HokieKoch

Wish it was a better prediction.

Any “exit interview” will be done by the coach (head and/or positional). These interviews are the face to face conversations at the end of the year that go into subjects like playing time, fit for next year and in the future, further development and what a player needs to do, and of course money. The coaches could tell a player they no longer have a spot, or a player can take this information and decide to leave for any number of reasons. Players could just be unhappy with life at tech and want to move on regardless of any other factor. Or a player could have graduated and want to go get a masters at another school. I would hope these details are shared in the AD with those who can make college athletes experiences better, but much of these conversations will be too personal to be shared with fans. @TheFacts puts it succinctly, it’s mostly going to be about $$ and playing time. Most of these kids have 4 to 5 years to make as much money as possible while playing in college with no pro prospects. To do so they need to play early and often. It sucks for us fans, but I understand the desire to capitalize on this, and can’t fault any player for doing so.

I compare him to NAW, who I thought for sure was one and done when we got him. NAW had clear potential his freshman year, but also had improvements to make in his game. He could have gone pro and been a late first early second round pick after his freshman year. Neo is similar in this aspect. So I wonder if there are any rumblings of his return.

He has simply had injury after injury. So he keeps getting medical redshirts. It’s not like recouping JUCO years or going pro early and trying to come back. This type of situation is rare. We had a 7th year DL a few ago for the same reasons.

I thought, this doesn’t add up to how they selected Baylor. A pure guess, but there is probably some sort of application process and the committee selects the best applicant based on some set of criteria they have.

Dorian Finney-Smith also inked a pretty good deal 4yr/52mil. Not sure how folks feel about him on these boards, but he was once a Hokie, so I was happy to see it.

I think this will help some on the board wrap their heads and what is more realistic. The numbers you mention are more in the ballpark of what I have been estimating for schools to try and estimate realistic values for players.

My only question is what are these schools budgets like? If they are 10M, it’s unlikely a player like Rice gets 3M, it’s probably closer to 1.5M. If it’s 15M or 20M, then I could see it at 3M. I think it’d be easier for people to wrap their head around a hard number. My estimate is that schools like USC probably have a 10M budget for MBB between NIL and Rev sharing, while schools like VT will be around 6M.

Are you indicating that at these times coaches can make small in game adjustments? One way I look at coaches having an impact in game is by making small adjustments to either exploit a weakness on the opposing team or stop one of their team’s weaknesses from being exploited. I feel like these happen throughout the game by changing personnel, play calls, or changing the pace of the game. In your experience is that accurate? TIA

But I was just thinking of how many great pitchers we have had and was curious on two things 1. How would people rank the three I know, Tincher, Rochard and Lemley. That is my order but Lemley may take Rochard after this season. 2. Does VT have a more extensive history of All-American caliber pitchers? Let’s Go!!

x y & z 😜

And a few redshirts juniors. Something seems off here even though it’s coming from the official account.

I thought he had quick feet and good court vision. He relies on a spin move often, so I think he needs to add to his post move repertoire. It looked like in the highlights he was just a man amongst boys often. Will be interesting to see how he fairs against competition that is better. I am curious what others think myself, I posted a question on the recruitment board hoping for some analysis there on the two signees.

I kept up with Brown and Finney-Smith after they left. Wishing they had stayed. Looking at them now, here is what I found: Brown had a decent career at UAB Rankin did well at Queens Finney-Smith had a good career at Florida and is still in the NBA Barksdale enjoyed some success professionally overseas. Any idea why they couldn’t make it work at VT? Rankin probably wasn’t an ACC talent in the end, but I thought the other three were.

I was not into recruiting as much back then. It was my first senior year, so I had other things on my mind. I looked at the roster and made some assumptions. It was still a fun exercise for me, and has helped educate me on what happened back then. I think looking at the link CC gave and comparing Curry to Appleton-Miller, one could draw a similar conclusions. Man what a class that was also. Too bad only 1 player made a meaningful impact.

