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There seems to be a lot of thought of the P5 breaking from the NCAA
That is an interesting concept that brings up some interesting discussion topics. To me, the first of which is, is that a football only conversation or an athletics discussion in general? If it's football, it's fairly easy and I can see a model like the ND/ACC relationship becomes more a norm. A situation like the Big12 stops having football, but remains for the remaining sports and the teams join other football only conferences built around the remaining P4. The conference people would fight it, but the institutions would likely see it as more money and thus support it. Then what happens to cupcake/balance the budget games where we play JMU/Richmond/Wofford, etc to get a supposedly nice easy win and they get a nice payday? Do those go away if they are under different "sanctioning bodies".
The other option is a true separation. That's the one with the most questions related to overall revenue. The NCAAs two biggest revenue producers are MBB Tourney and the College World Series (I imagine WBB Tourney brings in some nice change as well since it's televised).
Obviously those events don't exist any more for the NCAA if the P5 breaks away from the NCAA. Question is, do they still exist at the same revenue level if it's only the P5? How much interest and therefore revenue is lost if you take away the cinderella aspect of UMBC at 16 getting a shot at the hoos as a 1 seed? A lot of smaller schools have dominant baseball teams, does losing those hurt the value of the CWS as a media property? What happens to schools like the Big East who don't have football or it's such a low level as to not be even an option for P5 level competition? Are they gone from the NCAABT and the CWS? Obviously no talented player is going to Villanova if they don't get a shot to play in the tourney, some of the legendary and historic teams of CBB are for all intents gone.
I guess the tournaments could be independent, but with the massive revenue and thus scholarship money differential, how long would non P5 teams be able to come close to being competitive?
All the remaining sports for the most part cost money (baseball and WBB cost money at many schools too). In the end, IMO, the decision will be made based on how big a total revenue pie the P5 can create to divide among a smaller pool. Baseball could be a big winner, especially baseball players as the P5 schools could expand the available scholarships while adding the required women's scholarships to remain title IX compliant which is currently blocked by smaller D1 schools that can't afford the added women's scholarships. ND's economic question could change, similar to Texas who realized that the additional revenue from the SEC is worth more than their personal TV deal.
Of course there is a massive political question as well. A bunch of G5 schools are going to be left out and their athletic budgets will be destroyed by losing their share of all those revenue streams. There will be anti-trust threats left and right to get keep their piece of the pie. Think about how state politics in VA factored into us getting into the ACC, now expand that to 60 or 70 schools where those left out lose 80% of their athletic dept revenue (made that number up, but the number is huge).
At the end of the day, it will be about money and politics (which in reality is money to politicians). At some point those producing the money start to ask why they have to keep supporting the others. Seems like that is beginning to be asked now. The question is, how much of their ball do they take with them when they leave?
The other option is a true separation. That's the one with the most questions related to overall revenue. The NCAAs two biggest revenue producers are MBB Tourney and the College World Series (I imagine WBB Tourney brings in some nice change as well since it's televised).
Obviously those events don't exist any more for the NCAA if the P5 breaks away from the NCAA. Question is, do they still exist at the same revenue level if it's only the P5? How much interest and therefore revenue is lost if you take away the cinderella aspect of UMBC at 16 getting a shot at the hoos as a 1 seed? A lot of smaller schools have dominant baseball teams, does losing those hurt the value of the CWS as a media property? What happens to schools like the Big East who don't have football or it's such a low level as to not be even an option for P5 level competition? Are they gone from the NCAABT and the CWS? Obviously no talented player is going to Villanova if they don't get a shot to play in the tourney, some of the legendary and historic teams of CBB are for all intents gone.
I guess the tournaments could be independent, but with the massive revenue and thus scholarship money differential, how long would non P5 teams be able to come close to being competitive?
All the remaining sports for the most part cost money (baseball and WBB cost money at many schools too). In the end, IMO, the decision will be made based on how big a total revenue pie the P5 can create to divide among a smaller pool. Baseball could be a big winner, especially baseball players as the P5 schools could expand the available scholarships while adding the required women's scholarships to remain title IX compliant which is currently blocked by smaller D1 schools that can't afford the added women's scholarships. ND's economic question could change, similar to Texas who realized that the additional revenue from the SEC is worth more than their personal TV deal.
