What is fsu really doing?
No real proof SEC desires? ND not coming to ACC. Big 10? Just how many do they ultimately desire . If money would work. Plus The BIg would love to enter the south . Spread across country . Watch the BIG . They can make a move from coast to coast.
47 Replies
3y
If Clemson and FSU want to leave, what would it take to vote them our of the conference? Then divide their media money amounts the other schools? I don't know to the penny what each team gets from the media deal, but splitting 40M a year till 2036 might be worth it. That would be 560M.
Let them take their case to the Big10 or ACC - if they want out of the conference that badly, good riddance.
You could punish them with a negotiated exit fee as well - How much is another 100M worth to the conference for instance?
It's how I felt about Texas and Oklahoma - Screw them, and take the money. Why let them dictate to the conference, It's going to happen eventually, so get the money while you can.
(In response to this post by MrFantastic!)
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Mercury
3y
Create a crisis, make big drama in the media and in chaos find a way to get their way.
FSU has NEVER in the ACC been collaborative, they have always came in as the 'national brand' that ACC needs, and expected to be the trophy brand. They never thought themselves as equal member and if they dont get their way, they send out rumors that they want to leave yada yada.
If you play that way great, other schools can treat them like commodities. If I were other members I would have more arms length from schools with that value.
I respect a school, that works behind the scenes, make no waves or public diatribe and works a plan 1) one see anyway to make it work or 2) create a tangible option out, get the lines crossed and be ready to execute quick fast and seamless... actually Maryland did that quite fast....
(In response to this post by MrFantastic!)
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WarHog38
3y
Years Watching this Expansion. I think of Sankey making a point several times of saying that Texas & Oklahoma had first approached the SEC. I think all that is a legal maneuver to avoid implications that the SEC is tampering with the memberships of other conferences. An anti-trust type thing.
If that is the case? FSU is probably now dead set on leaving the ACC for what they think is greener pastures. One has to think Clemson is probably on the same path, just taking the standard very secretive approach.
The question then moves again to North Carolina. Will they stay trying to make a go with the ACC like the Big-12 remnants. Maybe add West Virginia & maybe Cincinnati and forge on. I think one has to further analyze that. The Big-12 remnants have no P2 spot to land in. North Carolina does,
I think Clemson is a lock for the SEC. I don't know about FSU. They have aspirations about obtaining AAU status. Will FSU trade academic considerations for jaunts all over the country to play sports games. I do not know.
I am not sure the SEC wants FSU & Clemson. However the SEC might take them just to bar the B1G from going southern and also to attempt to enter the lucrative Virginia & North Carolina sports marketing areas. FSU appears to have yesterday got the ball rolling. However maybe FSU was just blowing hot air. It was bizarre.
(In response to this post by MrFantastic!)
I'd love to be a fly on the wall in SEC meetings when they talk about
adding FSU. Would UF want them or no? Does adding a team in a state that the SECN already has something that want to do? Will the SEC just take FSU to keep the B1G out? If so, in that case do they have to take Miami as well? Does the SEC even like FSU enough to make them a conference member?
(In response to this post by WarHog38)
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WarHog38
3y
Probably not anymore than Texas A&M wanted Texas. I think is was mostly a football recruiting thing with the Aggies over the more publicized Little Brother Complex thing. It would surely boil down to a football recruiting issue with the Gators as well if nothing else.
However you look back to 1990 when Roy Kramer was heavily pursuing FSU for the SEC. Little Rock had two major newspapers back then. I would read the sports pages of both every day and I never saw an article based on Florida bellyaching about an FSU entry into the SEC. Those votes for schools to enter to enter the SEC are always unanimous. That is everyone voting for the benefit of the conference. Not necessarily the school.
I think Miami is unlike FSU and the other SEC schools. Miami is a commuter college and FSU is located in the panhandle right below Alabama. Miami would be a lost Vandy in the B1G. FSU fits perfectly in the SEC. However I am hearing AAU here and on YouTube. FSU may go B1G . Who Knows?
(In response to this post by Maroon Baboon)
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HOO86
3y
Also Miami is a private research University and not a commuter school. FIU is the commuter school in Miami.
South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, and Kentucky all supposedly shook hands to agree to never support additions to the SEC from each others states.
(In response to this post by WarHog38)
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WarHog38
3y
Texas A&M supposedly joined that hand shaking bunch immediately after entering the SEC. How much good did that do the Aggies against the Longhorns?
I have been told that Miami University has no on campus college dormitories. Therefore the students must commute to school. That does mean Miami is not a private research university.
