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hokieZ71
Joined: 01/03/2007
Posts: 18,413
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They haven't extended the contract, yet gave Calford + SMU their blessing?

Those three schools don't get added if ESPN doesn't want them to be added. That much is for darn certain. And can we be just offer a disclaimer for this entire board that it is TV money that's driving all of this? School presidents aren't sitting around thinking about how they can alter the way the nation consumes college sports on TV. Media companies are. The media companies offer money to the school presidents' athletic programs to make the changes occur in the manner they see fit. So the real question you need to answer is "Why is ESPN OK with adding three 'mid' additions to the ACC"? That is up for debate, but ESPN clearly knows FSU and Clemson want out, but due to the Calford + SMU adds, that must mean that ESPN also wants the ACC to remain a viable athletic conference. My guesses (2) as to ESPN's reasoning are: (This is long, if you want to just get to key points, scroll down to the ****Basic Summary statement*****) 1) Because of the revenue and profit BOTH the ACC Network and SEC Network produces. First the ACC Network $$$- Everybody knows the $$ situation at Disney/ESPN and the simple fact is the ACC Network adds 9 figures of revenue per year to ESPN's books and will continue to do so for the next 13 years. Extinguishing that cash stream is bad business. Who says "No" to what will likely amount to $1.5 Billion dollars over a decade-plus? Yes, cord cutting will continue to be a thing and paid subscriber fees to Dish, DirecTV and Comcast will continue to drop, but it's not going away, because subscriptions to YouTube Live and Hulu Live continue to rise. There are over 12 Million subscribers to those Live TV services. It's not disappearing, it's just shifting. It won't even make a large sized dent before 2036. Live sports will remain a cash cow for most of our lifetimes. Eventually, it will be replaced by paid streaming subscribers, but not likely by the end of the ACC Media Rights deal. But, what if FSU and Clemson go to the B1G? Well, the ACC Network still pulls in Florida revenue with Miami and losing South Carolina is more than offset by adding Texas and California, so ESPN still makes their ACCN revenue if FSU and Clemson leave. Now - SEC Network $$$ On the other hand, what if ESPN could add FSU and Clemson to the SEC Network? NOTHING, they add zippo to SEC Network revenue. The SEC Network has ~70 million subscribers paying $1.40 per sub. (These are somewhat old numbers, but it probably isn't much different today...keep that in mind) If the SEC adds FSU + Clemson, the SEC Network adds exactly........zero subscribers. Multiplying 0 times $1.40 = $0 added subscriber fees. Now, what about the rest of the SEC? 70 million subs x $1.40 = $98 million dollars. Per month. $98M x 12 months = $1.176B per year. (I'm guessing this is about 4-5 times the ACC Network revenue, btw) This $1.176B revenue is most likely split 50/50 just going off the ACC's deal with ESPN. So splitting $1.176B in half means $588 million is generated by the SEC Network that's delivered to the SEC member schools. $588M divided by 16 schools = $36.75M per school per year JUST from the SEC Network. (For comparison, I think ACC schools get about $8M-$10M per school annually from the ACC Network) Now....lets add FSU and Clemson with their ZERO added SEC Network dollars $588M divided by 18 = $32.67M. So every SEC school takes a $4M+ hit to allow FSU and Clemson to join? So, this mean ESPN has to say "Hey Florida/Bama/South Carolina/etc..., can you guys vote to add FSU and Clemson? Your conference will get harder to win, its going to be harder to recruit and we are taking $4M away from you every year!" I don't think so..... Or....ESPN tries to ram a subscriber rate hike down Comcast/Dish/DirecTV's throats to get the money back? In this economy? I also don't think so.... I honestly think ESPN loses money (a lot) if FSU and Clemson jump to the SEC. So, in summary - FSU and Clemson leaving for the B1G does nothing to hurt ACC Network revenue as long as the league stays viable. It also does nothing to hurt SEC Network payout per school nor ESPN's payment to those 16 SEC schools. However, ESPN would have to pay (a LOT) to the current SEC to compensate them for adding FSU and Clemson or ask