For discussion, how would you feel about a separate playoff group?
With all the discussion lately I thought I’d share my proposal for change.
23 Replies
7mo
The general theme that I’m seeing is that you would prefer to see VT fight the uphill battle and compete against the P2 even knowing that the deck is stacked against us.
VT budget is 1/3 to 1/2 as much as the top rich schools.
The P2 has gotten 70% of all playoff spots going back to 2014.
The playoff at large path in the ACC is much smaller and harder than the P2 teams have.
Despite all that, you seem to want to keep trying. I can respect that.
(In response to this post by HokieAl)
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VT_Skier
7mo
And only if VT is in it. Anything that moves VT down to a lower tier has me checking out of college football altogether. I'm pretty sure there are quite a few fans at quite a few schools that feel that way.
While this model may sound like opportunities for others to win a championship I don't see it that way. It would be the equivalent of winning the NIT. It's nice, but not really relevant. Only the top most tier really counts. I don't watch FCS, D2, etc. championships for a reason.
(In response to this post by HokieAl)
7mo
involved. If everyone has a chance to move up, and everyone assumes the risk of moving down, that would be great for the health of the sport. I am against suits arbitrarily deciding where lines are drawn. Settle it on the field and sell the competitiveness.
(In response to this post by VT_Skier)
7mo
Haves and have nots. Even a salary cap would struggle as there are lots of non-salary things that can be done to attract and retain talent.
(In response to this post by Maroon Baboon)
7mo
every year. Sure, those with the most advantages would have an edge to stay. But each year some teams are going down, and some teams are going up. Since the start of the Premier League in England in the early '90s, only six clubs (Arsenal, Chelsea, Everton, Liverpool, Manchester United, and Tottenham Hotspur) of the 20 slots available each year, have never been relegated. So that is a good bit of turnover.
If VT starts out in Tier 2 or even 3, and has to work its way up by actually having to win, I'm all for it. Merit and competition would be greater than ever in the sport.
(In response to this post by CMU Hokie)
7mo
The structure.would essentially add 3 lower tier championships. I’d still watch some SEC, but it would devalue non top tiers
(In response to this post by VT_Skier)
7mo
(In response to this post by HokieAl)
7mo
Make the Big East with the old eastern independents starting with Penn State. Would love VT being in a conference with PSU, Miami and West Virginia.
Would be awesome. Round Robin play required. No conference title games.
(In response to this post by crazylane)
7mo
Then those lower tier championships would actually mean something. Otherwise, in your proposal, they would feel like the NIT and CBI.
I know, it’ll never happen, but it would be perfect for college football.
(In response to this post by HokieAl)
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njhokie7
7mo
Too many teams in the playoffs but the overriding concept of multiple championships is interesting.
(In response to this post by HokieAl)
7mo
Highest ranked division winners with overall winning records. If a division winner has a .500 or worse record then their spot opens up for the next best available team.
The other option would be to have more play-in teams and fewer auto qualifiers. Both ways can get to a similar result of quality teams in playoff.
(In response to this post by njhokie7)
7mo
with the other 2 groups? The same could be said for the other 2 groups because you have basically created a FBS vs. FCS situation within FBS. If schools want to participate in 1 subdivision, then should be expected to compete for 1 MNC. Especially when all 10 FBS conferences and Notre Dame co-own the private organization that run the playoffs. If each group wants to do its own thing, then form either a new division or subdivision within DI and a new private organization to run their version of the playoffs.
(In response to this post by HokieAl)
7mo
And gives P2 teams the chance to gain experience and stats against “easier” competition. The other schools also benefit from the pay days and the tv exposure. There is no need to change anything about the regular season.
But playoffs are a separate beast and very heavily impacted by the differences in school budgets. The current model is a waste of everyone’s time, except for about 10 teams in the P2.