(In response to this post by HOO86)
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HOO86
3y
They have a lot of dorms and large apartment buildings.
(In response to this post by WarHog38)
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EDGEMAN
3y
(In response to this post by HOO86)
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HOO86
3y
But I've been to several games at their on campus baseball stadium and basketball arena. Just have to park in the garage.
(In response to this post by EDGEMAN)
If there is a wink-wink handshake deal, I think it is with the Big Ten.
The Big Ten has more to gain. And Greg Fluguar seems to have some FSU info. Maybe similar to the USC situation. Plus, the Big Ten has shown a willingness now to go big game hunting outside the region.
Let's see if ESPN or the SEC try to placate the Seminoles.
(In response to this post by HOO86)
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WarHog38
3y
I know a bag man is involved in a lot of SEC football recruiting too.
(In response to this post by Maroon Baboon)
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HOO86
3y
ESPN could allocate more money to FSU and Clemson only rather than have the other ACC members give up what they are expecting. It would be cheaper than paying them in the SEC. And prevents Fox from more Florida other than UCF in Big XII.
(In response to this post by Maroon Baboon)
3y
My usual longshot speculation: At this point, I think FSU is committed to their "Design For Departure" (apologies to Nelson Algren) and ESPN knows it. If they will have to pay P2 money for FSU and other ACC guys, they would probably rather see those schools head for The B1G. ESPN's ad buyers will not pay for more redundant spots covering SEC brands vs SEC brands. If The B1G expands it will call for more Saturday TV windows. ESPN could buy a chunk of that content and get a better rate for FSU, GT, etc. playing Northern/Western teams. The SEC will raise hell, but unfortunately they are committed to ESPN forever (2034.)
ESPN will get a taste of what the loss of The B1G can do to ad sales this coming season. And sadly, The SEC will see what life is like under the yoke of ESPN.
The public exposure of their plans tells the others who might follow to get started on their own escape plan.
(In response to this post by HOO86)
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WarHog38
3y
If the B1G manages however to sway FSU, Miami, Clemson, from the SEC. The SEC is still going to desire a presence in North Carolina & Virginia. It probably could be argued that those states would be a higher priority with the SEC than those Florida schools & Clemson.
Also, if the B1G has the power & influence to reel in all those more southern ACC schools. You would have to think the B1G getting UVa & UNC a done deal. That could leave Virginia Tech & North Carolina State for the SEC. However it could be the B1G would take all four of those schools. All that would explain why the B1G abruptly braked on the west coast.
(In response to this post by 33laszlo99)
Do you think the SEC is making a mistake by not expanding outside the
region?
(In response to this post by 33laszlo99)
3y
Is there a sequence of decisions that must playout before we start moving again?
NBC wants to bid on NBA content.
The amount they spend there will determine what they can offer to Notre Dame.
If Notre Dame doesn't like the number, they join The B1G or seek funding from ESPN to maintain independence. Again, ESPN does not care if ND joins The B1G, But The SEC cares.
If FSU and other ACCs split from the conference can Fox afford to adopt them? No guarantee.
If ND joins The Big it shakes loose the Fox money to add Oregon/Washington/Stanford.
The next two years could be pure madness... then comes the new playoff negotiation.
(In response to this post by Maroon Baboon)
3y
It's true, but we sometimes assign value to it unecessarily. Southern teams play out-of-region opponents on the regular. It doesn't diminish the Southern football culture. I see occasional posts warning of the danger of losing that "faith." I think it has already caused The SEC to paint themselves into a corner. They Have an astonishing stable of big brands. But they are compressed deeply and densely into the region. Advertisers generally will prefer broad populous markets. SEC devotees are convinced that the "Brands" are what gets viewers. We will see. The typical FB fan in The South harbors an emotional loyalty to their team. They assume that their media partner does too. But ESPN cares about who is watching, not who is winning. They do not weep when Alabama loses.
Kevin Warren came to The B1G with the intention of building far reaching TV vehicle. He was more willing to accumulate large markets than the presidents who could not dismiss academic notability.
Grabbing L.A. was genius. It crippled the remaining schools because they derived so much of their value from the association with UCLA/USC. If the best of them are reunited with those two giants, they will be reinflated. Causes me to favor Fox much less going forward.
(In response to this post by Maroon Baboon)
This would probably increase the intensity for the SEC to get UNC then.
Just think of the B1G gets UNC and ND. And what if the B1G decides to take FSU and Clemson. Might be a real problem for the SEC.
