Stech, there are rumors that Ohio has
reached out to the Sun Belt. If that happens, then the Sunbelt loses their footprint of being a strictly southern conference. Ohio, along with Toledo and Marshal, are schools that the AAC has consistently dismissed in their expansions.
The top few schools in the MAC do have media value, and the top schools are actually losing money playing those mid week games.
Link:
Rumor below
40 Replies
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Stech
1y
are crossed going to and coming back during the week for Olympic Sports. I have done it for business, and it can be hard, but to miss classes and have to study under those circumstances is very difficult and does not support the student in the student athlete. Don't you think it's a good thing for students?
** Edited by Stech at 7/12/2025, 12:27:52 AM
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
1y
As long as media rights is the single number one driver for revenue for members, the conferences must find the best suite of markets that bottomline increase the media revenue. As we see in the MAC, the programs are struggling with no substantial revenue stream to subsidize their programs.
However, I think if done smartly, national confernces can work,. I see the Sunbelt membership and allignment working very well, configured around regional programs. north and south. Its a niche.
I
(In response to this post by Stech)
1y
(In response to this post by Stech)
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Stech
1y
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
1y
Is permanent with these conferences, and the different time zones and ninth game is why the BIG is making more money than the SEC
(In response to this post by Stech)
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Stech
1y
should be focused on the "Student" Olympic Athletes IMHO and what is good for them. Since you clearly feel differently, let's agree to disagree again. You seem to love disagreeing with whatever I say lately (it wasn't always that way), so you just keep being you, and I will be me, if it makes you happier challenge whatever I post.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
1y
that the student athlete should be the focus, I certainly don't. I would even extend that beyond the Olympics, and include every sport. I also agree with you that regionally focused conferences would be better for everyone involved, especially the students.
I was hoping to get your view on the rumors of the SBC and a MAC school (Ohio), and how you see that evolving - that's all. Your opinion would have interested me based on many of your posts on this board.
(In response to this post by Stech)
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Stech
1y
they are a good school and I think they fit culturally with SBC. From what I have read there is divide in the SBC on who to take, but I have read recently, Louisiana Tech is the favorite.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
1y
to the SBC. East Carolina has had to do the same thing. While LA Tech certainly makes sense, the Sun Belt and the MAC both will have to expand their viewership if they want a bump in the upcoming media contracts. The competition with the G5 conferences is starting to get fierce, as many are no longer treading water, it's sink or swim time.
(In response to this post by Stech)
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Stech
1y
more in the American Conference.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
1y
There are plenty of "regional conferences" in DI now and I think you would have a tough time convincing them that they have a "failed business model."
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
1y
and existing power conferences were regional conferences. Except for the occasional OOC game, only ND had a national schedule.
The G5's (6) are now going through the same process. In order to up the media payouts, they need the matchups and markets, and are no different than the power conferences.
I'm on board to going back to regional conferences, and supporting the student athlete model, but looking around, it appears that ship has sailed for those schools wanting to compete at the highest levels. That includes any current FBS conference.
The MAC now has UMass, and has had Florida back in the day with UCF.
The Sun Belt didn't sponsor football until about 2001, and while they appear to be regional, the distance between Old Dominion and Texas State certainly wasn't regional.
Ohio has recently come out and stated that there were no discussions with the SBC, just like East Carolina had to do. You watch though, the next round of media contracts will shuffle the deck, and even G5 schools will be traveling. The difference might be that there will be a lot of "football only" members, like NUE now scheduling Hawaii as a conference game.
If they can come up with a way to keep basketball and Olympics regional, it would solve a lot of issues, for both the Power conferences and "G" conferences - but so far, that hasn't been the case.
(In response to this post by VTHokie2000)
1y
apart of its transition from DI-FCS to DI-FBS. The same was true for UMass the first time it was affiliated with the MAC which makes their decision to leave the Atlantic 10 to join the MAC as a full member an interesting choice.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
1y
early to mid '90s, there was influx of schools making the switch from DI-FCS to DI-FBS as an Independent or from DII to DI. The DI schools didn't think these moves were good for college athletics. So in '97 or '98, a moratorium was put into place to halt all movement. Then in the early 2000s (I think 2002) the moratorium was lifted with a significant change to the bylaws. If a school wants to switch from DI-FCS to DI-FBS in football, then the ONLY way it can do it is if the school receives a formal invitation from an existing DI-FBS conference.
Liberty receiving a hardship waiver from the NCAA for religious reasons was the first deviation from this new policy. Sacramento State tried to get a hardship waiver earlier this month or in June, but the NCAA rejected the request. I assume no public school will ever receive a hardship waiver from the NCAA because a public school will never meet any of the criteria. I believe this new requirement includes at least basketball and maybe all the other sports currently sponsored at the DI level.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
1y
of regional conferences has gone to hell in a hand basket.
There are FCS schools in Ohio that would move up to FBS, but the MAC has 6 in Ohio already. Today, that is TOO regional to complete.
