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H
Hokiestock OP
Dec 08, 2023 at 09:40 AM ET
Cassell renovations
I know we have been told the project is on hold, but curious what happens to donations tagged for this project? Do they remain segregated and if so at what point does VT determine that the difference between increasing construction costs outweigh the rate of return on any deposits?

65 Replies

kingofcassell kingofcassell
I hope the exterior renovation goes through - Cassell needs it
I can live without the party decks on the interior, but the exterior and concourse needs a upgrade ASAP
VTHokie2000 VTHokie2000
If those are the only renovations done, then how much would that extend
Cassell's shelf life? At least I think at some point VT will have to consider whether it makes sense to continue renovating Cassell vs. building Cassell 2.0 somewhere on campus.
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RJHokie
That’s the elephant in the room.
The original renovation project costs significantly escalated during and after the pandemic.
kingofcassell kingofcassell
it's an interesting debate
cant beat the vintage feel of old arenas - there's not many left - but can also see where a modern arena would could help VT and the NRV (i.e. events/concerts) I was hoping they'd just renovate the exterior and concourses. I was not a fan of the party decks that the concept drawings had.
HokieAl HokieAl
Interesting discussion. My view is interior focus is needed most
For me, I don't care what the outside looks like. If I'm there, I'm spending all my time in my seat, getting food, or going to the bathroom. That's the fan experience and what needs to be the focus. But overall, yeah I wonder if it's just time to start fresh. My last visit to Tech this year, both Cassell and Lane just seemed old and outdated in a lot of ways. Yes they still function. But if money is going to be spent, then Cassell especially is probably better to demo and build new. With the requirement that it goes in the exact same spot on campus and within the athletic buildings footprint. And must use Hokie stone and must have some nod to the Cassell arch design somewhere for a nod to the past.
R
RJHokie
Demolition of Cassell would be quite costly plus there’s
probably asbestos imbedded in some of the building materials. U Va delayed razing U Hall for quite a while because of the demo costs and asbestos.
B
Brewing_Hokie
Nah just let a bunch of Hokies rig some explosives and blow it up 😂😜
R
RJHokie
Yeah, and while they are at it just give the “middle finger of
fellowship” to the DEQ and other folks concerned about airborne asbestos….😁.
B
Brewing_Hokie
Damn right! 😂
A
ancient alien 2018
Perhaps Goodyear or B F Goodrich would consider moving their Blimps
operations South and rent the building. Problem solved.
Femoyer Hokie Femoyer Hokie
Is this all we need? >>>>
I
I love VT!
WADR, Yuck.
IB4TECH IB4TECH
I prefer the Cassell as is opposed to that.
A
ancient alien 2018
Nice arena, except for those bleacher seats.
Femoyer Hokie Femoyer Hokie
Students and band.
A
ancient alien 2018
If student tickets are free, OK .If not, boooooooo!!
VTHokie2000 VTHokie2000
At least JMU was smart enough to design the new Convo so that the wall
could be removed and replaced with seats to complete the upper deck if the demand was ever there. I would hope that VT would approach the design of Cassell 2.0 and Lane 2.0 with that same vision even if the facility doesn't initially start out at its potential max capacity.
B
bghokie
A new Cassell and and parking garage in Lot 1, if I could snap my fingers
hokiepro hokiepro
The expansion of the concourses outward would held the fan experience
Quite a bit. For sold out games it’s nearly impossible to navigate the corridors at halftime. Having concourse/lobbies out toward tennis courts on one side and Beamer Way on the other could allow for additional/renovated restrooms and better concessions too. Only thing I’m jealous of UVA is the JPJ arena which is very nice especially the concourses
VTHokie2000 VTHokie2000
The problem with demolishing Cassell and build the new one in the exact
same spot is it will force VT to relocate all the sports that play in Cassell to another facility for 1-2 years. What impact will it have on the programs impacted by the decision? How much additional money would VT need to spend on lease(s)?
A
ancient alien 2018
Agree. IF a new facility is built, move it and let Cassell become Wrestling
home, or just shut it down.
B
bghokie
Spot on
R
RJHokie
Not only leases but additional travel, fan/student
attendance, recruiting, etc. for both basketball teams and volleyball.
HokieAl HokieAl
Yep that's the tricky part. easy for me to say "put it in the same spot"
but reality of running practices and matches for multiple sports is that they need a place to be. It's a tough scenario. But unfortunately there are not really any other great spots to put it on campus. At least nothing close to where it currently sits.
R
RJHokie
There was talk that a new facility would be
built on Chicken Hill.
VTHokie2000 VTHokie2000
Given that VT extended the runway, are there any FAA requirements regarding
the height of structures in the path of the runway? If so, then that could limit VT's options if it wishes to expand that way.
