Going to give an early congrats to ND alum/fans. They do need to improve
the Strength of Scheduling component IMHO, but ND masterfully negotiated the Playoff rules so they can get in without playing an SEC or B1G schedule, and that’s on them, not you.
Again congratulations!!
103 Replies
1y
All OSU, PSU, Indiana and Michigan play are each other, and a bad Big 10 below them, to get ranked. When they tip toe out of that cozy arrangement, like with Texas and Oregon (the only reason they played Oregon was realignment), they lose.
(In response to this post by Stech)
1y
is basically the ACC with a push-up bra and high heels.
(In response to this post by WestyHokie)
1y
(In response to this post by HokiesACC2004)
1y
The middle to the bottom of the Big Ten looks like the rest of the conferences, for the most part. A bunch of OK teams.
** Edited by reestuart at 12/3/2024, 12:43:20 PM
(In response to this post by HokiesACC2004)
1y
after the B1G Championship game, it’s not close to being better by that or by the SOS either.
(In response to this post by WestyHokie)
1y
I don't like Notre Dame and I root against them, but I don't see the point of this argument:
1. They are ranked NUMBER ONE in sagarin ratings based on their overall performance.
2. They won't be getting a bye, so they have to win an EXTRA game.
3. Their strength of schedule is comparable to Oregon, Tennessee, SMU, Indiana, Clemson and Miami
4. They beat Texas A&M and Louisville.
5. FSU killed ND's strength of schedule single handedly.
6. Are there any really great teams in college football this year? There are going to be a bunch of 3 loss teams getting in.
(In response to this post by Stech)
T
Truthahn
1y
Not that I have an issue with ND's SOS. It seems fine to me, and they deserve a CFP slot, even with FSU tanking.
** Edited by Truthahn at 12/2/2024, 12:03:41 PM
(In response to this post by jesuisvtguy)
1y
forward, ND played 8 in the P4, while the B1G top 2, PSU will play 11 & Oregon 10, after the B1G Championship game.
I just want to see the selection criteria more equitable in the future so those not in the P2 like Notre Dame play a more equitable schedule in the future.
PS I have Irish Catholic heritage, and started pulling for Notre Dame when I was kid, and if they want to stay independent it’s their choice, but they should not get favoritism for it. That’s a logical and cognitive argument top to bottom.
(In response to this post by jesuisvtguy)
there's only one great team this year, the Ducks. That's it imho
(In response to this post by jesuisvtguy)
1y
put ND on their schedule if they want respect.
(In response to this post by MrBayAreaHokie)
So true that there isn't a great team this season....
Syracuse is better than #12 Miami IMHO and GA Tech had numerous oportunities to beat Georgia. Bama lost to Vanderbilt. Pitt started off 7-0 and lost their last 5. Except for the Clemson game, Tech had a chance to win every game this season but ended up a mediocre 6-6. Ohio State lost at home to Michigan. Illinois and Indiana are having very good years but I don't think they would have more wins if they played this season as a member of the ACC or Big 12. Notre Dame at 11-1 deserves one of the 12 playoff spots.
** Edited by Old Line Hokie at 12/1/2024, 2:07:33 PM
(In response to this post by jesuisvtguy)
1y
left out of 12+ team playoff? The only teams that go 11-1 and get left out of the CFP are either G5 or an ACC/B12 team that lost its championship game. Other than that, they're in, without question.
Do you think it's unfair that ND is included in the field? I'm not sure where you're coming from with all this.
(In response to this post by Stech)
1y
(In response to this post by Baltimore_Hokie)
1y
It's ultimately a numbers game. There are just going to be way too many 2- and 3-loss SEC and B1G teams that HAVE to be in to justify all the money Disney and FOX are paying them (i.e., double what they're paying the ACC and B12.)
You can already tune in and see the usual suspects on ESPN laying the groundwork for multiple 3-loss SEC teams in the CFP field this year.
** Edited by Baltimore_Hokie at 12/2/2024, 12:52:25 PM
(In response to this post by wwhokie1)
1y
is completely separated from the conference media deals. ESPN will want ratings, and upsets bring ratings. I think you have come to your conclusions prematurely. Lets see what happens.
(In response to this post by Baltimore_Hokie)
1y
(In alphabetical order, not by ranking/seed)
Alabama
Arizona State
Boise State
Clemson (maybe SMU, it's a 50/50 split in my mind)
Georgia
Indiana
Notre Dame
Ohio State
Oregon
Penn State
Tennessee
Texas
There's your final 12 team CFP list. I'm not sure how/why you'd think this is going to be some kind of shocker.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
1y
Georgia if they lose to Texas, then I don't see how they don't include SMU.
