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jonnyhawk jonnyhawk OP
Aug 27, 2023 at 02:08 PM ET
Here is what happened to our Offensive line last season.........
The Link in this post is a nice video showing Joe Rudolph talking football. (See from 1:00:00) (Listen to the video, and watch the detail as each person on line has to recognize the play, recognize their responsibility, and think about foot placement of the left foot, right foot, hand placement, pull direction, and their objectives. These are the kids that could not keep themselves from committing off sides! ) I watched our offensive line ability dive early in the season from players that graded much higher the previous season. What ever "Version" of Offensive line Joe teaches, I think has a..... LARGE LEARNING CURVE. What this means, is that our Offensive line would be playing with their heads tying up their feet for almost the entire season. The result, terrible OL grades, slower offensive line, negative impact on running game, less time for plays to develop, lower confidence from QB, less time for our inexperienced receivers to get open, etc etc. I think last season, Joe Rudolph was teaching Chess to some guys that were ready for Checkers. Joe moving on and bringing in a guy like Ron Crook, who based on what I've heard so far, works with kids at the level they are at, (not where he want them to be some day) will pay HUGE dividends to this offense, that will be obvious in..... GAME 1. Not to say Ron won't add to the complexity of the OL game planning and tactics as we go along, but you have to crawl, before you walk, and Ron sounds like he is getting the kids to master crawling first. Bottom line, we should of had some advanced checker players last season, but instead, we had some beginner chess players, lost in a fog of details and constant thinking. I think the OL will be able to manage things in game 1, and by game 6, will resemble a cohesive group with confidence. By the end of season, they will be miles ahead of game 1, if we can get some luck from the injury gods. Looking forward to seeing the Hokie OL play down hill!! Go Hokies!! Coach 'em up PRYBOWCROOK ** Edited by jonnyhawk at 8/27/2023, 2:22:27 PM
Link: Chess

22 Replies

Riverguy Riverguy
Or, we just didn't have good players.
Fu simply did not recruit. At all.
TomTurkey TomTurkey
J.B. Grimes 1 recruited wrestlers for their KSA for footwork and leverage
...balance
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VTCALS72
So comparing Joe's 1st VT game to his 1st ND game
I think you are saying that basic chess is the minimum for a good OL. Our guys showed up for spring practice 2022 not ready for beginner chess and maybe not for 201 checkers. Whether they brought in a lack of development or a lack of a mental winning attitude, or just plain ability to be a basic chess player at the ACC level, we really can't say but it doesn't matter because they were not basic (yet) chess players. They showed it with all the procedure penalties in game 1 vs ODU. At ND, OTOH those guys met CJR with the right development, mindset and talent. And they destroyed Navy. But it also seems like you are saying that an OL unit can be good by being a good checker player playing chess. I don't believe that. The reason our OL was not good in 2022 was not on Joe Rudolph or his process, it was the players and what they had to be asked to do to try and make it look like they were ready to be basic ACC level chess players.
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marcbvtgm
What a bunch of nonsense trying to rationalize order out of disorder.
Almost of every returning OL regressed appreciably in 2022. Period. It wasn’t because of some narrative that they came into spring camp incapable of chess. Good grief. ** Edited by marcbvtgm at 8/28/2023, 9:47:51 AM
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VTCALS72
Yet the guy whom a whole segment of posters want to blame for all the VT
"disorder" suddenly has an dominant OL? To me that just shows that nearly all the CJR blame is not correct in what was going on.
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marcbvtgm
Talk about not knowing the difference between apples and orange
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BamBam
They played Navy. ND OL avg 313, Navy DL avg 268.
Can't give up 45 lbs and expect good results.
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Hokie1992
Exactly. The offense demanded playing chess and we had checkers
Even worse, we had an incomplete set of checkers. Let’s assume we have a set of chess pieces this fall. Now let’s see how good they are at playing chess. ** Edited by Hokie1992 at 8/28/2023, 7:44:42 AM
IB4TECH IB4TECH
I think Joe was too much for our players too. The regression of players
from the year before may support that. I just don't think Joe was the right fit for us. As for Joe at ND, were they more experienced in what he preached?
sacramento hokie sacramento hokie
You lost us at “ they destroyed Navy”
Look Rudolph left Wisky with a nice raise but had no intention of staying here..beating Navy is not much better than say VMI
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VTCALS72
But that is what a lot of you were saying about beating ODU
The difference is that ND actually had the players to make the coach look good against a team with way less talent. VT did not have the players to make the same coach look good against a team what should have had way less talent. But our talent did not meet the what VT should have.