HokieAl HokieAl
How important is that airport? Here is my completely uninformed plan :)
At some point a hard decision will have to be made. My pure fantasy approach (and assuming all the money and regulatory issues can be solved) would be the following: remove the current airport use some land outside bburg/cburg to build a replacement airport then play a game of shuffle with multiple areas - rec fields move (replace with new Lane) - chicken hill keep? - remove parking services (replace with new rec fields) - old airport land (replace with parking services and whatever those other buildings are next to it) - tear down Lane (replace with new Cassell and new tennis center) - tear down Cassell (replace with new Athletics offices and team spaces) - tear down old tennis center - use the space to put in a new aquatic center for swim/dive (maybe over by old Lane/Cassell) - step 3...profit
H
HokieJack
How many billion $ would that cost?
A
ancient alien 2018
Replace Lane?? rotfl
VTHokie2000 VTHokie2000
Depending on the requirements to join the Big Ten or SEC, VT might have to
consider adding seats to the stadium to meet the new requirements. A SEZ-like structure in the north end zone may not be possible because the road that runs between the practice field and stadium is considered an access road for fire and safety. If the road has to stay for that reason, then that would limit VT's options for the north end zone. Given that the East Stands, West Stands, and SEZ were built at different times and were subject to different building codes, VT may find it is more costly to connect the structures now and bring everything up to today's building codes. Also, the fact that the 3 structures were built at different heights and not angled so they could easily join each other could add onto the cost because it likely would mean part of the structures would need to be torn down so they could be reshaped for the proper angle.
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ancient alien 2018
That's a $ 3 billion dollar cost in today's dollars. Can't see that unless
Bezos decides he loves VT!! A Lot!!!
VTHokie2000 VTHokie2000
You are right it doesn't make sense for VT to make that kind of investment
when Lane is still a perfectly functioning stadium. Lost in all the discussions is the fact that a NCAA committee, with representatives from all 3 division levels, is still meeting to discuss the re-org of the association. If the committee is truly looking to overhaul the system, then the decisions made should be on par with what were made back in 1970 when the NCAA announced the creation of 3 division levels and 1977 when the NCAA announced the creation of 2 subdivisions for DI football. FWIW some DI schools were legally fighting the decision to be placed in the DI-AA (now DI-FCS) subdivision all the way up to the mid to late 80s. Assuming the committee does a complete overhaul of the system, I would expect a similar type of fight because everyone won't be happy with all the decisions.
2
2hhoop3
That is a very, very......
unlikely requirement. Where did you get that idea?
VTHokie2000 VTHokie2000
Given that the NCAA is currently going through a re-org right now, it was
suggested as a potential change to make it more difficult (and selective) for schools to compete at the top level. Based on how things are shaking out that would mean at the P2 level.
2
2hhoop3
May have been .........
suggested as an out for the B10 and SEC schools to jettison some unwanted conference deadweight but, it is a laughable suggestion that it would ever pass or be a requirement for new conference members. Look at the current stadium sizes in both the B10 and SEC. That type requirement is unlikely to ever be added for a variety of reasons both fiscal and operationally related.
VTHokie2000 VTHokie2000
The suggestion came about because a fair number of schools thought 15,000
was too low of a minimum in order to compete in DI-FBS for football. Some schools thought the minimum should be raised to 50,000. Others thought it should be raised to 70,000 or 75,000. If the Big Ten and SEC are going to continue to compete in DI-FBS for football so they can have a home for their other sports at the DI level, then it is likely the minimum requirements issue could resurface again. Even if they decide to form a new division level, the issue should come again as they establish the bylaws for the new division level. WRT the existing Big Ten and SEC members, I would think they would be/could be grandfathered if the minimum requirements were to ever change. At least I can't think of a legal reason why the Big Ten or SEC couldn't do it. Plus, I think there are examples of where that has happened in sports for one reason or another.
2
2hhoop3
You can keep......
tilting at that windmill. Given attendance trends VT's stadium size would be adequate for any school participating at the P2 level and grandfathering original members in only adds a point of contention should there ever be a move to institute such a requirement.
VTHokie2000 VTHokie2000
If VT considers the airport to be important, then it may have to consider
using MSG as model and build multiple venues on top of each other with a good chunk of it underground.
HokieAl HokieAl
Here's a better pic that includes Cassell
T
TboneParkerVT
Parking deck on Lot 1 makes a lot of sense.
HokieAl HokieAl
and I've completely forgotten about the golf course
Probably the easiest solution of all is to move all the non-rev sports into a new complex where the golf course sits by the duck pond. Then take the existing track/softball/baseball/soccer space to build Lane 2.0 so that it stays on Beamer Way. And Cassell 2.0 either fits in there also or takes the spot of old Lane.
U
UpperQuad
The golf course is pretty hilly to put sports fields there.
Also, VT has a plan to build a big new quad of dorms on the golf course site. The new quad would also have a dining hall and student center.