** Edited by HokieAl at 12/14/2025, 1:23:14 PM
(In response to this post by VTHokie2000)
7mo
FCS opponent? How do you think most fans feel when their team is playing a FCS opponent? I'm suggesting that's the mentality most fans will develop if each group has its own MNC. The subgroups may even pass bylaws limiting how many games a team can play from the group below them similar to how FBS teams limit the number of FCS opponents to 1 or 2 per season.
Then there is the money aspect of it. Will the other 2 groups make as much (or more) money than they are now in the current system? If not, then I doubt you will see the 2 groups agree to leave the CFP Administration, LLC to form their own association. If your solution is to allow the CFP Administration, LLC to award multiple national championships, then that means gaining enough support from the DII and DIII representatives to amend the overall bylaws so a sport can award multiple national championships in a single division level or in this case subdivision level.
(In response to this post by HokieAl)
7mo
1. Regarding schedules, FCS games are disappearing. It doesn’t help tv ratings and all schools are moving away from that.
But in general, this model would make every regular season game important. Because every game would impact potential tiebreakers and seeding for playoffs.
2. For money/legal aspect, I honestly don’t think it’s worth diving into at this point. If the big media and big money and power brokers want it to happen, then it will happen. That’s why I’m just focusing on the concept.
(In response to this post by VTHokie2000)
7mo
My point is it will only be a matter of time before the P2s develops the same view towards the ACC group and Sun Belt group as how the FCS are currently viewed. Likewise, the ACC group will develop a similar mindset towards the Sun Belt group. Even though the FCS plays for the NCAA DI National Championship in football, it isn't viewed in the same light as March Madness because enough people consider the FBS to be the "top tier." Heck there are enough people who mistakenly refer to the FCS as "DII" even though they are DI. The same mindset and behavior will develop once each group starts to do its own thing for the postseason.
Remember up until 1971, the NCAA didn't have any divisions. Likewise, DI didn't have subdivisions in football until 1978. As a result, the NCAA spent the early '80s reclassifying schools and conferences from DI-A to DI-AA. In some cases, the school or conference didn't go quietly in the night. I suspect your proposal would meet similar resist when a school and/or conference are not happy to learn they are reclassified into a "lower tier."
University of Cincinnati's Reclassification
https://www.upi.com/Archives/1983/01/14/The-NCAA-Friday-s...
NCAA Decision in 1982 to Reclassify Schools from DI-A to DI-AA in football
https://ncaanewsarchive.s3.amazonaws.com/1982/19820215.pdf
Link:
MAC Reclassification
(In response to this post by HokieAl)
7mo
Every other conference and school is already an afterthought for them and easily brushed aside for playoffs or tournaments (with the help of the media, especially ESPN).
I hear you on the concerns and the history. At the same time, the P2 has already been very active to separate themselves from all the other conferences. And the ACC , B12, PAC money gap and media exposure gap is very significant compared to the G5 conferences. The tiers already exist. I’m just looking at how we can generate new value from those tiers and benefit the non-P2.
(In response to this post by VTHokie2000)
7mo
eventually do their own thing. Once that happens, I am not sure there will be a gap between the other 2 groups. There may not really be a gap between some schools like Duke, Wake, BC, etc. within that group and the Gs because those schools made their "money" via basketball. They just happened to be at the "right place at the right time" when it came time to join a conference.
It doesn't really matter what you or I think. If the schools don't buy into it, then it will never get off the ground. I'm not just talking about the G schools, but DII and DIII as well because they will likely have to sign off on the bylaw change. Then it will become a question of what are the P2 and/or ESPN willing to give up in order to get what they want.
If the P2s do end up doing their own thing, then I do think the remaining FBS may decide to recombine with FCS. Schools may be forced to reduce their expenses because they see a reduction in revenue due to the networks decision to reallocate more money to the P2 League. You may even see conference networks go away or adopt the same model that is currently being used by the MWC, C-USA, and Sun Belt to free up additional resources that could be re-allocated to the P2 League.
(In response to this post by HokieAl)
7mo
Thoughts? Good? Bad? Insane?
(In response to this post by HokieAl)
7mo
(In response to this post by HokieAl)
7mo
(In response to this post by Atlee Hokie)