Comcast/Dish/DirecTV/Hulu/YouTube to pay for it. This is why I could see FSU and Clemson to the B1G as a realistic possibility. **** Basic Summary statement******* - FSU and Clemson want out and are fighting like mad to get out. ESPN will lose money if they go to the SEC, but won't really lose money if they go to the B1G. ESPN also wants the ACC to stick around close to its current form, because it's making good money there, so I could see ESPN working to allow FSU and Clemson to leave, but making it right for the rest of the ACC $$$-wise to allow them to leave, yet stay together afterwards. -This is why UNC was the only remaining ACC school to vote against expansion - because the other schools know there is more money by keeping the ACC together. Only FSU, Clemson and UNC can make more money elsewhere. Miami, VT, UVA, NC State - none of them are getting a better deal from the P2 or Big 12 (for the time being) than what they're getting from ESPN to stay in the ACC and allow FSU and Clemson to leave. ********************************************* 2) It keeps Notre Dame happy and out of the B1G and Fox's control. I think ND's current relationship with the ACC Network is a boon for ESPN. ESPN does get 2-3 ACC home football games vs Notre Dame per year, not to mention full ND inclusion on the ACC Network for all other sports, and they have to be pretty happy with that arrangement. Notre Dame is obviously getting paid like a P2 school to remain independent, so they are certainly good with that as well. Conclusion for the ACC. FSU and Clemson want out. They won't be here much longer. The B1G probably is the right place for them based on the fact the SEC and ESPN probably doesn't want them in the SEC. So, the next domino is UNC, and based purely on finances, I could see ESPN trying to keep UNC in the ACC for the time being. All of that FSU/Clemson -> SEC money talk above kinda extends to UNC. North Carolina has 4.3M TV subscribers. Even if the SEC Network wasn't currently cashing in a full $1.40 per subscriber in North Carolina (I'd find it hard to believe the SEC Network isn't getting a full carriage fee in NC for ESPN), the difference between in-market and out-of-market subscriber fees is around $1.00 per month, so that's roughly $4.3M a month than UNC adds to the SEC Network revenue (MAYBE! Again, I feel like NC subscribers are already paying a full share because of proximity to the SEC). So ($4.3M x 12months)/17 new SEC members = about $3M per year of value added per school on an annual basis. And why would there be 17 schools in the SEC? It's weird, so go 18. You could add UVA and that also probably keeps a fairly consistent $3M value added with the addition of the state of VA's slightly-smaller-than-NC subscriber base. BUT, this is ESPN, and that will be the straw that breaks the ACC's back and ruins the ACC's valuation as a whole. So....while the SEC school's may make more money, ESPN loses big on the ACC falling completely apart. So I don't see that happening for now.
Posted: 06/22/2024 at 09:29 AM ET
(In response to this post by INSIDE99)

Thread Replies (179)

Full Thread →
Why hasn't ESPN extended the ACC contract? Composition Clauses
INSIDE99 06/21/24 12:33 AM ET
ESPN & FOX did work together on Texas/OU 2 SEC early, here’s the article
Stech 06/23/24 01:51 PM ET
There is a ton of collaboration
INSIDE99 06/23/24 02:32 PM ET
They haven't extended the contract, yet gave Calford + SMU their blessing?
hokieZ71 06/22/24 09:29 AM ET
I think you have a lot right but one thing
VTCALS72 06/22/24 11:07 AM ET
The SEC is not sitting this one out
INSIDE99 06/22/24 12:53 PM ET
I "know" now that everything @2hhoop3 has written in response
saret 06/22/24 02:05 PM ET
Wow. You’re an angry little man. **
Oscar the American 06/22/24 10:14 PM ET
Not angry. Just don't like trolls.**
saret 06/22/24 10:26 PM ET
Why don't you just ignore their posts then?**
132863Hokie 06/23/24 09:07 AM ET
I have! For weeks! But, you're right. I should just ignore him and
saret 06/23/24 09:15 AM ET
Everything on this board is speculation. I don't see anything as fact. **
132863Hokie 06/23/24 10:51 AM ET
You guys are just name calling without giving specifics that bother you,
Stech 06/23/24 10:15 AM ET
I find it interesting you responded to my post, when my post
saret 06/23/24 10:26 AM ET
You called him a troll, that’s name calling whether it’s me or not. You
Stech 06/23/24 10:45 AM ET
You are entitled to......
