 3 we added.
(In response to this post by WBGV)
2y
teams that will move conferences unless the P2 decide to add. No one out there moves the needle for either the ACC or the B12. They have been picked over.
I'd be careful of any story that implies that the ACC will poach the B12, or that the B12 will poach the ACC. The only moves on the board are to the P2 at this time, and if/when that happens, .... (insert speculation)
(In response to this post by HOO86)
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Mercury
2y
He has the better lay of the land, than most of us ever would get on message board. BTW when he started ISP, and commercialization of college media operations, in the mid-1980's, he started with Wake, and no 2, was Va Tech and Dave Braine and rest for ISP to mega merger with Leerfield.
(In response to this post by Millpoint)
2y
That said . Houston, Tulane, Rice sdsu and anyone more west witn academics highly woukd interest acc . Wvu for some reason is a no . Louisville included makes that narrative a joke.
(In response to this post by Millpoint)
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HOO86
2y
It will be basically Rice, Connecticut, Massachusetts, South Florida, Tulane, Baylor, TCU, Temple, Arizona, Arizona State, San Diego State, Colorado, and Utah.
I'd doubt the Big 12 ones unless an issue with their TV renewal in 2030 creates an opportunity.
(In response to this post by MrFantastic!)
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HOO86
2y
It's the Arizona schools ant Utah to watch. The rest will be fine.
(In response to this post by MrFantastic!)
2y
If not in the PAC12, then with Stanford and Cal.
(In response to this post by HOO86)
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WBGV
2y
$100 million dollar exit fee per school plus there isn’t any interest from TCU or West Virginia in leaving the Big 12 at this point. It was interesting to to hear about the text messages being exchanged between influential donors and ACC Presidents about expansion and the ACC’s future when schools leave.
Freedom of Information requests can reveal some intriguing discussions going on behind the scenes.
(In response to this post by Millpoint)
2y
Or is it only the ACC exit fee that is negotiable?
(In response to this post by WBGV)
2y
That NCSU didn't "flip" their vote because there was never an actual vote on expansion until it passed, and that NCSU's objections to expansion were addressed. Even some horse trading on an AAU support for NCSU from Duke, Pitt, Miami, UVA, Pitt, GT, Stan, Cal, and ND was rumored. Plus SMU coming in for no media money for 7 years was quite the bonus. Also, there was a group of schools against the "success initiative" if it meant that they will get less money than they were currently getting and that the new money from SMU/CAL/Stan should be used for that.
Plus, a lot of lobbying by the founder of ISP (WFU alum), and the former chair of the UNC System Board of Governors (WFU grad/UNC law/UVA MBA).
The ACC needs 14 fulltime members for the ACC-ESPN contract to remain in place, and the article stated that UNC-UVA were the 2 schools likely to join another conference while FSU would go independent, and that adding the 3 schools will guarantee that. If any other schools were to leave, then the next targets would be TCU and WVU in 2030 when the Big XII contract ends.
There was also an appeal to keeping the conference power base in the NC area instead of Atlanta or Chicago.
(In response to this post by Femoyer Hokie)
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Mercury
2y
after that vote, probably, NC State leadership talked to the governor and the chancellor of the UNC unviversity system. (without UNC chapel hill)
(In response to this post by Femoyer Hokie)
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Mercury
2y
Players and parties and the inner workings of the ACC.... and the influence of Sutton the retired Founder of ISP now part of huge leerfield.
a couple of take aways.
NC State thought UNC -CH were a package, and when the UNC Chancellor for the UNC system was told that UNC -CH will be fine,, but not NC State. That was eye-opening. And UNC -CH didnt realize that would go to NC State chancellor. boom... this might have broken a long term 'closeness' between the 2 schools.
I think its interesting now, that UNC University System is demanding oversight on all UNC campuses on ANY discussions to outside conferences without the oversight of the UNC chancellor. Kinda clipped UNC-CH wings. Also lets see that translate to some legislation in the NC General Assembly.
Sutton, statements to NC State.... was very eye opening.... and very pragmatic
(In response to this post by Stech)
I find it interesting one of the conversation groups was UNC, UVA, Clemson
commissioner.
(In response to this post by Mercury)
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Vippie1
2y
UNC-NCSU tied together
VT-UVa tied together
And a loose alliance between the two states.
If/when the ACC implodes....take the best deal for the whole pod. DC to Charlotte is a market that will be fought over.
(In response to this post by Mercury)
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Mercury
2y
You know big 10 and sec will try to pry us apart. But that market is too huge a void..
I also see that mac brown on scheduling felt it was a loss playing rivals like vt every year... interesting
(In response to this post by Vippie1)
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Vippie1
2y
that is why it works to those four schools advantage to have the time to figure out a way to leverage their selves -and not quickly react out of fear.
(In response to this post by Mercury)
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WBGV
2y
UNC is going to do what is in their best interest and efforts to stop them will likely fail. UCLA left CAL behind. Washington left WSU behind. Oklahoma left OSU behind. Oregon left OSU behind.
IMO, UNC will leave NCST behind. I don’t think either the B1G or the SEC is going to want both schools. If FSU and Clemson leave the ACC and UNC has an offer to join either the B1G or the SEC they will do so. The only question will be which one.
(In response to this post by Vippie1)
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Mercury
2y
There is only 1 state university in NC, its the University of North carolina, at campuses at Chapel Hill, Raleigh etc. Sports fans just think public schools and 'systems' can just willy nilly operate. Not so. and the State of NC is laying it down.
(In response to this post by WBGV)
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Vippie1
2y
and that solution isnt going to suffice in the states of VA or NC if one of their two major brands is in trouble.
(In response to this post by Mercury)
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Mercury
2y
Cal system has frankly never gotten involved into athletics, and UCLA management was always aloof of the system they were a member. by the time that Cal system found out about UCLA and Big 10 it was frankly oo late. They only way they could rein in some protection to Berkeley was the separation fees from UCLA.
However, since then UCLA has been subject overall to frankly micro management by the UC system. Their leashes to UCLA is very short. Frankly the school can't (to be crude) construct a portal potty) with UC system permission. Other states with one university system are taking note.
(In response to this post by Vippie1)
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Vippie1
2y
But UNC isn't going to be left out....period. if the state of NC demands they not make a move until NCSU has a satisfactory outcome, they lose nothing. Your other examples were different. Other than maybe Cal there was no leverage to do anything about osu and wsu . So it was take it or leave it. Not so ...I'll wager vt and uva end up together not separate. Again we will see.
(In response to this post by WBGV)
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WBGV
2y
UVA membership along with let say Notre Dame, UVA would turn it down unless VT was also invited.
That would certainly be a very admirable decision in this day and age, and one that I personally would love to witness.
(In response to this post by Vippie1)
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Vippie1
2y
where the only choice is take the burger offered or go hungry and out of abject fear you take the burger offered. i'm pretty sure if they want they can get the fries too. and I'm pretty sure unless VT gets a comparable burger somewhere they may not be able to take a burger anywhere.
Ultimately does the B1G want to cede VA and NC to the SEC or vice versa if presented as a choice. Maybe they are more than willing to both pass - my guess is one or both won't. FOMO .
(In response to this post by WBGV)