Now to convince my wife that VT softball is more important than one day of elementary school…

I just meant that it will bother some people for a while that we did not offer him. So haunting us, the fan base, not the program. And this is not meant to be inclusive of the whole fan base, I know it came across that way. Should have written "some VT fans" above. For me, this was just fun to do a bit of research to compare two recruits at the time and try to take a less biased and hindsight view and take a more analytical approach to the topic. In a previous post below I suggest the same thing you write above. Curry is who he is because of his journey. That I truly believe, even if I did wish he donned the Orange and Maroon. We are all who we are, because of the path we have taken. ** Edited by HokieKoch at 8/13/2024, 1:55:48 PM

It all pointed to the same information though. Munson > Curry from a ranking perspective back then.

So I decided to do a bit of research and compare Stephen Curry to Nigel Munson as a recruit. Nigel Munson was the point guard recruit we offered and took the same year we reneged on the Stephen Curry offer. Essentially, from what I can tell, after our top PG candidate failed to qualify, we choose Munson over Curry. (UPDATE thanks @Chris Coleman) I looked at 247, Rivals and Recruiting Service Consensus Index (RSCI) for this. Munson's other offers I have found were Xavier, George Washington and George Mason, compared to Stephen Curry's Davidson, High Point, VCU and William and Marry (247/Rivals does say VT, but we know this was reneged). 247 lists Munson as a composite 4 star from Dematha with a 0.9349 score and the #129 player nationally, and #25 PG, (UPDATE) Rivals has him as a 3-Star and #109 overall and #22 PG and the RSCI has him as the #70 overall player. Note the top 100 players on rivals were 4-star recruits, so Munson just missed this distinction. While 247 has Curry as a composite 3 star a with a 0.8556 score and #147 player nationally and #32 PG, (UPDATE) Rivals has him unranked and a 3-star PG and the RSCI only lists the top 100, so he is not on there. The 247 scores for Curry don't match his national rankings in my mind (which is higher than I expected). Nigel is listed at 6-1 170, Curry as 6-2 165 Based on the rankings, Nigel was the better candidate. Nigel also had offers to what I would consider at the time some higher mid-major programs, while Curry was more mid mid-major programs. Neither were pursued by major programs. Size wise they are nearly identical. Curry is a bit skinnier, but not by much. Looking at these two in a bubble, not looking at legacy status or not knowing what we know now about Curry, who do you choose? I feel like more fans would choose Munson, he was much higher regarded by multiple sites. However, if we add the fact that Curry is a legacy back into the equation, I think some fans would choose Curry. SG did not look at this from a legacy stand point, obviously, and he decided he should only take one PG, so he went with Munson. It really wasn't a bad decision at the time, but it is one that will haunt (update) some VT fans for a long time. UPDATED everything above for some additional research I did based on CC's comment below. This additional research did not change my last paragraph much. If anything the additional research solidified that Munson was the higher rated recruit. ** Edited by HokieKoch at 8/13/2024, 1:38:24 PM ** Edited by HokieKoch at 8/13/2024, 1:56:47 PM

I did want to offer him a scholarship at the time. I am a great fan of legacies at VT, even in basketball with the limited roster sizes. I think we even had an available scholarship for him. Looking at the 13 man roster I found on-line, I am pretty sure Chris Tucker was a walk-on. So I think we had a scholarship available that went unused. I was just trying to provide some reasoning on why SG didn't offer. As I mentioned, nothing I wrote invalidates the arguments to offer him a scholarship. There are (and were at the time) well reasoned arguments to offer and well reasoned arguments not to offer.

However there are a few things to consider. Steph is who he is because of his journey. The coaches he had, the teammates he had, the teams he played on, the chip on his shoulder after being continually told in HS, then in college, that he was too skinny to make it to the next level. All that helped him become the player he is today. Perhaps coming to VT he would have been a star, but perhaps not. Would he have started as a freshman over Seniors Dowdell and Gordon? Let me answer that for you, no. Would he have developed enough as a freshman with limited playing time to be better than Delaney, a freshman for us the next year? Probably, he could have been a great option to go with Vassallo. But already his trajectory to stardom is different and then we likely lose out on Delaney. Hindsight is great to have, but you can’t blame SG for sleeping on him. Everyone else did too. Would offering him a scholarship over Munson or Witcher been advantageous at the time? Perhaps, but the concerns about Curry out of HS were valid, major programs were not offering him for the same reasons we were not. We also had very limited open scholarships available. There were only two freshman on scholarship that year. Just some food for thought I have had on this subject, that does not invalidate any arguments to have given a scholarship to Curry, but may shed more light on why we didn’t.