If the SBC or the MAC can get a media contract worth $3M +, they will be able to add just about any school not already in the AAC. (West Coast not included).
There is a reason schools like Tarlington State want to be in the FBS, and being regional isn't it.
** Edited by Big12 guy at 7/12/2025, 11:41:40 AM
(In response to this post by VTHokie2000)
1y
split DI football into 2 subdivisions. The 2 subdivisions created the illusion (delusion?) that a school would somehow be "better off" competing in the FBS subdivision instead of the FCS subdivision. The schools probably should have created a fourth division level back in the late 1970s. The new division level could have been just for specific sports or all sports. I see pros and cons to either option. I'm leaning towards all sports because if schools really want to deviate for 1 sport, then it should be willing to deviate for all sports. The 2 subdivisions allowed certain schools to have their cake and eat it too which often leads to kicking the can (problems) down the road instead of dealing with the issue(s). Plus, the fourth division level could have high enough standards that only a small percentage of schools should have any desire to try to satisfy them.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
Athens, Ohio is in southeastern Ohio's Appalachian region. IMO, Ohio ...
would be a good fit with Marshall, JMU and App State. Sun Belt membership would likely help Ohio's football recruiting.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
1y
I was not very familiar with JMU, I am now - always hoped they would come to the MAC. A really missed opportunity for the MAC, and they will in all likelihood, go the way of conference USA because of it.
The MAC had a chance to expand in the day, but never found a way to make it stick.
(In response to this post by Old Line Hokie)
1y
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
1y
(In response to this post by reestuart)
1y
then you need more content in different markets. realistically, where else is the SBC going to expand? FCS and Conference USA has been picked over. Liberty is the only school worth anything in that conference, and the bottom 1/2 - 2/3's of the MAC is no different than conference USA.
(In response to this post by wwhokie1)
1y
Sunbelt conference is better than the MAC. Joining with the MAC would dilute their value. Sunbelt conference might be interested in adding the best teams from the Mac conference, but not a merger. Not enough value top to bottom.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
1y
The MAC is in a bit of a pickle because there aren't really any options to expand into KY, PA, NJ, MD, and back into IL. Yes, I know there are DI-FCS and even DII schools in those states. However, those schools are either not in the position to make the move to DI-FBS for football or have any desire to make the move for various reasons. Plus, an argument could be made that Buffalo and UMass should be in the AAC or even C-USA instead of the MAC because they are geographic outliers to the MAC footprint. When Western Kentucky (WKU) announced it was switching to DI-FBS, I was hoping that Buffalo would have joined the AAC so the MAC could fill that spot with WKU. If that had happened then the 6 OH schools (which is probably too much) could have been placed in a division with the 3 MI schools, Ball State, No. Illinois, and WKU in the other division.
As far as the Sun Belt losing its footprint of being a strictly southern conference, that may have already happened when Marshall joined the conference. At least I don't think there is a consensus among people that WV is considered to be a "southern state." Plus, if you consider the Sun Belt region to be a "southern region," then some maps have the northern part of the region stopping in the southern part of AR, NC, and TN. Which would mean that Arkansas State, Appalachian State, Middle Tennessee State (when it was a member), Western Kentucky (when it was a member), JMU, ODU, and Marshall are technically outside the Sun Belt region.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
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I85Hokie
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They are the largest state-run university in the 4th largest state, so it would seem they have a niche to fill.
(In response to this post by VTHokie2000)
1y
say that because I think Buffalo is apart of the State University of New York (SUNY) system. If I am correct, then I believe Stony Brook is the flagship for the SUNY system.
(In response to this post by I85Hokie)
1y
Historically they were generally co-equals. Depending on how you count, there are over 60 SUNY schools. A few schools like the University of Buffalo, Binghamton, Stony Brook and Albany have grown bigger than their counterparts. My wife graduated from and played basketball at SUNY Fredonia, which is about halfway between Buffalo and Erie, PA.
The land grant university of New York is Cornell, which is a hybrid of state and private schools. The schools perhaps most identified with New York athletically are Syracuse and West Point.
Ultimately, there really is no Tech or UVa in New York. The SUNY system has some excellent schools and UB is probably the first among equals.
(In response to this post by VTHokie2000)
1y
she designated both UB and Stony Brook as "flagships."
"UB and Stony Brook University have been designated the “flagships” of SUNY by Gov. Kathy Hochul, recognizing the two institutions for their status among the nation’s leading public research universities."
Link:
Click Here
(In response to this post by Tailgate Guru)
1y
UB and Stony Brook are good schools. For reasons unknown, they are AAU schools when more impressive schools are not. But I don’t think many people confuse those schools with Michigan or Cal-Berkeley or the like. Tech or UVa they are not. No one in Rochester gives a flip about Stony Brook and no one in Westchester County thinks much about UB.