(In response to this post by Baltimore_Hokie)
1y
the CFP field is to beat Clemson and win the ACC. They will 100% put a 3 loss Alabama, Ole Miss, South Carolina, or Missouri in over a 2 loss SMU. There's no debate.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
S
SMU Pony
1y
(In response to this post by Baltimore_Hokie)
1y
Your hoydenish little posts, which I'm sure you write while cackling like a little girl, aren't changing anything about SMU and its future.
(In response to this post by SMU Pony)
S
SMU Pony
1y
...you have no reason to hate SMU. Fans of Texas schools, sure, they either remember the 80s or hate SMU because of its snobby fans. But a VT fan from Baltimore has no reason to hate SMU, and yet you froth at the mouth every time we're mentioned. I can't imagine why, it makes no sense, but like I've said before, please keep it up. Hate us or love us, you'll be watching us.
(In response to this post by Baltimore_Hokie)
1y
by far the least viewed CFP game of the opening round. Surprise, surprise, the tiny little G5 team of paid mercenaries embarrassed the ACC in a game that generated much lower viewership numbers than the others in the opening round. Who could have guessed?
I really hope you enjoyed it after talking all your BS about how great SMU is, because I'm sure that box score and viewership will get brought up every single time the talking heads debate whether or not the ACC should get two teams in from now on.
** Edited by Baltimore_Hokie at 12/23/2024, 10:35:16 AM
(In response to this post by SMU Pony)
S
SMU Pony
1y
...and when VT makes the CFP, I'll definitely be watching. And pulling for the Hokies
(In response to this post by Baltimore_Hokie)
1y
The only exception is if they're playing football vs. VT, which, sadly, because the ACC commissioner is a flop sweating idiot that can't tie his own shoes, will likely happen at least once. Nobody cares about SMU. You're muted now; find someone else's shirt tail to pull on and beg to talk about SMU.
(In response to this post by SMU Pony)
1y
(In response to this post by Baltimore_Hokie)
1y
they will put Miami in before they put SMU in, and that's not going to happen.
There is only one spot in my former list that could go to another ACC team instead - Indiana's. The CFP committee is not going to put a 2 loss ACC team in over a 1 loss B10 team, neither or which made the conference championship game. This is even more certain when the 1 loss B10 team didn't make the championship because of a tie breaker vs. a worse record in-conference.
EDITED - For some reason, I thought Indiana was playing Oregon in the B10CG instead of Penn State. My bad.
** Edited by Baltimore_Hokie at 12/2/2024, 4:18:37 PM
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
T
Truthahn
1y
Smu will drop out if they lose. Miami is already out.
(In response to this post by Baltimore_Hokie)
1y
about the CFP, and have been from the jump. The CFP expanded to benefit the SEC and B10 only, not the ACC, not the B12, and certainly not the G5.
(In response to this post by Truthahn)
1y
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
1y
I didn't, because it was SMU that got the spot, but I guess that's better than another spot to the SEC.
(In response to this post by Baltimore_Hokie)
1y
(In response to this post by Baltimore_Hokie)
1y
Indiana's only loss is to Ohio State.
(In response to this post by VTHokie2000)
1y
because I think you're going to have to eat a great deal of it when the CFP field is set. I'm not sure how/why you continue to harbor this fantasy that the CFP committee is going to place a 3 loss Big 12 champ game loser over, say, 2 loss Tennessee, or a 3 loss Alabama, Ole Miss, or South Carolina. The same thing goes for a 2 loss SMU or a 2 loss Miami that couldn't even win its own conference.
I will never understand what on planet Earth you are smoking with that take. On December 8, you're going to discover what anyone that has eyes, ears, and critical thinking skills already knows: the CFP field will consist of 1 ACC team, 1 B12 team, 1 G5, Notre Dame, and the rest of the field will be SEC and B10 teams.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
1y
(In response to this post by Baltimore_Hokie)
1y
or a lesser known program makes the Final Four vs. blue bloods or other well known programs make it? If blue bloods/well known programs generate higher ratings, then it is possible the same trend exists in the FBS Playoffs.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
1y
we have our answer. However, access to the playoffs to avoid anti trust issues necessitates that all of FBS be included. The question will be if token representation is enough or not.
Then you have the issues of performance on the field. Will the 2 and 3 loss SEC teams blow away the G6, ACC, and B12? Maybe, but they will have to play the game, and the results will speak for themselves.