Of course there is a massive political question as well. A bunch of G5 schools are going to be left out and their athletic budgets will be destroyed by losing their share of all those revenue streams. There will be anti-trust threats left and right to get keep their piece of the pie. Think about how state politics in VA factored into us getting into the ACC, now expand that to 60 or 70 schools where those left out lose 80% of their athletic dept revenue (made that number up, but the number is huge).
At the end of the day, it will be about money and politics (which in reality is money to politicians). At some point those producing the money start to ask why they have to keep supporting the others. Seems like that is beginning to be asked now. The question is, how much of their ball do they take with them when they leave?
Thread Replies (49)
Sports Illustrated The Fight Over College Sports Is Here
-- harlote101
Jan 20, 2022 at 05:13 PM ET
harlote101
•
01/20/22 05:13 PM ET
Texas A&M and Jim Phillips have successfully changed the narrative
-- PaNDalum
Jan 20, 2022 at 09:55 PM ET
PaNDalum
•
01/20/22 09:55 PM ET
There seems to be a lot of thought of the P5 breaking from the NCAA
◄
-- Vienna_Hokie
Jan 21, 2022 at 01:07 PM ET
Vienna_Hokie
•
01/21/22 01:07 PM ET
If the P5s just want it to be either football-only or football and
-- VTHokie2000
Jan 21, 2022 at 01:48 PM ET
VTHokie2000
•
01/21/22 01:48 PM ET
Spot on, this summer I was doubtful this could happen, but Phillips has
-- Stech
Jan 21, 2022 at 07:52 AM ET
Stech
•
01/21/22 07:52 AM ET
Why would $85 million not be possible for ND as an independent?
-- Truthahn
Jan 21, 2022 at 01:09 PM ET
Truthahn
•
01/21/22 01:09 PM ET
NBC pays ND around 22-23 million a year
-- TerryD
Jan 21, 2022 at 01:40 PM ET
TerryD
•
01/21/22 01:40 PM ET
Honestly, not sure if this has sarcasm or not
-- RTFC
Jan 22, 2022 at 12:39 AM ET
RTFC
•
01/22/22 12:39 AM ET
He asked me why ND would not just stay independent in a P2 era
-- TerryD
Jan 22, 2022 at 09:34 AM ET
TerryD
•
01/22/22 09:34 AM ET
Agree, if ND chooses to accept a pay the players model
-- RTFC
Jan 22, 2022 at 09:58 AM ET
RTFC
•
01/22/22 09:58 AM ET
Doesn’t the acc pay VT 38 million?
-- Truthahn
Jan 21, 2022 at 09:14 PM ET
Truthahn
•
01/21/22 09:14 PM ET
Yeah, I see the writing on the wall.
-- goldendomer
Jan 21, 2022 at 01:25 AM ET
goldendomer
•
01/21/22 01:25 AM ET
A comment and question about Notre Dame tradition for you and @TerryD
-- Maroon Baboon
Jan 21, 2022 at 11:16 AM ET
Maroon Baboon
•
01/21/22 11:16 AM ET
It is beyond a tradition at ND. Independence is what made us the brand we
-- goldendomer
Jan 21, 2022 at 12:58 PM ET
goldendomer
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01/21/22 12:58 PM ET
It is not a "tradition". It is Notre Dame's very identity
-- TerryD
Jan 21, 2022 at 02:32 PM ET
TerryD
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01/21/22 02:32 PM ET
I think ND threw the origin story away with the partial ACC membership
-- Maroon Baboon
Jan 21, 2022 at 03:45 PM ET
Maroon Baboon
•
01/21/22 03:45 PM ET
I didn't say it was noble. I just said it was unique, based on history**
-- TerryD
Jan 21, 2022 at 11:33 PM ET
TerryD
•
01/21/22 11:33 PM ET
Actually it is partial independence, too. Independish!**
-- Truthahn
Jan 21, 2022 at 09:21 PM ET
Truthahn
•
01/21/22 09:21 PM ET
I like the ACC better, and loathe the idea of the Big ten
-- goldendomer
Jan 21, 2022 at 03:58 PM ET
goldendomer
•
01/21/22 03:58 PM ET
One of the main reasons ND independence worked
-- RTFC
Jan 21, 2022 at 02:01 PM ET
RTFC
•
01/21/22 02:01 PM ET
How did ND attract all of those eastern Catholics in the first place?