VTHokie2000 VTHokie2000
You have presented reasonable proposals and followed a similar strategy as
what I suggested in another post. I'm not sure there is any other option for VT if it doesn't want any of the existing programs to suffer while the new facility is being built. One question that popped into my head which could bring the the site of the track into play is this, does the practice arena and basketball arena need to be next to each other? I ask because I thought VT had a specific reason for building it near Cassell and that same logic should probably apply to Cassell 2.0.
U
UpperQuad
The best location for a new Cassell is where the track is currently located
They could potentially redo the soccer stadium by moving the bleachers back and add a track around the outside of the field. VT's track currently doesn't have any seating to host outdoor meets, so it it is the easiest thing to move in the athletic complex.
VTHokie2000 VTHokie2000
Is there enough room for a new arena and practice facility there?
U
UpperQuad
Probably not both. But we just spent a bundle on the practice facility
about 10 years ago. Keep it where it is, which is close to the athletes' dorm.
VTHokie2000 VTHokie2000
Except there was a reason it was built next to Cassell and not somewhere
else. I would think whatever the logic was used there would also apply to Cassell 2.0 too.
R
RJHokie
In a best case scenario with “appropriate” funding, a new basketball
facility would be constructed which would include an attached practice facility similar to what we have now, and converting the current basketball practice facility to an athletic administration building. Cassell could continue to be used for wrestling and volleyball matches, the SPC, enhanced football administration and locker room, and other uses as deemed necessary and appropriate.
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RJHokie
The lower part of chicken Hill is probably
sufficiently lower than such requirements and far enough away from the airport. A better location would probably be down near the Vet School where the old Southgate entrance from 460 was located. A buddy of mine thinks a new arena would best be placed where the track is located and rebuild the track elsewhere.
Femoyer Hokie Femoyer Hokie
The current track location is the obvious answer.
HokieAl HokieAl
What if we tear down stadium woods? haha
crazy how much debate that got for what is relatively a small patch of trees.
R
RJHokie
Tree huggers won that battle for sure.
Administration not going to venture that route for a long time!
A
ancient alien 2018
We did and would again!!
VTHokie2000 VTHokie2000
Enjoy them while they last because they will be gone in approximately 50
billion years from now. The Sun will go through its red giant phase and either consume the Earth or turn the Earth into Mercury before it enters the final stage (white dwarf).
N
NokieHokie
More like 50 years.
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ancient alien 2018
LOL!! I love watching "How the Universe Works" where 500 million years is
the blink of an eye!!
VTHokie2000 VTHokie2000
I agree with you that location is an issue. However, VT has only itself to
blame because leadership over the years made the conscious decision to expand like a patchwork quilt instead of leaving space in between the facilities. Football would be faced with the same issue if it tried that with Lane Stadium. It is possible that VT maybe have to decide that only 1 facility could go in its current location. Although I probably would build Lane 2.0 somewhere else on campus so the football team could continue using Lane 1.0. Demo Lane 1.0 and possibly some other nearby facilities so Cassell 2.0 and Practicie Facility 2.0 could be built there. Then use the space where Cassell 1.0 and Practice Facility 1.0 for something else.
IB4TECH IB4TECH
I can't criticize how the facilities were built over the years.
U
UpperQuad
Lane won't be replaced for 50 years
VT spent a few hundred million dollars during the past 25 years expanding it and financed it with long-term bonds. It only gets used about 10 times each year. Spending a few hundred million to replace it would be a terrible return on investment. A new Cassell could at least also be used for concerts and other revenue-generating events. However, it's still tough to justify a $200M arena when that amount gets you a few dorms and academic buildings. Men's & women's basketball together break even. We're not selling out many games. The only way a new arena could be justified is with it producing additional revenues, like rentals for concerts and other outside events or rental fees for luxury boxes. What the university needs more than a stadium or arena is more parking, dorm room capacity, and on-campus dining capacity. It also needs a large general purpose events facility, because Squires and the Inn aren't big enough anymore for conferences, job fairs, and other large events.
VTHokie2000 VTHokie2000
Couldn't Lane be used to host other events too?
U
UpperQuad
For the past decade, graduation is the only other thing on that field
No HS tournaments, no concerts, nothing. There are dining facilities and a bar in Lane that get used year-round. However, the field and seats collect dust in the off-season, except for graduation.
VTHokie2000 VTHokie2000
But that was by VT's choice though. Which is my point that VT could decide
to get more use out of Lane than it is now.
U
UpperQuad
VT football barely lets anyone use the Beamer Barn, let alone Lane
Other parts of VT would LOVE to have use of those facilities. Job fairs, for example, could be done in the barn instead of cramped Squires, where they have to spread them out over multiple days due to lack of space.
VTHokie2000 VTHokie2000
It is too bad that VT doesn't allow the Beamer Barn to be used for other
functions. I am assuming there is a logical explanation, even if people may not agree with it, for the decision particularly since VT is okay with wrestling holding a match in the Moss Art Center.
R
RJHokie
They remain segregated until the project is scrapped
or changed significantly. Then they contact the donors to see if they will allow a reallocation of the funds to a different or amended project.