(In response to this post by 33laszlo99)
3y
either Florida school. That limits choices for The B1G. The SEC can't completely block The B1G from the south but they can minimize the damage. ESPN would love to stop paying four schools in N.C. but UNC/UVa might demand that Duke be included. They would use their B1G invitation as leverage. (Might be the only case where that would work.) The B1G's most desired additions are also UNC/UVa. but if The SEC gets there first, The B1G has to decide if getting a piece of Florida and Georgia would be worthwhile. (Definitely good for the BTN.)
(In response to this post by Maroon Baboon)
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WarHog38
3y
Just paying FSU what they are apparently demanding would be $30 Million a year. Adding Clemson would be double that. You hear a lot about ESPN cutting cost. Then what happens when North Carolina demands $30 Million? No nice guys with these type bucks.
(In response to this post by HOO86)
Will UNC want more money then? And if so, where does it stop?
(In response to this post by HOO86)
3y
(In response to this post by Maroon Baboon)
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Stech
3y
in the ACC Contract. The only way they can leave is if at least 8+ teams leave and the Conference folds. That's one in a million chance, so yes as Jim Carey said, there is still a chance. :-)
(In response to this post by WarHog38)
3y
when they lost a grand total of 2 conference games. They now lose that in a season.
(In response to this post by MrFantastic!)
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2hhoop3
3y
that's more like a normal month.
(In response to this post by mrcaniac)
3y
Not sure the B1G is all that interested in expanding anywhere...see CC's comments in the Friday Q&A about the unlikelihood of any addition being financially beneficial for the existing schools. They could make that move, but it's questionable why they would.
(In response to this post by MrFantastic!)
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Truthahn
3y
Somehow some of their boosters don't understand the price of leaving is $120 million plus no TV revenue for 13 years. With that hanging around everyone's neck in the ACC, no one is leaving any time soon.
The best they can do is try like everyone else to make it work until 2030 or so, and see what kind of deals we get then. If they don't like it then, then they can bail realistically. I think the B10 will probably take them then, even if they are bad again, but probably not the SEC.
IMO, what their administration is doing now is just for show to placate their boosters, and to remind the world that they are "back". If they did nothing now, because nothing can be done, the big boosters would be after their, um, scalps.
(In response to this post by Pylons)
3y
Yelling to ESPN and the conference, that the current situation is untenable.
They want action - or they will take it themselves.
This is ESPN'S problem to fix if they want the conference to stay intact, and I'm not convinced that they do.
(In response to this post by Pylons)
The ACC had a competitiveness problem before it had a money problem.
Now the latter is going to further complicate the prior.
That's why I said last year when Fuente was fired that the best thing VT can do to secure conference realignment satisfaction is to get good again in football and do it with all deliberate speed. All the other stuff (market size, state size, academics) is largely arbitrary. People want to see a winner. People want to see on TV teams coming into a jacked Lane stadium and having nowhere to hide. Be a product people want to see and the rest will take care of itself. I said when Fuente was fired that the next 3-5 years are key to VT's future conference security, and that the new coach will have his work cut out for him. Well, if Pry's first year is any indication, we are in an even deeper whole now. Especially if we consider that selective (cherry picking) approach the B1G and the SEC are now taking to their own expansion.
** Edited by Maroon Baboon at 2/25/2023, 3:45:13 PM
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
3y
No more Missouris or Marylands or Rutgerses are going to be invited in the future. The SEC and B1G have now picked over all the teams they really want from the Big 12 and Pac-12. Realistically there are only maybe 3 or 4 schools from the ACC that are still desired by the B1G or the SEC. The big 3 are FSU, UNC, and Clemson. Duke, NC State, VT, GT, and Miami are further down the list and at this point any of them are at risk of being left out.
** Edited by tarheelblue at 2/25/2023, 10:42:39 PM
(In response to this post by Maroon Baboon)
Yes. I'm shocked that the B1G has left UW in particular twist in the wind.
A far better brand than Rutgers, Maryland or Mizzou. Yet here they are. All while the B1G skims off the top and basically diminishes their value and existing conference. I think UNC is the only lock to have an invite to the P2 is it all goes down. Others will have invites I think, but I see UNC as the only lock.
(In response to this post by tarheelblue)
3y
Aside from Notre Dame.
(In response to this post by Maroon Baboon)
3y
populous segment of the country locked in for years to come. Streaming is not the panacea that it was perceived to be and cable is not going away anytime soon. ESPN's problem is the the ACC is declining in both football and basketball performance. It would seem that ESPN would help ($$) with that.