(In response to this post by VTHokie2000)
1y
what the casual football fan or even the non-football fan want to watch. A reason they may be more likely to tune in to watch the blue bloods is because they have heard their names enough to the point they are easily recognizable. Likewise, they may not know that Iowa State and SMU have a good/great football team this year because they don't watch any regular season football games and/or pay attention to the sports news for whatever reason. Now if Iowa State and SMU can maintain this same level for the next 5-7 years, then they may get to a similar level as Gonzaga in men's basketball.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
1y
be playing those blue bloods in the expanded playoffs. First time in history that a b12 or ACC champion gets a chance at the national championship by winning their conference.
(In response to this post by VTHokie2000)
1y
2014 - FSU
2015 - Clemson
2016 - Clemson
2017 - Clemson
2018 - Clemson
2019 - Clemson
2020 - Clemson
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
1y
find a similar result.
(In response to this post by VTHokie2000)
1y
"First time in history that a b12 or ACC champion gets a chance at the national championship by winning their conference."
I was merely replying that this season wouldn't be the "first time in history" where the ACC champion got to participate in the FBS Playoffs. You are correct it wouldn't be the first time for the Big XII either.
2015 - Oklahoma
2017 - Oklahoma
2018 - Oklahoma
2019 - Oklahoma
2023 - Texas
FWIW TCU is the only non-conference champion from the Big XII to compete in the FBS Playoffs in 2022. So I am not sure what you intended the quoted statement to mean when you made it.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
1y
Playoffs is worded to say the "top 5 ranked conference champions will receive an automatic bid" (or something to that effect) is because there are 9 FBS conferences eligible to participate in the FBS Playoffs and the wording can't identify specific FBS conferences without violating antitrust laws.
I'm not including the Pac-12 because it won't be eligible to compete again until 2026 and they will only get to compete in 1 playoffs before the new contract is in place in 2027. Don't be surprised if the new contract is worded to say 12 (or 16) at-large bids similar to how things were in the 4-team playoffs.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
1y
a mile away, because that's what the Big 10, and even more so the SEC, want. Every bit of tradition and regionality is being squeezed out of college football - the P2 conferences now exist for little more than the convenience of massive TV rights package deals. Case in point - nobody cares if Barca wins LaLiga anymore, the only thing that moves the needle for Barca now is a deep run in the Champions League or winning the European Cup. It's going to be the same story from now on, for, say, an Alabama, especially if (when) they move to 16 teams. Oh, Alabama, you won the SEC this year? Well, guess what, who cares, there are five other SEC teams in this year's 16-team CFP field and if you don't win that, then winning the SEC was basically a big wet fart into the wind. Going forward, people will care who won the SEC or B10 football championship about as much as they care who won the SEC or B10 basketball tournament, which is to say not at all.
For the rest of the conferences, winning the league will still matter because programs will have to build a resume to get a spot vs. everyone just assuming you're good even when you lose like SEC and B10 programs, but, especially in the ACC and B12, administrators won't want to stage conference championship games that do little more than provide their best programs with another chance to lose a game and deal with even more incessant denigration from the ESPN talking heads trying to advocate for another SEC team into the CFP field. Because, as we all know, when ACC teams lose to other ACC teams, that means they're terrible, because ACC teams are all trash, but when SEC teams lose to other SEC teams, that's just a quality loss to another amazing SEC squad, and you can't penalize them for it.
So, it's not going to surprise me when, with a move to 16 teams in a playoff, they just get rid of the conference championship games. The coaches and players don't want to play in them, the broadcasters would rather have more playoff games instead, and for the upper tier programs, they don't even matter anymore - sometimes it's even better to NOT play in the league championship game (e.g., Oregon and Penn State were both CFP locks either way, and one-loss Indiana gets to stay idle this weekend vs. potentially losing another game.)
(In response to this post by VTHokie2000)
1y
I get into detail how below, so please read that if you want detail how the top 8 in the P4 end up playing at least 10. In the meantime they didn’t play the top 3 in the ACC.
All I am saying is they need to make the selection criteria better so ND that can pretty much schedule anybody they want to, plays 10 P4 teams every year in the regular season. I also think there should be a strong reward for top 25 wins and a strong penalty for losing to teams outside of the top 25.
This is not ND’s fault, the P2 in particular are mainly at fault.
** Edited by Stech at 12/1/2024, 2:00:38 PM
(In response to this post by Baltimore_Hokie)
T
TerryD
1y
He had an unrealistic fantasy that ND was going to join the ACC for football and bring WVU with it.
When that total non-starter fantasy became an irrefutable reality even to him, it turned him bitter against ND.
Since then, he posts many anti-ND threads, which is his right, but which is also very transparent, biased and non-objective.