The Governor is from Buffalo and Stony Brook is on Long Island, so it’s good politics for her, I suppose. The strength of the SUNY system is that there are very solid schools scattered all over a very large state. Whether all those campuses can be sustained in the future is a good question. But whether any of those schools are relevant in the context of major college football or major college sports generally is really not in question.
(In response to this post by VTHokie2000)
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I85Hokie
1y
Including the obviously well-known UCLA and Berkeley, almost all of the UC system schools are highly regarded academically, and I think most of them were ranked in the US News top-50. I believe UC-San Diego is AAU, yet like most of the UC schools has no major NCAA sports footprint (unlike its less highly academically regarded state system counterpart SDSU).
(In response to this post by Tailgate Guru)
1y
topic. Heck other systems may even have similar views towards its "flagship school" for whatever reason. The only reason I even mentioned the SUNY system is because it is plausible that the office politics within the system influenced how UB viewed athletics on its campus and even the various athletic decisions it made over the years. The same could be true for the other schools affiliated with the SUNY system.
A perfect example of what I am talking about is the Pennsylvania State System of Higher Education (not to be confused with Penn State's system). All the schools in the Pennsylvania State System of Higher Education (PASSHE) have chosen to remain at the DII level even though most of the 14 schools have an enrollment large enough to mirror most of the DI mid-major schools. West Chester University is the largest at 17,719.
(In response to this post by Tailgate Guru)
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RJHokie
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Link:
NY College Enrollments
(In response to this post by VTHokie2000)
1y
the school that manages the budget/funding for the entire system. From an accounting standpoint, it would be interesting to see how SUNY established its structure in the beginning and whether that structure has evolved over the years or not. Given where UB and Stony Brook are located within the state, it would not surprise me if New York had divided the SUNY system into East-West with each school being responsible for a specific region. At least there are benefits to having a centralized point in a university system from the state's perspective.
(In response to this post by RJHokie)
1y
New York was one of the last states to establish a system of public institutions of higher learning. It was organized in or around the 1940s, I believe. It’s an amalgam of different schools with different origins organized in a way that seems kind of inefficient in modern times.
UB was originally private. It was founded before the Civil War but did not become a part of the SUNY system until the early 1960s.
(In response to this post by VTHokie2000)
1y
happen in my opinion. There are only 4 schools that have the value to move at this point. Ohio, Miami(OH), WMU, and Toledo. Buffalo and UMass may have the most potential because of their academics and alumni money, but as of yet, they just haven't made the commitment that is required. The rest of the MAC just do not have the money, to field teams that compete on the NIL(money) it is going to take to be a top G6 school. Kent State and Akron have already come out and said that they are going all in on basketball with 50% of their revenue. I'd rather see a FCS upstart that is actually making the commitment to improve their football, JMU comes to mind.
With NIU going to the Mountain West, the other schools are looking around, as the Titanic (MAC) is looking at an iceberg right in front of them, and I don't think they will be able to avoid it any longer.
With the G6 media contract negotiations, ESPN and others just might be telling the conferences what it will take to get a better contract, and no one wants to go to the MAC.
** Edited by Big12 guy at 7/10/2025, 10:17:34 AM
(In response to this post by VTHokie2000)
1y
out. Hence why I thought the MAC's window might have been about 10 years ago. At least I think that is how long WKU has been in DI-FBS for football. Even with the division realignment I proposed, the MAC may have been better suited to participate in DI-FCS for football.
As far as the media contracts go, I do think there are a few more curveballs out there that people have not seen yet. The curveballs I am thinking of are court rulings and/or changes in the laws (federal or state). Right now, the MAC and probably C-USA appear to be dead conferences walking. Then again, the same thing probably could be said for the ACC with its execution date set for June 30, 2036 (if not sooner). I guess it is even possible the AAC, Big XII, and Pac-12 are unknowingly in the same boat too. I will say if the Sun Belt ends up being the only non-P2 conference to survive, then that would be wild because no one would have predicted that scenario to be the one that comes to fruition.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
1y
are just too many schools that are spending buckets of money to be in FBS football.
(In response to this post by VTHokie2000)
1y
fact the schools are all meeting to discuss the NCAA re-org plan. Given that all three division levels are participating in these meetings, it is likely this is another potential curveball. Specifically, I'm thinking about the schools redefining the "requirements" for each division level and/or any subdivisions. If the DI schools decided to create a subdivision for football, then it is possible subdivisions could be created for any sport.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)
1y
became clear that 2 camps were forming on how much a school is willing to invest in the sport. Could something similar happen when it comes to discussing how much to pay the players for the sport or even which sports to pay players? Heck it is even possible that both factors could eventually lead to 2 camps forming like what people saw with DI football back in the late 1970s to mid-1980s. People may not know or forget that not every school quietly accepted its fate to become a DI-FCS school. I believe some schools (Richmond and VMI come to mind) even went as far as to take legal action to prevent their forced move to a subdivision.
(In response to this post by Big12 guy)