Average P4 president tenure has dipped below five years.
Many think it’s because the University Presidents didn’t respond fast enough to changes in athletics, especially football. The University of Oklahoma has seen 30% increase in applications since joining the SEC. Yes successful athletics particularly at Public Schools does have a large effect on academics.
29 Replies
10mo
It’s now easier to apply to a larger number of schools, and state flagship universities often are a good value proposition.
(In response to this post by Stech)
10mo
a big impact. Virginia Tech had an unusual jump when they joined the ACC.
(In response to this post by LeadingEdge)
10mo
"Value is a major draw. Over the past five years, OU has decreased the average annual cost of tuition and fees for Oklahoma residents by 28% and increased need-based aid by 38%, increasing the number of scholarships awarded to students by more than 20%."
OU has been big-time in athletics for a long time, whether they've been in the best conference or not. Getting cheaper when things are getting more expensive most everywhere else is likely driving that train way more than SEC.
And things have been on the upswing since before the SEC was a twinkle in OU's eye.
Link:
Enrollment on the rise
(In response to this post by Stech)
10mo
former blue dog democratic US senator, served as OU president for almost 25 years, my guess is a lot of OU's growth has to do with his stewardship. Don't want to get political but he's the kind of cat we need in public life.
(In response to this post by Pylons)
10mo
increases joining the ACC, and I believe the Big East too. I am not sure on Big East, but I had kids getting close to college age in 04, and it became much harder to get in due to the increased applications. I also had two nieces with ~4.0 averages who got turned down at VT, while their older sister with similar qualifications got in before they joined the ACC, applying for the same major.
(In response to this post by Pylons)
10mo
They don't know it.
It's a freaking sports talk show...of course they're going to hype sports.
And know next to nothing about admissions.
(In response to this post by Stech)
10mo
(In response to this post by Stech)
10mo
been on the rise for several years. Decreasing tuition over the past 5 years is going to have a lot more to do with it than joining the SEC.
** Edited by reestuart at 9/22/2025, 4:32:28 PM
(In response to this post by Stech)
10mo
it happened at Virginia Tech and other places too.
(In response to this post by reestuart)
10mo
He said the school had never experienced anything like it. What year did they drop the tuition and how much did they drop it?
(In response to this post by reestuart)
10mo
decreasing by quite a bit over the past 5 years.
(In response to this post by Stech)
10mo
I can't produce the article from a Virginia Tech article from over 20 years ago, but I remember reading it, and experiencing it with two nieces that did not get into Tech with similar qualifications to their sister.
I also asked the question above, do you think we are increasing the Athletic Budget to about $200 million dollars, mainly for football, so that we can just win more football games, or do you think the BOV and President believe they have proof that strong athletics, especially football will help get more/better applications and other academic benefits?
*I believe it was the AD, it was not Venables. I know who Venables is.
(In response to this post by reestuart)
10mo
If they want more applicants, they'll spend money doing that. That would be a complete waste dumping money into football hoping more people will want to go to school at VT.
(In response to this post by Stech)
10mo
the BOV has something about it. I also hope HokieAl does his usual great research on this topic.
(In response to this post by reestuart)
10mo
I posted 2 articles. Neither mention the ACC. The top 2 years for applications were 2001 and 2006 around the time of joining the ACC. Moving conferences surely won't hurt, but it's not going to give much of a bump at all.
(In response to this post by Stech)
10mo
2004-2005 academic year.
Looks like a pretty good jump in 2006, and the previous record around that time was in 2001. When VT was in the Big East and nowhere near the ACC. There was no big jump due to the ACC.
Here is another article talking about the record applicants. No mention at all of the ACC.
https://news.vt.edu/articles/2006/02/2006-80.html
** Edited by reestuart at 9/23/2025, 12:04:24 PM
Link:
applications
(In response to this post by reestuart)
10mo
Show Me.
If there's "plenty of evidence," it should be easy to cite some facts.
Maybe something more credible than the Finebaum show?
We likely did set an application record when we joined the ACC...just like has been happening almost every year for decades.
(In response to this post by Stech)
10mo
have risen significantly in the years since it joined the Atlantic Coast Conference (ACC) in 2004. While the ACC move likely helped raise the university's national profile, other factors have also contributed to the dramatic increase in applications.
PS. Me now, I have said multiple times it is not the only reason.
** Edited by Stech at 9/22/2025, 11:57:15 PM
(In response to this post by Pylons)
10mo
Conference membership is not near the top of the list for driving application number. Some generic AI response is hardly the "evidence" you referred to.
Back when we joined the ACC, I'd wager that more than half of applicants didn't even know VT was joining the ACC. It feels like folks on these boards fail to appreciate that there are tons and tons of people that couldn't care less about sports. Heck, a lot of students that go to football games don't really care about sports...they're there for the party.
If you think the SEC has had anywhere near the effect of decreasing tuition and increasing financial aid over the last 5 years, I honestly don't know what to say.
(In response to this post by Stech)
10mo
is more than just about having a good football team IMHO. Maybe @HokieAl will do some research, or maybe next week the BOV will talk about why they are increasing the budget by $50 million and growing. Since most of that money will go to football, I just don't buy they think that good athletics especially football, doesn't help get more/better student applications and raise the top of mind about Virginia Tech in the Academic world, especially for a public school that doesn't always have the donor base and connections of *private schools. However, I will let you be you on this, and I only ask you let me be me on this too. I have been married ~40 years, it may be the biggest thing I have done to make it last so long, when many can't get past 5-7 years. Just let us agree to disagree and let her be her on the subject, even if I think differently.
*I went to both a public and private school, talking about apples and oranges in approach, I am sure you know this because I believe you have taught at both,
(In response to this post by Pylons)
10mo
From what I've read, a large part of the reason that support is now going to be there is that the rector and a couple other board members are big football fans/supporters. The fact that football people want to support athletics doesn't exactly scream "sports are great for academics" to me...when less football-oriented boards seem to have been less supportive.
I also think you are seriously overvaluing the impact of application numbers on academics overall. Sure, it's nice to be able to be more selective and get better students, but there is so much more to building and maintaining a great academic institution. And we've had steadily increasing applications through the good and bad times.
(In response to this post by Stech)
10mo
become more competitive in certain sports. None at all.
(In response to this post by Stech)
10mo
the same thing doesn't make it true, it just establishes that you believe it. So I am moving on for a while until more information comes out, have a great day!
(In response to this post by reestuart)
10mo
You are disputing real articles put out by the actual schools. You claim there was a big bump when VT joined the ACC, and there wasn't.
** Edited by reestuart at 9/23/2025, 12:15:29 PM
(In response to this post by Stech)
10mo
(In response to this post by reestuart)