except for BC. It doesn't make sense.

You make some valid points but you along with everyone else knows that Notre Dame values its football independence more than life itself. I feel like Notre Dame is afraid it would lose its identity if they joined a football conference. They are afraid that they'll become just another college football team and that all their traditions and history will gradually be forgotten over time. No one except for the Notre Dame fans will remember Knute Rockne, Rudy, The Leprechaun, their famous fight song and Touchdown Jesus. The traditionalists will never allow football conference membership to happen. I understand not wanting to give up traditions, but Tech gave up a big one in the 1980's when they stopped playing longtime rival VMI. That game was once bigger than UVA. Tech hasn't played VMI since 1984. What happen? Times changed. Tech was heading to big time football and VMI wasn't. Is Notre Dame living in the past by holding on to its football independence? I think so. By 2036, I have a feeling Notre Dame will finally give in simply because they'll have to in order to survive. The ACC agreement is just buying them more time to live in the past. I agree with TerryD that Notre Dame will never be a fulltime member of the ACC. They'll probably end up in the Big Ten by 2036 when they're finally forced to, OR they'll become a G-5 program to keep their football independence. Notre Dame's ego is too large to drop down to the G-5 level.

That somehow has unequal representation in the CFB world.

Now that may not have always been the case, but definitely is now.

They will follow the $$$$$.
[Post edited by EDGEMAN at 01/26/2022 07:14AM]

refusing on "moral" grounds, BUT ND then sets up NIL similar to A&M and "claims" we're different - again. While the details may be different, the logic of ND's morals reminds me of Liberty.

Boosters running NIL companies/funds is paying players with money that is realistically from the AD regardless of a paper trail - and everyone knows it.

given the principles the school was founded on. Then again, the position Notre Dame has taken WRT the football program raises a whole bunch of philosophical discussions/debates given that Notre Dame was founded as a religious school. As Spok might say/ask, "The needs of the 1 outweigh the needs of the many?"

Whether Notre Dame (more specifically the people in decision making roles) are making the right or wrong decision, I cannot say. Honestly, I don't believe it is my place to pass judgment on whatever decision Notre Dame makes on this issue. Instead I leave that responsibility to a higher power to make at some point in the future. At least I'm assuming that the entire Notre Dame leadership believes that each one of them will be judged when they die.

Lol, got it. Everyone at ND should go to confession, I guess?

What conference does God root for?

God or religion or a "higher power" has nothing to do with conferences, realignment or football independence.

If it does, then all schools are sinners since all schools' athletic departments have made decisions about conference membership or realignment based on more money versus "religious principles."

What overarching religious or moral principles were at play when the SEC and Big Ten signed mega dollar TV deals?

What dogma was being followed when the ACC gutted the Big East?

Should VT or Miami or BC be "judged" for leaving the Big East in 2003?

The fact that ND was founded by the Holy Cross Order of priests is irrelevant to any of these issues.

ND has stated that it won't participate if athletes are direct university employees.,

Do you know what they didn't mention as a reason to oppose this?

Religious or moral grounds.





[Post edited by TerryD at 01/27/2022 3:59PM]

the potential problem is with Notre Dame's desire to be an independent in football. If God did have a problem with Notre Dame's leadership, then I would think it would be with gluttony, greed, pride, and maybe vanity which are all considered to be a deadly sin.

Public schools and non-religious private schools are generally given the latitude to approach the business aspect of college athletics as being a secular issue. Whereas a religious school may not be given that same latitude. It may not be right or even fair for people to have a different standard for religious schools. At the same time since a religious school is founded on defined core principles and it decides to pursue (secular) business ventures which may conflict with those core principles, then people could view the school's leadership as being hypocrites. For example, everyone knows that BYU requires all of its students to serve a 2 year mission trip before they can graduate. If BYU announced tomorrow that football players are no longer required to do a mission trip and they are the only students exempt from this requirement, then most people would view BYU's leaders as being hypocrites for making that decision.

WRT your questions about the SEC, Big Ten, VT, and Miami, they weren't founded on religious principles. As a result, all those decisions are viewed as being secular issues which I referenced earlier in the post. Now God may still judge those people for the decisions they have made over the years. Even though BC was founded as a religious school, BC made its decision based on what was best for its entire athletic department instead of what is best for 1 sport. Now whether that decision conflicts with the school's core principles, I can't say. I'll let God be the judge of that. It is even possible that God is not please that mankind may not be doing enough to use athletics to promote Christianity regardless of the person's role (i.e. college president, AD, coach, player, support role, fan, etc.) within athletics.

with Notre Dame's decision to hold fast to its position with football. Also, I do understand the business aspect of Notre Dame's decision and I don't blame the leadership for taking full advantage of it. From the spiritual aspect, I can even see why some people would consider it to be one of God's "blessings." Given that I'm Presbyterian, there is even a possibility I would feel that way if Presbyterian College ever found itself in the same position Notre Dame is in now even though I never attended the college.