2hhoop3 06/23/24 12:35 PM ET
I stand by the troll comment. And now, you're making a mountain out of
saret 06/23/24 12:08 PM ET
lol!! You are 100% on the mark!! Troll fits this clown to a tee!! Might
ancient alien 2018 06/22/24 10:07 PM ET
Sorry you feel that way
INSIDE99 06/22/24 07:13 PM ET
I doubt you and I would be tailgating together. I'm very particular
saret 06/22/24 10:23 PM ET
Why so mad? Acc crumbles - it will be ok **
AnotherTechW 06/22/24 10:37 PM ET
I'm very clear that what happens to the ACC is of little or no
saret 06/23/24 12:12 PM ET
No concerns
INSIDE99 06/23/24 02:50 PM ET
Why do you think it will be ok?
VTCALS72 06/23/24 11:50 AM ET
It will be okay, from my perspective. As far as the BIG12 and its
saret 06/23/24 12:20 PM ET
Not everyone here feels like that, keep posting, the different viewpoints
Stech 06/22/24 08:16 PM ET
Pls don't enable him.**
saret 06/22/24 10:26 PM ET
Will Stewart enables all of us to post here, not me. I want various views
Stech 06/22/24 11:27 PM ET
Great post and I agree. I have enjoyed reading his posts.**
JohnsonCItyHokie 06/25/24 12:04 PM ET
That's not his schtick. He's trolling He wants to be seen as an
ancient alien 2018 06/23/24 01:29 AM ET
Why would Will let him post if that were the case? No one is 100% right,
Stech 06/23/24 10:12 AM ET
I "let him post" because I've never received a single complaint about him.**
Will StewartAdmin 06/24/24 12:00 AM ET
Appreciate it
INSIDE99 06/25/24 12:12 AM ET
Where do you think FSU is headed.**
133193Hokie 06/22/24 01:48 PM ET
B1G
INSIDE99 06/22/24 09:47 PM ET
How could they be LOCKED when no conference in their right mind would get
sacramento hokie 06/23/24 10:03 AM ET
You have also........
2hhoop3 06/22/24 09:54 PM ET
Why hasn’t this happened with every team that’s left a conference?**
AnotherTechW 06/22/24 10:39 PM ET
What schools left during their Grant of Rights period?
mrcaniac 06/23/24 12:48 AM ET
You are 100% correct!**
ancient alien 2018 06/23/24 01:35 AM ET
Perhaps the threats were.......
2hhoop3 06/22/24 10:56 PM ET
The ACC is going to sue the B1G, FOX, NBC and CBS?
INSIDE99 06/22/24 10:38 PM ET
TX/OU announced that their departure date from the BigXII was 6/30/25
mrcaniac 06/23/24 12:57 AM ET
They defended themselves.......
2hhoop3 06/22/24 10:53 PM ET
Where did you hear FOX and ESPN
INSIDE99 06/23/24 12:46 AM ET
There was no need to hear.....
2hhoop3 06/23/24 01:49 AM ET
Texas Oklahoma agreement to SEC was ESPN & Fox working it out so Fox was
Stech 06/23/24 10:07 AM ET
tortious interference common knowledge - VT talking with SEC partners?
INSIDE99 06/23/24 02:19 PM ET
Discussions.....
2hhoop3 06/23/24 02:50 PM ET
So Pitt is off the hook
INSIDE99 06/23/24 03:05 PM ET
Thanks for the reply.........
2hhoop3 06/23/24 03:13 PM ET
It was not just .......
2hhoop3 06/23/24 12:20 PM ET
As long as they pay the appropriate exit fees, they can go
saret 06/22/24 02:29 PM ET
To hell…..?