** Edited by TerryD at 12/1/2024, 1:53:25 PM
(In response to this post by Baltimore_Hokie)
1y
(In response to this post by TerryD)
1y
We played a ACC equivalent schedule. So, when are you going to start *****ing about that?
** Edited by goldendomer at 12/1/2024, 10:55:56 AM
(In response to this post by Stech)
1y
while the top 8 in the P4 usually play 10-11. It diverts from the fact you didn’t play the 3 top ACC teams too.
I do see why you want me to stop bringing up these facts, but I understand also why you don’t play as many P4 teams, with the current system for selection ND helped negotiate, it’s better for you than being in a P2.
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
1y
I am just pointing out a fact.
(In response to this post by Stech)
T
TerryD
1y
Best to leave him be.
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
1y
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
1y
A meltdown... I would assume.many people would agree on appearance of meltdown.
(In response to this post by Stech)
1y
emotional. ND deserves based on the current rules to be in the playoff, that’s why I started it with “congratulations!”
That said, the rules for selection need to be improved, top 25 wins should matter more, out of the top 25 losses should matter more too. The Conference Championship games need to be dropped, and we need to go to 16 instead of 12 with no byes. Do you disagree with any of that? If so, why? Because that’s the main point of my post. That and ND runs circles around the SEC and B1G in negotiating, which I would think you would see as a compliment.
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
1y
you do not deserve this because I said so!!!!!!
Carry on man.. This is you playground and hope it helps you feel better.
(In response to this post by Stech)
1y
meant to discuss the potential new selection rules for the future.
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
1y
Champion deserves to be in the playoffs, don't you think? If there was no championship game, it is very likely that the ACC Champion would be left out of the playoffs, kinda like FSU last year.
Steth, before you complain about the rules, and SOS of another school, maybe the ACC should get their stuff together first. BYU has two losses, and beat SMU - but they have no pathway to get into the expanded playoffs. ND has NOTHING to do with their position in the polls.
(In response to this post by Stech)
1y
future. You are mixing the two together in your question, and I am not lobbying for the ACC or against ND, they should be in this year based on the current rules. However, the selection criteria can and should be improved for the future.
I want top 25 wins to matter more, and top 25 losses to matter more too. I am also for dropping the Conference Championship games and going to 16 instead of 12 with no byes. That’s what this post is about, but some want to make about ND not getting invited this year, I congratulated them, so that’s off the table. However, I think we need to continue to improve the selection rules like I just mentioned.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
1y
on the field, not in the subjective polls.
(In response to this post by Stech)
1y
they decide to stick with that.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
1y
OOC records are not included. In a 16 team playoff, I'd be OK with the top 3 or 4 SEC teams getting an auto, 2 each for the B12, and ACC, and two for the independents and G6. That leaves 2 at large invites, the rest are determined on the field.
(In response to this post by Stech)
1y
rewarded for it. The regular football becomes more like basketball. I love Kanas and Duke playing, Arizona and Kentucky, North Carolina and Michigan State in the regular season. I want to see more of that in tier 1 College Football. Then the rankings have been more determined by the play on the field or the play on the court in basketball.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
1y
year than in years past. When you have 9 teams in the B12 as an example, with a pathway to the conference championship (top 2 teams) entering the last week, almost every B12 game had significance. It was the same for the SEC this year. If they only count conference records to determine the top teams in each conference, there will be more Clemson SC matchups moving forward, not less. That would be good for ratings, as there is no reason to pad regular season wins like the blue bloods have done since the beginning of time.
(In response to this post by Stech)
1y
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
T
TerryD
1y
With conferences so large some members don't play other members or the same schedule, is it really that objective of a measuring stick ?
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
1y
Probably best to ignore him.
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
1y
with me, you’re correct, is beyond hope, and not right. Your post and actions on this board are usually better than that, but I won’t be bullied to shut up because you disagree with me. Are you okay with me trying to shut you down because I disagree with you on something? If so, I will keep that in mind for future post from you. I doubt Will, will like it, but I will keep that in mind for your post I disagree with in the future.
(In response to this post by VT ChemE 1986)
1y
The ND-ACC schedules were set out to 2037 a few years ago. That's the ACC. ND doesn't control it. They just need these teams to be better.
(In response to this post by Stech)
1y
it easier, and that should not rewarded going forward.
They should be playing more P4 teams at a minimum.
(In response to this post by reestuart)
1y
Cope harder.
** Edited by goldendomer at 12/1/2024, 1:46:28 PM
(In response to this post by Stech)
1y
(In response to this post by goldendomer)
O
ombandit
1y
and btw, I have no problem with ND.