I did not know how that worked. Listed to the podcast on my way home from work today too. CC did a good job discussing his future at VT and how his draft eligibility works too.

I did a quick search and found he should be able to play baseball in spring of 2025, so he should get at least one season at VT. Wonder if that shores up our outfield for next season?

Can he play on the baseball team? As for expectations, I think a lot of people are taking a cautious approach with their excitement. A lot can happen between now and the start of the 2026 baseball season, if that is the earliest he can play. More excitement is on the football boards, but there is still a sense of subdued joy, IMO.

Go Hokies!

But this often seems the case for guards trying to make it in the NBA. There are so many options for teams to pick and choose from. It’s hard for me to understand why some kids get a shot over others, especially when sometimes those that don’t get their shot appear to be better players with better resumes.

Tie break #1 is head to head, so UVA should be #4. It is likely these standings on the website are not indicative of seeding and are sorted by overall conference record followed by overall record.

5 highest ranked conference champs are in. So unless 2 G5 conference champions, plus the other P4 champs finish above the ACC champ in the rankings, the ACC will get a spot. So it’s plausible the ACC gets left out, but fairly unlikely.

growing up in Charlottesville, with a mom who is an alumnus of UVA, I tend to root for UVA when they are not playing tech. The good news is my mom does the same, I don’t think she has worn UVA gear in 20 years, but certainly sports the Hokie gear frequently!

We seemed to play 4 quarters of good football. Regardless of competition level, this is not something I have seen from VT in a long time, not even against bad teams. I, sadly, was waiting for us to have that bad quarter, but it never came. Yes we had a few bad individual plays, but overall it was 4 good quarters of football. Let’s GO!

Can we expect to see this type of game plan moving forward? I really hope so, this seems promising even against a Pitt team that is performing below expectations.

Wanted to pass it along

I was hoping there would be more data out there. In football I feel like I know who our true top targets are and if we are a true finalist for a recruit, but I don’t have the same grasp in basketball.

I am mainly looking at sites like On3 and Busting Brackets for VT Men’s basketball recruiting news, and I don’t pay for subscriptions to these services. Is there a good free site with better insight to where these recruits are going before they commit? If Tech is in someone’s top 10, I have no clue if that means they have a legit shot or not. Normally recruits release a top X, but it’s really down to 2 or 3 schools. Just looking for more insight if we are in the top 2 or 3 for these guys. I keep getting my hopes up just to see TCU, Miami and Creighton get the last few commitments. Thanks in advanced for any thoughts here.

If we are 1-7 and our Offense and D-Line show no improvement I could see both Bowen and Price getting fired at the end of the year. Price was not Pry’s guy, and if we keep seeing regression with his unit, he may not last after the season. Bowen is Pry’s guy, but he can’t wait as long as Fuente (which was never) to make a change here and he knows it. It sucks with all the injuries, but I don’t think that excuse will save everyone’s job by year end if we show no improvement on the field. Updated to say Not to say a change can’t happen earlier, this new age of the business sees firing much sooner than ever before. I just don’t think it happens before the end of the year. ** Edited by HokieKoch at 9/20/2023, 10:01:21 PM

I did not look at it from that aspect.

Is there any possibility that we add or lose any Olympic sports in the near future? I worry the impact of costs on some sports due to realignment might cause a greater burden than initially anticipated. My fear is this results in a loss of a non-revenue generating sport. My hope is the exact opposite and we add something like Men’s Lacrosse. ** Edited by HokieKoch at 9/18/2023, 7:01:49 PM ** Edited by HokieKoch at 9/18/2023, 7:02:37 PM ** Edited by HokieKoch at 9/18/2023, 8:37:59 PM

I agree with you on this. It’s not all on Bowen that out O-Line is so bad right now. It’s not his fault at all we lost our top 2 receivers to injuries. It is his fault our offense is not very creative, though talent may also play a roll here. So, how long does he get a pass before we determine he is a problem? Most can agree, Fuente was loyal to a fault and needed to make staff changes to improve the team, but never did. I don’t want to see Pry make the same mistake. So when does the play on the field out weigh the recruiting? Would Bowen’s recruiting be missed if we keep Mines and some other assistants? With Crook being new, do we have to wait until the end of year 3 before making changes, if necessary? In my mind, we must see improvements by the end of this year, not just with the eye test, but in the box score too. If we don’t see this by the end of the year, Pry should consider a change at OC, but any change should keep our other top recruiters, like Mines. I am curious what other feel here, how long of a leash does Bowen have?