RJHokie 06/22/24 01:50 PM ET
And do not pass GO and do not collect one cent in TV revenue!!**
ancient alien 2018 06/22/24 10:09 PM ET
I don’t begrudge FSU at all. They are potentially fighting for
133193Hokie 06/22/24 03:06 PM ET
The exact same can be said for the Wakes, BCs, Cuse,
VTCALS72 06/23/24 06:29 AM ET
While I agree that the networks have immense power in regards
Big12 guy 06/23/24 08:12 AM ET
ESPN has the power but why would you think they would have added Ore and Wa
VTCALS72 06/23/24 11:22 AM ET
The picture of two top conferences, and three
Big12 guy 06/23/24 11:44 AM ET
Isn't "our opinions" really all that is posted on here?
VTCALS72 06/23/24 11:55 AM ET
I have zero issue with reading your opinions, or anyone else's
Big12 guy 06/23/24 11:58 AM ET
Yep, your opinion. Mine is the PAC is coming back
VTCALS72 06/23/24 12:01 PM ET
I think you are right.......
2hhoop3 06/22/24 03:59 PM ET
I’d say 50% FSU fault and 50% ACC
HokieAl 06/22/24 07:48 PM ET
FSU & Clemson wanted easy scheduling model & 8 games playing 1 SEC team but
Stech 06/22/24 06:45 PM ET
Those folks would sell their mother’s soul to the devil..**
RJHokie 06/22/24 03:56 PM ET
Hokie, the figure you use for "TV subscriptions" looks, to me, a lot like
33laszlo99 06/22/24 10:48 AM ET
Unless ESPN has some contractual incentive to exercise the option early...
SMU Pony 06/22/24 09:06 AM ET
One reason may be in the current instability of the ACC and trying
VTCALS72 06/22/24 10:54 AM ET
I think that instability is part of why they haven't exercised it yet...
SMU Pony 06/22/24 03:05 PM ET
There has been zero good reporting on the ESPN acc contract
SpeakToDamien 06/21/24 09:06 PM ET
Does anyone know the exact wording of the composition clause? This
Big12 guy 06/21/24 12:15 PM ET
Four score and seven years ago...**
VTBoar 06/21/24 08:37 PM ET
As I understood it, the ACC had pro rata for their adds to the conference.
Maroon Baboon 06/21/24 12:13 PM ET
Find it hard to believe ESPN wasn't consulted before Sta/Cal/SMU were added**
HokieNoVA 06/21/24 02:12 PM ET
ESPN was consulted.
HOO86 06/21/24 07:19 PM ET
I still believe ESPN was more than "consulted" Driving the additions?, yes.**
VTCALS72 06/22/24 08:20 AM ET
Interesting. Did the ACC choose SMU over Wazzu and Oregon State?
Maroon Baboon 06/21/24 08:05 PM ET
I think SMU was a really good addition. I think they'll be in the top 6
TDVick 06/23/24 07:39 PM ET
Oregon State President wasn't interested
HOO86 06/21/24 08:17 PM ET
I wonder what Stanford and Cal think of WSU and OSU.
Maroon Baboon 06/21/24 08:23 PM ET
All I know is that the didn't want to rebuild PAC12 with them
HOO86 06/21/24 09:09 PM ET
Nevada and CSU to ACC - We are living in bizarro world. All Coast Conferenc**
AnotherTechW 06/22/24 07:02 AM ET
If they weren't, then the ACC brass made the move to protect the contract.
Big12 guy 06/21/24 05:03 PM ET
Composition Clauses Expanded/Clarifications
INSIDE99 06/21/24 01:05 PM ET
OK. But what about the pro rata?
Maroon Baboon 06/21/24 01:46 PM ET
Adding markets and not paying them adds money, yes **
INSIDE99 06/21/24 01:57 PM ET
But is the pro-rata clause part of the ACC-ESPN deal, or no?
Maroon Baboon 06/21/24 02:03 PM ET
The pro rata was automatic for P5 adds
mrcaniac 06/21/24 06:58 PM ET
Sounds right. I forgot about the P5 angle.
Maroon Baboon 06/21/24 08:00 PM ET
WSU and OSU couldn't afford to come in to the ACC at a discounted rate
mrcaniac 06/21/24 09:52 PM ET
No one that can........
2hhoop3 06/21/24 12:25 PM ET
Without the wording of the contract, the speculation is at
Big12 guy 06/21/24 12:41 PM ET
As has repeatedly been said.......
