FSU and Clemson. They are different in geography and makeup, but better? The B12 is not a P2, by the measures that count, which include media money, blue blood programs, playoff and national championship experience. What I'm trying to convey, is that there seems to be an Atlantic Coast bias, especially from our conversations. You have been saying, and implying, that the current B12 is closer to a G5 conference, than they are to a P2 conference. I also think that you count FSU, Clemson, and ND when you compare the two conferences, and that currently is a fleeting argument. With the top schools in your conference, there is no argument from me that the ACC is the better football conference, but things have changed. We are discussing media money, playoff money, and yes, future performance on the field (recruiting). In my opinion, Cincy, Houston, and Baylor are the bottom 3 (weak links) - the rest are mid tier P2 schools. You will disagree with that, but I believe it's mostly because you have never followed any of the programs in the current B12. The ACC has more weak links than mid tier P2 programs, where that line is, is my personal bias. SMU, Wake, Cuse, BC, Duke, CAL and Stanford (in that order from worst to best). Not on the field or court, but for placement in a P2 - which seems to be the measuring stick. Pitt and GT could be swapped out for Cal and Stanford, but all four of those programs could be a mid tier P2 program as well, if they would just get their stuff together. So, if we were to create a third conference by merging schools, I'd only drop 3 from the B12, but would drop 6 from the ACC. Since history shows it's easier to expand than contract, for a host of reasons, Cincy, Houston, and Baylor might be the lucky ones. ** Edited by Big12 guy at 7/20/2024, 9:42:02 AM