At the same time, I probably would still have some spiritual related questions concerning Presbyterian's "success" and "good fortune" particularly after the behavior of the leadership at Liberty became public knowledge. In Liberty's case, I already had some knowledge about the leadership from my days at VT ('96-'00) because 1 of my roommates was from "Jerry's Town" (aka Lynchburg). He told me his experiences while growing up there which only confirmed my suspicions about Jerry Falwell and the other top leaders at Liberty.

Also, I grew up in a city with 2 DIII religious schools in the area; Eastern Mennonite University and Bridgewater College (Church of the Brethren). So I got to see how their faith influenced a lot of decisions they made in both academics and athletics. At least the leadership at both schools seemed to try to make decisions that aligned with the school's affiliation even if the person had a different Christian faith.

Now I do believe that Notre Dame's leadership, past and present, has tried to do the same that I believe is happening at EMU and Bridgewater College. At the same time, given how much money seems to be available to be made in college athletics these days, it does make me wonder at what point does a school, religious or secular, go from making enough money to fulfill the school's mission to a school that is just being "greedy." I know God is the only one who truly knows that answer and it is likely that I will never know the answer. I'm at peace with that mindset. However, I am finding the lack of information makes it a little challenging to form an opinion on whether I would prefer to see VT remain with the power conferences and chase after more money vs. join a G5 conference because the pursuit of more money is being driven by "greed" and it will only lead to more problems or an increase in potentially unethical decisions that go against VT's core values.

As a faithful Catholic there is things that tend to run counter to doctrinal beliefs when looking at ND sports and the admin. But that could be said in every aspect of life, both secular and religious (not to make an excuse). But as you stated religious affiliated colleges, charities, churches are held to a higher standard. ND though right now is not chasing the highest dollar; to the contrary it taking less to preserve the status quo. But if/when the choice is made for a conference the most money offered likely will win. For me that is conflicting, I loathe the Big 10, and never want to join them, but I do want ND to be in the best spot possible (that means money).

As a person hypocrisy and competing interest can run together at the same time. I do not like the money in the sport, but I want ND to be in a great spot. I don't know, kind of rambling (I am tired and it is late), but I do understand why expectations are different for ND. While not always fair, they should be expected.

[Post edited by goldendomer at 01/28/2022 10:12AM]

wins. In the case of Notre Dame the traditional base wants the term Independence to survive. The school IMHO would like to change because scheduling is a lot harder than people think it is, but the big donor money has them boxed in.

So yeah ND is pursuing the money first, just not the TV money first.

This is why keeping Notre Dame an Alliance Football member like it is right now, but expanding the number of games and adding Navy as a full member is a possible solution. Especially if no Divisions and two highest ranked teams go to the playoff and the ACC says Notre Dame can win that automatic bid. In this case, it’s all gain and no losses.

[Post edited by Stech at 01/28/2022 07:37AM]

Why would ND want to be entangled more with the ACC, with this scheme, especially with its championship game, without being a football member?

Why would an independent ND want to add one more ACC game? Five now is too many, according to many ND folks.

Why would the other 14 ACC schools want this, at all ?

I don't think that Navy wants to be a full ACC member, either.

Do you want Navy as a football only member?

take this arrangement under the current circumstances. Why wouldn't we? It's better than what we have now.

,,,among ACC fans if a non-member ND could qualify for the conference championship game.

I just don't think that you would find enough ND/Navy/ACC support for this scheme, no matter what my personal preferences would be.

Now TerryD wants us to play less ACC games. So I think you are projecting your own feelings here.

PS Our number 2 ranked team could still get in, if the rankings were good enough, so it would be a net gain for the ACC.

With the current downturn it may have retreated, but a 20 billion dollar endowment for a small Catholic school is insane. That was built off of the football program.
[Post edited by goldendomer at 01/28/2022 10:11AM]

Then again, when I think about the history of the Catholic Church and all the questionable decisions various leaders have made over the years in the name of the church, or in the name of religion if you wanted to expand it even further, I come the conclusion that Notre Dame's endowment may pale in comparison to those decisions.

Besides, I believe the Ivy League schools all have larger endowments which may put Notre Dame's to shame and there may even be a few other secular schools in the same boat as the Ivy League schools. I get that some of the endowment may be restricted for specific purposes. I just hope these schools are putting their endowment to good use instead of squandering the opportunity that has been presented to them.

world. Conferences are a form of communism. Communism=bad, therefore God does not like conferences. Follow the logic? lol

of its other sports instead of become an Independent for all sports. ;-)

and bring more eyeballs. The rivalries we have with Miami, FSU and to a MUCH lesser extent BC would be good television. The VT and ND games have been good and rated well. The gap would still be large, but would it more palatable for everyone? plus the CCG would be a beneficiary if we made it.

There is no way to catch the big 2. but to narrow the gap within 10 million would likely save the conference. Total guess.

for its current games. I don't know if that is significantly different, but I suspect it would get at least a little bump.

has pretty much doomed the ACC to many more weeknight games in the future. I could be wrong, but I don't know where else those games would be placed in the lineup.

only special will get a ESPN2.

all prime ESPN/ABC 330 and 8 PM games on Saturday to SEC.

maybe a friday nite event. THAT's IT.

slot is basically a non-starter.