2hhoop3 06/21/24 12:48 PM ET
We don’t know who he/she is with that handle, but we do know Will does and
Stech 06/21/24 01:04 PM ET
TJ Pittinger was Talking a Lot About This Composition Clause Kicking in
WarHog38 06/21/24 04:06 PM ET
So are you saying Inside99 is TJ Pittinger?**
Stech 06/21/24 04:58 PM ET
The Links That Inside99 Provides are Beyond Pittinger's Grasp From What I
WarHog38 06/21/24 05:28 PM ET
Who is UNC going to sue? Their Board of Governors?
VTCALS72 06/22/24 08:32 AM ET
Just Assuming That UNC Would Get that BOG Interference Resolved
WarHog38 06/22/24 03:03 PM ET
Ask the NBC guy
INSIDE99 06/22/24 12:45 AM ET
Not Talking About Legal or Real Names
WarHog38 06/22/24 03:10 AM ET
Reply to Josh Pate - Wooo Pig Sooie!
INSIDE99 06/22/24 12:02 PM ET
Fair enough
INSIDE99 06/21/24 01:29 PM ET
Thank you for our share in the favor, but VT fans have been on the
Maroon Baboon 06/21/24 05:21 PM ET
I am leaning toward believing you know what you are talking about. My
Stech 06/21/24 02:54 PM ET
This board has a propensity to yank one back on the
Big12 guy 06/21/24 05:10 PM ET
I'm not sure what "reservation" and "echo chamber" you are talking about,
Maroon Baboon 06/21/24 05:26 PM ET
I meant it as a compliment, not a dig.
Big12 guy 06/21/24 05:31 PM ET
Apologies if I misunderstood. **
Maroon Baboon 06/21/24 06:06 PM ET
Will has the ability.......
2hhoop3 06/21/24 01:10 PM ET
So no matter if he is right or not, you won't believe he knew anything? Do
Stech 06/21/24 02:35 PM ET
No ......
2hhoop3 06/21/24 04:11 PM ET
I’m not sure what you’re asking about on this, can you give me more detail?**
Stech 06/21/24 04:57 PM ET
The poster you.......
2hhoop3 06/21/24 05:39 PM ET
Your questions don't make sense
INSIDE99 06/21/24 11:59 PM ET
Before you comment.......
2hhoop3 06/22/24 01:54 AM ET
You have already said that if he is right, you are still not going to
Stech 06/22/24 11:03 AM ET
You can believe ......
2hhoop3 06/22/24 11:25 AM ET
It's your turn, what do U think is going to happen? FSU & Clemson staying?
Stech 06/22/24 01:00 PM ET
I have said it before.......
2hhoop3 06/22/24 01:17 PM ET
You're the one not paying attention IMHO, can you tell me where I stand on
Stech 06/22/24 01:44 PM ET
I do not think........
2hhoop3 06/22/24 02:08 PM ET
That was fairly accurate, if I had my way the ACC would make as much money
Stech 06/22/24 02:43 PM ET
You thought at one time it was possible for the ACC to make as much as the
NokieHokie 06/22/24 03:08 PM ET
Early on yes, with Miami, FSU, Clemson winning Natty’s, & VT top 5-10,
Stech 06/22/24 04:06 PM ET
I agree that the ACC had a window, it was small and closed fast. The ACC
NokieHokie 06/22/24 04:09 PM ET
Easy scheduling model buried ACC football. Terrible TV ratings, FSU, Miami
Stech 06/22/24 06:52 PM ET
Yep. And Frank loved his Coastal schedule, as well.**
Femoyer Hokie 06/22/24 08:53 PM ET
Most Coaches want an easy schedule, but it’s up to the Commissioner to stop
Stech 06/22/24 11:30 PM ET
You also had some poor leadership at the schools’ level too. **
RJHokie 06/22/24 07:06 PM ET
ACC had bball-loving loser leadership.**
NokieHokie 06/22/24 06:54 PM ET
If you can.....
2hhoop3 06/22/24 02:59 PM ET
Did you initially believe FSU would not be able to leave the ACC? Or have
Stech 06/22/24 03:53 PM ET
I thought........