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BuffaloTraceHokie
This goes against multiple sources, including the fine gentlemen
who run this site. I think that in this rare case ole JonnyHawk is right.
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VTCALS72
How so?
Seems the only pushback against what I said was that our 2022 OL had the ability to be a much better unit than they showed AND it was CJR who was holding them back. There is nothing out there to suggest that. Remember I am talking about a 5 person unit that had essentially no subs and players having to play out of position.
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BuffaloTraceHokie
To be clear...
I am not a "one liner" individual. Do a little research about who Joe Rudolph is. Understand his coaching techniques. Hell, listen to a few TSL podcasts where, in my opinion, Chris rightly assesses what happened. Even with the youth up front, the OL will be better this season without Rudolph. And that has nothing to do with Rudolph's pedigree so much as his style, technique and expectations.
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VTCALS72
I have. he was considered by many the A+ hire
And it is my guess that he will put out a very good product for ND for 2023. If he does, then the problem was not him.
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BuffaloTraceHokie
Ugh... did you even read my post?
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VTCALS72
Yes
It appeared to me to still trying to find a way to blame way more on the coaches and was less with what they had to work with in 2022. To me it was way less CJR coaching system and way more less than P5 ready players trying to play a P5 schedule. Not much Rudolph, Mines or anyone else could do but hunker down for the 2022 season.
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vtox1
There is a decent amount of evidence that a part of our OL's
Poor performance last year was because their minds were tying up their feet. Were not sure of technique what they were supposed to do which made them tentative. They also had way too many penalties which we usually blame on coach for not instilling discipline. Clements was not fully recovered from injury, which impacted his play. Jordan was undersized but that was true when he made 3rd team all big ten at MD. Overall talent was not great, so no matter who coached them last year VT OL was not going to be a strength. My guess is Vance Vice would have gotten better out of them. It was year one so perhaps any new coach with 2, meh talent 6 year guys an injured PC and Moore and Hanson would have struggled.
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VTCALS72
THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU
Finally a post that is not parroting one liners or using the "everybody knows" lines. You put some effort in this response and you pretty well nailed it. IMHO your best line is the "perhaps any new coach with 2 meh talent, 6 year guys, an injured PC and Moore and Hanson would have struggled." I fully agree and say that the OL is not as much about individual stats as much as it is a unit working together. But there was no other option to replace personnel. I disagree what you termed as "usually blame the coach for not installing discipline" applies in this specific case. I do so because of the other factors you pointed out. I don't believe discipline can be installed that quickly, especially in less than 1 year with a team that had both talent deficiencies and lingering internal culture issues. I think our team had more players ready to play in 2022 than we did in the last half of 2021 but the tumor of less than full buy in was still hanging around. It took the season to flush out the less than full buy in. My whole point, give the staff a full mulligan for trying to make something out of a mess. Now maybe some mulligans in specific places may be in order for 2023 but not another full mulligan. I also don't disagree that if VV had stayed AND we tried to run the CornFu system, the OL would have been better. Simply the amount of time under VV and that system would have made some difference. I think way to little weight has been giving to a brand new system with less than average "ready to play" level. And by "ready to play" I mean both physical talent and "head issues." I also agree that their minds were tying up their feet but it wasn't all the new "system." That is a full winning attitude, culture buy in and work ethic. That may not have infected all 5 but because it was there, it infected the unit IMHO. I don't think coaches had enough time to flush all that out in the spring or fall of 2022. Again, thanks, good stuff.
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marcbvtgm
I think your point is you’re moving the goal posts from chess to mulligans
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VTCALS72
Not at all the coaches get a mulligan
because they essentially had no healthy chess players and were filling in with checker players.
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The Big Cat
We all hope you are right & hope our OLine shows improvement. But ND’s
OLine where Rudolph is now was completely dominant @ Navy yesterday. Obviously, Rudolph is in his 1st year at ND like he was with us last season.