I know SMU gets nothing for 9 years, Cal and Stanford will take 30% of their share for now and there is 55M extra in the pool now. However, I don’t know the following: 1. Will Stanford and Cal take 30% for 9 years also? 2. What revenue does ND get from the deal? 3. Does ND already get a full share of revenue from the current ACC deal? 3. Is 55 million enough to cover travel costs for all teams now having to travel coast to coast regularly? That is roughly 3.5M extra for the 15 current schools, 1M for Cal and Stanford. 4. I don’t feel like doing the math, is there a link to what payouts each school gets now until the GOR expires? Thanks in advanced for any responses.

I heard this too but don’t know to what extent he actually had in the hiring process. This type of initiative can be great if executed properly, especially from a recruiting standpoint. Shows kids this is a family environment, we want to take care of you after your playing days and that alumni want to stay and be apart of the program. You can’t however only look at alumni and internal hires. You still have to go through a proper hiring process and hire the best candidate. I don’t think we always did that. But to my original post this is something Babcock may have started with good intentions but poor execution. I also think they have improved upon this initiative since then. We hire alumni now at smaller roles and let them work their way up. Not every plan works out right away. A good leader will recognize faults in a plan and iterate to improve, or pivot. Babcock typically does this well.

The tenure with Fu was bad at all levels including Babcock, and I understand why people want to move on from him because of this. He most certainly was not blameless here. However what he has done for basically every other sport has been great. Plus once he understood the deficit between VT and other schools financially were having a major impact in our competitiveness in football, he changed his and the schools long time strategy and started to invest heavily in football (staff and facilities). By the looks of it, the football program is on the right path. Admittedly we are still behind, but we have made great strides and have caught up and surpassed many P5 schools from a financial, staff and facility standpoint. Another point still not fully discussed in the ESPN article is our overall finances. We will never catch up with the top schools. Our fan base simply does not support our school that way. Not saying we don’t have any doners, plenty donate and donate big, but it still doesn’t match that of the top schools. We will always be behind in this regard. All that being said, I am energized after this offseason and have faith in Pry and renewed faith in Babcock.

and I don’t care if we split up, but I do want to see both schools in the P2/BIG12. When VT was in the Big East we played UVA every year from what I remember. We left for the ACC and lost the WVU game, which was a massive bummer to me. I always wondered why we couldn’t keep the WVU rivalry game as an OOC game, since we did just that with UVA. So this go round, since I think a split is likely, let’s keep the rivalry alive. Makes for better family get togethers in my house.

We all understand FSU and CU are the clear top 2 ACC schools. I can understand UNC and UM since their national brands carry more weight than VT, and this is all about viewership which means money. But I have been struggling to understand why VT isn’t a clear #5 on the list. I understand my bias of course, but we are on par with NCST pretty much across the board (athletics, academics and fan base). I don’t know how NCST compares in this category, but VT is showing the desire and willingness to spend big to compete in football and other sports, if NCST isn’t we should have the leg up in my mind. UVA has the academic pedigree and the non-football sports are typically better than ours (but we are closing the gap in most sports). So I see the appeal. But this is clearly about money, and our fan base travels better and is much larger, so there is going to be more viewers. I grew up in Charlottesville, the son of an UVA grad, and my family was a season ticket holder to UVA games for years. My first game to Tech, I was blown away as I watched our fans base cheer on VT against JMU. So I do have some knowledge here when comparing these fan bases. All that being said, I think people put UVA ahead of VT but both the SEC and B1G want a VA and NC school. So even if we are 7th on these lists we are likely more of a realistic 5a/b with NCST.