** Edited by IB4TECH at 2/25/2023, 2:27:23 PM
** Edited by IB4TECH at 2/25/2023, 2:27:49 PM
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
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2hhoop3
3y
they are standing on a roof top yelling, however, it is reasonable to question what action they can take for themselves. Their football program is the guy that just got out of the hospital from an extended stay but, is not far enough along in rehab to determine ultimate return to health. Their basketball program is a car approaching antique status and it is questionable how many miles the engine has left.
It is interesting to see all the Big12 guys on this board worried about the ACC and ignoring the carnival barker masquerading as the Big 12 commissioner. It is yet to be determined whether Yormark is more Larry Scott, Mike Tranghese or something worse.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
3y
a little kid who didn't get their way.
(In response to this post by MrFantastic!)
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Stech
3y
It's not a great recipe for Conference Stability, unless they expand the NCAA tournament to 90, and pay the Sweet 16 money out like they pay the Football Playoff 12, and more of it goes to the schools and Conferences.
That's important because most if not all schools emphasize either football or basketball. For instance North Carolina and Duke TV ratings (where the money is) for basketball are great, but not so much for football. They are just okay.
On the other hand when FSU and VT are in the national championship hunt in football, their ratings are great. However, even when we win the ACCT, we get good ratings, but not great ratings.
Back to the money, right now all the discussions are about football and they should be, but if they shift how the money is paid out for basketball. Then I think that schools could end up with lots of money if they can get the Sweet 16 or if they make playoff 12, The money would be there, but you just have to win.
PS Did you see where Scheyer stated he plans to recruit more transfers and less Freshman? That's a huge change! He's seen Miami and Wake get some great contributors from the portal, and don't sleep on Virginia Tech either. Our bigs transfers have gotten a lot better in February, and it's not just Basille either. It will be tough to repeat last year of course, but I expect we are going to upset some people in the next couple of weeks.
** Edited by Stech at 2/25/2023, 8:28:10 AM
(In response to this post by MrFantastic!)
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Mercury
3y
FSU is always about drama. I'm sure, not being a team player, affects what conferences target... You can bet those statements wouldn't be done by a big 10 school, and Florida knows all about FSU, and not keen with them either. I could even see Fla endorsing Miami over FSU.
(In response to this post by Stech)
3y
They don’t step up on D , They will be home early. Miami had their way like VT was in Christiansburg.
(In response to this post by Stech)
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Stech
3y
"right now", does that mean they will be the best in March? I still wish we could rest Pedulla more, that really helped Storm last year and we need it especially to improve our defense,
(In response to this post by MrFantastic!)
Maybe it's some old school brinksmanship and Nixonian-style triangulation.
FSU is throwing out hints that they want out of the ACC. They think the B1G wants in the South, especially after they went way out of the region to get USC. They also know the SEC wants to keep the B1G out of the neighborhood. So they are going to see who "offers" first, and most generously.
In fact, if you throw the ACC and ESPN into the mix, we could be talking FSU "pentagulation" . FSU, with all of its cues is telling the ACC, "look, the ACC is gonzo in 2036. But between now and then, we can do things the easy way (unequal revenue sharing), or we can do things the hard way (a massive legal, financial and PR battle of attrition over the GOR). But either way, we are going to get ours." FSU also could be telling ESPN, "You don't really want us going to the B1G, do you? Now, what can you do for Florida State?"
Anyway, I'm not sure FSU is this smart. But on the other hand, since you asked, I have just a small hunch (very small), that something could be brewing between FSU and the B1G. Pure speculation and conjecture though. No hard info.
(In response to this post by MrFantastic!)
3y
That's like when your gf loses 15 lbs, gets botox and starts having more girls nites out- ur ass iz about to get dumped.
The big thing is fsu is working towards their AAU accreditation which is a requirement to be a B 10 school....
(In response to this post by Maroon Baboon)
3y
More like an honor society.
Or academic snobatorium. Lol.
(In response to this post by kt22hokie)
AAU is not a requirement to be in the Big Ten.
So I think they might take FSU without it. Nebraska doesn't have it, and Notre Dame all but has an open invitation to the Big Ten as well and they don't have it and have no interest in getting it.
And if IIRC, the commissioner said it is not a requirement last year.
(In response to this post by kt22hokie)
3y
I know Nebraska doesn't have it any longer, but they did at the time they were admitted to the B1G.
** Edited by tarheelblue at 2/25/2023, 11:33:55 PM
(In response to this post by Maroon Baboon)