-- TerryD
Jan 21, 2022 at 02:29 PM ET
TerryD
•
01/21/22 02:29 PM ET
ND had a bunch of Catholic fans wayway before that
-- TerryD
Jan 21, 2022 at 05:42 PM ET
TerryD
•
01/21/22 05:42 PM ET
The reply was not contending....
-- 2hhoop3
Jan 21, 2022 at 06:35 PM ET
2hhoop3
•
01/21/22 06:35 PM ET
Nope. I didn't say traveling to play teams wasn't a good idea,
-- RTFC
Jan 21, 2022 at 03:18 PM ET
RTFC
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01/21/22 03:18 PM ET
ND fans are the only ones who count on this subject
-- TerryD
Jan 21, 2022 at 05:51 PM ET
TerryD
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01/21/22 05:51 PM ET
When they want special rules for a team
-- RTFC
Jan 22, 2022 at 01:09 AM ET
RTFC
•
01/22/22 01:09 AM ET
Don't forget the convicts vs Catholics games
-- EDGEMAN
Jan 21, 2022 at 12:09 PM ET
EDGEMAN
•
01/21/22 12:09 PM ET
Excellent post. In that scenario ND will end up somewhere, or
-- RTFC
Jan 20, 2022 at 11:35 PM ET
RTFC
•
01/20/22 11:35 PM ET
The re-org may be dysfunctional simply because the schools
-- VTHokie2000
Jan 20, 2022 at 10:04 PM ET
VTHokie2000
•
01/20/22 10:04 PM ET
Frankly, some of the non-rev conferences need realigning too.
-- Maroon Baboon
Jan 21, 2022 at 11:27 AM ET
Maroon Baboon
•
01/21/22 11:27 AM ET
Oh I agree that some non-revenue sports shouldn't be in a major conference
-- VTHokie2000
Jan 21, 2022 at 11:45 AM ET
VTHokie2000
•
01/21/22 11:45 AM ET
If the new association is a for-profit one, then what does that mean for
-- VTHokie2000
Jan 20, 2022 at 09:41 PM ET
VTHokie2000
•
01/20/22 09:41 PM ET
I didn't notice any time deadlines in the article - this can drag out
-- PadrosWindup
Jan 20, 2022 at 09:17 PM ET
PadrosWindup
•
01/20/22 09:17 PM ET
August: "the committee’s real work begins after the convention; a spring
-- Stech
Jan 21, 2022 at 12:37 PM ET
Stech
•
01/21/22 12:37 PM ET
I could see this dragging out to where the current contract has expired
-- VTHokie2000
Jan 20, 2022 at 09:43 PM ET
VTHokie2000
•
01/20/22 09:43 PM ET
Given the money to be made on a new playoffs I don't see that happening.
-- Truthahn
Jan 21, 2022 at 01:19 PM ET
Truthahn
•
01/21/22 01:19 PM ET
You are forgetting that a new contract or even a NCAA solution may not
-- VTHokie2000
Jan 21, 2022 at 01:37 PM ET
VTHokie2000
•
01/21/22 01:37 PM ET
Yes, a very small risk of the plus one ncaa game.
-- Truthahn
Jan 21, 2022 at 09:29 PM ET
Truthahn
•
01/21/22 09:29 PM ET
Under the current DI structure, a P5 Playoff would violate antitrust laws.
-- VTHokie2000
Jan 22, 2022 at 09:50 AM ET
VTHokie2000
•
01/22/22 09:50 AM ET
I'd prefer to fall back to the pre-BCS era honestly.
-- Maroon Baboon
Jan 20, 2022 at 10:09 PM ET
Maroon Baboon
•
01/20/22 10:09 PM ET
Me too, but I could see the schools (or the bowls) decide to
-- VTHokie2000
Jan 20, 2022 at 10:14 PM ET
VTHokie2000
•
01/20/22 10:14 PM ET
That mindset works for football, basketball, and a few of the non-revenue
-- VTHokie2000
Jan 20, 2022 at 07:38 PM ET
VTHokie2000
•
01/20/22 07:38 PM ET
Jim Phillips ACC Commish is one of two P5's on the restructuring committee.
-- Stech
Jan 20, 2022 at 07:13 PM ET
Stech
•
01/20/22 07:13 PM ET
Let winning be the standard. Bring on relegation and promotion.
-- Maroon Baboon
Jan 20, 2022 at 06:05 PM ET
Maroon Baboon
•
01/20/22 06:05 PM ET