(In response to this post by reestuart)
1y
Clemson didn’t beat a single ACC school with a winning conference record. They lost to the 3 best teams they played. If SMU wins the ACC, they are deserving, but not more than ND is.
(In response to this post by ombandit)
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TerryD
1y
How dare they!
Does the ACC deserve a playoff bid with those schedules?
What is the difference, then, between the ACC rep and ND ?
Lets look at SMU's schedule, for instance:
Nevada
Houston Christian
BYU
TCU
Florida State
Louisville
Stanford
Duke
Pittsburgh
Boston College
Virginia
California
Houston Christian ?
Is that a real school?
Common opponents ND/SMU:
FSU
Louisville
Stanford
Virginia
To be consistent, shouldn't you be condemning SMU's SOS as well?
Why aren't you ?
** Edited by TerryD at 12/1/2024, 9:46:12 AM
(In response to this post by Stech)
1y
The best ACC team Clemson played was VT at 4-4. The only good teams on their schedule (UGA, UL, & South Carolina) beat them. Every one of them.
(In response to this post by TerryD)
1y
(In response to this post by Stech)
1y
disadvantage for them. I think there's a really good chance it happens to them this season.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
1y
IIRC, and Miami had to push it back. Nobody knew SMU would have the record they have. They played Clemson 3 of the past 4 seasons coming into this year, so they were out of the rotation. Nobody knew FSU would be this bad. GT and UL both were 5-3 in conference, so that's pretty good. They also had aTm and USC. It wasn't ND's fault all of these teams disappointed.
(In response to this post by Stech)
1y
to be more equivalent to what the top 8 P4 teams play. Yes they control that.
(In response to this post by reestuart)
1y
plus 4 P4 and Boise State. I do agree that it should be level, but the SEC is only playing 8 conference games, along with the ACC. Big XII and Big Ten are playing 9. All should be equal.
(In response to this post by Stech)
1y
(In response to this post by reestuart)
T
TerryD
1y
ND doesn't have a problem. It is in the playoffs and will host a first round game.
ND is not complaining or making multiple threads about this "problem".
It is only you, tilting at windmills.
(In response to this post by Stech)
1y
the SEC and B1G will end up playing 10-11 P4 teams? You have 1 top 25 win and 1 out of 25 at home loss. You didn’t have to play the top 3 in the ACC, you should be thrilled. You have out negotiated the SEC and B1G again. You should be bragging about it, but not everyone agrees it’s the best way forward for college football, but it is what’s best for Notre Dame to not change it, we agree on that.
That said, under the current rules, ND earned their way in, as I started the original post “congratulations!”
Finally, I want to see top 25 wins matter more, and out of top 25 losses matter more. I want the Conference Championship games dropped and we go to 16 teams with no byes. That’s what this posting was about, how do you feel about that?
(In response to this post by TerryD)
T
TerryD
1y
Thread after thread......your opinion is not going to change anything.
You literally just said it was ND's problem, then you move the goalposts again.
** Edited by TerryD at 12/2/2024, 12:27:34 PM
(In response to this post by Stech)
1y
not to keep shutting down discussions with insults because you don’t agree with them. Your post are just passive aggressive insults, you never actually bring up the subject matter, you just put people down who disagree with you. It’s time to mute you and this approach.
(In response to this post by TerryD)
T
TerryD
1y
Did you miss that part?
(In response to this post by Stech)
1y
the other P3 play at least 10, but most play 11 too. ND played 8 this year, and didn’t play the top 3 in ACC, that should matter in the selection. It’s not ND’s fault, the Selection Committee needs to plug these loopholes in the future.
That said, ND runs circles around the SEC and B1G in negotiating as usual. I applaud them for it, it’s not easy to do.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
1y
year, but should have still at least 10 for future years.
(In response to this post by reestuart)
1y
the SEC and B12 the same. While the B1G has 9 plus CCG. Some in B1G have another P4 OOC game, that’s 11. Yes Notre Dame needs to step it up and as you said too, play 10 P4’s every year.
I will repeat it’s not their fault they get away with it because the P4 agreed to it, but the P4 especially the P2 since they have the most power, need to close the loophole. In the meantime congratulations ND on the bye next week while 8 P4 teams play in Conference Championship games, and for likely getting a home game while only playing 8 P4 games. I’m not sure anybody else could pull that off.
(In response to this post by reestuart)
1y
(In response to this post by Stech)
1y
(In response to this post by reestuart)
1y
so late in the game.
(In response to this post by reestuart)