2hhoop3 06/22/24 04:04 PM ET
Okay, I definitely I had the impression you didn’t think they could leave
Stech 06/22/24 04:27 PM ET
The GOR.......
2hhoop3 06/22/24 04:55 PM ET
Hubris
DrHokie 06/21/24 07:48 PM ET
Inflections do not come across well on these boards, so most,
Big12 guy 06/21/24 12:55 PM ET
Inflections do not need.......
2hhoop3 06/21/24 01:02 PM ET
Lol...
DrHokie 06/21/24 07:52 PM ET
It only makes sense that the composition clause pertains to who are members
WBGV 06/21/24 11:53 AM ET
Currently the ACC has the media rights of 14.5 members
mrcaniac 06/21/24 10:11 AM ET
He’s saying the Composition Clause is triggered with two schools no matter
Stech 06/21/24 11:54 AM ET
do you have any confirmation that the extension thing is actually real
daveinop 06/21/24 08:25 AM ET
The Composition Clause
INSIDE99 06/21/24 10:08 AM ET
First post you said subtract or add 2 teams. So wouldn't it trigger soon?
HokieAl 06/21/24 11:36 AM ET
pretty big assumptions
daveinop 06/21/24 11:26 AM ET
Two way street for ACC
INSIDE99 06/21/24 11:43 AM ET
you are helping to make my point
daveinop 06/21/24 01:16 PM ET
ACC late time slots
INSIDE99 06/21/24 01:41 PM ET
so you are saying that ESPN just approved composition changes to a contract
daveinop 06/22/24 10:53 AM ET
Keeping the ACC together
INSIDE99 06/22/24 12:26 PM ET
I expect silly and surprising stuff to happen in realignment but
daveinop 06/22/24 07:28 PM ET
The ACC just added 3 schools that avoids composition clause issues
Femoyer Hokie 06/21/24 10:31 AM ET
The Composition Clause
INSIDE99 06/21/24 10:43 AM ET
The B12 lost OU and TX, and their $ went up.
Truthahn 06/21/24 11:41 AM ET
My understanding is the three pending additions were voted in to
Femoyer Hokie 06/21/24 10:48 AM ET
They are not official members yet...**
VintonHokies 06/21/24 10:34 AM ET
Soon enough
mrcaniac 06/21/24 01:53 PM ET
Fair point.**
Femoyer Hokie 06/21/24 10:49 AM ET
Are you sure about the IMMEDIATE?
VTCALS72 06/21/24 07:37 AM ET
No offense but
MrFantastic! 06/21/24 05:12 AM ET
But what does VT "survival" look like?
VTCALS72 06/21/24 07:48 AM ET
Survival depends on what ESPN does with the ACC
HokieAl 06/21/24 08:30 AM ET
Current level of money does not allow us to "keep up."
VTCALS72 06/21/24 10:49 AM ET
Football will survive, we will keep investing there. Olympic Men’s Sports
Stech 06/21/24 08:57 AM ET
You can take the thought of endowment helping at VT
Pylons 06/21/24 10:25 AM ET
Please explain why UVA can do it but Tech cannot do it?
Stech 06/21/24 11:44 AM ET
Endowment: UVA = $13.6B UNC =$10.6B VT <$2B**
133919Hokie 06/21/24 01:42 PM ET
Can't do as much, but that's certainly not chicken feed either.**
Stech 06/21/24 02:56 PM ET
Sure
Pylons 06/21/24 01:18 PM ET
You are saying they can do it too, but the ~1.7 Billion isn't enough to do
Stech 06/21/24 02:47 PM ET
I hear you,
Pylons 06/21/24 03:14 PM ET
All excellent points, which is why I think that some Men’s Sports could
Stech 06/21/24 03:39 PM ET
Could be. Can't necessarily do much of (just) that though
Pylons 06/21/24 03:50 PM ET
85 football scholarships have to be made up on the Women’s side, correct?
Stech 06/21/24 04:05 PM ET
The distribution of scholarships has to stay
Pylons 06/21/24 04:14 PM ET
K-State was looking down the barrel of the Mountain West a couple of Years
Big12 guy 06/21/24 08:05 AM ET